<- BTCC-6 -> Season Complete - skengdigi is the first double Champion!

[sibbystiggy]

Would the Alfa work better if it was forced to run aero?

No I think alfa runs better without aero, it turns in more fluidity into corners and it gives it a fair advantage out of corners and on the straights,

 

[rolo912011]

I meant in terms of slowing it into the pack. Could have said it better.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

i tried testing the infiniti @ 1350 before everyone left, it gave it a little extra top end but made it more manageable out of the bends meaning it now has a better chance of keeping up with the pack on the straights (before it didn't matter how good the pull out the corner or how many cars i was drafting i was still being left behind).

If you want to do a few straight line test i will be happy to help to make sure we wont be leaving everyone behind thought my opinion would be that it should just bring us into the race rather than leaving us trailing behind.

 

[Ian_83]

OK let's bring the Dodge down to 1200 and Mazda 1170 for the time being (extra 10 to account for the gearing).

Would the Alfa work better if it was forced to run aero?

The RWD cars handle much better than the Alfa already, so adding aero to the Alfa will harm it even more through the bends. Yes it would slow it on the straights, but give it a mildly twisty track and the BMW will leave it standing through every bend. I tried Cape Ring south with Red the other day, his BMW was about half a second a lap quicker and my quickest lap was somewhat a fluke.

The G35 at 1350 should be okay. I'd be surprised if that alone didn't even things out and it's a 100kg drop from its starting weight.

Personally I'm not very good with RWD cars, but if someone can tune a G35 at 1350kg, I'll have a test with them against my Alfa so that we can see whether it's much closer. If it's much closer, can the tune used on the G35 be given to those that are planning to use it....at least then they will have what should be a competitive car and then any difference will be down to driver skill.

My only other thought is that perhaps the tracks this season are all a little too fast and therefore suited to the speedier FWD cars. They are fantastic tracks, but maybe one or two could be substituted to something more suited to a RWD car?

All these changes are starting to get confusing now.

i tried testing the infiniti @ 1350 before everyone left, it gave it a little extra top end but made it more manageable out of the bends meaning it now has a better chance of keeping up with the pack on the straights (before it didn't matter how good the pull out the corner or how many cars i was drafting i was still being left behind).

If you want to do a few straight line test i will be happy to help to make sure we wont be leaving everyone behind thought my opinion would be that it should just bring us into the race rather than leaving us trailing behind.

The RWD cars were always typically slower in a straight line (more ballast) as they tend to be better in the turns.

 

[ROB 256R]

Just the nature of racing means that the power cars, in this case the FFs, generally fare better in the races because it's extremely rare that they're held up by an FR.

Wheras the FRs are always getting held up by FFs in the corners. I know they get to draft in return but you can spend countless laps tucked up behind an FF waiting for an opportunity to pass. And even then you quite often lose it again en route to the next corner.

On single lap pace the FRs almost need to be a fraction quicker to account for their slight disadvantage during the races.

I have sent rolo some updated testing info. There may or may not be some tiny changes. I know it's a bit of messing all this spec changing but it'll be worth it if it means we get them just right. 👍

 

[rolo912011]

I apologise Ian but there may be one or two other small changes to the field over the weekend. Hopefully that will then settle it.

 

[Ian_83]

Just the nature of racing means that the power cars, in this case the FFs, generally fare better in the races because it's extremely rare that they're held up by an FR.

Wheras the FRs are always getting held up by FFs in the corners. I know they get to draft in return but you can spend countless laps tucked up behind an FF waiting for an opportunity to pass. And even then you quite often lose it again en route to the next corner.

On single lap pace the FRs almost need to be a fraction quicker to account for their slight disadvantage during the races.

I have sent rolo some updated testing info. There may or may not be some tiny changes. I know it's a bit of messing all this spec changing but it'll be worth it if it means we get them just right. 👍

Good on ya. 👍

I agree, the balance is imortant and I understand what you're saying about the difficult overtaking an FF whilst driving an FR. On the other hand, the FR is usually quicker off the starting blocks and if it gets into the lead an FF can fall behind through the corners, lose the draft and then just drop back lap after lap. That's assuming that there isn't a huge long straight of course.

I'm starting to wish that I hadn't tuned the Alfa quite so well this early on in the season. It really can't get any quicker than it is already, it's tuned to within an inch of its life, the other cars may still have room to improve.

I apologise Ian but there may be one or two other small changes to the field over the weekend. Hopefully that will then settle it.

No need to apologise. I want close racing too.

As I said above, I regret tuning the Alfa pre-season now.

 

[ROB 256R]

Don't worry. The Alfa is a proven race winner. Weezy was up the sharp end in it for most of last season. You have to remember Nurb/d is more or less a 50/50 track with maybe a slight bias towards handling. So if the Alfas are mostly at the front there they will have nothing to worry about at the power circuits.

 

[rolo912011]

Provisional Car List, Rules & Regulations:​

​

​

​

Maximum 4 entries per manufacturer!​

​

​

(including reserves)​

​

BMW

• 330i '05 (305 BHP, 1400KG)

Ford <<<<Unavailable>>>>

• Focus ST '06/ST170 '03 (305 BHP, 1200KG)

Alfa Romeo

• GT 3.2 V6 24V '04 (305 BHP, 1200KG)

/

Nissan / Infiniti

• Skyline Coupe 350GT '03 / G35 Coupe '03 (305 BHP, 1350KG)

Mazda

• Axela 23S '03 (305 BHP, 1170KG)

Dodge

• SRT4 '03 (305 BHP, 1200KG)

Chrysler

• Crossfire '04 (305 BHP, 1450KG)

Updated car information, but as I say, there may be another couple of changes over the weekend.

 

[rolo912011]

And, as I post that, skeng takes the last Ford. Ford now full. Alfa back to 1 space open.

 

[ROB 256R]

We definitely back up to 1450 on the crossfire?

 

[rolo912011]

We definitely back up to 1450 on the crossfire?

Not 100% sure tbh. Is 1400 too quick or not?

 

[canyondrifter]

wow what a debate over weights and aero...all I can say is like Ian said we have tuned our cars within an inch of perfection for our style of driving...we both use similar settings that are right on the limit of the cars ability...the only thing I can say is that a rear wing on a front wheel drive car is pointless as it slows it down along the straights and disrupts the balance in the bends making it a double wammy in the penalty dept...im happy enough to accept a weight increase but the ford is just as fast...as is that mazda that ran in race 2...so as long as the weights are equally spread across the cars im up for some closer racing

 

[ROB 256R]

If the g35 is getting 1350 I think the crossfire needs 1400.

 

[rolo912011]

If the g35 is getting 1350 I think the crossfire needs 1400.

Except the G35 needs to be getting 1380, so you were telling me

 

[ROB 256R]

Except the G35 needs to be getting 1380, so you were telling me

I was but I figured you must not have thought the same. I'm just going off what the spec sheet says. I'll just leave you to sort it then. 👍

 

[azidahaka]

I consider the Alfa and focus each as fast as another.

Next season let&rsquo;s try to get a success ballast rule. I think we cant Balance cars more than this, so kudos to rolo and all the others who tested!

on the other hand, anyone can suggest me a way to improve gearing? the usual ways do not seem to work well

 

[rolo912011]

I was but I figured you must not have thought the same. I'm just going off what the spec sheet says. I'll just leave you to sort it then. 👍

I assumed from your PM that you weren't quite ready to commit. But if you were then I'll make that change.

1380 it is.

 

[ROB 256R]

I dunno. I'm only trying to help. Bit disappointed more people didn't test different cars last night. Rather than just sticking to their own it would have helped get a better understanding of what if anything needs changing.

 

[canyondrifter]

erm I like the idea of success ballast but that would require poor old rolo to make a note of exactly who has what and adjust the weight limit accordingly every race making it a right faf to get things rolling along...good intentions but I fear it would quickly become too difficult to organise without arguments..
shame gt5 doesn't have it as an option to apply in game

 

[rolo912011]

erm I like the idea of success ballast but that would require poor old rolo to make a note of exactly who has what and adjust the weight limit accordingly every race making it a right faf to get things rolling along...good intentions but I fear it would quickly become too difficult to organise without arguments..
shame gt5 doesn't have it as an option to apply in game

Essentially why I don't do it.

 

[Ian_83]

Sorry, I was guilty of sticking to my own car, primarily because I haven't tuned the others properly. It wouldn't be a fair comparison to drive a fully tuned and perfected Alfa and then jump into a Crossfire which I've barely driven and haven't spent anytime setting up. I'd clearly be much quicker in the Alfa and that would distort the facts more than ever. Next season I'll try to aquire all cars and tune them equally.

 

[canyondrifter]

Sorry, I was Sorry, I was guilty of sticking to my own car, primarily because I haven't tuned the others properly. It wouldn't be a fair comparison to drive a fully tuned and perfected Alfa and then jump into a Crossfire which I've barely driven and haven't spent anytime setting up. I'd clearly be much quicker in the Alfa and that would distort the facts more than ever. Next season I'll try to aquire all cars and tune them equally.

yeah I am guilty as charged as well and I too will do the same...

at least we did help to set the bench mark...we were fairly consistant in our lap times...so from that point of view we did kinda help out

 

[SkengD]

This is looking to be the best season ever

 

[paulmac2k9]

I doubt anyone will use the mazda anyway

Don't say that yet, I have an nact for picking cars no else can get pace from .

 

[SkengD]

Don't say that yet, I have an nact for picking cars no else can get pace from .

At 1170kg i thought of using it myself

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Hi guys i am looking at the line up and thinking there is only 2 BMW's being used at the moment and myself and DJ would prefer to use these if poss as it is a better car than the infiniti (even when infiniti at 1350) I'm sure there is something in the setup of our infiniti that we just cant click but i know my BMW at least is a much better car.

 

[rolo912011]

Hi guys i am looking at the line up and thinking there is only 2 BMW's being used at the moment and myself and DJ would prefer to use these if poss as it is a better car than the infiniti (even when infiniti at 1350) I'm sure there is something in the setup of our infiniti that we just cant click but i know my BMW at least is a much better car.

OK I'll make that change. BMW now full.

 

[Ian_83]

Eeek, BMW is full. I can't recall seeing anyone use the BMW. That said, all I could see yesterday was Rolo's rear bumper which was keeping me pretty occupied to say the least. That Ford took some chasing down, thank god that I had fresher tyres at the end of the race.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Thanks Rolo I'm sure the BMW will give us a better chance in the races although i think all you guys are a little quicker than myself and DJ so we will still have a lot of work to do to be winning but at least with a better car we should be able to race with you guys. 👍