Chromed Murcielago...!

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GT4_Rule
how many % of buyers of Murcielago, Bugatti Veyron, F40 and F50 do you think actually go to track every weekend and do 200+ mph and push the car to the limit? Supercars are just bragging items, they rarely get pushed to the limit

Enzos:
enzo_20051103_004.jpg

enzo_20040306_002.jpg

enzo_20040216_002.jpg

ferrari_enzo_crash_004.jpg


Murcielagos:
murcielago_20060122_002.jpg

murcielago_20050801_004.jpg

murcielago_20050731_008.jpg

murcielago_20050616_001.jpg

murcielago_20040830_007.jpg

murcielago_20040818_004.jpg

murcielago_20040618_003.jpg


F40s:
f40_062402_01.jpg

f40_052702_04.jpg

f40_20041210_002.jpg

f40_040202_004.jpg

f40_040202_002.jpg


F50s:
f50_092602_001.jpg

f50_20030227_001.jpg

f50_092902_003.jpg

f50_040202_002.jpg


What was your question again?


GT4_Rule
I think a better discussion would be that how supercars eats up gas and return so little to the world in terms of financial contribution (freights contribute - they ship goods. Commuters contribute - they help build economy. Supercars don't contribute - they eat up excessive amount of gas.)

A moment ago you said they weren't driven anywhere. So they "eat up excessive amount of gas" how?

Does someone purchasing a $1,000,000 car not return $1,000,000 to the world, to pay the people who designed and built it?


GT4_Rule
Is everyone picking on that Murcielago because its gonna be 50 Cent's new ride soon? How about it was going to become Bill Gate's new ride? I don't think many people will write posts criticizing it eh?

Anyways, who cares if he paints it in chrome, its our own taste and freedom right?

[...]

Its his money, its his car, its his paint.

And it's my opinion that it looks crap.

Am I not allowed to have that opinion now?
 
No, they are (were) F40s.

"Just cars"... Pffft!
 
Any time a limited-run car is destroyed, it is a shame. It's not like a Honda Accord. If you total one of those, you're guaranteed that about 20 billion more will be on the road next year. Each time an Enzo, F40, or F50 is destroyed, one less exists, and will never be replaced.
 
Famine
No, they are (were) F40s.

"Just cars"... Pffft!

Once again - I'm looking for that "Agree" button...

(NO Famine, you're not getting anymore points from me, you and Anchor man are spoiled enough as it is !...)
 
Yes, they are JUST cars, what is more important, a car, or a life? Besides, the less there are out there, the more they are worth!
 
FireEmblem62
Yes, they are JUST cars, what is more important, a car, or a life?

Err... Whose life? :D

FireEmblem62
Besides, the less there are out there, the more they are worth!

And the less likely I am to get one!
 
Famine
Enzos:

Murcielagos:
murcielago_20060122_002.jpg

murcielago_20050801_004.jpg


What was your question again?


A moment ago you said they weren't driven anywhere. So they "eat up excessive amount of gas" how?

Does someone purchasing a $1,000,000 car not return $1,000,000 to the world, to pay the people who designed and built it?


And it's my opinion that it looks crap.

Am I not allowed to have that opinion now?

First, let me say that you put too many pictures. I get your point.

Isn't the 1st and the 2nd Murcielago chromed eh? :rolleyes:

Yeah, they guzzle gas, when they're actually being driven. I said they don't get driven to 200+mph all the time!! Yeah, there's all those accidents, but how many of them is that out of all the supercars out there in the world? They all guzzle gas worse than any other car when they're being driven, no matter how fast.

And I never said you can't have your opinion. :rolleyes: Please read it twice if you don't understand. I said its his car, its his money, its his paint!! He does what he wants, we can complain about it, he's not gonna change just because some people complained.

And no, I don't think the $1 million that people paid to get into these cars pay off any good to the world. Yes it may go toward the designers and the manufacturers but accidents, excessive amount of fuel eaten up by these cars, and the pointlessness of going 0-60 in 3.3seconds is what saddens me. Why put 1001hp in a car, when all it needs is 500hp to get to speed? I think this whole horsepower war is pointless and it will just lead to more accidents due to more power (people speed when they have even more power than they need...) and the increased fuel consumption is going to hurt the environment and our next generation.
 
How many exotics are on the road? Now, how many SUVs are on the road? End of discussion.
 
kylehnat
How many exotics are on the road? Now, how many SUVs are on the road? End of discussion.

OOHHHH Exactly.

Also whats the point of having 1000hp? Well because you can. If 500hp is good then 100 must be twice as good. It's not as if anyone who buys the car actually drives it frequently (though they could). Supercars are designed to be pointlessly fast. The chrome fits in with the pointless part but not with the fast.
 
kylehnat
How many exotics are on the road? Now, how many SUVs are on the road? End of discussion.

be more patient and thoughtful, not ending the discussion when you feel other are not with you in opinions.

alright, if you say you want to end the discussion, then fine. I don't mind but be more considerate next time dude.
 
GT4_Rule
First, let me say that you put too many pictures. I get your point.

Isn't the 1st and the 2nd Murcielago chromed eh? :rolleyes:

Nope - they're silver.

GT4_Rule
Yeah, they guzzle gas, when they're actually being driven. I said they don't get driven to 200+mph all the time!! Yeah, there's all those accidents, but how many of them is that out of all the supercars out there in the world? They all guzzle gas worse than any other car when they're being driven, no matter how fast.

And no, I don't think the $1 million that people paid to get into these cars pay off any good to the world. Yes it may go toward the designers and the manufacturers but accidents, excessive amount of fuel eaten up by these cars, and the pointlessness of going 0-60 in 3.3seconds is what saddens me.

You're all over the place here.

If someone buys a $5,000 car which gets 50mpg (at $3/gall) and drives it 5,000 miles a year, they put $5,000 into the economy in one hit and $300 a year.

If someone buys a $1,000,000 car which gets 5mpg and drives it 1,000 miles a year, they put $1,000,000 into the economy in one hit and $600 a year.

So... why is 200 times the money in one go and twice the amount per year doing less "good to the world"?

As an additional, can you tell me what the minimum 0-62mph time I'm allowed in my car is?


GT4_Rule
They all guzzle gas worse than any other car when they're being driven, no matter how fast.

Would you like another guess?

2005 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish S - 11mpg urban/17mpg extra-urban
2005 Bugatti Veyron 6/10
2005 Chevrolet C6 Corvette - 19/28
2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 10/20
2006 Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe - 12/20
2003 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale - 10/16
2005 Ford GT - 14/21
2004 Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster - 9/13
2003 Lamborghini Gallardo - 10/17
2004 Porsche 911 GT2 - 13/20
2004 Porsche 911 GT3 - 15/23

2003 Hummer H2 -/10

One fairly popular SUV outclasses all of the supercars bar the Veyron - and probably sells more than all supercars combined...

Edit: And so it does...
Ferrari Enzo Ferrari - 400 TOTAL
Maserati MC12 - 50 TOTAL
Lamborghini - 1,300 (400 Murceilago/900 Gallardo) per year
Bugatti Veyron - 300 TOTAL
McLaren F1 - 300 TOTAL
Ford GT - 2,600 TOTAL

Hummer H2 - 36,000 PER YEAR.


GT4_Rule
Why put 1001hp in a car, when all it needs is 500hp to get to speed?

The Veyron's four turbochargers need more than 500hp just to run. With a frontal area of 23 square feet and a Cd of 0.36 it needs more than 950hp to even approach its electronically-limited top speed of 252mph

It all depends what speed you're willing to allow. I'm guessing you wouldn't allow 250mph, for some reason. What would you allow? 200mph? 150mph? Or whatever the regional speed limit is?


GT4_Rule
I think this whole horsepower war is pointless and it will just lead to more accidents due to more power (people speed when they have even more power than they need...)

Fastest roads have the lowest accident rate per mile. Fact.

GT4_Rule
and the increased fuel consumption is going to hurt the environment

The total of all the road vehicles on Earth is responsible for just 0.2% of global carbon dioxide load. One cargo ship beats 2 million (average) cars. In fact I did a "beermat" calculation once which put the CO2 load of an average car per year at "about even" with a single piece of imported electronic goods. How many Japanese TVs do you own, hmm?

GT4_Rule
and our next generation.

Did the 150mph Jaguar E-Type hurt my generation in some way? Doesn't much look like it to me.

GT4_Rule
And I never said you can't have your opinion. :rolleyes: Please read it twice if you don't understand. I said its his car, its his money, its his paint!! He does what he wants, we can complain about it, he's not gonna change just because some people complained.

And who is asking him to change it?

*reads thread*

Nobody. We are merely passing opinion that it looks bobbins. You are complaining about this. Why?
 
Famine
Nope - they're silver.[\quote]

Does it matter if its silver, or chrome....:rolleyes: its the same bloody color!

You're all over the place here.[\quote]

oh really

If someone buys a $5,000 car which gets 50mpg (at $3/gall) and drives it 5,000 miles a year, they put $5,000 into the economy in one hit and $300 a year.

If someone buys a $1,000,000 car which gets 5mpg and drives it 1,000 miles a year, they put $1,000,000 into the economy in one hit and $600 a year.

So... why is 200 times the money in one go and twice the amount per year doing less "good to the world"?[\quote]

I won't argue with that one.

As an additional, can you tell me what the minimum 0-62mph time I'm allowed in my car is?[\quote]

I never said that minimum time should be set. All I said was that going to 0-60 in 3.3seconds isn't necessary. Don't be too extreme.

Would you like another guess?[\quote]
Guess of what?

One fairly popular SUV outclasses all of the supercars bar the Veyron - and probably sells more than all supercars combined...


Edit: And so it does...
Ferrari Enzo Ferrari - 400 TOTAL
Maserati MC12 - 50 TOTAL
Lamborghini - 1,300 (400 Murceilago/900 Gallardo) per year
Bugatti Veyron - 300 TOTAL
McLaren F1 - 300 TOTAL
Ford GT - 2,600 TOTAL

Hummer H2 - 36,000 PER YEAR.[\quote]

Yes, yes....

The Veyron's four turbochargers need more than 500hp just to run. With a frontal area of 23 square feet and a Cd of 0.36 it needs more than 950hp to even approach its electronically-limited top speed of 252mph[\quote]

If it needs more than 500hp to run than why put it on? Pointless.

It all depends what speed you're willing to allow. I'm guessing you wouldn't allow 250mph, for some reason. What would you allow? 200mph? 150mph? Or whatever the regional speed limit is?[\quote]
Maybe, the electronically limited 155mph of MB, BMW and Audi is the best?

Fastest roads have the lowest accident rate per mile. Fact.[\quote]
Because not many people see each other if someone's going at 100mph! And the road and the general space is wider too. City streets? Stop and go traffic, stoplights, intersections. Don't compare city streets and highways.

The total of all the road vehicles on Earth is responsible for just 0.2% of global carbon dioxide load. One cargo ship beats 2 million cars.[\quote]
Then why do we have all the emission testing? And why are we in such a hurry and desperation to reduce emissions?

Did the 150mph Jaguar E-Type hurt my generation in some way? Doesn't much look like it to me.[\quote]
You're totally off mark there.

And who is asking him to change it?


*reads thread*[\quote]

. We are merely passing opinion that it looks bobbins. You are complaining about this. Why?[\quote]
Am I complaining? I'm defending his choices, why would I complain about his choice?

Edit: I screwed up on the quoting....
And I only own one Japanese TV.
 
GT4_Rule
Does it matter if its silver, or chrome....:rolleyes: its the same bloody color!

No it isn't. Silver is silver. Chrome is much more reflective.

Just like purple and indigo are different colours.


GT4_Rule
I never said that minimum time should be set. All I said was that going to 0-60 in 3.3seconds isn't necessary. Don't be too extreme.

If you class 3.3 seconds as unnecessary, then surely you have a point where you'd class the acceleration as necessary. Where is this point?

GT4_Rule
Guess of what?

You said that ALL Supercars are the most fuel-inefficient cars all the time. I pointed out that this isn't true. Your response:

GT4_Rule
Yes, yes...

Your "guess" about supercars' fuel economy was wrong. I was asking if you wanted another one.

GT4_Rule
If it needs more than 500hp to run than why put it on? Pointless.

Not really - they give the remaining 500hp, reliably, when running.

You don't think VAG, who are making a HUGE loss on each car, would put four turbochargers on if there was no need for them, do you?


GT4_Rule
Maybe, the electronically limited 155mph of MB, BMW and Audi is the best?

So what's wrong with driving at 156mph if 155mph is okay?

What if I wanted to take my car to a track?


GT4_Rule
Because not many people see each other if someone's going at 100mph! And the road and the general space is wider too. City streets? Stop and go traffic, stoplights, intersections. Don't compare city streets and highways.

What?

You said that :


GT4_Rule
I think this whole horsepower war is pointless and it will just lead to more accidents due to more power (people speed when they have even more power than they need...)

If you're in stop and go traffic, how are you going to use the power to speed?

You aren't. You're only going to use the power on fast roads, such as Highways. Where there are less accidents per mile than any other type of road. So how is more power going to lead to more accidents?

The average car sold in the UK today has 105hp. There are fewer accidents per car per mile now than 40 years ago, when 105hp was some crazy, fabled, promised-land. The Ford Anglia - the truely average car of 1965 - had only 45hp. So again, how does more power lead to more accidents?


GT4_Rule
Then why do we have all the emission testing? And why are we in such a hurry and desperation to reduce emissions?

Because environmentalism is "cool". If politicians care about trees and hamstring cars, while building yet another coal-fired power station, they get re-elected.

GT4_Rule
You're totally off mark there.

Why? You said that these fast cars hurt future generations. The E-Type was the first road car to hit 150mph. How did that hurt my generation compared to the previous one?

GT4_Rule
Edit: I screwed up on the quoting...

You don't need to put color=black tags in. Black is the default font colour. You left several color tags open because of this.

GT4_Rule
And I only own one Japanese TV.

Then you are responsible for as much carbon dioxide load as a single car per year, just by owning it (not to mention stereos, washing machines, fridges, your PS2...). Imagine what happens when you turn it on and the electricity comes down the pipes from the power station...
 
GT4_Rule
be more patient and thoughtful, not ending the discussion when you feel other are not with you in opinions.

alright, if you say you want to end the discussion, then fine. I don't mind but be more considerate next time dude.
No!! My opinion is the only one that counts! ;)

All I mean is this: (and Famine touched on this, too)

How many exotics do you see running around? I've lived in this apartment for 6 months, on a farily busy street, and the most "exotic" car I've seen is a sparkly Ferrari F430. One. That's it. How many SUV's have I seen? I lost count at infinity. My point is that the total number of the most wasteful supercars in the world doesn't even come close to eclipsing the number of SUV's in the Seattle area, let alone the entire country (and the world). They're hardly to blame for our insane oil consumption.
 
Famine
No it isn't. Silver is silver. Chrome is much more reflective.

Just like purple and indigo are different colours.


Oh ok, then. So I guess silver isn't reflective enough :rolleyes: then try painting both chrome and silver in solid and see if "more reflection" of chrome is all that necessary. Go. Try. It won't make a difference, they are both shiny.

If you class 3.3 seconds as unnecessary, then surely you have a point where you'd class the acceleration as necessary. Where is this point?

Maybe, not too extreme...6-7 seconds? I don't drive so I don't know how fast that exactly is but I do know what I'm saying because my dad used to work at Toyota.

Your "guess" about supercars' fuel economy was wrong. I was asking if you wanted another one.

Sure, they are inefficient. Btw, your figure about Hummer is right, but Murcielago gets 9 mpg city as said in Road & Track. Enzo gets around 8 mpg. Gallardo gets 10. So is it that far from Hummer now?

Not really - they give the remaining 500hp, reliably, when running.

Yes, they give out the remaining 500 horses, but if it consumes that much power then I wouldn't bother putting it on and wasting more fuels by requiring 500hp to run.

You don't think VAG, who are making a HUGE loss on each car, would put four turbochargers on if there was no need for them, do you?


Oh, maybe just for show. Thats what supercars are all about - show.

So what's wrong with driving at 156mph if 155mph is okay?

Well you are 1mph over the speed limit :sly:

What if I wanted to take my car to a track?


Sure, take it to the track then.

What?

You said that :


If you're in stop and go traffic, how are you going to use the power to speed?

Well, what if you're really bothered by all the stoplights, and want to just zip throught the next one. So you speed, trying to catch the light. It turns yellow. Of course, if you're in a 500hp M5 then you must be going pretty fast by then so you can't stop. Then another motorist who feels the same as you, irritated by the continuous onslaught of the stoplights, starts accelerating from the light before it turns green. I've seen it, just now, since I was walking home from the public library where I posted my previous two posts. I counted maybe 15 people doing what I mentioned above, because they were in such a hurry.

You aren't. You're only going to use the power on fast roads, such as Highways. Where there are less accidents per mile than any other type of road. So how is more power going to lead to more accidents?

In the city - read above.

The average car sold in the UK today has 105hp. There are fewer accidents per car per mile now than 40 years ago, when 105hp was some crazy, fabled, promised-land. The Ford Anglia - the truely average car of 1965 - had only 45hp. So again, how does more power lead to more accidents?


Yes...if what you claim is true then why is there so much more crashes counted in here than before...? I don't know about UK, and I never will, because I don't live there, but guess what? Roads in UK are more likely to cause accidents than Canada since your roads are so narrow. Also, take into consideration that back in 1965, there weren't airbags - or ABS or Lane Departure Warning or for that matter, electronics in the car! Those safety devices helped reduce accident rates by a lot, but that gain made by those devices are being offset by crashes related to speeding. This bridge we have in Greater Vancouver, called Patullo Bridge, have had more speed-related deaths than any other bridges in our area. Why? Because people are reckless. 140hp in a Cavalier is enough to take you to over 100km/h and try crashing from that speed. Now take a 500hp M5 and do the same. You'll probably end up with more speed than the Cavalier in the same stretch of road. That's why more power = more accidents.

Because environmentalism is "cool". If politicians care about trees and hamstring cars, while building yet another coal-fired power station, they get re-elected.

You're absolutely right there.

Why? You said that these fast cars hurt future generations. The E-Type was the first road car to hit 150mph. How did that hurt my generation compared to the previous one?

Yes it did....look at all the people who lost their lives before the manditory safety requirements were passed in the US. All the family members suffered and went though hard times, because their kids were speeding. If your car goes faster and faster and faster, then there's going to be even more severe accidents. If all cars only went 30mph, then how would there be any life-threatening accidents? Maybe rear-ending, but that doesn't necessary kill. But if you crash at 120mph on a M5 then yes you will likely to die, therefore hurting future generations because first your family will suffer. There will be one less person to be out in the society working or contributing. Governments will be pressured by locals to improve the road (that's the case with Patullo, its not the bridge, its the people, but locals have been pushing for the replacement of the bridge.) where the crash took place, thus spending millions that could have been spent elsewhere, such as education. Education is the key to raising responsible kids.

You don't need to put color=black tags in. Black is the default font colour. You left several color tags open because of this.

Alright. Are you accusing me by saying that You left several color tags open because of this? I don't quite get the meaning.

Then you are responsible for as much carbon dioxide load as a single car per year, just by owning it (not to mention stereos, washing machines, fridges, your PS2...). Imagine what happens when you turn it on and the electricity comes down the pipes from the power station...

Yes, I'm responsible...when I only own one Japanese TV eh? They don't assemble them here too? :irked: And guess what, my dad's car is an American car. My portable music player is iPod. Our washing machine is Kenmore. Our fridge is Kenmore also. Our stereo, we brought it along with us when I moved from Japan 5 years ago, on a plane, not a ship. My computer is Compaq. Do you call Kenmore, Compaq, Apple, and Oldsmobile Japanese stuff?

Edit: jeez...I still can't seem to get that Quote thing right. I still can't do it the way Famine does it...
 
GT4_Rule
Famine
If you class 3.3 seconds as unnecessary, then surely you have a point where you'd class the acceleration as necessary. Where is this point?

Maybe, not too extreme...6-7 seconds? I don't drive so I don't know how fast that exactly is but I do know what I'm saying because my dad used to work at Toyota.

Last, confusing, sentence aside, you think that anything faster than "6-7 seconds" to 60mph is "unnecessary". Why this particular figure? Why not 5.5?

GT4_Rule
Famine
Your "guess" about supercars' fuel economy was wrong. I was asking if you wanted another one.

Sure, they are inefficient. Btw, your figure about Hummer is right, but Murcielago gets 9 mpg city as said in Road & Track. Enzo gets around 8 mpg. Gallardo gets 10. So is it that far from Hummer now?

I posted the Murcielago's 9mpg city economy. But the Hummer managed 10.7 extra-urban, where cars are more efficient than in stop-start city traffic. 10mpg city > 10mpg extra-urban.

GT4_Rule
Famine
Not really - they give the remaining 500hp, reliably, when running.

Yes, they give out the remaining 500 horses, but if it consumes that much power then I wouldn't bother putting it on and wasting more fuels by requiring 500hp to run.

You don't seem to understand how turbo/superchargers function.

They are power amplifiers. They take a little of the engine's power and make more as a result. The W16 in the Veyron can probably pump out all 1000hp by itself, but it'd blow up every few hundred miles. VAG supply cars with a warranty, so this isn't very helpful to them, to have flagship, million-dollar cars expiring at every corner. So, to make the engines function reliably, they put turbos on which suck some power, but blow out more.

As a comparison, the Ford GT's single supercharger needs 150hp to function.


GT4_Rule
Famine
You don't think VAG, who are making a HUGE loss on each car, would put four turbochargers on if there was no need for them, do you?

Oh, maybe just for show. Thats what supercars are all about - show.

Nope - it's for reliable power, as I said above.

GT4_Rule
Famine
So what's wrong with driving at 156mph if 155mph is okay?

Well you are 1mph over the speed limit

Actually, you're 86mph over the UK speed limit, but still driving legally in Northern Territories.

This doesn't address the point. Why is 155mph okay in your eyes, but, say 175mph is "excessive"?


GT4_Rule
Famine
What if I wanted to take my car to a track?

Sure, take it to the track then.

With a 155mph limiter on it? That'd make Dottinger Hohe dull.

GT4_Rule
Famine
If you're in stop and go traffic, how are you going to use the power to speed?

Well, what if you're really bothered by all the stoplights, and want to just zip throught the next one. So you speed, trying to catch the light. It turns yellow. Of course, if you're in a 500hp M5 then you must be going pretty fast by then so you can't stop.

Apparently 500hp M5s don't come with brakes these days...

Poor road discipline is the driver's fault, not the car's.

A 250mph Bugatti Veyron can come to rest from its top speed in a shorter distance than my car can come to rest from its 141mph top speed, and it sure as hell can stop quicker from an illegal-in-the-UK 100mph than I can from a legal-in-the-UK 70mph.

Fast cars stop well.


GT4_Rule
140hp in a Cavalier is enough to take you to over 100km/h and try crashing from that speed. Now take a 500hp M5 and do the same. You'll probably end up with more speed than the Cavalier in the same stretch of road.

And stop sooner, with better brakes and stickier tyres.

GT4_Rule
Famine
You don't need to put color=black tags in. Black is the default font colour. You left several color tags open because of this.

Alright. Are you accusing me by saying that You left several color tags open because of this? I don't quite get the meaning.

I'm just telling you that's why your quoting was screwy - you had open-ended tags. The extra color=black tags were the cause of it - and they're unnecessary, since the default font colour IS black.

GT4_Rule
Famine
Then you are responsible for as much carbon dioxide load as a single car per year, just by owning it (not to mention stereos, washing machines, fridges, your PS2...). Imagine what happens when you turn it on and the electricity comes down the pipes from the power station...

Yes, I'm responsible...when I only own one Japanese TV eh? They don't assemble them here too? :irked: And guess what, my dad's car is an American car. My portable music player is iPod. Our washing machine is Kenmore. Our fridge is Kenmore also. Our stereo, we brought it along with us when I moved from Japan 5 years ago, on a plane, not a ship. My computer is Compaq. Do you call Kenmore, Compaq, Apple, and Oldsmobile Japanese stuff?

I don't believe I did, no. What I said was:

Famine
One cargo ship beats 2 million (average) cars. In fact I did a "beermat" calculation once which put the CO2 load of an average car per year at "about even" with a single piece of imported electronic goods.

So I don't know why you mention your domestic products when I specified imported ones.


You brought your stereo over by plane, you say? Would that be a plane which produces 500,000 times more carbon dioxide in a transatlantic flight than an average car does every year, and places it neatly at up 45,000 feet where it'd do more damage than the 500,000 cars?

Just checking.
 
Famine
Last, confusing, sentence aside, you think that anything faster than "6-7 seconds" to 60mph is "unnecessary". Why this particular figure? Why not 5.5?


Why this figure, don't ask me. But 6-7 seconds seems fairly slow but not slow enough to take forever.

Famine
I posted the Murcielago's 9mpg city economy. But the Hummer managed 10.7 extra-urban, where cars are more efficient than in stop-start city traffic. 10mpg city > 10mpg extra-urban.

Then why not post the urban figures for Hummer also?

Famine
You don't seem to understand how turbo/superchargers function.[/COLOR]
Famine


They are power amplifiers. They take a little of the engine's power and make more as a result. The W16 in the Veyron can probably pump out all 1000hp by itself, but it'd blow up every few hundred miles. VAG supply cars with a warranty, so this isn't very helpful to them, to have flagship, million-dollar cars expiring at every corner. So, to make the engines function reliably, they put turbos on which suck some power, but blow out more.

As a comparison, the Ford GT's single supercharger needs 150hp to function.


Yes, thank you for the tutorial, but I do know how they function. Why bother putting them on when two of them does the job? As I said, quad-turbo sounds cooler than twin-turbo or single-turbo.

Famine
Nope - it's for reliable power, as I said above.

Yes...

Famine
Actually, you're 86mph over the UK speed limit, but still driving legally in Northern Territories.
Famine


This doesn't address the point. Why is 155mph okay in your eyes, but, say 175mph is "excessive"?


Well, there's different speed limits, but I'm not talking Northern Territories here. And 175mph is 20mph over 155mph. Mathpower. Try crashing from 175mph, then 155. There will be some difference.

Famine
With a 155mph limiter on it? That'd make Dottinger Hohe dull.

Yes, it won't make any difference, because all cars will have 155mph speed limiter in my world. See who can take advantage of the wind draft.

Famine
Apparently 500hp M5s don't come with brakes these days...
Famine


Poor road discipline is the driver's fault, not the car's.

A 250mph Bugatti Veyron can come to rest from its top speed in a shorter distance than my car can come to rest from its 141mph top speed, and it sure as hell can stop quicker from an illegal-in-the-UK 100mph than I can from a legal-in-the-UK 70mph.

Fast cars stop well.


Yes, they stop well, but ultimately the speed you are going dictates whether if you stop sooner compared to a car going at a lower speed. Yes, M5 does come with brakes, but more power = more confidence = potential accidents. And I mean confidence as in like "ha ha! I have a 500hp monster. Do you?" not "yay, I can drive better than before thanks to the 500hp M5!" More power will cause drivers to be more aggressive, thus causing them to speed and take chances, such as running a red light, for example. The car will enhance the poor discipline of the driver. Imagine a really poorly behaving person, driving one of those Geo Metros. He probably won't run a red light or try to race with someone beside him because he knows that he will not win.

Famine
And stop sooner, with better brakes and stickier tyres.

Yes, in GT4...how many people can afford to have stickier tires? Certainly not me.

Famine
I'm just telling you that's why your quoting was screwy - you had open-ended tags. The extra color=black tags were the cause of it - and they're unnecessary, since the default font colour IS black.

Yeah, I'm still new at this...sorry.

Famine
So I don't know why you mention your domestic products when I specified imported ones.
Famine



You brought your stereo over by plane, you say? Would that be a plane which produces 500,000 times more carbon dioxide in a transatlantic flight than an average car does every year, and places it neatly at up 45,000 feet where it'd do more damage than the 500,000 cars?


Well, I'm mentioning the domestic products to show you that over half of the things in my house is domestic. Maybe the stereo, the DVD recorder, and PS2 and that's about it. And yes, planes do cause create more emissions...I won't argue on that one. But all CO2 will end up at around the same place; it shouldn't matter whether the CO2 was emitted 45000ft up in the air or at ground level.
 
Again with the bad breaking, higher confidence and not affording new tires, thats the users fault and you can't say "oh ever single person will drive faster and get in accidents we have to ban extremely powerful cars". A better thing to do would be to educate drivers better.

Errr wait wasn't this arguement over chrome-ing a lambo?

And also it does matter where the co2 is distributed.
 
GT4_Rule
Then why not post the urban figures for Hummer also?
The urban mpg for the Hummer is very difficult to track down. Fuel mileage is not even listed on Hummer's official website (I wonder why not). Naturally, the approach and departure angles are listed, along with winch capacity; you know, features every H2 owner cares about and uses frequently. I've heard rumors of the H2 getting about 6-8 mpg city. That is truly awful.
GT4_Rule
Try crashing from 175mph, then 155. There will be some difference.
This may be splitting hairs. A crash at either of those speeds is not going to end favorably.
GT4_Rule
Yes, it won't make any difference, because all cars will have 155mph speed limiter in my world. See who can take advantage of the wind draft.
How? Once the car hits the chip speed limit, the engine cuts. With a tailwind or slipstream, it will get there faster, but won't go over.
GT4_Rule
Yes, in GT4...how many people can afford to have stickier tires? Certainly not me.
Performance cars come with bigger brakes and stickier tires. You don't have to spend anything extra for it. The rear tires on a Chevy Aveo are about 7 inches wide. On a Z06, they're 13 inches wide. Coincidence?

I never actually commented on this; Chroming a car is a silly waste of money, but it's not the worst thing you can do.
 
kylehnat
The urban mpg for the Hummer is very difficult to track down. Fuel mileage is not even listed on Hummer's official website (I wonder why not). Naturally, the approach and departure angles are listed, along with winch capacity; you know, features every H2 owner cares about and uses frequently. I've heard rumors of the H2 getting about 6-8 mpg city. That is truly awful.

Yeah, it is. Pretty obvious why they didnt list it :sly:

kylehnat
This may be splitting hairs. A crash at either of those speeds is not going to end favorably.

yes, true.

How? Once the car hits the chip speed limit, the engine cuts. With a tailwind or slipstream, it will get there faster, but won't go over.

I won't argue on that one.

Performance cars come with bigger brakes and stickier tires. You don't have to spend anything extra for it. The rear tires on a Chevy Aveo are about 7 inches wide. On a Z06, they're 13 inches wide. Coincidence?

I never actually commented on this; Chroming a car is a silly waste of money, but it's not the worst thing you can do.

Yes, its not the worst thing you can do... I agree on that one. Now let's get back on the original discussion. Is chrome lambo good or bad?
 
my opinion on what causes the most accidents are.

People disrupting or hindering the flow of traffic.

Slow wankers holding up people in the fast lane.. people going 10mph under the speed limit. People going too slow are just as dangerous if not more dangerous then people going too fast.
 
GT4_Rule
Yes, M5 does come with brakes, but more power = more confidence = potential accidents. And I mean confidence as in like "ha ha! I have a 500hp monster. Do you?" not "yay, I can drive better than before thanks to the 500hp M5!" More power will cause drivers to be more aggressive, thus causing them to speed and take chances, such as running a red light, for example. The car will enhance the poor discipline of the driver. Imagine a really poorly behaving person, driving one of those Geo Metros. He probably won't run a red light or try to race with someone beside him because he knows that he will not win.

Funnily, I've never had a Ferrari try to race me off the lights. Even more funnily, it's usually 15 year old shopping hatchback crapwagons.

Someone old enough to have an expensive fast car appreciates what it is to have an expensive fast car and is wise enough not to have to get everywhere first. A 17 year old in a car worth both halves of jack **** and more testosterone than intelligence doesn't.


GT4_Rule
Well, there's different speed limits, but I'm not talking Northern Territories here. And 175mph is 20mph over 155mph. Mathpower. Try crashing from 175mph, then 155. There will be some difference.

Now try crashing at 70mph. There's even more difference.

Your point?

Surely if you're arguing that it's safer to travel at 155mph than 175mph you must also accept that it's safer still to travel at 70mph. Or 40mph. Or not moving at all.

While these points make sense in a public road speed limit debate, they do not make sense in an absolute maximum speed debate.


Imagine poor old Andy Green in your world. Twin jet engines, hundreds of thousands of pounds of thrust, a flat salt lake bed and a 155mph limiter...


Chrome Lambo: Good or bad? Who cares? It's ugly, and that's the only issue at hand.
 
GT4_Rule
Why this figure, don't ask me. But 6-7 seconds seems fairly slow but not slow enough to take forever.

Whats wrong with doing 0-60 in 3.3 seconds - as long as its in a 60mph area you are totally within the law. 6 or 7 seconds is good, but 3.3 is better. In the eyes of the law, accelerating to the legal limit in the blink of an eye is preferable to traveling at 75mph in a 70 zone.

GT4_Rule
Well, there's different speed limits, but I'm not talking Northern Territories here. And 175mph is 20mph over 155mph. Mathpower. Try crashing from 175mph, then 155. There will be some difference.

Its the difference between an closed and open casket.


As for whether a chrome Murcielago is good or bad, it comes down to taste. Chrome on a car is in bad taste, its just a show of money. Supercars shouldn't be about showing off, they should be about driving a great performing car. Doing anything other than driving it fast (or driving it normally to a track to drive fast) is a complete waste. That's the whole problem with the 'bling' culture, its all about seing how much money you can afford to waste on pointless tat. When there's so much poverty in the world its extreamely vulger and in bad taste to just 'waste' money to such an extent.
 
TheCracker
Whats wrong with doing 0-60 in 3.3 seconds - as long as its in a 60mph area you are totally within the law. 6 or 7 seconds is good, but 3.3 is better. In the eyes of the law, accelerating to the legal limit in the blink of an eye is preferable to traveling at 75mph in a 70 zone.

I'd like to quote a copper acquaintance of mine here:

"Balls-out acceleration? Well, as long as it's within the speed limit and you don't break traction... fill your boots.


TheCracker
Its the difference between an closed and open casket.

Though two people survived a 162mph crash in a Ferrari Enzo Ferrari last week. They certainly wouldn't have survived a "GT4_Rule safe" 155mph in, say, an Audi TT. Why? Because of the extremes of materials and construction required for such an extreme performance car.

$1,000,000 on a supercar = $1,000,000 worth of supercar.
 
Famine

$1,000,000 on a supercar = $1,000,000 worth of supercar.

Besides, during it's life time, with the exception of most cars featured on 'Wrecked Exotics' a supercar will generate more income than an average car will. Your average car will probably pass through 3 or 4 sets of hands before being scraped 15 years later with a value of zero. During this time the car might use a set of tyres every other year, a couple of clutches and a set of disks amongst a few other bits and bobs.

A supercar on the other hand could quite possibly run for 30+ years. During this time it will loose little value, it could quite easily be totally re-built at a cost greater than its worth. It will also go through tyres and other consumables at a much great rate than an average car.

All-in-all a supercar will generate much more wealth and revenue for so many more people in its life time, not just because of its higher initial price or the amount of tax generated from fuel costs. You've also got to emember that most supercars are an individuals 2nd or 3rd car. This means that the owner can only drive one car at a time compared to most average cars that clog up the roads on a daily basis.
 
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