Car handles differently in practice and qualifying than in actual race.

  • Thread starter jasguer
  • 55 comments
  • 9,899 views
Tidgney
I did identical lap times in my latest race video :).

I don't think there's a difference between practice and qualifying however there is a difference between qualifying and race. I believe this is fuel weight and if you are racing mid pack dirty air is a major factor. I'm not affected as much by the fuel load just due to my driving style but if you drive very aggressive you will see a considerable difference between times.

But to give you an idea I was constantly 1:22's (Mid) in practice last night in the Manufacturers cup at Brands hatch, in qualifying I was doing similar lap times and in the race I was doing high 22's and low 23's.
Click to expand...
How does your driving style overcome the physics of a heavier load? If a car is heavier and it's modeled in the game, you literally cannot accelerate as quickly, brake as short, nor corner with as much g-force as you can with a lighter fuel load.
 
yesterday at big willow with the caymans, I experienced some lagging (my screen showed me with 4 bar connection), could that be adding to the feeling of different grip? It felt like the car was bogging down and not wanting to accelerate but everyone's car was doing that. The lag lasted about 2 laps and I was around 1.5-2 sec slower, assuming it went away because the crowd spread out maybe? no idea, but after it went away, my lap times were back to about normal, maybe .2 seconds off from qualifier.
 
I typically see c.0.5s difference between qualifying times and race times in no tyre wear events.

I don't think I've ever matched my qualifying time in a race unless I've been in the draft of one of someone like Derek/Dayrone/Patohm/Nissman/TRL_x. Nor have I seen any of these guys match/beat their qualifying time unless he's not maxed his qualifying time, and manages to pull out a mega lap in the race... I know pretty precisely where I stand in the lap time pecking order, and it's pretty easy for me to judge if one of the really fast guys has time left to find in qualifying.

The gap may be fuel load dependent, but I don't think there's any 'dirt air' effect... I can run faster when following as I get a tow on the straights.
 
I don't know for sure but if quali has no tyre wear, and the race has tyre wear, the tyres act slightly differently with tyre wear set on. I also think there is a chance the race-start has colder tyres than "just out of pit / just off the warmers" quali / warm-up.

Update: Some events have no tyre wear so my initial point is wrong. I have however personally felt the effect, but I've also beat my quali time a few times in a race. For me the effect is temporary and only at the start, making me think it's a weird temperature thing.
 
GTWelsh
Update: Some events have no tyre wear so my initial point is wrong. I have however personally felt the effect, but I've also beat my quali time a few times in a race. For me the effect is temporary and only at the start, making me think it's a weird temperature thing.
Click to expand...

I think fuel weight also is strongly mixed into the equation.

In a race with fuel and tire use turned on I generally turn my best laps after running 3-4 laps and burning off more fuel with more worn tires rather than lap 2 which would have race tires up to full temp but still fairly fresh but with a much heavier fuel load still on board.

But there is a difference no doubt.
 
Johnnypenso
I'm not assuming driver skill. In the case of the Miatas, driver skill is 57 seconds. In the race those same skills are 59 seconds a lap, no assumptions necessary. Dirty air won't cause that for every single driver on every lap so using that as an explanation won't fly. As I said, if fuel is worth 2 seconds a lap, and I highly doubt it, it's easy enough to demonstrate.
Click to expand...

I'll explain more of my Miata example as it might help us understand qualifying. The lobby was set to fuel consumption 1x and no tire wear (iirc, not 100% on tires but I do know fuel was at 1x or 2x), and we spent 10-15 min qualifying with the best lap being a 56.xx lap. No one was close to emptying their tanks, but does the game treat fuel weight differently in qualifying vs racing? Also we had boost on strong in a 20 lap race and I was very surprised no one dropped a sub 56.xx time as boost usually gives the rear of the pack a huge advantage, but a crowded field could explain some of that. Does boost slow down the leaders? The guys consistently in front were decent drivers, not pro aliens but better than average.
 
Johnnypenso
How does your driving style overcome the physics of a heavier load? If a car is heavier and it's modeled in the game, you literally cannot accelerate as quickly, brake as short, nor corner with as much g-force as you can with a lighter fuel load.
Click to expand...

An aggressive driver will be more 'brake hard, turn and fire out' and there will be less thought on weight transfer. A less aggressive driver will be going for more of a rolling style so more trial braking more of a balanced throttle so less aggressive on weight transfer. So due to weight being larger in the race an aggressive driver has a harder time than the less aggressive driver in matching times :). Obviously the higher the skill level the less of the impact as they will adjust quicker but it does have an impact.
 
polizei
I'll explain more of my Miata example as it might help us understand qualifying. The lobby was set to fuel consumption 1x and no tire wear (iirc, not 100% on tires but I do know fuel was at 1x or 2x), and we spent 10-15 min qualifying with the best lap being a 56.xx lap. No one was close to emptying their tanks, but does the game treat fuel weight differently in qualifying vs racing? Also we had boost on strong in a 20 lap race and I was very surprised no one dropped a sub 56.xx time as boost usually gives the rear of the pack a huge advantage, but a crowded field could explain some of that. Does boost slow down the leaders? The guys consistently in front were decent drivers, not pro aliens but better than average.
Click to expand...
Yes, boost will slow the leaders.
If it's on "Strong" it can severely hamper the leaders top speed if last place is a long way behind.




Personally I've seen no evidence that there is any fuel weight difference accounted for between qualy and race of a non fuel deg. event.
I also don't believe there is a "getting tyres up to temp" period.

As for fuel weight being "modelled", I can categorically say (once again) that it is most certainly modelled and the literally 1000's of kms I've driven at 5x fuel deg. at practice, plus many 30 minute qualy periods and 30 min races, that it isn't even a question.
 
Tidgney
An aggressive driver will be more 'brake hard, turn and fire out' and there will be less thought on weight transfer. A less aggressive driver will be going for more of a rolling style so more trial braking more of a balanced throttle so less aggressive on weight transfer. So due to weight being larger in the race an aggressive driver has a harder time than the less aggressive driver in matching times :). Obviously the higher the skill level the less of the impact as they will adjust quicker but it does have an impact.
Click to expand...

Well explained, even though you did it well the first time :)
 
I noticed it today on Suzuka with the Corvette C7 road car. It seems to want to over steer or break out more in the race than during qualifying. SO is that a fuel weight thing? The race has no fuel consumption.

I also always find it much easier to improve my qualifying time after the race easily beating my best lap of a race where I was driving unhindered. First new qualifying lap beats my best lap from the race easily.

It could still be the effect of undivided attention during qualifying, no gap times to check or mirror to look into. I have the ghost turned off and usually do better when I hit retry so it's not displaying the real time difference to my previous lap. The less to compare the better I drive.
 
This has been discussed a few times. Think it might be cold tyres and a drop in race quality for all the cars to run smoothly.
 
Tassie_tiger
Yes, boost will slow the leaders.
If it's on "Strong" it can severely hamper the leaders top speed if last place is a long way behind.
Click to expand...
So you're saying PD completely reworked the boost algorithm because that's not how it worked in GT5 or GT6. In GT6 is was literal, the cars behind got more grip and more top speed, allowing them to catch up, whereas the leader maintained the same grip and top speed.

Personally I've seen no evidence that there is any fuel weight difference accounted for between qualy and race of a non fuel deg. event.
I also don't believe there is a "getting tyres up to temp" period.

As for fuel weight being "modelled", I can categorically say (once again) that it is most certainly modelled and the literally 1000's of kms I've driven at 5x fuel deg. at practice, plus many 30 minute qualy periods and 30 min races, that it isn't even a question.
Click to expand...
Do you have a ballpark idea of what the difference in lap times is on a specific track with empty and full tanks on fresh tires?
 
Just had an issue today on FIA manufacturers race at Suzuka, the Corvette C7 is my most driven car since releaes and this week I went with Chevy and today at Suzuka the Corvette drove nothing like it normally would. It felt very loose that I lost confidence in driving it and I even had to set it to TCS 2 when I normally drive it with TCS 0 and braking was inconsistent, I was averaging ~3 seconds slower than normal lap times and finished 13th. Yesterday the Gr3 650S did the same thing to me on Kyoto.
 
BSDShoes
Just had an issue today on FIA manufacturers race at Suzuka, the Corvette C7 is my most driven car since releaes and this week I went with Chevy and today at Suzuka the Corvette drove nothing like it normally would. It felt very loose that I lost confidence in driving it and I even had to set it to TCS 2 when I normally drive it with TCS 0 and braking was inconsistent, I was averaging ~3 seconds slower than normal lap times and finished 13th. Yesterday the Gr3 650S did the same thing to me on Kyoto.
Click to expand...

I had the same issue in the Suzuka race with my Ferrari 458 Gr.3 (which is similarly a car I drive often). I was having trouble just keeping the back from coming out, let alone putting down fast laps. I eventually chalked it up to doing so many Gr.1 laps in the past couple days -- the 919 Hybrid is a completely different beast...loads of grip, corners on a dime, can toss it around at high speeds without issue. Hard to go back to a car that requires a really light touch.

I mean I still sometimes suspect that the grip level of the tarmac on Suzuka is lower than the other circuits, but I have no evidence for that.
 
Sometimes, maybe 2 times since release day... everything feels really wrong. Then, I restart the game and everything is right again.
 
I think it's a combination of fuel load, cold tyres, dirty air and psychological pressure.
It feels like there is a greater effect in race c than a+b but still some effect in the latter 2. Maybe a half load of fuel in a+b races Vs c? Or possibly just cold tyre and dirty air effect?
I don't know but I think there's a difference, and enough other drivers do too.
 
Johnnypenso
So you're saying PD completely reworked the boost algorithm because that's not how it worked in GT5 or GT6. In GT6 is was literal, the cars behind got more grip and more top speed, allowing them to catch up, whereas the leader maintained the same grip and top speed.
Click to expand...
It's a good question in the sense that I really don't have that much experience racing with it, nor any hard evidence.
We have a weekly community night, and there is a bit of a tradition to run karts around the Nurb 24 at night (strong boost) for 1 lap as a final fun event.
My experience, and I think most in the lobby would agree, is that top speed is reduced for the front runners when the rest of the field is spread out.
But, as you can probably imagine, I haven't run that final straight in a kart without boost.

So if I think of it, I'll give that a go before Wednesdays races and then see how that compares to the boost race, and then report back.

Do you have a ballpark idea of what the difference in lap times is on a specific track with empty and full tanks on fresh tires?
Click to expand...
The best example would probably be in qualifying, when people really are running low fuel for little more than out, flying, and in laps.
But, of course, I have no replays of that to refer to.
A ball park figure I would put out would be to suggest it averages at roughly 1 second (for the cars I have most experience in - S-FR racing concept and McLaren Gr.4).

Renrag39
I think it's a combination of fuel load, cold tyres, dirty air and psychological pressure.
It feels like there is a greater effect in race c than a+b but still some effect in the latter 2. Maybe a half load of fuel in a+b races Vs c? Or possibly just cold tyre and dirty air effect?
I don't know but I think there's a difference, and enough other drivers do too.
Click to expand...
​
There's certainly a bit of pressure, and of course most also drive with a bit of a safety margin.
There's no restart button in a race like there is when qualifying.

I think you'll find there is "greater effect" in Race C because qualy is done with no tyre deg. but the race is held with it switched on.
And as soon as you switch on tyre deg (even at low levels) you'll notice a drop in lap times.
 
Nando deBem
Sometimes, maybe 2 times since release day... everything feels really wrong. Then, I restart the game and everything is right again.
Click to expand...

I was having one of those days so I gave up. Well actually only when there are any cars near me, in front or behind, it doesn't matter, my car is awful, just doesn't turn properly and is eager to spin too. End up miles behind and I can lap at the leader's pace until I get near a car again. It has to be something connection related causing all this.
 
NommyNom
yesterday at big willow with the caymans, I experienced some lagging (my screen showed me with 4 bar connection), could that be adding to the feeling of different grip? It felt like the car was bogging down and not wanting to accelerate but everyone's car was doing that. The lag lasted about 2 laps and I was around 1.5-2 sec slower, assuming it went away because the crowd spread out maybe? no idea, but after it went away, my lap times were back to about normal, maybe .2 seconds off from qualifier.
Click to expand...
Finally, someone has raised the genuine issue :-) .
Lag. Lobby lag. Distance from the server that makes a huge difference. And amount of cars ahead, on screen, which the server has to track over the long ping.

Eg my race times on a short track 1.28 sec in a gr3 car can vary between 1 and 3 seconds slower than my quali, depending on how the server feels. I find it incredibly frustrating, I can quali 2nd, yet the guy in 10th is faster than.me in the race. Easily faster. But I am in middle east and my ping is 120sec to Europe.
 
In the real world of racing qualifying on a some what clean track will give you a better time with the right tire pressure and compound With fewer laps To get that fast time. In a race with 10 to 20 cars track conditions change with every lap making the same turns laying rubber on the track changing traction. That is why you need to stay in a race line with out lose rubber being pick up by your tires . lose rubber pickup and tire ware feel almost the same.
 
Deddy
Finally, someone has raised the genuine issue :-) .
Lag. Lobby lag. Distance from the server that makes a huge difference. And amount of cars ahead, on screen, which the server has to track over the long ping.

Eg my race times on a short track 1.28 sec in a gr3 car can vary between 1 and 3 seconds slower than my quali, depending on how the server feels. I find it incredibly frustrating, I can quali 2nd, yet the guy in 10th is faster than.me in the race. Easily faster. But I am in middle east and my ping is 120sec to Europe.
Click to expand...
I thought that only FIA races were server-hosted.
I've read here several times that all other races (dailies, open lobbies) were relying on P2P technology.
As I'm based in Japan, I often race against "laggy" friends from EMEA or AM and I thought they just appeared laggy to me and thought it was kind of the same for them, as in me appearing laggy to them...
On the other hand I can't say I have been affected by this, but I don't do much out of open lobbies with friends anyways...
 
gkgamer
I thought that only FIA races were server-hosted.
I've read here several times that all other races (dailies, open lobbies) were relying on P2P technology.
As I'm based in Japan, I often race against "laggy" friends from EMEA or AM and I thought they just appeared laggy to me and thought it was kind of the same for them, as in me appearing laggy to them...
On the other hand I can't say I have been affected by this, but I don't do much out of open lobbies with friends anyways...
Click to expand...
What are you experiencing in a laggy race that is telling you of the problem?
 

Latest Posts

Back