<- BTCC-6 -> Season Complete - skengdigi is the first double Champion!

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Doesn't this sort of close the case?

No just proves both are as slow on the straight.

Ok, well at least you know mine is just as slow down the straights. Anyway, I was watching the replay of Suzuka before and I noticed;

yours are dj's tachometers are only marked to 9,000rpm, shift light @ 7,000 and rev cut @ 7,750

mine (BMW) is marked to 12,000rpm, shift light @ 7,500 and rev cut @ 8,250

I know I have stage 3 engine tuning so I assume you two don't? Any specific reason why not because I don't think that will be doing you any favours.

Also, without sounding rude, you didn't really drive a very good race at Suzuka, you made a lot of small mistakes clipping grass and getting sideways, and a couple of big ones including a spin. You were up in a relative 5th before that but ended up dropping to 11th.

Hmm that's interesting

Maybe you are right, will have to check tomorrow now though but don't see why I would not have done all engine (maybe I just missed it somehow ) but still both pull the same.

Agreed I didn't drive a great race, 1st 4 laps were my best but then because I could see that I wasn't making enough time through the bends to anywhere near account for the difference in straight line speed so started driving too hard. Would have been OK if at least when I was with the other cars and in a slip on the straight's I could stay in the slip instead still be going slower than the car in front that has no slip. I don't want to be going so fast I pass them in the next turn as that would be unfair on others but at least with a slip end the straight the same distance behind that I started it.

 

[rolo912011]

No just proves both are as slow on the straight.

If the acceleration is the same, it kinda implies the straight line performance of yours and his car is the same (or at least its engine power behaviour is), so how can it be that Rob can do high 16s but you're doing 18s?

Do you use auto or manual transmission, DS3 or wheel?

Even if your engine tune isn't the same, I'd be surprised if the difference is 1.5-2 seconds per lap. Especially at somewhere like Suzuka. At Monza, for example, going up one stage in engine tuning could easily grab a second a lap, perhaps more. But I highly doubt it would make such a difference at Suzuka.

 

[Scaniabebe]

Click HERE to see the action from Suzuka!

 

[sibbystiggy]

Nice photo collection Scaniabebe

 

[Ian_83]

Great pics Scaniabebe and a great idea. 👍 Did you get any from the other races?
______

I had a practice on Suzuka earlier using the BMW. I'm lapping in the 18's which is slower than the Alfa, but I've done 100+ laps of Suzuka in the Alfa, tuned it to the track and being FF the driving lines/style is totally different to that of the BMW. I'm honestly not the best person to test an FR on SS-tyres. I'd also like to make it clear that I'm using a DS3 and manual transmission.

A couple of points I did notice.....

1) The BMW brakes are outstanding compared to the Alfa. I found myself over-braking in the BMW because of the better stopping power.
2) Grip levels of the BMW are much greater. From the entry point, through the apex and out of the exit, the BMW was much better.
3) Speed - This is the big debate (for some reason). Yes, the Alfa was faster on the straight. In the Alfa, I could hit 140mph between the Spoon curve and the 130R. In the BMW I was doing 136mph, although I could possibly get a little more if I could perfect the Spoon exit. Sadly my FR skills let me down a little here, however I was surprised with the BMW's pace, after reading posts on here I had expected it to be much slower.
4) Initial traction off the start line was better in the BMW. Hardly surpirising really and I think that with more time spent on the gearing it would fly off the line. With my current gearing I'm bogging down slightly in 1st gear but that's fixable.

In conclusion, I do preffer my Alfa. This is primarily because I'm a pretty good FF driver and not so good at FR. Secondly, the Alfa has been tuned well, and then tuned some more, until I feel that it's close to perfect. I think that Red_Leader would probably choose his BMW over an Alfa for exactly the same reason........time in the driving seat, learning the car and acheiving a handling balance is critical to all the cars taking part this season and will potentially lead you to success. 👍

I'll try to learn the BMW a little more and improve. However, I need to be very careful as I'm racing an FF which is totally different to drive to an FR, I don't want to ruin the hard work put into the Alfa by adjusting my driving style at this stage of the season. If anyone can give me some pointers to tuning the BMW I'd be grateful, I'm not asking for an exact tune, just a rough idea of where I should be heading.

Cheers,
Ian.

 

[SkengD]

I think the bmw is a car you have to be patient with and not over drive it , if you hit the sweet spot its awesome .

The brakes are top class as you said , they can brake way later than any ff even the mighty honda

 

[Ian_83]

Yep, I totally agree with you on that. I've not found the sweet spot....yet and perhaps I never will, but I can feel the potential it has and as I have already said, the braking is really good.

If I actually stopped over-braking in the BM my lap times would certainly drop. In turn 1 I slow down far too much, I need to be much later on the brakes in the BMW and I don't need to brake for as long to lose the speed. I've ploughed into turn 1 and braked as late as I dare, just to realise that I'm doing 10mph less than I should be through the corner. Doh!

I'm just far better with an understeering front wheel drive box. Some people are useless with FF and swear that FR is the only way to go. It's whatever suits your driving style I guess.

 

[paulmac2k9]

I'm just far better with an oversteering front wheel drive box.

They don't understeer... Look at BTCC today.. Tail-wagging galore, also my cars always oversteer more than understeer .

 

[Ian_83]

Mine start out with understeer, but I dial it out as much as possible.

The BTCC was scrappy today. I didn't expect to see Plato rolling it on race 3. Unlucky weekend for him.

 

[Scaniabebe]

It was a fairly unlucky weekend for MG, to be honest. The Hondas just were not as fast down the straights, the Insignias just powered away (bit like what we found in BTCC last Season)...

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Do you use auto or manual transmission, DS3 or wheel?

Even if your engine tune isn't the same, I'd be surprised if the difference is 1.5-2 seconds per lap. Especially at somewhere like Suzuka. At Monza, for example, going up one stage in engine tuning could easily grab a second a lap, perhaps more. But I highly doubt it would make such a difference at Suzuka.

I use manual transmission and have the Logitech driving force pro wheel.

I had a practice on Suzuka earlier using the BMW. I'm lapping in the 18's which is slower than the Alfa, but I've done 100+ laps of Suzuka in the Alfa, tuned it to the track and being FF the driving lines/style is totally different to that of the BMW. I'm honestly not the best person to test an FR on SS-tyres. I'd also like to make it clear that I'm using a DS3 and manual transmission.

A couple of points I did notice.....

1) The BMW brakes are outstanding compared to the Alfa. I found myself over-braking in the BMW because of the better stopping power.
2) Grip levels of the BMW are much greater. From the entry point, through the apex and out of the exit, the BMW was much better.
3) Speed - This is the big debate (for some reason). Yes, the Alfa was faster on the straight. In the Alfa, I could hit 140mph between the Spoon curve and the 130R. In the BMW I was doing 136mph, although I could possibly get a little more if I could perfect the Spoon exit. Sadly my FR skills let me down a little here, however I was surprised with the BMW's pace, after reading posts on here I had expected it to be much slower.
4) Initial traction off the start line was better in the BMW. Hardly surpirising really and I think that with more time spent on the gearing it would fly off the line. With my current gearing I'm bogging down slightly in 1st gear but that's fixable.

In conclusion, I do preffer my Alfa. This is primarily because I'm a pretty good FF driver and not so good at FR. Secondly, the Alfa has been tuned well, and then tuned some more, until I feel that it's close to perfect. I think that Red_Leader would probably choose his BMW over an Alfa for exactly the same reason........time in the driving seat, learning the car and acheiving a handling balance is critical to all the cars taking part this season and will potentially lead you to success. 👍

Yes the brakes are so much better than the FF cars and I was always braking later into T1 and gaining all my time in sector 1 and able to make up some of the difference in top end but S2&3 have too much straight lines and all the time I could collect in S1 was gone by the end of S2 and by the end of S3 the FF had gained even more meaning by the time we got back to S1 the car in front was even further away

I have agreed that I haven't yet hit the perfect sweet spot and there is a little more time to be had in S1 but I felt I was close enough to the sweet spot to be considered competitive and only a few 10's off perfect in S1 (going on my best laps before losing all hope from spinning again and again until I come out the pits and straight off in T1 not concentrating)

I have been trying to make the same point time and time again and it is being looked over and people seem to think that I want to be able to blast past everyone on the straight but this is not the case at all.

For the 1st few laps I was with the leading pack and always dropped further back on the straights (with or without slip stream). Without slip stream I would expect to have a lower top speed (penalty for better cornering speed) but with slip I fell I should at least stay there for the whole straight.

yours are dj's tachometers are only marked to 9,000rpm, shift light @ 7,000 and rev cut @ 7,750

mine (BMW) is marked to 12,000rpm, shift light @ 7,500 and rev cut @ 8,250

I know I have stage 3 engine tuning so I assume you two don't? Any specific reason why not because I don't think that will be doing you any favours.

I have had a check on the parts on our BMW and we do have stage 3 engine

 

[ROB 256R]

I have had a check on the parts on our BMW and we do have stage 3 engine

I dunno then. Maybe in replay mode all the dials are standardised. Still looked like your rev limit was 7,750 though. Weird?!? But if you say you have stg.3 then I believe you. You have the ECU too? I think that raises the rev limit.

Mine basically has everything installed, including the rigidity improvement. Only slight variation is that I have the sports exhaust instead of the titanium race exhaust; it gives an extra 300rpm worth of peak power ... and it sounds better

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

I dunno then. Maybe in replay mode all the dials are standardised. Still looked like your rev limit was 7,750 though. Weird?!? But if you say you have stg.3 then I believe you. You have the ECU too? I think that raises the rev limit.

Mine basically has everything installed, including the rigidity improvement. Only slight variation is that I have the sports exhaust instead of the titanium race exhaust; it gives an extra 300rpm worth of peak power ... and it sounds better

I don't think all dials are standard in replay but when I get a chance I am going to review all the parts on both cars to ensure I have it right

still doesn't explain the difference in straight line speed between us in the same car (I.E. your BMW)

 

[Gedi69]

I don't think all dials are standard in replay but when I get a chance I am going to review all the parts on both cars to ensure I have it right

still doesn't explain the difference in straight line speed between us in the same car (I.E. your BMW)

maybe its your gearing that isnt the same 💡

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

maybe its your gearing that isnt the same 💡

Very similar in the settings sheet and dragged raced the 2 together and both pulled the same through the gears and ended at the same top speed

 

[Ian_83]

Very similar in the settings sheet and dragged raced the 2 together and both pulled the same through the gears and ended at the same top speed

Can you put your car available to loan when you're not using it? Then we can have a look and see whether there is a problem.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

I will put the car up for loan when I can get on, will probably be tomorrow during the day some point but I will need it again for the test tomorrow evening 👍

 

[ROB 256R]

I also noticed from the Suzuka replay that both your exhausts sounded very quiet. They had that 'airy' standard exhaust tone to them, not the least bit raspy like the sport/semi-race/race exhausts. And I just checked a replay of my own BMW and the tacho matches what I see when I'm driving. So I don't know why yours is different and has a lower rev limit when you say you have stg.3 engine tuning. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[SkengD]

I also noticed from the Suzuka replay that both your exhausts sounded very quiet. They had that 'airy' standard exhaust tone to them, not the least bit raspy like the sport/semi-race/race exhausts. And I just checked a replay of my own BMW and the tacho matches what I see when I'm driving. So I don't know why yours is different and has a lower rev limit when you say you have stg.3 engine tuning. It just doesn't make sense.

He is missing some kind of racing part

 

[Ian_83]

^^^ Something is wrong I noticed the quiet exhaust too.

 

[ROB 256R]

He is missing some kind of racing part

You would think so but he says not. But it is starting to get borderline suspicious with all these differences.

Either that or I have inadvertantly glitch-crafted some kind of 330i/M3 hybrid

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

You are probably right, we have some parts missing, I will check tomorrow to be sure but it's not making any difference in straight line speed as mine has the same as Rob's

 

[canyondrifter]

I dunno...I spent just a few hours on a lazy sunday afternoon tuning and running that BMW and started out hitting 2:20...quickly dropped that to a 2:18 then after a brain fart I managed to get into the 2:17's...all in like 2 hrs...yes its was a little slower down the straights but damn that thing has some grip under braking and the cornering is great too...
but like ian I too like and prefer my alfa...oh and as for Monza I did tun it there too and its only 5 mph off my alfas top speed so I am sure that with slipstream our alfas wont be pulling away very quickly

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

2.18's is all I can get from it at Suzuka, can I ask what your brain fart was? PM me if you would rather not tell everyone

OK so I was missing ECU, Intake and Exhaust. This is probably because the car would have bees setup for PP before ever thinking of competing in BTCC (for PP gives more BHP per PP) I have set this right and am now getting a much better torque line so should make some difference but having drag raced it against Robs I'm still unsure of how much difference it will make. I am now sharing the car for all to test.

What time are we all meeting tonight?

 

[SkengD]

Your car should be faster now , no doubt about it .

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

I know BHP for show Torque for go so you would think it will be faster but then why did I have a dead heat against Dj in A drag race when I was in Rob's car from last year and Dj in ours

 

[SkengD]

You should beat robs car now , and the torque wont really show up in a drag race all the time

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Well after a few test runs on SSRX speed test I find myself wondering why I didn't check the parts on my car properly before going on a rant and making myself look like a 🤬

Test results (with pad not my wheel (couldn't be bothered to set up for a couple of straight line runs))
Old spec 0-60 4.7, 0-100 11.4, 1/4mile 13.3, -mile 33.6
New spec 0-60 4.6, 0-100 10.9, 1/4 mile 13.1, -mile 33.0
Also tested Rob's car but wont post the results without Rob's permission as it may be info he doesn't want to share.

Isn't it amazing how much difference a few parts can make

 

[ROB 256R]

Well after a few test runs on SSRX speed test I find myself wondering why I didn't check the parts on my car properly before going on a rant and making myself look like a 🤬

Test results (with pad not my wheel (couldn't be bothered to set up for a couple of straight line runs))
Old spec 0-60 4.7, 0-100 11.4, 1/4mile 13.3, -mile 33.6
New spec 0-60 4.6, 0-100 10.9, 1/4 mile 13.1, -mile 33.0
Also tested Rob's car but wont post the results without Rob's permission as it may be info he doesn't want to share.

Isn't it amazing how much difference a few parts can make

Post it. I don't mind. I've already shared my setup with every man and his dog. That ECU will have gained you the extra 500rpm you were missing. You won't notice that much of a difference in a drag race because apart from the launch it's hp that matters for that, but the extra torque will definitely allow you to get off the corners better and when going from part throttle to full throttle.

Mystery solved!

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Post it. I don't mind. I've already shared my setup with every man and his dog. That ECU will have gained you the extra 500rpm you were missing. You won't notice that much of a difference in a drag race because apart from the launch it's hp that matters for that, but the extra torque will definitely allow you to get off the corners better and when going from part throttle to full throttle.

Mystery solved!

OK so yours done:
0-60 4.5, 0-100 10.8, 1/4mile 13.0, 0-mile 33.0

So not far off my car with new spec but you have a slightly better 1st gear pull off.

But yes I agree mystery solved I would think and hope.