Cadillac CTS-V Coupe '11 vs. BMW M3 Coupe '07 @ Suzuka!

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88GTA
So basically, the CTS-V is about 20pp overrated. Good to know. 👍
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Yes, its a good example of the flawed PP system. Some cars have too little PP for its performance (therefore they're so quick with equal PP) and some others, like this Cadillac, the opposite.. they have too much PP for its performance.
crowhop
I don't think there is a 2 door coupe that heavy in the game.
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There are actually 4 mercedes SL models heavier than the Cadillac.
 
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What about the car that supposedly was aimed AT the M3: The Mustang Boss 302?

If I recall from a previous test at Suzuka, this car is actually faster then the M3 (and is only slower then the Shelby because Powaaah).
 
2:19.200 - IS F
2:19.356 - Boss 302
2:19.431 - XKR '10
2:19.577 - DB9 '06

2:20.141 - M3 '07
2:20.442 - CTS-V

2:20.859 - Maserati
2:21.814 - XFR '10
 
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RACECAR
What about the car that supposedly was aimed AT the M3: The Mustang Boss 302?

If I recall from a previous test at Suzuka, this car is actually faster then the M3 (and is only slower then the Shelby because Powaaah).
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Good choice.


@SuzukaStar

In fairness though, this is only one track tested. I do love reading your comparisons because they're consistent but its entirely possible that many cars are quicker at some tracks than others. Suzuka doesn't really have many long straights to take advantage of the CTS-V's big power advantage over the BMW M3. The results would likely vary greatly depending on the track.

For example, here's the real life Nurburgring Nordschliefe results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

7:59 Cadillac CTS-V

8:05 BMW M3 E92
 
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I agree! Maybe I should tackle two tracks in GT7. What should the other track be?
 
You're using the wrong car. The Boss 302 was made to compete with the E92 M3
 
A lot of American sport cars are overrated IMO. I see too many CTS-V 's (except when I get my camera up they go behind a lorry) and I can't get over the fact that people think since it's a Caddy, and a V edition, that it's the best damn American thing there is. I view it as the same with all corvettes. 100% of the time I see any corvette every day I drive. 99% of the time I see someone walking to their Vette (only for Z06's and ZR1's) I ask them a few questions (I'm a car spotter type) and ask to take pictures and also ask if they've ever been to Road Atlanta or any other local tracks and the answer is no.

It's like this with trucks also. I see more trucks used as grocery getters than anything else. I dunno if anyone understands this, but it's one of those things where if it ain't used for what it's made for, why get it in the first place. Maybe I'm just ranting.

But this was one of my favorite posts so far by you Suzuka.
 
If Suzuka is @SuzukaStar's home track, Laguna Seca is mine. So, here's my comparison of the two cars. Same settings as SS's. Stock, SH tires, grip to real, ABS 1, TCS 0.

07 BMW M3: 1:37.617
11 Cadillac CTS-V: 1:38.725

The M3 is 1.108 quicker.

13 Ford Mustang 302: 1:37.238
.379 faster than the M3.
 
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The Boss is holding it down for Americano. Why so much negativity towards American cars. They are improving and are wayyyyy better then they're 80s, 90s, and earlier 2000 selfs
 
Swagger897
A lot of American sport cars are overrated IMO. I see too many CTS-V 's (except when I get my camera up they go behind a lorry) and I can't get over the fact that people think since it's a Caddy, and a V edition, that it's the best damn American thing there is. I view it as the same with all corvettes. 100% of the time I see any corvette every day I drive. 99% of the time I see someone walking to their Vette (only for Z06's and ZR1's) I ask them a few questions (I'm a car spotter type) and ask to take pictures and also ask if they've ever been to Road Atlanta or any other local tracks and the answer is no.

It's like this with trucks also. I see more trucks used as grocery getters than anything else. I dunno if anyone understands this, but it's one of those things where if it ain't used for what it's made for, why get it in the first place. Maybe I'm just ranting.

But this was one of my favorite posts so far by you Suzuka.
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So your problem is with the people who own them and throw godlike praise at them whilst never actually driving them to the limit rather then the actual cars themselves, at least thats what I get (especially the part where you asked if they've been to a track and they say no).
 
BobbyBRAKEaNek
The Boss is holding it down for Americano. Why so much negativity towards American cars. They are improving and are wayyyyy better then they're 80s, 90s, and earlier 2000 selfs
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They are improving but not enough. They are not thinking outside of the box enough as compared to the Germans or maybe even Japanese. Audi already has a RS5 TDI concept in the works, which should be a little bit less in terms of performance than the petrol version.

What is something innovative that an American company has created in the last 10-15 years, which was only worked on in-house? I cant think of it.

RACECAR
So your problem is with the people who own them and throw godlike praise at them whilst never actually driving them to the limit rather then the actual cars themselves, at least thats what I get (especially the part where you asked if they've been to a track and they say no).
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Im sure you could understand that there are cars out there no one has heard about and you see maybe once in a lifetime that the majority of the public doesnt give a hoot over. I.E.: Audi Coupe 100 S. It is basically the RS7 of the 70's. I dream to own that car one day, but others look at it as a car no one would ever want.

And then you have the status cars, where people have no care for what they think of the car themselves, but only to be a pompous jack-wagon to everyone else.

To put it short, the ones who are not car people, will never understand the true meanings to cars. They will never appreciate the history, the racing, the love of the art of making cars, ect.... Then you have us car guys.. Who delve ourselves into internal combustion heaven and learn the ins and outs to everything...

But, this has no meaning to the thread, and now i sit here wondering how it all happened..
 
The CTS is just an absolute pig to drive.
That doesn't stop me from trying to use it where I can. :p
(There's a reason the front is so damaged..)
 
Swagger897
Im sure you could understand that there are cars out there no one has heard about and you see maybe once in a lifetime that the majority of the public doesnt give a hoot over. I.E.: Audi Coupe 100 S. It is basically the RS7 of the 70's. I dream to own that car one day, but others look at it as a car no one would ever want.

And then you have the status cars, where people have no care for what they think of the car themselves, but only to be a pompous jack-wagon to everyone else.

To put it short, the ones who are not car people, will never understand the true meanings to cars. They will never appreciate the history, the racing, the love of the art of making cars, ect.... Then you have us car guys.. Who delve ourselves into internal combustion heaven and learn the ins and outs to everything...
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Oh I understand that. Its those kind of people that give sports car/Super cars that negative stigma of them only being bought by rich snobs with wallets bigger then their brains. I would mention the stereotype involving private parts but thats so overused, its hard to take that seriously anymore whenever someone says it.


Anyhow, on-topic now. Interesting to see that while the Boss 302 isn't that far ahead of the M3, it at least still very capable of being competitive with it. Its far more of a match then the Cadillac.. Also, I kinda don't like the 2011 CTS-V coupe. I just don't like that shape, I find it barely acceptable in its World Challenge Form. I just think that shape does not work with the angular Cadillac lines.
 
How's the CV8 Monaro stack up against the M3..?
 
@Swagger897 The ATS is being rated better then the F30 3 series in fun and performance. Sounds like they are starting to make a huge headway. The new GT350 is going to be a beast and the Z/28 is outrageous. Once they drop the Camaro's current platform for the new lighter one who knows how good that car can be. The hellcat challenger is monsterous grand tourer. C7?!! C7 Z06?!! ATS-V?!! New CTS-V?!! New 5.0 or even the turbo 4 Stang?!! You're right! They aren't even close. (Sarcasm intended)
 
Swagger897
A lot of American sport cars are overrated IMO. I see too many CTS-V 's (except when I get my camera up they go behind a lorry) and I can't get over the fact that people think since it's a Caddy, and a V edition, that it's the best damn American thing there is. I view it as the same with all corvettes. 100% of the time I see any corvette every day I drive. 99% of the time I see someone walking to their Vette (only for Z06's and ZR1's) I ask them a few questions (I'm a car spotter type) and ask to take pictures and also ask if they've ever been to Road Atlanta or any other local tracks and the answer is no.

It's like this with trucks also. I see more trucks used as grocery getters than anything else. I dunno if anyone understands this, but it's one of those things where if it ain't used for what it's made for, why get it in the first place. Maybe I'm just ranting.

But this was one of my favorite posts so far by you Suzuka.
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I don't see anything like that with Caddy owners. Most are middle-aged to elderly men. The V owners are basically the same demographic except they just have more money and want the top of the line Caddy.

As for Corvette's, I don't understand why its an issue if someone doesn't track their car. I owned a 2003 Corvette Z06 and I never ran mine on a road course, although I ran it at the drag strip a few times. Just because you buy a car that may be more track worthy than others doesn't mean you have to take it to the track. The Z06 was the most fun car I ever owned and even though I didn't take it to a road course, I assure you I had my fun with it.

I also particpated in the SRT Experience where I drove all of the SRT vehicles on a road course and oval circuit and 3 months later I bought a 2006 Charger SRT8 but I never took it to a track. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the car.
 
BobbyBRAKEaNek
@Swagger897 The ATS is being rated better then the F30 3 series in fun and performance. Sounds like they are starting to make a huge headway. The new GT350 is going to be a beast and the Z/28 is outrageous. Once they drop the Camaro's current platform for the new lighter one who knows how good that car can be. The hellcat challenger is monsterous grand tourer. C7?!! C7 Z06?!! ATS-V?!! New CTS-V?!! New 5.0 or even the turbo 4 Stang?!! You're right! They aren't even close. (Sarcasm intended)
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Yep, the Hellcat Challenger runs 10.8's at the drag strip for $60k. Show me any Euro or Japanse car that does that for that price. No need for anyone to look, they don't exist.
 
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I wonder what the Challenger Hellcat can do at Suzuka...Also hear they're putting that 707 hp engine in the lighter Charger as well. I hope PD is planning to put at least one of them in GT7...

The ZR1 can do 2:10 so the Challenger would probably be a few seconds behind.
 
SuzukaStar
I wonder what the Challenger Hellcat can do at Suzuka...Also hear they're putting that 707 hp engine in the lighter Charger as well. I hope PD is planning to put at least one of them in GT7...

The ZR1 can do 2:10 so the Challenger would probably be a few seconds behind.
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I can't imagine the Charger is going to be any lighter than the Challenger. Last generation they were both almost the same weight except the Challenger was maybe 50lbs lighter. The thing about the Hellcat Challenger and Charger is that they're still 4000lb+ cars, they won't ever been outstanding on a road course but for 4000lb+ cars, they certainly perform better than you would ever expect for large vehicles, this is based on my own real world experience of owning an Charger SRT8 but I don't know how well that will translate in a game. For large, heavy cars, they actually handle and brake very good, but there's no getting around the fact that they aren't lightweights and aren't going to be as nimble as a car weighing 3200lbs or less.
 
Blkout
Yep, the Hellcat Challenger runs 10.8's at the drag strip for $60k. Show me any Euro or Japanse car that does that for that price. No need for anyone to look, they don't exist.
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I knew I would get myself into this...
But that's the only stereotypical thing Americans care for, (the majority where I'm from) is straight line speed, and hp. Dump power in a car, and call it the greatest thing ever...
 
The reason why most Americans only care about power and nothing else, is because most American roadways are very wide, and as straight as an arrow.

Every day I see people floor it from red light to red light, and I just catch up to them as they sit and wait. Half the time I never have to make a full stop, which is great because unlike most Americans, I drive a manual.

What good is all that power if you can't use it? If I had a car with 700 hp, it would live at the racetrack.
 
Swagger897
I knew I would get myself into this...
But that's the only stereotypical thing Americans care for, (the majority where I'm from) is straight line speed, and hp. Dump power in a car, and call it the greatest thing ever...
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Not sure what you're talking about when the Corvette can compete against just about any car in the world at a fraction of its price on a road course. The Boss 302 Mustang which used to be known as a muscle car is quicker than a BMW M3 on most road courses. It has nothing to do with power although American cars tend to make more power for the most part and get better gas mileage, meet tighter emission standards doing it, and at a lower cost to the consumer, that's fine engineering by anyone's standards.

But I see you want to limit yourself to road course only requirements which is simply stupid. Not everyone wants a car just for a road course. The Hellcat Challenger is one fine straight line machine for its price and handles good enough for the majority of its target audience, not a single production car in the world can match its performance at its price.

Then there's the creature comforts, BMW often gets rave reviews for its driving experience, but the interior is as bare bones and boring as can be. Do you think all car manufacturers should focus only on performance forget about anything else such as interior comforts that mayb 80% of buyers actually care about? A Caddy CTS-V, regardless of your opinion on big HP numbers has all the comforts you could ever ask for, making a BMW M3 looks rather cheap in comparison.

Arguments like this drive me nuts because you want to argue such a narrow point of view and don't take into consideration all of the factors and criteria that an auto manufacturer has to sift through and decide where production cost is best spent to hit their target audience, and I can tell you for a fact, handling is not at the top of the list for any manufacturer although for some it may be higher on the list than others.

And on my final note I'll leave you with this. VEYRON.
 
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SuzukaStar
The reason why most Americans only care about power and nothing else, is because most American roadways are very wide, and as straight as an arrow.

Every day I see people floor it from red light to red light, and I just catch up to them as they sit and wait. Half the time I never have to make a full stop, which is great because unlike most Americans, I drive a manual.

What good is all that power if you can't use it? If I had a car with 700 hp, it would live at the racetrack.
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Its about having fun when you want to have fun, and that's bottom line. Rarely does anyone live where we can floor a car and run it to its top speed whenever we feel like it. If I want to stab the throttle and smoke the tires a bit on my way to 100mph only to slow down again at the next stop light, then that's fine, as long as it put a grin on my face. That's all that most buyers want that purchase a powerful car.
 
Blkout
an auto manufacturer has to sift through and decide where production cost is best spent to hit their target audience, and I can tell you for a fact, handling is not at the top of the list for any manufacturer although for some it may be higher on the list than others.
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*Cough* Lotus *cough* :sly:
 
SuzukaStar
*Cough* Lotus *cough* :sly:
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I almost mentioned Lotus as the only manufacturer I know of, but then again, only the Elise and Exige fit the bill, the Evora is nothing special. You could argue that Porsche and Ferrari are near the top as well, but most of their vehicles are well outside the price range of normal people and certainly fall into the less than 5%.
 
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