Bruno Senna vs. Pastor Maldonado

  • Thread starter Thread starter Famine
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Famine
There's been a few of those though - that's a technical offence rather than a major driving offence.

Even so, I remember Takuma Sato disqualified from the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix for causing a collision with Jarno Trulli...
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Yuji Ide had his license taken off him entirely for poor driving standards in 2006.
 
Senna. No, seriously.

I think it's best for Williams to keep both drivers around and give them both at least another season to mature and gain some speed/consistency, and on the basis that Bottas more than likely wouldn't perform much better than either, if at all. Changing the driver lineup so often is not healthy for a team.

But if it were a situation where one of them had to be dropped, it would have to be Senna. It's easier to train a fast driver to be consistent, than to train a consistent driver to be fast. That, and Maldoando brings in quite a lot of money, which a team lacking in budget right now, such as Williams, needs to get back to the front of the grid.
 
Personally, I'd get rid of Maldonado. I realize he brings a lot of money in, but when you're wrecking cars pretty much every weekend, I can't see it not getting expensive fast. The speed is there, but I'd put him on the market and let him be some other team owner's headache.
 
I'd probably get rid of Maldanado, yeah he's quick.. but too much of a liability, going from what we've seen so-far from him this season.
 
Famine
Allen missed the entire 1997 season then?
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There is a difference between exclusions and race bans. An exclusion retroactively removes a driver from race results for an offence. A race ban prevents a driver from taking part in a future event.

I believe the last driver to receive a race ban was Michael Schumacher, back in 1994 (Ide doesn't count, his licence was revoked, not suspended). The last team to be banned was BAR-Honda, back in 2005.
 
prisonermonkeys
There is a difference between exclusions and race bans.
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Which would be fine if Allen made that distinction.

James Allen
Unlike the football model, F1’s decision to ban Grosjean for Monza is the first example since 1994 of the sport’s authorities standing a driver down for a race or throwing them out of an event completely as punishment for a major driving offence.
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The difference in name - "race ban", as opposed to "exclusion" - implies a difference. And Allen never mentioned the BAR-Honda incident at Imola, or Schumacher 1997's exclusion in his article, so I don't see how it is cause for confusion.
 
I don't see how there's a cause for inventing what he said.

He said Grosjean's ban is the first example since 1994 of the F1 authorities standing a driver down for a race or throwing them out of an event completely as a punishment for a major driving offence.

Was Schumacher thrown out of an event (and then several others) completely as a punishment for a major driving offence? Was it by the "F1 authorities"? Was it after 1994?

So either he's wrong in what he said because his memory is crap or he's wrong in what he said because his communication is crap. But he's wrong in what he said.
 
I think if Maldonado does leave Williams, he'll surely find another team. Like it or not, he's worth a lot of money. And if he leaves Williams, quite a few teams who could use the extra dough will take notice.

Well if axing Pastor is on the table, why not get rid of them both? Kovalainen/Sutil pairing?
 
astrosdude91
Well if axing Pastor is on the table, why not get rid of them both? Kovalainen/Sutil pairing?
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Sutil would be a glass act.

Maldonado will stay in F1 one way or another. As well as PDVSA money, his race win will count for something, irrespective of your opinion of him.
 
astrosdude91
I think if Maldonado does leave Williams, he'll surely find another team. Like it or not, he's worth a lot of money. And if he leaves Williams, quite a few teams who could use the extra dough will take notice.
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The teams that could use the extra money probably have a slower car than the Williams at the moment so perhaps losing Pastor would be a bad idea for Williams because not only would there car be slower but the car of a rival would be faster.
 
astrosdude91
I think if Maldonado does leave Williams, he'll surely find another team. Like it or not, he's worth a lot of money. And if he leaves Williams, quite a few teams who could use the extra dough will take notice.

Well if axing Pastor is on the table, why not get rid of them both? Kovalainen/Sutil pairing?
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I think the best possible Williams line-up would be Glock/Alguesuari paired with Bottas.
 
As a continuation of my earlier post, I'd send Maldonado to HRT. He gets time to develop as a driver in the back of the field, usually out of the way, and the team gets both a quick driver and a boatload of development cash.
 
TheBook
As a continuation of my earlier post, I'd send Maldonado to HRT. He gets time to develop as a driver in the back of the field, usually out of the way, and the team gets both a quick driver and a boatload of development cash.
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:lol:
 
Senna ftw 🤬. Again that's the best censoring I can do
 
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The mods won't like that...

I'd take Maldona-d'oh. He's reckless, but maybe he can be tamed (like others said) and if the sponsors pay for the damage, the team will be fine. If I didn't have to choose, I'd say Bottas and Rubens.
 
alexlam24
Again that's the best censoring I can do
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If you absolutely have to swear - and there isn't really any situaton where you need to - then you should type the word. The auto-censor system will hide the word(s) itself far better than you did.

However, the fact that you feel using such obscene language to refer to every other member of this forum is somehow appropriate speaks volumes as to your character. Do yourself a favour and take a good, hard look at the way you present yourself - because at this rate, your days are numbered.

ghskilla
Maldona-d'oh.
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I knew that would catch on.
 
The team lacks one experienced driver to balance the choice. The problem with both current drivers is their lack of experience, IMO.

Even without a win, Senna is just one point behind Maldonado, and has the benefit of preserving the equipment much more.

So, considerind the overall position in the championship, I'd keep Senna and hire a more experienced driver.
 
If I was the team manager and had no money consideration I would probably pick Kovalainen and umm Buemi since he's swiss and didnt do that bad I thought. Everyone mentioning Bottas but he didnt do anything except beeing fast in a situation where he had no pressure at all. He might be worst than Maldonado in race.
 
I think most of us suggest Bottas because he's highly rated from junior formulae, he's already contracted with the team and he's cheaper than getting someone more experienced. It could be worth the gamble if he turns out to be another Hulkenburg to match Maldonado - fast but reliable.

Not to mention Bottas is quite clearly lined up for a 2013 seat already anyway.

The best outright line-up would of course be 2 experienced, proven drivers. I guess some of us also like giving new drivers a chance with the hope that they might prove to be a gem rather than a dud.
 
Ardius
I think most of us suggest Bottas because he's highly rated from junior formulae, he's already contracted with the team and he's cheaper than getting someone more experienced. It could be worth the gamble if he turns out to be another Hulkenburg to match Maldonado - fast but reliable.

Not to mention Bottas is quite clearly lined up for a 2013 seat already anyway.

The best outright line-up would of course be 2 experienced, proven drivers. I guess some of us also like giving new drivers a chance with the hope that they might prove to be a gem rather than a dud.
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Two experienced drivers usually cost too much. Bottas will be a rookie as well, but he has to start from somewhere, and he too could benefit from a more experienced team mate.
 
i wouldnt get rid of either driver, i would have senna moved up to driver 1 because he is more consistant than maldonado, he hasnt gotten a point since his win in spain. i would get rid of him but i have a feeling that the williams this year is so good because of maldonado's money
 
To improve the car, the team must have the cars finish races continuously.
Senna is able to do this, albeit relatively slowly in comparison to the potential of the cars ability.
Maldonado has not shown that he drives for the team, in my view. His continual recklessness comes from an immaturity, that may or may not stay with him.
He has no place in the present F1 style, that relies on point finishes to retain and draw sponsors.
He is however a spectators delight, if he not taking out your favorite driver that is.:sly:

Ardius' choice of Alguesuari is something I agree with. He knows the tracks and is fast enough, as well as being able to bring the car home for valuable tech input and points. A driver that could push Senna rather than confuse him as I believe Maldonado does.
Maldonado creates a belief in Senna's mind,(in my opinion) that all he has to do is circulate and he will finish the season in front, therefore has ends up with a seat. Not what a team needs either.

Whatever Williams do, they must make a decision, to resign or look for other driver/s soon (6-8 weeks)
 
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zed300
A driver that could push Senna rather than confuse him as I believe Maldonado does.
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Okay, first of all, how does Maldonado "confuse" Senna? If Senna was as easily confused as you claim, then surely he would have been dropped by now.

Secondly, getting rid of Maldonado means getting rid of a vast revenue stream, which Williams cannot afford to do.
 
I believe if Maldonado was more consistent and could control his emotions within the car he would be higher up in the driver standings and also in other drivers respect books. I mean yes everyone has a few mistakes per year, even the best of the best do, but Maldonado has had more accidents/penalties caused by himself and then tried to blame other drivers for the cause, now come on... the F.I.A aren't that stupid. Even if he just admitted it was his fault and took the penalty instead of trying to blame others I'm sure he would be respected more by drivers like Hamilton, Perez and whoever else he has had 'issues' with this year.

Senna on the other hand isn't like his Uncle used to be, for example he is often slower in qualifying than Maldonado and sometimes not terribly fast in the race, but his consistency of lap times and races finished are really good. He deserves to be in a Mid to Front paced car, while Maldonado should be in a slower car or in GP2 for another year or two like Grosjean did a few years back.

Not forgetting that Maldonado give Williams another win early this year after a terrible year for the team last year, but since then nothing much has really happened apart from a few good qualifying laps and some point finishes.

So answering the question from the OP, I'd say Senna stay's and Maldonado goes.

And prisonermonkeys, the revenue stream is important for teams especially ones like Williams, it is the same effect if Perez leaves Sauber though... except they have no choice whether he goes to another team or not. But Pastor is giving Williams a bad reputation of DNF's, incidents and Penalties so surely they'll make a choice soon enough whether he goes or not, but I think he will especially as Williams is still one of the richest teams left in Formula 1 with a great track record.
 
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prisonermonkeys
Okay, first of all, how does Maldonado "confuse" Senna? If Senna was as easily confused as you claim, then surely he would have been dropped by now.

Secondly, getting rid of Maldonado means getting rid of a vast revenue stream, which Williams cannot afford to do.
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Don't mince words mate, I never said easily.

Pastor is fast but loose, thus putting Bruno in a state of mind of "I can't go any faster but I should be able to beat him." Confusion is probably not quite the right word, but he is unsure of himself and it shows in his varied grid positions.
Confusion is a state of mind, not an example of ability.
This is just what I see, not necessarily a fact.

If Williams run the car to its potential they will score points, then funds from sponsors and then in turn more experienced drivers will look closer at them. Money isn't all that wins championships, it does help though.
 
zed300
Confusion is a state of mind, not an example of ability.
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In this case, it is. If, as you say, Senna sees Maldonado's results and feels a need to match them, only to over-extend himself and make a mess of it, that shows a lack of ability. Over-driving the car will get you nowhere.
 
TheBook
As a continuation of my earlier post, I'd send Maldonado to HRT. He gets time to develop as a driver in the back of the field, usually out of the way, and the team gets both a quick driver and a boatload of development cash.
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And what happens when it comes time for the frontrunners to lap him? :scared:

SKIDMARX
Maldonado should be in a slower car or in GP2 for another year or two like Grosjean did a few years back.
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As GP2 champions, neither Pastor nor Grosjean may return to the sport.
 
No need to be so harsh on Senna...

After all, he has still managed to get into F1(even though he isn't doing too well, sadly), as compared to us lowly mortals hanging around in an Internet forum, with not much credible (or maybe even no) achievements in any form of international Motorsport.

We aren't in a good position to judge any of these drivers' capabilities to be honest...
 

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