Buick Grand National/GNX Discussion

[Boz Mon]

Hey guys, I need some help clarifying an disagreement that a friend of mine and I have. We were at a local cruise night the other night shooting the breeze, and I noticed that there was a GNX behind me. I thought the GNX was a rare trim model, better than just the regular GN. So that is the first point of discussion, is the GNX different/more rare from the GN? The second is, was the turbo on the GN a factory option? I was under the impression that all GN's came with a turbo. 3rd, and lastly, was the GN ever offered with a V-8? My friend seems to think that there were 50 GN's made with turbo V-8s.

To recap
1. What is the difference between the GN, and the GN-X
2. Was the turbo on the GN an option?
3 Was there ever a V-8 (limited to 50) offered on the GN

 

[Joey D]

Yes, the turbo was an option on Grand National when it was first introduced in 82. It was the same engine though, a 4.1L V6. Later, in 1984, it got the 3.8L turbo engine as standard I believe.

Here is some information on the GNX via the internet:

For the final year, 1987, Buick introduced the GNX at $29,000. Produced by McLaren/ASC, Buick underrated the GNX at 276 hp (206 kW) and a very substantial 360 lb·ft (488 N·m) of torque.[1] This was created so as to be "Grand National to end all Grand Nationals," as the next model year converted the chassis to front-wheel drive, which Buick engineers admitted would not be able to put down that much power[citation needed]. Changes made included a special Garrett turbocharger with a ceramic-impeller blowing through a more efficient intercooler and a "CERMATEL (Ceramic/Aluminum) coated" pipe connecting the intercooler to the engine. A GNX specific EEPROM, low-restriction exhaust with dual mufflers, reprogrammed Turbo Hydramatic 200-4R transmission with a custom torque converter and transmission cooler, and unique differential cover/panhard bar included more of the performance modifications. Exterior styling changes include vents located on each front fender, 16 inch black mesh style wheels with VR-speed rated tires, and deletion of the hood and fender emblems. The interior changes of the GNX included a serial number on the dash plaque and a revised instrument cluster providing analog Stewart-Warner gauges, including an analog turbo boost gauge. The GNX was claimed as the fastest production sedan ever built at that time.[citation needed] GNX #001 is currently owned by Buick and sometimes makes appearances at car shows around the US. The GNX had a ladder bar that ran from the mid-section of the car to the rear axle, so as to increase traction. This is also the reason why a GNX will actually lift the rear end up when the car is about to launch heavily.

It appears that it was hopped up version of the normal Grand National.

I don't think the Grand National came with a V8 although I'm pretty sure the Regal did.

It's been a while since I researched GN's, but I was going to buy one at one point in time. The info might be off a little, although Wiki confirmed most of it.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

GNX added flares, front fender vents, gauges, special rear suspension, the wheels, different turbo (ceramic wheel) and that's basically it. Apparently a bit of chassis bracing and GNX headrests too

GNs always came with the turbo, however the GN's V6 was optional on the Regal (T-Type)

Never a V8 GN.

 

[Joey D]

GNs always came with the turbo, however the GN's V6 was optional on the Regal (T-Type)

Not true.

In 1982, the Regal Grand National debuted. Named for the NASCAR Grand National racing series, it came with a naturally aspirated 4.1 L V6 engine with 125 hp (93 kW) at 4000 rpm and 205 lb·ft (278 N·m) of torque at 2000 rpm or an optional turbocharged version with 175 hp (130 kW) at 4000 rpm and 275 lb·ft (373 N·m) of torque at 2600 rpm. Only 215 Regal Grand Nationals were produced in 1982, and most were not turbocharged.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Not true.

Okay Mr. Technicality.

Someone says GN, everyone else thinks 84-7.

 

[Joey D]

Okay Mr. Technicality.

Someone says GN, everyone else thinks 84-7.

Does it matter you made an untrue statement, fact check your stuff before you post, especially when the poster is asking pretty specific questions. The fact is that the turbo was an option at one point in time on the Grand National.

 

[Boz Mon]

So the regal had an optional turbo, but the actual GN was always turbo?

Some pics of the cars:

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The actual GN that everyone knows and loves, the 1984-1987 was ALWAYS a turbo.

The '82 model carried the name but otherwise is completely insignificant to this discussion.

 

[Joey D]

So the regal had an optional turbo, but the actual GN was always turbo?

Like I said in 1982 the Grand National had an optional turbo. Yes the turbos in the Regal were optional. Apparently after looking around you could get a 4.3L V8 in the Regal's as well.

The actual GN that everyone knows and loves, the 1984-1987 was ALWAYS a turbo.

The '82 model carried the name but otherwise is completely insignificant to this discussion.

Give it up, you were wrong. The 1982 model was the introduction to the Grand National moniker and it doesn't even look all that different body style wise except for the color.

Yes the 84-87 models were always turboed, I'm not even remotely disputing that fact, but to say all Grand Nationals were turbocharged is flat out wrong. Like I said, try doing some fact checking before you post.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Like I said in 1982 the Grand National had an optional turbo. Yes the turbos in the Regal were optional. Apparently after looking around you could get a 4.3L V8 in the Regal's as well.

Yeah and you could also get a 5.0L V8 in the Regals at the time the GN was produced.

Regal =/= GN.

Give it up, you were wrong. The 1982 model was the introduction to the Grand National moniker and it doesn't even look all that different body style wise except for the color.

No, I thought a Regal from that generation didn't look like a Regal from that generation.[/sarcasm]

Park a GN next to a Regal and you can say the exact same thing.

Yes the 84-87 models were always turboed, I'm not even remotely disputing that fact, but to say all Grand Nationals were turbocharged is flat out wrong. Like I said, try doing some fact checking before you post.

So you mean I have to go and triple check everything I'm very sure to be correct?

I'm sorry but I'm not here to be a damned know-it-all despite what you may think. Shoot me for going off the top of my head and not recalling that there was an '82 model that was not turbocharged.

 

[Joey D]

Yeah and you could also get a 5.0L V8 in the Regals at the time the GN was produced.

Regal =/= GN.

A Grand National is a Regal, how aren't they the same thing? That's like saying a Z06 isn't a Corvette. Just different trim levels.

And yes I forgot about the 5.0L.

So you mean I have to go and triple check everything I'm very sure to be correct?

I'm sorry but I'm not here to be a damned know-it-all despite what you may think. Shoot me for going off the top of my head and not recalling that there was an '82 model that was not turbocharged.

No, I didn't even triple check anything. I wrote a bunch of stuff down and then typed "Buick Grand National" into Wikipedia to make sure I was correct. It took me all of 30 seconds to do and I had to change some of my information, such as the displacement on the 4.1L V6...I had assumed it was the 3.8L.

And you really could have fooled me with the know-it-all thing. You could have just said "oops, forgot about the 82" and we'd been all set, I wouldn't have cared because we all forget. However trying to back pedal you way out of it by trying to alter the fact to make you sound right doesn't really sit well. Nor does getting angry because I called you on something.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

A Grand National is a Regal, how aren't they the same thing? That's like saying a Z06 isn't a Corvette. Just different trim levels.

My point was that saying the Regal was available with a V8 does not mean the GN was.

No, I didn't even triple check anything. I wrote a bunch of stuff down and then typed "Buick Grand National" into Wikipedia to make sure I was correct. It took me all of 30 seconds to do and I had to change some of my information, such as the displacement on the 4.1L V6...I had assumed it was the 3.8L.

Yeah I can see that.

And you really could have fooled me with the know-it-all thing. You could have just said "oops, forgot about the 82" and we'd been all set, I wouldn't have cared because we all forget. However trying to back pedal you way out of it by trying to alter the fact to make you sound right doesn't really sit well. Nor does getting angry because I called you on something.

I'm not angry. Just a bit confused where you expect to give a two-word reply and a quote and not come off as a *insert BMW/Audi stereotype here*

And it's not the first post I've seen from you where (whether you mean to or not) you do so. And since I don't really know you aside from what I can see through what you say on here, I can't tell when you're actually trying to be an ass or when you're just communicating normally.

 

[Joey D]

When I said "not true" it was purely neutral, there is no humbleness or cockiness implied by it, just a neutral statement. Now I can see where you would be upset if I would have said "not true you ignorant bastard" or something to that effect, that would have made me look like the ass and I wouldn't like to be treated that way either.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

When I said "not true" it was purely neutral, there is no humbleness or cockiness implied by it, just a neutral statement. Now I can see where you would be upset if I would have said "not true you ignorant bastard" or something to that effect, that would have made me look like the ass and I wouldn't like to be treated that way either.

Fair enough then.

 

[Omnis]

My grandma had a huge V8 regal. It was her favorite car because the wheel was easy to turn.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

My grandma had a huge V8 regal. It was her favorite car because the wheel was easy to turn.

Nice. She would've loved a 1980s Seville then eh? Light steering to the point that if you fling the wheel the inertia of the wheel will keep it spinning until it hits the locks.

 

[YSSMAN]

To recap
1. What is the difference between the GN, and the GN-X
2. Was the turbo on the GN an option?
3 Was there ever a V-8 (limited to 50) offered on the GN

I think the others have pretty much have it covered, but to keep things more simple:

1. The GN and GNX were essentially the same cars, however the GNX recieved a pretty significant power upgrade, as well as new cosmetic touches inside and out
2. The Turbocharged 3.8L V6 was available in a wide variety of GM vehicles at the time, not just the GN and GNX. It was also an option in the Pontiac Grand Prix, the 20th Anniversary Pontiac Trans-Am, the GMC Syclone and Typhoon, as well as the various Buick Regal Turbo models. I think Oldsmobile had a Turbo model available as well, but I don't remember which one it was.
3. There was never a V8-powered GN or GNX, but as someone else pointed out, there were various V8-powered Regals produced in that generation (as well as the Monte Carlo, Cutlass and Grand Prix).

The GN and GNX were awesome vehicles that were otherwise ahead of their time, but unfortunately, were handicapped by the early struggles of GM that would ultimately send them crashing to a halt earlier this year. People often forget how much that technology went into other vehicles, and frankly, how fast these cars actually were.

 

[Tornado]

1. The Turbocharged 3.8L V6 was available in a wide variety of GM vehicles at the time, not just the GN and GNX. It was also an option in the Pontiac Grand Prix, the 20th Anniversary Pontiac Trans-Am, the GMC Syclone and Typhoon, as well as the various Buick Regal Turbo models. I think Oldsmobile had a Turbo model available as well, but I don't remember which one it was.

Typhoons and Syclones had Vortec 4300s with turbos on them. Not 3800s.

A Grand National is a Regal, how aren't they the same thing? That's like saying a Z06 isn't a Corvette. Just different trim levels.

Actually, I'm not sure if that was actually the case. Sure, they were technically Regals, but I think only the 1982 model was sold as part of the Regal range. I *think* the Grand National was treated as a separate model when it returned in 1984, kind like how the Impala SS was technically just a Caprice with a different C-pillar.

1. What is the difference between the GN, and the GN-X

Grand National was the standard car (which itself was incrementally upgraded over the years and was itself merely a rather heavily modified Regal T-Type), the GNX was a special edition designed as a going away present for the G-Body platform. It had a special turbocharger and intercooler system designed specifically for the car that added something like 40 horsepower. It also had a modified frame so it could be better at drag racing.

2. Was the turbo on the GN an option?

On the real Grand Nationals? No. On the 1982 model? Yes. Again, I'm not sure if the 84-87 Grand Nationals were marketed as Regals like the 1982 model was, because that is a rather important distinction that does change the answer to the question.

3 Was there ever a V-8 (limited to 50) offered on the GN

No, but the Oldsmobile Hust/Olds (produced in 1983-84 and Oldsmobile 4-4-2 (produced in 1985-87) was pretty close, sharing pretty much everything but the engine (which was an Oldsmobile 307 V8). They were closer to the Grand National than the similar Monte Carlo and Grand Prix were because the Oldsmobiles used the stronger drivetrain parts used in the Grand National. Adding to the above parts commonality, they also looked like this:

So the confusion should be pretty understandable.

 

[Boz Mon]

I guess I sparked a pretty heated discussion. Thanks for all the info guys, and keep it coming if anyone has any more.

 

[JCE]

Rather than get into the arguement I'll just add my comment that the GNX is uber sex. That is all.

And I've never seen a hopped up Oldsmobile past the early 70's...so to my surprise I see this:

Which looks pretty damn awsome! I like it!

 

[buickgnx88]

Check out the shifters it came with.

Anywho, as my username points out I love the GNX (yes it says 88, but that's the year I was born ). I'm fond of cars with monochromatic paintjobs, especially in black. The GNX just goes beyond that with the wheel flares and black spoked wheels. Just think how awesome it would be to pick up one and drop in a 5-speed stick...

 

[mustangGT90210]

How the bloody hell do those work?!

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Basically, they're kind of a "His-n-hers" shifter. There are three shift rods in the center console. The left one goes P R N OD D and works like a normal gearshift with the exception of no L(ow). If you shift it all the way down into D, then the car is limited to third gear or lower

When in D, you can shift the middle lever toward you to now limit the car to 2nd gear. When it's down you can pull the right lever to limit to first. When accelerating you can start with all the shifters toward you, then throw the right, center, then left one forward while accelerating. Kind of fun, but in reality they're not much more than a gimmick, since the tranny is set to shift at about 5200rpm on WOT.

- 442.com

 

[Omnis]

Nice. She would've loved a 1980s Seville then eh? Light steering to the point that if you fling the wheel the inertia of the wheel will keep it spinning until it hits the locks.

Yeah seriously. You could sneeze on it and send yourself into a ditch.

Some guy bought her car to turn it into a drag car. He blew it up a few weeks later.

 

[mustangGT90210]

Was he racing in a cross wind

 

[Boz Mon]

- 442.com

Gimmick or not, I think its pretty cool. 👍

 

[JCE]

Check out the shifters it came with.

Anywho, as my username points out I love the GNX (yes it says 88, but that's the year I was born ). I'm fond of cars with monochromatic paintjobs, especially in black. The GNX just goes beyond that with the wheel flares and black spoked wheels. Just think how awesome it would be to pick up one and drop in a 5-speed stick...

That's actually kind of awsome actually.

 

[nolikerice]

by

 

[AmericanCarNut]

Just for information:
Buick made turbo 3.8's only, 4.1 v6's were carbed only/no FI.
All turbo 3.8's were 2 or 4bbl carbed from 1978-1983
ALL 1982 Buick Grand Nationals were built with 4.1 4bbl V6's(215 Built)
1984-85 Grand Nationals were identical except for interiors on the '84's(Lear Sieglear seats)First ever use of SEFI by american manufactures, were NOT intercooled as were later models
1986-87 Grand Nationals were same except for grille and PCM chip
1987 GNX had different: Turbo(same flow capacity, different materials), front fender vents(functional), front and rear wheelwell flares, torque-arm rear suspension modfication, headrests and badging, factory authorized transmission "shift-kit", body braces behind rear seat, PCM re-cal'd.(547 Built)
1989-90 Pontiac GTP Turbo Grand Prix was 3.1 (chevy v6) intercooled.
1991-up Syclone/Typhoon had 4.3 intercooled chevy engine
1989 Turbo Trans-Am had Buick 3.8 SEFI intercooled engine with different cylinder heads and ex-manifolds. (1500 Built)
Buick NEVER built a turbo V6 with manual trans, nor did they ever build a "Factory" twin-turbo GN.
1987 T-Types(regals) were available with both turbo V6 and carbed V8's(olds 307/5.0)
1986 Lesabre Grand Nationals were appearance packages only.

1984 Hurst/Olds 442 used Hurst "Lightning Rods" for shifter, truely a "Gimmick"

Thanks for telling everyone the facts and getting everything figured out. Or I was going to have to do the same thing you did. You saved me lots of time, you certainly know your GM cars like me.

 

[Boz Mon]

Just for information:
Buick made turbo 3.8's only, 4.1 v6's were carbed only/no FI.
All turbo 3.8's were 2 or 4bbl carbed from 1978-1983
ALL 1982 Buick Grand Nationals were built with 4.1 4bbl V6's(215 Built)
1984-85 Grand Nationals were identical except for interiors on the '84's(Lear Sieglear seats)First ever use of SEFI by american manufactures, were NOT intercooled as were later models
1986-87 Grand Nationals were same except for grille and PCM chip
1987 GNX had different: Turbo(same flow capacity, different materials), front fender vents(functional), front and rear wheelwell flares, torque-arm rear suspension modfication, headrests and badging, factory authorized transmission "shift-kit", body braces behind rear seat, PCM re-cal'd.(547 Built)
1989-90 Pontiac GTP Turbo Grand Prix was 3.1 (chevy v6) intercooled.
1991-up Syclone/Typhoon had 4.3 intercooled chevy engine
1989 Turbo Trans-Am had Buick 3.8 SEFI intercooled engine with different cylinder heads and ex-manifolds. (1500 Built)
Buick NEVER built a turbo V6 with manual trans, nor did they ever build a "Factory" twin-turbo GN.
1987 T-Types(regals) were available with both turbo V6 and carbed V8's(olds 307/5.0)
1986 Lesabre Grand Nationals were appearance packages only.

1984 Hurst/Olds 442 used Hurst "Lightning Rods" for shifter, truely a "Gimmick"

What can you tell me about V-8 equipped GN's/GNX's? My buddy is still insisting that there is such a thing.

And just for clarification: could you buy any year GN with a naturally aspirated V-6 regardless of displacement?