Cars stepping out

[Seismica]

The collision physics need work, the fact that you can grind along the rails at 150mph and actually accelerate while doing it.

Or the fact that you can just, as you say, punch the gas on even the most powerful of cars, not loose control and speed off in a perfectly straight line. Still no tire deformation ect.

There are other games with more complete, more realistic physics/handling models.

In GT5 Prologue, if you tried that, the first wall impact would give you a collision penalty. When GT5 is released, there will be damage to deter people from doing this, and we have yet to see the improved physics engine, which could well and truly nullify your argument.

The point about some hardcore PC sims being more realistic, i agree. But none give you a gaming experience. GT combines realism with gaming and all round its untouchable on console. Forza 3 is ahead atm, it has the edge over prologue, but GT is unfinished.

You can actually win easier by wall grinding than by racing cleanly because you can go faster while wall grinding than you would be able to taking the turn properly.

If you can get around a corner faster by grinding the outside, you must be a very poor driver.

I would say more on the subject, but i'm only 19 and have yet to experience the rear end stepping out in real life (i have only ever driven a front wheel drive car. i don't own a driving license, so it wasn't for very long either), but i do see cars do it in Formula 1 all the time.

Aside from grid starts i don't see why this has any significance, because the tail steps out on the exits to corners unless you're careful anyway. So you're saying that the physics should implement a system that is only relevant once per race with a standing start (even thought i'd say about half of the races in GT5 will be rolling starts). It's completely pointless.

To replicate the physics of real life into a game, i don't think it is possible.

 

[Mubble]

Nice. What year, and what have you done to the engine? Mine is stock, with the standard CT26 turbo.

Mine's a '92 Rev2. I won't list all the mods here, cos I'm concious of spamming the thread, but take a look here:

http://www.mr2tuning.ch/index.php?cube=gallery&site=carpage&CarID=00340

I've not managed to identify the LSD that's fitted. All I know is that it's bloody agressive and the diff shudders when the gearbox is cold, so it's clearly not stock.

Any links to yours flying around?

 

[CodeRedR51]

When you launch a car in real life and get a large amount of wheel spin you car's rear end will slide to the left. It always moves to the left and i believe this is something to do with torque transfer through the differential or something.

I wouldn't say this is always the case. My turbocharged Miata never did that.

 

[QuantumReaction]

and here we go....

there is always something to complain about

+1 i had a feeling that this was going to break out into a argument warfare

And when there is that people like Simple SIM are always first to enlist

 

[vaioleto]

I laughed and cried at the same time when Simple sim said that you can get around a corner faster by wall grinding...

You can just tell those that have never touched a recent GT yet still pretend like they know what they're talking about, yet they'll always claim to have played GT1-17 all on 12 trillion percent completion.

 

[RedSuinit]

Mine's a '92 Rev2. I won't list all the mods here, cos I'm concious of spamming the thread, but take a look here:

http://www.mr2tuning.ch/index.php?cube=gallery&site=carpage&CarID=00340

I've not managed to identify the LSD that's fitted. All I know is that it's bloody agressive and the diff shudders when the gearbox is cold, so it's clearly not stock.

Any links to yours flying around?

http://www.midsouthspyders.com/dan/dan.htm You should be able to see that link.

 

[FyreandIce]

A right-hand-drive RWD car steps left on standing start wheelspin because of the crown in the road. Racetracks are not crowned, therefore this effect would not be seen on a track.

Wow, seriously?

Just leave now, you have NO idea what you are talking about.

 

[RedSuinit]

Wow, seriously?

Just leave now, you have NO idea what you are talking about.

He is partially correct, that may not be the ONLY reason, but it is one of the reasons. Now as for a car not stepping out on a track, that's not true because there are other causes for a car stepping out. Varying grip on the road due to an uneven distribution of weight from the left side of the car to the right is another cause. Also, something that people have said here in this thread, the LSD can have an affect on the car swinging out as well. Either way, there is no need for your caustic, and immature attitude. Please leave.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

A right-hand-drive RWD car steps left on standing start wheelspin because of the crown in the road. Racetracks are not crowned, therefore this effect would not be seen on a track.

You're right. Racetracks do not have crowns but they do have banks on a lot of tracks. I'm not talking about the kind of banks you keep your money in either.

Since I haven't played GT5, I won't comment on what they've achieved as far as car handling goes. What I will comment on is GT5P and how unrealistic the RWD cars handle. If you have the game, take a ZO6 or any other high powered RWD car out to Daytona. Park it on the bank, let go of the steering wheel and hit the gas. the rear tires will spin but the car will move forward with the back end being controlled by an unknown force.

Realistically, the rear of the car should've swung out to the low side of the bank. If you also have the Forza demo, try this with a RWD car. There is a section on the demo track where there is road crown on a run-off area. Park the RWD car and hit the accelerator, the rear end will swing out to the lower part every single time. Doesn't matter if the left or right side, it will realistically go to the lower part of the road.

There is a video on YouTube that showed the same flaw in GT4 when compared to Enthusia's more realistic physic system. I really hope people would stop referring to Kaz as a perfectionist because he isn't. The sounds, physics and AI are far from being perfect. The only thing near perfect about the GT series is the graphics. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Kaz and his team will be able to improve on other aspects of the game besides the graphics.

 

[RedSuinit]

You're right. Racetracks do not have crowns but they do have banks on a lot of tracks. I'm not talking about the kind of banks you keep your money in either.

Since I haven't played GT5, I won't comment on what they've achieved as far as car handling goes. What I will comment on is GT5P and how unrealistic the RWD cars handle. If you have the game, take a ZO6 or any other high powered RWD car out to Daytona. Park it on the bank, let go of the steering wheel and hit the gas. the rear tires will spin but the car will move forward with the back end being controlled by an unknown force.

Realistically, the rear of the car should've swung out to the low side of the bank. If you also have the Forza demo, try this with a RWD car. There is a section on the demo track where there is road crown on a run-off area. Park the RWD car and hit the accelerator, the rear end will swing out to the lower part every single time. Doesn't matter if the left or right side, it will realistically go to the lower part of the road.

There is a video on YouTube that showed the same flaw in GT4 when compared to Enthusia's more realistic physic system. I really hope people would stop referring to Kaz as a perfectionist because he isn't. The sounds, physics and AI are far from being perfect. The only thing near perfect about the GT series is the graphics. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Kaz and his team will be able to improve on other aspects of the game besides the graphics.

Yeah, OK.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

Yeah, OK.

Yeah, Ok what?? Is that all you have? Did I hurt your feelings with what I said about your daddy Kaz?

 

[MisterSTig]

Yeah, Ok what?? Is that all you have? Did I hurt your feelings with what I said about your daddy Kaz?

He is a perfectionist. If he wasn't, Gran Turismo would look and feel like Forza mixed with Need for Speed. Obviously this is one has been subjective since there are a lot of accounts that take control of a rear drift of a FR car. Some cars have limited slip differential, some has traction control, some will be affected by the temperature of surface and the compound/material of the rubber. This is a very minute problem compare to Forza major physics problem. I have good enough background to say Forza's physics and Shift's physics are garbage. Gran Turismo however can emulate most of realistic physics while there are some hitches. We have a real simulator that cost thousands of dollars that can replicate everything from aerodynamic grip, tire flex deformation, realistic weight transfer, etc. and Gran Turismo is the closest to replicate this in sort of "mass produced" way.

 

[CodeRedR51]

he is a perfectionist. If he wasn't, gran turismo would look and feel like forza mixed with need for speed.

qft.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

My "real simulator" has been in real cars. From 120HP Civics to 500WHP Turbocharged E36 M3s and I don't think the GT series is as good when it come to physics as some you guy are claiming it is. I understand there are many variables but the same will hold true for a limited slip RWD car when parked on a bank of Daytona. I don't care if it's 50 degrees or 90 degrees out and I also don't care if the car is running on race tires or all season tires, it will swing out to the lower part of the bank if you stomp on the gas and the rear wheels break loose with your hands off the steering wheel.

If he is a perfectionist then why are the AIs so freaking horrible? What? He can't figure out why race car drivers swerve out of the way to avoid hitting another car that lost control on the race track so he'll just make them follow in a line before he can figure that out? Give me a ****ing break. Some of you kids really to stop making excuses for the guy. I know he is a very likable guy and all and I think he is swell but a perfectionist he is NOT.

 

[MisterSTig]

My "real simulator" has been in real cars. From 120HP Civics to 500WHP Turbocharged E36 M3s and I don't think the GT series is as good when it come to physics as some you guy are claiming it is. I understand there are many variables but the same will hold true for a limited slip RWD car when parked on a bank of Daytona. I don't care if it's 50 degrees or 90 degrees out and I also don't care if the car is running on race tires or all season tires, it will swing out to the lower part of the bank if you stomp on the gas and the rear wheels break loose with your hands off the steering wheel.

If he is a perfectionist then why are the AIs so freaking horrible? What? He can't figure out why race car drivers swerve out of the way to avoid hitting another car that lost control on the race track so he'll just make them follow in a line before he can figure that out? Give me a ****ing break. Some of you kids really to stop making excuses for the guy. I know he is a very likable guy and all and I think he is swell but a perfectionist he is NOT.

I doubt you have raced in Daytona to take such claims and driving real cars isn't a simulator, it's real life. Polyphony Digital probably, by unanimous decision, decided that the driver in the car is holding the steering wheel which you are suppose to do. However, holding the steering wheel is again one of the many accounts that play in it and it also doesn't stop from the rear wheel spinning.

Also claiming that we are "kids" when you show absolute maturity? By the way if you haven't noticed, KY doesn't create the game by himself.

Perfectionist doesn't mean 100% accurate. It means you have a very wide gamut of possibilities with a lot of details in between. You should learn about that word, you shouldn't take it literally.

 

[FyreandIce]

This is a very minute problem compare to Forza major physics problem.

Yes, lets all compare a "small" physics issue with a large one.

News flash for you, BOTH games have major physics problems and on balance neither game is more realistic.

Also, on a completely flat and level surface cars DO crab to one side. On a banked surface cars crab DOWN the bank.

Both of those are facts.

The FACT that GT5 does not simulate these shows very flawed physics.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

I doubt you have raced in Daytona to take such claims and driving real cars isn't a simulator, it's real life. Polyphony Digital probably, by unanimous decision, decided that the driver in the car is holding the steering wheel which you are suppose to do. However, holding the steering wheel is again one of the many accounts that play in it and it also doesn't stop from the rear wheel spinning.

Also claiming that we are "kids" when you show absolute maturity? By the way if you haven't noticed, KY doesn't create the game by himself.

Perfectionist doesn't mean 100% accurate. It means you have a very wide gamut of possibilities with a lot of details in between. You should learn about that word, you shouldn't take it literally.

Nowhere in my post did I ever claim to have raced on Daytona did I? Read the post carefully next time. As for holding the wheel as something you're supposed to do. No kidding??? I thought you were supposed to drive drive and race without holding the wheel. Yeah, that was real mature of you taking a cheap shot at Forza. They've been able to achieve more in 3 games than PD ever has. Driving real cars isn't simulation but what is a simulator trying to simulate? Real life! If all you've driven is a simulator and have never done such things in real life, how do you know the simulation is correct?

As for the kids comment. I'm pretty sure a lot of members on here are kids because of that "how old are you" thread. Go look yourself. I also find it funny when I see 13 year old kids claiming they've been playing GT since the beginning. I've been playing since I was a fetus. Perfectionist doesn't mean 100% accurate but trying to make a real driving simulator should be pretty damn close to 100% accurate to real life. If not then everyone would be buying EA's crappy NFS series.

I never claimed to be mature but I know better than to blindly make excuses for someone time and time again to try and explain to myself why the AI, Sounds and physics hasn't improved any since the first GT game.





Edit: You know. I really don't know why I even waste my time on this forum full of close minded morons who will call anyone a troll if they say anything negative about the GT series or Kaz. Maybe I was extremely bored or something that's why I came back. LOL

 

[MisterSTig]

Nowhere in my post did I ever claim to have raced on Daytona did I? Read the post carefully next time. As for holding the wheel as something you're supposed to do. No kidding??? I thought you were supposed to drive drive and race without holding the wheel. Yeah, that was real mature of you taking a cheap shot at Forza. They've been able to achieve more in 3 games than PD ever has. Driving real cars isn't simulation but what is a simulator trying to simulate? Real life! If all you've driven is a simulator and have never done such things in real life, how do you know the simulation is correct?

As for the kids comment. I'm pretty sure a lot of members on here are kids because of that "how old are you" thread. Go look yourself. I also find it funny when I see 13 year old kids claiming they've been playing GT since the beginning. I've been playing since I was a fetus. Perfectionist doesn't mean 100% accurate but trying to make a real driving simulator should be pretty damn close to 100% accurate to real life. If not then everyone would be buying EA's crappy NFS series.

I never claimed to be mature but I know better than to blindly make excuses for someone time and time again to try and explain to myself why the AI, Sounds and physics hasn't improved any since the first GT game.





Edit: You know. I really don't know why I even waste my time on this forum full of close minded morons who will call anyone a troll if they say anything negative about the GT series or Kaz. Maybe I was extremely bored or something that's why I came back. LOL

I don't even have to say anything to disprove your credibility.

But based on what you said.

1. You have no driver's license.
2. You have 0 knowledge on automobiles.
3. You have a comprehension skill of a 10 year old.
4. You are 10.
5. You are a Forza fanboy.


You didn't say you driven in Daytona but you claimed that if you do such thing in the track it will happen therefore it leads to assuming you have but truth is you haven't. Refer to point 1.

You mentioned about the driver not holding the steering wheel while doing a full throttle run but the driver in any GT game is holding it. Refer to points 2,3,4 and 5.

Yes but you contradicted yourself when you said "my real simulator is driving..." which simulator is not real life or vice versa. Refer to point 3.

Yes the fact that Forza 2 and 3 has the same physics and graphics quality and Polyphony released GT4, Tourist Trophy, Gran Turismo for PSP, GT:5, in that time with leap advancement in one. Refer to point 5.

Yes I have done it in real life. I have more real racing experience than you probably done in Forza. Not only that but I tune cars for a living for Subaru Team.

The rest, refer to point 1,2,3,4 and 5.

 

[Leonidae]

I think that this thread has surpassed it's expected life and is now degrading into Internet pissing contest that isn't related to the original question.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

I don't even have to say anything to disprove your credibility.

But based on what you said.

1. You have no driver's license.
2. You have 0 knowledge on automobiles.
3. You have a comprehension skill of a 10 year old.
4. You are 10.
5. You are a Forza fanboy.


You didn't say you driven in Daytona but you claimed that if you do such thing in the track it will happen therefore it leads to assuming you have but truth is you haven't. Refer to point 1.

You mentioned about the driver not holding the steering wheel while doing a full throttle run but the driver in any GT game is holding it. Refer to points 2,3,4 and 5.

Yes but you contradicted yourself when you said "my real simulator is driving..." which simulator is not real life or vice versa. Refer to point 3.

Yes the fact that Forza 2 and 3 has the same physics and graphics quality and Polyphony released GT4, Tourist Trophy, Gran Turismo for PSP, GT:5, in that time with leap advancement in one. Refer to point 5.

Yes I have done it in real life. I have more real racing experience than you probably done in Forza. Not only that but I tune cars for a living for Subaru Team.

The rest, refer to point 1,2,3,4 and 5.

I'm not going to waste much time with you. All 5 of your points couldn't be further from the truth. Now you're just assuming things out of anger because someone said something negative about your precious GT. Yeah, I'm a Forza fanboy because I pointed out something that Forza does better than GT. See why I think this website is full of closeminded morons who will call anyone a troll if they say something negative about GT? It's because of people like you!

I see you're from LA? Which Subaru team do you tune cars for? I'd love to know the name of the team or are you just making things up now to try and prove to a bunch of people on an internet forum that you know more than another person on said internet forum? I hope you're not BSing because I will bust you out if you are.

 

[Leonidae]

Get a room, you two. That is no longer related to th topic at hand.

 

[MisterSTig]

I'm not going to waste much time with you. All 5 of your points couldn't be further from the truth. Now you're just assuming things out of anger because someone said something negative about your precious GT. See why I think this website is full of closeminded morons who will call anyone a troll if they say something negative about GT? It's because of people like you!

I see you're from LA? Which Subaru team do you tune cars for? I'd love to know the name of the team or are you just making things up now to try and prove to a bunch of people on an internet forum that you know more than another person on said internet forum? I hope you're not BSing because I will bust you out if you are.

I love how you keep contradicting yourself.

"I'm not going to waste much time with you."
Yet you did

"full of closeminded morons"
Did you read your post?

"things out of anger because someone said something negative about your precious GT"
In what shape or form did I type there revealing a little anger? When did I say GT was
precious and peferct?

"Yeah, I'm a Forza fanboy because I pointed out something that Forza does better than GT."
This goes back to your quote "full of closeminded morons" which you contradict yourself.

"will call anyone a troll if they say something negative about GT"
Who said you are a troll? You assume we did, therefore you are guilty.

I do not need to prove to a "closeminded moron" snotty nose 10 year old without a license that I work for Subaru.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

You wanna join us? You can be in the middle.

 

[Leonidae]

Thanks but no thanks. I don't play with strangers.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

I love how you keep contradicted yourself.

"I'm not going to waste much time with you."
Yet you did

"full of closeminded morons"

Not going to waste much time is NOT the same as not going to waste any time. Maybe you should improve your comprehending skill? Also, it's "keep contradicting", not "keep contradicted".

You didn't answer my question. Tuner for Subaru are you? What race division? What kind of tuning? I'm very curious to know.






Edit: Just noticed your edit to your post.

"I do not need to prove to a "closeminded moron" snotty nose 10 year old without a license that I work for Subaru. "

This sounds a lot like anger and also a lot of BS to me. You don't work for Subaru so stop making **** up. You're not answering because you know there is a big chance you will get busted. I've dealt with kids like you before. Nothing new.

 

[MisterSTig]

Not going to waste much time is NOT the same as not going to waste any time. Maybe you should improve your comprehending skill? Also, it's "keep contradicting", not "keep contradicted".

You didn't answer my question. Tuner for Subaru are you? What race division? What kind of tuning? I'm very curious to know.

"I really don't know why I even waste my time on this forum"

iPhone does not help with typo and word guessing.

Yes, dealing with yourself everyday is hard. I'm not answering because it would be a desperate call
for a grown man to prove what he does for a living to reply to a kid.

It's like proving a 5 year old that you have a car just for the sake of winning the argument.

 

[FyreandIce]

"I really don't know why I even waste my time on this forum"

iPhone does not help with typo and word guessing.

Yes, dealing with yourself everyday is hard. I'm not answering because it would be a desperate call
for a grown man to prove what he does for a living to reply to a kid.

It's like proving a 5 year old that you have a car just for the sake of winning the argument.

Stop dodging.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

Thanks for showing your true colors. I love how kids will make elaborate claims on the internet to win an argument then say something stupid like "I don't have to prove anything" when asked about their claim. Then they try to play it off like I they don't have to prove anything in order to win an argument. Why bring up what you do in the first place? Just to let you know. I'm the head tuner for the Ferrari racing team.

BTW. The spelling of the word was correct. Just that you used the wrong form of the word in the sentence.

 

[cicohipe]

I think it's pretty clear to anybody still reading this that MisterStig is full of crap Quiet_Storm. I have to agree, i think discussion (or lack there of) of this topic has died long ago. The truth is that a number of people on this forum are closed minded GT fanboys, and those same close minded people are also very outspoken and so they appear to be the majority, when infact there are a large number of intelligent members and useful topics on this site.

The disappointing thing is topics seem to be all too easily hijacked and turned into a pissing contest.

EDIT: Mods feel free to lock this up

 

[FyreandIce]

I think it's pretty clear to anybody still reading this that MisterStig is full of crap Quiet_Storm. I have to agree, i think discussion (or lack there of) of this topic has died long ago. The truth is that a number of people on this forum are closed minded GT fanboys, and those same close minded people are also very outspoken and so they appear to be the majority, when infact there are a large number of intelligent members and useful topics on this site.

The disappointing thing is topics seem to be all too easily hijacked and turned into a pissing contest.

Agreed.

It is a shame that people around here take any comment against Gran Turismo as a personal insult...