Bruno Senna vs. Pastor Maldonado

[peter_vod69]

I think part of the problem with Senna's lackluster qualifying efforts has been the closeness of the mid-pack teams this year. A couple of tenths of a second is often the difference between bowing out in Q2 or sneaking into the top ten. I'd say the lack of a practice session (when he has already acknowledged the difficulties he is having with the tyres) could easily account for this deficit.

 

[hornet_burnout]

I'd like to say that actually Pastor drove an excellent race this past weekend and showed some maturity in several aspects. On track and off.

He did not say 'I just lost my rear a bit' to excuse losing positions in the start. He admited he ran wide. He did not try to hold on to it too hard getting sideways or get it back at all costs (although he was not really in a position to do so, old(?) Pastor could have tried some crazy move).

I honestely think we saw the best Pastor yet this weekend. Not 'just' fast, but smart and waiting for the moment he could eventually improve on his race position and mend his admited mistake, but unfortunately the car failed.

I sincerely hope he keeps like that and if he does, results will show and then he won this 'contest'.

If in the other hand, 'old' Pastor comes out again in the next GP, then it's back to dead even IMO. Faster but crashing out frequently vs slower but more consistent and both getting almost the same amount of points. I'd bet on supporting the consistent and not so useless driver so that his consitency could show higher up in the result tables. But realistically there is no chance of that, even if Pastor fails again. Which I sincerely hope he doesn't.

 

[bzking23]

if Maldonado didnt win that race in Catulyuna i doubt anybody here would like him, he does what Alonso does, he takes more power out of the car than it actually has but he has a lot less control than Alonso. I wonder what Barrichello could have done if he stayed.

 

[Liquid]

I wonder what Barrichello could have done if he stayed.

Made them look a bit better in the Constructors'. But I doubt there would be significant improvement. Sure, Williams have a much better car than last year but that doesn't automatically mean that Rubinho would have done a job equal to or better than Maldonado but with more race finishes. Let's not forget that Senna is bringing in millions of pounds to the team as well as Maldonado. Without those extra few pennies, the package probably wouldn't be as mildly competitive as it is, even with a seasoned pro like Barrichello at the helm.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm amazed that some people are still claiming that Pastor's win in Spain was a fluke. Love him or hate him, he has some serious speed. Let's not forget that he didn't bottle it despite the presence of Fernando Alonso behind him. The simple fact of the matter is that Pastor is genuinely quick. Good drivers improve as they get older and his performance at the weekend was impressive.

I never said it was a fluke, just that he would not have won had Hamilton not been given a penalty.

 

[F1 fan]

I never said it was a fluke,

I never said you did.

just that he would not have won had Hamilton not been given a penalty.

We don't know that for sure. A lot of things could have gone wrong for Hamilton with or without Pastor's involvement. And the simple fact of the matter is that Hamilton was penalized for a breach of the rules that was enforced due to another similar incident he was involved in. Whether the blame lies with him or the team is irrelevant here. Rules are rules. If a car won a race and was then found to be illegal, would you be saying "X driver only won the race because Y was disqualified"?

 

[Liquid]

There's always reasons why a perceivd underdog probably shouldn't have won. Look at Belgium 1998; there is no way in hell Damon Hill would have won if Schumacher had kept his car on the straight and narrow and out of Coulthard's gearbox. Not that Coulthard was clever in slowing down on the racing line, of course. But it happened and it's one of the most famous races in F1 history. Herbert won at the Nuerburgring in 1999 thanks to the weather and reliability problems for those in front of him.

For Maldonado, he did well to keep himself in contention and thanks to some misfortune for Hamilton, he's won his first race. It's not like the FIA, FOM or Charlie Whiting are going to go to Maldonado and say, "Well we're taking back this trophy because you wouldn't have won if Hamilton didn't receive a penalty."

 

[Hun200kmh]

Luck is a train, you got to be at the station to catch it and that takes merit. And Maldonado was at the station, with merit.

In a way it is like Marussia being 10th now in the WCC. One can argue whatever about Caterham having an overall better season, but it is the "being there" when the opportunity arises that really matters. And Glock was there, driving that Marussia.

 

[Liquid]

In a way it is like Marussia being 10th now in the WCC. One can argue whatever about Caterham having an overall better season, but it is the "being there" when the opportunity arises that really matters. And Glock was there, driving that Marussia.

I'm with Famine on this one.

Which is a ridiculous situation.

Caterham:
27 starts
24 finishes (88.9%)
Average finish position (finishes only): 16.7
Average finish position (inc. retirements): 16.9

Marussia:
27 starts
23 finishes (85.2%)
Average finish position (finishes only): 17.5
Average finish position (inc. retirements): 18.0

HRT:
26 starts
19 finishes (73.1%)
Average finish position (finishes only): 19.7
Average finish position (inc. retirements): 20.4


To say Marussia are a better team because on one occasion, in a race dominated by crashes, safety cars, punctures and gearbox failures, they got a car home for a fluke, non-points-scoring twelfth place is ludicrous.

See hither.

 

[homeforsummer]

There's always reasons why a perceivd underdog probably shouldn't have won. Look at Belgium 1998; there is no way in hell Damon Hill would have won if Schumacher had kept his car on the straight and narrow and out of Coulthard's gearbox. Not that Coulthard was clever in slowing down on the racing line, of course. But it happened and it's one of the most famous races in F1 history. Herbert won at the Nuerburgring in 1999 thanks to the weather and reliability problems for those in front of him.

Or Panis at Monaco in 96. Equally, there are times when the perceived underdog should have won - Perez this year in Malaysia perhaps, or Hill at Hungary in 97 in the Arrows.

That said, I'd agree with those who say that Maldonado got his win this year on merit. He was quick enough, basically.

Plus, if you're out in front then there's nobody to hit.

 

[Liquid]

Or Panis at Monaco in 96.

Another race to forget for Jean Alesi.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I'm with Famine on this one.

Yes, I know that post that's exactly why I mentioned the Marussia case. And I also agree that we can't say Marussia is "better" than Caterham. But I don't agree that Marussia being 10th is a "ridiculous situation" as Famine put it. Caterham faltered when the chance came, and Marussia was there for the taking. That's how it works, kudos to Glock and Marussia.

 

[Famine]

But remember, they're classed as the best of the teams that haven't scored...

Currently Tim O'Glock is the best driver who hasn't scored. That's probably fair enough - he has a twelfth, one position nearer the points than anyone else has managed, along with a couple of fourteenths. Kovalainen's got a thirteenth and a pair of fourteenths. Petrov has a thirteenth and a fourteenth. Charles Pic hasn't managed anything higher than fifteenth... As far as driver championships go, those rankings make sense - the best three results for those drivers read 12, 14, 14 (average 13.3); 13, 14, 14 (average 13.6); 13, 14, 15 (average 14.0); 15, 15, 16 (average 15.3).

For teams, it doesn't. Those best results for the teams read 12, 14, 14, 15, 15, 16 (average 14.3); 13, 13, 14, 14, 14, 15 (average 13.8). That's part of the point of the FATC thread - if you're taking results of just one car, it's not a team championship. Marussia aren't the 10th place team because they have the 10th best car and the 10th best driver pairing. They're the 10th place team because Tim O'Glock got a good hand for one race and played it.

The Marussia is not a better car than the Caterham and they are not a better team than Caterham, but they're ranked that way because the teams' championship is flawed.

 

[avens]

I'd get rid of Frank.