Bugatti Veyron tuning glitch?

NixxxoN · Dec 23, 2013

I was testing top speeds of the most powerful cars on different suspension setups, and then I got my hands on the '13 Veyron...

Well first of all I got to say the top speeds look a bit unrealistic (about 460 km/h stock, and about 530 km/h WITHOUT Nitro)
The funny thing is, if you lower the suspension to the maximum, and you try getting to the top speed, the steering wheel stops working... completely... doesn't steer a single bit until you lift off the gas pedal and brake... Lol. Is it actually possible or just a glitch?
This doesn't happen when you have normal suspension or not lowered suspension.

HuskyGT · Dec 23, 2013

There are a lot of cars that show this problem of reaching top speeds higher than normal. Today I was doing 230km/h at the Spa uphill straight (after Eau Rouge) in my 290HP Scirocco. That's kind of high considering I can reach about 235km/h with my 400HP BMW Z8. There is no way a four cylinder FF hatchback can reach that speed uphill.

It could be that they are modeling the aerodynamics, since the Z8 has no roof and that could affect it, but not this much. We are talking about 120HP more with a V8 that's full of torque.

As for the Veyron, I haven't tested it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it went faster than normal.

eSZee · Dec 23, 2013

The max low suspensions makes sense, I guess. The car is basically so low that the limited air under the car and the high downforce would make steering at 280mph+ almost nonexistent. It's being pushed down too hard for the steering. However, it DOESN'T STOP WORKING COMPLETELY as OP states. That is false. If you hold either direction the car will eventually start moving over.
That's how I got to 350mph a week ago, though. At even 10mm higher suspension, I wasn't able to get back to 350mph.

NixxxoN · Dec 23, 2013

HuskyGT
There are a lot of cars that show this problem of reaching top speeds higher than normal. Today I was doing 230km/h at the Spa uphill straight (after Eau Rouge) in my 290HP Scirocco. That's kind of high considering I can reach about 235km/h with my 400HP BMW Z8. There is no way a four cylinder FF hatchback can reach that speed uphill.

It could be that they are modeling the aerodynamics, since the Z8 has no roof and that could affect it, but not this much. We are talking about 120HP more with a V8 that's full of torque.

As for the Veyron, I haven't tested it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it went faster than normal.

Hum, I'm pretty sure that an almost 300 HP car can reach 235 and a Z8 can reach 250 km/h without problems. Uphill... all depends of the gear ratios and the straight before the uphill part.

eSZee
The max low suspensions makes sense, I guess. The car is basically so low that the limited air under the car and the high downforce would make steering at 280mph+ almost nonexistent. It's being pushed down too hard for the steering. However, it DOESN'T STOP WORKING COMPLETELY as OP states. That is false. If you hold either direction the car will eventually start moving over.
That's how I got to 350mph a week ago, though. At even 10mm higher suspension, I wasn't able to get back to 350mph.

I use a controller. Maybe with a steering wheel you can make it steer a bit, but I couldnt.
And I couldn't make it keep straight either because at about 500 km/h the car gets unstable and goes from to the right side of the road. All very strange.

eSZee · Dec 23, 2013

NixxxoN
Hum, I'm pretty sure that an almost 300 HP car can reach 235 and a Z8 can reach 250 km/h without problems. Uphill... all depends of the gear ratios and the straight before the uphill part.

I use a controller. Maybe with a steering wheel you can make it steer a bit, but I couldnt.
And I couldn't make it keep straight either because at about 500 km/h the car gets unstable and goes from to the right side of the road. All very strange.

When I ran it, it was with a controller.
With no steering input the car eventually pulls to the left, but if you hold down left or right without letting go, the car will eventually turn.

NixxxoN · Dec 23, 2013

eSZee
When I ran it, it was with a controller.
With no steering input the car eventually pulls to the left, but if you hold down left or right without letting go, the car will eventually turn.

I tried holding it for several seconds and nothing happened. Maybe I should have held it a little bit more...
The whole thing is so weird anyway.

Snakebitten · Dec 23, 2013

I have ran into this problem with the Veyron. The OP is right. On Route X if you run it dropped all the way down it will not respond to turning left or right on the controller very well. You have to hold the controller stick left or right for many many seconds before it starts to respond ever so slightly and it wont respond in that direction for long it will just stay there for a while.

Forget about turning at speeds less than 220mph on the turns on Route X. You will have to come off the throttle obviously or you will be launched sideways into the air after ramming the barrier. So far I haven't run into this steering problem with any other car. The behavior reminded me of the 10k hp Veyron I had in GT5. It went so fast the front wheel was off the ground so it didn't respond to steering obviously in much the same way as the Veyron does in GT6 with a slammed suspension.

JuiceMcGoose · Dec 23, 2013

Cars in this game do not like both the front and back low to the ground. Even 1/8 up from the bottom may cause problems at high speed when you hit the brakes. It seems fine when you have one end 1/8 up from the ground and the other end up higher.

The only advantage to dropping a car in this game is looks. Every car I've tried it on slows it down and makes it handle and brake worse.

eSZee · Dec 23, 2013

NixxxoN
I tried holding it for several seconds and nothing happened. Maybe I should have held it a little bit more...
The whole thing is so weird anyway.

Letting off the gas also puts more weight on the front wheels and lets you steer but you slow down a bit.

JuiceMcGoose
Cars in this game do not like both the front and back low to the ground.

This is true. I try to keep all my cars at 15mm above lowest setting. Seems to be working so far.

JoGuedez · Dec 23, 2013

Sorry to get a bit offtopic, but i can't find the thread were you guys posted which cars had more HP when tuned, can anyone help me out please?

Terje · Dec 23, 2013

I think it has something to do with aerodynamics. If there is too much downforce on the rear wing, the front end lifts up at high speeds, which makes turning impossible. Tested this with the X2010 in GT5 with max rear downforce, max front ride hight and min rear ride hight. IIRC I reached 530kph, which was not possible if I tuned it normally.

Try adjusting the rear wing.

SVPSkins · Apr 22, 2015

got the '09 Veyron and found out just now, the steering goes at top speed of 230mph but at that speed the rear wing goes down. Almost straight away after the wings down and even with racing soft tyres, the cars like its on ice and starts to move around why slows down. could that be the problem your having?

TeamCZRRacing · Apr 22, 2015

SVPSkins
got the '09 Veyron and found out just now, the steering goes at top speed of 230mph but at that speed the rear wing goes down. Almost straight away after the wings down and even with racing soft tyres, the cars like its on ice and starts to move around why slows down. could that be the problem your having?

This thread's two years old. Likely he either found and fixed the issue or gave up long ago.

SVPSkins · Apr 22, 2015

TeamCZRRacing
This thread's two years old. Likely he either found and fixed the issue or gave up long ago.

well others are having the problem and since the Op made the post i personally didn't want to start another on the same topic =)

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

GT6 Top speeds are unrealistic, and sadly PD doesn't fix them. What a shame. Steering glitch? Somehow I am not surprised at all... well bugs happen, but PD basically doesn't fix them. Thats the problem. Or if they do fix, only minor and very slowly.

SVPSkins · Apr 22, 2015

YZF
GT6 Top speeds are unrealistic, and sadly PD doesn't fix them. What a shame. Steering glitch? Somehow I am not surprised at all... well bugs happen, but PD basically doesn't fix them. Thats the problem. Or if they do fix, only minor and very slowly.

PD can only do so much at a time. there doing the best they can with the number of people they have

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

SVPSkins
PD can only do so much at a time. there doing the best they can with the number of people they have

No. They are working very slow and their development management is very poor. They have hundreds of people which is a lot, and the bugs that appear are fixable in a day, but they fix them at best in a month. And some bugs are not fixed even after one and a half year.

I have experience with other companies, and they fix bugs so fast that its like day and night compared to PD.

Kaz has good vision about game itself, but he is poor manager of developers team. And this shows in the results they (do not) produce.

eran0004 · Apr 22, 2015

YZF
No. They are working very slow and their development management is very poor. They have hundreds of people which is a lot, and the bugs that appear are fixable in a day, but they fix them at best in a month. And some bugs are not fixed even after one and a half year.

I have experience with other companies, and they fix bugs so fast that its like day and night compared to PD.

Kaz has good vision about game itself, but he is poor manager of developers team. And this shows in the results they (do not) produce.

They have one person working on the vehicle dynamics simulation, not hundreds.

MarchingSaint · Apr 22, 2015

It has happened to me before, i explained myself that it s not a steering problem, but due to the high accelleration, the car did a "wheelie", making steering impossible ( at least it is my explanation with a 10/60 torque split and 1000+ hp and high aero on the back)

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

eran0004
They have one person working on the vehicle dynamics simulation, not hundreds.

And they have 200+ employess? That's what I am talking about. Poor management. There shouldn't be one person working on physics engine

(btw I don't believe that only one person is responsible for physics, show me the proof!)

MattieM · Apr 22, 2015

Maybe the floor of the car is touching the ground at high speeds and makes it difficult to steer? You can monitor the change in ride height in the datalogger. The lotus t97 gives nice sparks when bottoming out, don't know about the veyron.

eran0004 · Apr 22, 2015

YZF
And they have 200+ employess? That's what I am talking about. Poor management. There shouldn't be one person working on physics engine

(btw I don't believe that only one person is responsible for physics, show me the proof!)

It would seem like having more people working on the same task would get things done quicker, wouldn't it?

However, coding is mainly about problem-solving, not so much about actual typing. It doesn't go any faster just because you hire more people. In fact, the more people that collaborate on the same code, the higher the risk of bugs, because the left hand might not be aware of what the right hand is doing.

Here you go:

WarriusZero · Apr 22, 2015

eran0004
It would seem like having more people working on the same task would get things done quicker, wouldn't it?

However, coding is mainly about problem-solving, not so much about actual typing. It doesn't go any faster just because you hire more people. In fact, the more people that collaborate on the same code, the higher the risk of bugs, because the left hand might not be aware of what the right hand is doing.

I'll politely disagree.
While it doesn't divide by 2 the time spent, pair programming is a better and quicker way to develop. Two pairs of eyes have a better chance at catching mistakes before they even turn into bugs and solutions can be found faster.
Besides, code properly written should be readable by someone else.

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

eran0004
It would seem like having more people working on the same task would get things done quicker, wouldn't it?

However, coding is mainly about problem-solving, not so much about actual typing. It doesn't go any faster just because you hire more people. In fact, the more people that collaborate on the same code, the higher the risk of bugs, because the left hand might not be aware of what the right hand is doing.

Here you go:

View attachment 352097

Problem solving (especially in coding) is much MUCH faster, when more than one head is thinking. And less flaws (bugs).

However I still think that Akihiko Tan is responsible for the group of people, working on simulation. I don't think it's possible for one man to do all the job. Unless it is very low quality one...

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

By the way, now that we have tracked down THE MAN, maybe we can somehow get in touch with him and ask about GT6 physics simulation, and why it is so different (to the negative side) compared to the GT5? Why cars are so unrealistically fast?

Anyone got e-mail / facebook / <you-name-it> contact?

I wonder what he would say (and do) about this: http://s7.postimg.org/udp05gfk9/GT6_Top_Speed_Flaw.jpg

SVPSkins · Apr 22, 2015

well if you think its so easy to fix YZF, maybe you should get PD to employ you, so you fix everything by next week? how amazing you would be to save PD's reputation.

eran0004 · Apr 22, 2015

WarriusZero
I'll politely disagree.
While it doesn't divide by 2 the time spent, pair programming is a better and quicker way to develop. Two pairs of eyes have a better chance at catching mistakes before they even turn into bugs and solutions can be found faster.
Besides, code properly written should be readable by someone else.

For juniors and intermediates that is true. For senior programmers pair programming doesn't provide any benefits. The only noticable effect of pair programming for seniors is an increased cost.

http://www.powershow.com/view/1230d...grammer_Expertise_powerpoint_ppt_presentation

YZF
By the way, now that we have tracked down THE MAN, maybe we can somehow get in touch with him and ask about GT6 physics simulation, and why it is so different (to the negative side) compared to the GT5? Why cars are so unrealistically fast?

Anyone got e-mail / facebook / <you-name-it> contact?

I wonder what he would say (and do) about this: http://s7.postimg.org/udp05gfk9/GT6_Top_Speed_Flaw.jpg

Well, good luck tracking him down.

The cars are probably so much faster in GT6 because they use computational fluid dynamics to calculate the aerodynamics. On the plus side it means that wings and downforce has a greater impact on drag, on the minus side it's not very accurate.

Assuming it's the CFD that's causing it, they could try to improve the fluid simulation (but if the fluid simulation is running in the actual physics engine it might be hard to improve the accuraccy of it without causing performance issues) or they could patch it up by scaling the outcome of the simulation by some factor (provided that all cars are off by the same factor).

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

SVPSkins
well if you think its so easy to fix YZF, maybe you should get PD to employ you, so you fix everything by next week? how amazing you would be to save PD's reputation.

I'd gladly offer my service to fix this issue (not everything mind you), and even for free. If PD would agree. Bring it on!

eran0004
Assuming it's the CFD that's causing it, they could try to improve the fluid simulation (but if the fluid simulation is running in the actual physics engine it might be hard to improve the accuraccy of it without causing performance issues) or they could patch it up by scaling the outcome of the simulation by some factor (provided that all cars are off by the same factor).

Bingo! Just add correction coeficient to the output (probably to the one, responsible for air resistance calculation, as the difference becomes noticable above 130 mph). Easy patch.

But it's not the technical problem to solve...oh no...I have a feeling they have other 'priorities'...

YZF · Apr 22, 2015

Oh no, look at this!! Is he not working anymore??

If it's true, whats going on?

Is my conspiracy theory true? (they noticed huge physics issue after game was released, they decided it's too hard to fix, but its a big thing so they fired him??)

Or he left before the main development and release of GT6 and that means physics engine quality became much worse than in previous GT titles..?

:rolleyes:

grind mouse · Apr 22, 2015

i don't know if the Veyron's glitch exist or not because of my ignorance about the sciences in general and math to, but i read this trhead and so doing some proofs, the Veyron 16.4 '13 of the game does 416 kmh of max speed on ssx route ( consider the downhill,and oil change to)9.30 am realistic surface,soft sport tires,and not 460 how i read here, so i make a fully tuned version, and yes with low suspension settings the front steering become very slow or dosen't works well, because weight and the downforce plus the speed (i think) ,but if i try to move the power to the rear wheels like 10:90 and use an high suspensions setting and hard springs setting to , the car's steering works well , i do 3.54,6 of lap time with ss tires.(485 kmh top speed,nitro).
Probably they fixed the unrealistic's top speed of some cars, as we know, but the STOCK Veyron had never did 460 kmh , on my gt6.