Clarkson's 2006 "Good Car Bad Car" List

[YSSMAN]

Hey kids, its up, and the results arent that surprising...

You can find the full list HERE.

Best "Executive" Car:
BMW M5

Best Coupe:
Aston Martin V8 Vantage

Best Sports Car:
Mazda MX5

Best Estate:
Mercedes-Benz R500 SE

Best Family Car:
Honda Accord 2.2 Diesel (Americans: Thats the Acura TSX with a diesel)

Best Hatch:
Volkswagen GTI 3DR (The only version we get in the US, so far)

The list was interesting, as many of the models are sold worldwide, not just in Europe. I was surprised to see that the Corvette C6 came in fourth in the coupe class, with all the hatred of the interior and such... Go USA!

EDIT: Forgot to add the bad...

Worst "Executive" Sedan:
Peugot 607

Worst Coupe:
Peugot 407

Worst Sports Car:
Morgan Coupe

Worst Estate:
FIAT Croma

Worst Family Car:
Hyundai Elantra

Worst Hatch:
Perouda Kelisa

 

[skip0110]

Have you seen his "Heaven and Hell" DVD (on 2005 cars)? He actually praises the Vette quite a bit in it...

 

[xcsti]

Best Family Car:
Honda Accord 2.2 Diesel (Americans: Thats the Acura RSX with a diesel)

I believe its the same as the tsx not the rsx.

Yep all those choices seem logical.

 

[YSSMAN]

Thanks for pointing that out xcsti... Fixed now

 

[skip0110]

The Elantra is the worst "family car"? In it's size class (I think we'd call that a compact in the US) I think you could make a worse descision, like a Focus or a Sentra...of course, the Brits get a new Focus that probably kicks the snot out of the Elantra..

 

[Wolfe]

I don't have anything to argue against in these lists... 👍

BMW -- #1 executive car and #2 coupé...

 

[ferrari_chris]

Meh. I've never much agreed with Clarkson on his picks.

I like his 'journalist' style, and I like the cars he tests, but his picks on what's hot and what's not - we often don't see eye-to-eye.

I think it's a British thing - you've always been a bit eccentric...

 

[YSSMAN]

Putting the Peugots in the Suxorz categories several times was surprising, as the buzz I had read about the cars seemed positive...

I read the short article about the Perouda Kelisa, and I laughed so hard after reading that it costs the owner about 14p (about $30USD) per mile to own the car in terms of depreciation. Thats crazy! I dont think we have had a car like that in the US since the Yugo, and even then I dont know if it was THAT bad...?

 

[Dave A]

14p isn't $30USD, it's about 25 cents. $30USD is about £18.

So far I'd pretty much agree with that list but I'd put the TVR Sagaris as 2nd in the coupe's list and just remove the M6, I don't like the looks of that car and it makes little sense to me for somone to spend that much more on an uglier M5.

 

[Wolfe]

@YSSMAN: As live4speed pointed out (kinda), the "p" in 14p stands for "pence," which is the plural for "penny"...

Clarkson was talking about the cost of running the car, not the rate of depreciation.

 

[G.T]

Worst Hatch:
Perouda Kelisa

I'm not surprised. He bought one, got a hammer and started hammering it in his new DVD "Clarkson Heaven and Hell". You should have seen the people watch him do it.

He claims he actualy bought the car with his own money too.

 

[Scaff]

Guys this is just the first part of the list, the second part covering off-roaders, luxury cars, MPVs, convertibles and supercars.

In regard to JC's attitude towards American cars, I persoanlly believe he is no more biased towards or against them than any other car manufacturing country.

He is correctly critical of the interior build quality of a lot of American cars, because it is general of lower standard than European cars. That is I'm afraid a fact that is difficult to dispute.

However even with all of that in the last two series of Top Gear he has had high praise for the SRT-10 (what we have to call the Viper here in the UK), the Vette and the Ford GT (one of which he does after all own).

JC has in the past been just as critical of TVRs (they all break down and smell of glue), is famously anti-Porsche (only calming down on this ine in the last few years).

The most famous piece of critical reviewing he did was for the Vauxhall Vectra (yes that is GM, but its a European model only that was designed and built in and for Europe). When reviewed for Top Gear he refused to say anything about the car, other than the dust-caps for the tyre valves were quite nice. Vauxhall refushed to let him test a car for years after than.

The two Peugeots included in the Bad cars both deserve the place. The 607 is yet more proof (if it was needed) that the French can't make a big Executive car, and to buy one new would make about as much sense as just brning fists fullof cash (actualy that would probably be a better investment).

With the 407 Coupe, well were to start. Peugeot obviously knew. Take a great looking and driving car (the 406 Coupe), throw it away and make a car that is the total opposite. Its fat, slow, ugly and far to expensive. My wife knows only too well how much I dislike this particular car, you see in my youth the one thing you always knew was that a Peugeot would be a great drive. No matter how poorly built, slow or square in design, it would always be a hoot down a b-road. The 407 coupe can't even claim that.

I do however think that the SLK 55 AMG is just in the list because its also a car JC owns, be interesting to see if the Ford GT heads the Supercar section next week.

Regards

Scaff

edited to add

So far I'd pretty much agree with that list but I'd put the TVR Sagaris as 2nd in the coupe's list and just remove the M6, I don't like the looks of that car and it makes little sense to me for somone to spend that much more on an uglier M5.

While I fully understand your (and share) your unhappyness at the lack of the Sagaris (maybe next week), I can't agree thatthe M6 is just an uglier M5.

The M6 may share a lot of the basics of the M5, but its a very different car. The M6 runs a totally different suspension set-up than the M5, the roof is Carbon-Fibre (a'la M3 CSL) and most of the body panels alluminum or plastic composite. These kind of changes result in a with very different handling characteristcs than an M5, every review of the M6 I've read has highlight that it is far more than an M5 in a different body.

Now the question of it being worth the extra £18k, thats a different matter.

 

[Poverty]

ha ha french and italian cars are poooooo.

Needs more audi's on that list. Next year will be audis year.

 

[Danny]

Putting the Peugots in the Suxorz categories several times was surprising, as the buzz I had read about the cars seemed positive...

Don't forget who's compiled the list...

I read the short article about the Perouda Kelisa, and I laughed so hard after reading that it costs the owner about 14p (about $30USD) per mile to own the car in terms of depreciation. Thats crazy! I dont think we have had a car like that in the US since the Yugo, and even then I dont know if it was THAT bad...?

As already stated, that's 14p per miles, which is pretty darn good. Again, don't let's forget whose list it is. I've heard some extremely positive things about the Kelisa. For a brand like Perodua, this is a revelation. It's cheap (well, cheap to us. You could probably buy a top spec BMW for the same price in the good ol' US), reliable and compact. Group 1 insurance too.

ha ha french and italian cars are poooooo.

Needs more audi's on that list. Next year will be audis year.

Well, you've obviously thought this statement through...
What's with the 'tude? By and Large French and Italian cars are on a serious uprise. Do you think Nissan would have joined up with Renault, had the French car giant been a liability? And Alfas reliability is quickly improving, as shown in most recent reliability surveys.


And quit suggesting an Audi as an alternative to everything!
They aren't every thing to every man y'know. Sure, you like them, but y'ever consider that others don't?


Sorry, had to get that off my chest. Been bugging me for a while.

 

[Scaff]

Do you think Nissan would have joined up with Renault, had the French car giant been a liability?

Slight correction here.

Nissan were in major financial trouble and near to declaring bankrupcy when Renault bought 51% of Nissan and took effective control of the company (as majority shareholders). To the degree that they apointed Carlos Ghosn (now MD of Renault) to run the company.

Renault's share in Nissan has since increased to the degree that Nissan are now firmly part of the Renault group and under Renault control.

While Nissan shareholders did have a choice over selling to Renault, it was that or go under as just about every other global player had already backed away from any involvement.

I was actually working at Renault UK at the time of the Nissan takeover and the setting up of a joint HQ.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Danny]

Slight correction here.

Nissan were in major financial trouble and near to declaring bankrupcy when Renault bought 51% of Nissan and took effective control of the company (as majority shareholders). To the degree that they apointed Carlos Ghosn (now MD of Renault) to run the company.

Renault's share in Nissan has since increased to the degree that Nissan are now firmly part of the Renault group and under Renault control.

While Nissan shareholders did have a choice over selling to Renault, it was that or go under as just about every other global player had already backed away from any involvement.

I was actually working at Renault UK at the time of the Nissan takeover and the setting up of a joint HQ.

Regards

Scaff

Oh, I thought it was a business partnership. Thanks for the info Scaff.

 

[Scaff]

Oh, I thought it was a business partnership. Thanks for the info Scaff.

No problem.

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

@YSSMAN: As live4speed pointed out (kinda), the "p" in 14p stands for "pence," which is the plural for "penny"...

Clarkson was talking about the cost of running the car, not the rate of depreciation.

Ok, I might be slightly retarted, and I feel pretty dumb now. I fgure the "p" was pounds, but I suppose he would have said pounds or quid if he was refering to them...

Converting the presumed 14 pounds to $30 USD was an estimate. I usually just round the difference between the dollar and pound to about 2USD= 1GBP.

 

[Poverty]

By and Large French and Italian cars are on a serious uprise. Do you think Nissan would have joined up with Renault, had the French car giant been a liability?

I can refer you to a thread on a Impreza forum entitled "the worse car you have ever owned". The french are leading at the moment with members complaining of reliability. Especially renaults.

 

[exigeracer]

Perodua.

The MX5 surprises me. That's the first good review I've seen of it. From a brit, as well!

 

[YSSMAN]

I was reading a few of Carkson's reviews, and I was going through the Mustang review and to my surprise he absolutely hates the new Pontiac Solstice. Although he somewhat dances around the topic itself, it puzzles me as to why exactly the car is so incredibly bad...

Over here in the States, its widely reguarded as a success. A sub-$20K sports car that can indeed compete with the more expensive MX5? And its from GM? Hell must be freezing over!

I've mentioned it before in other threads, but Clarkson confuses me time and time again. He knocks on the Corvette over, and over, and over again, and yet it is one of his favorite cars. He calls the Mustang GT rubbish, and yet he wants to buy one...? I'd like to see a full review of the Solstice (or Sky, GT, etc.) by Clarkson and the Top Gear gang... The car isnt that bad, but they have to give it a chance before the completely write it off as another piece of American crap.

 

[niky]

Eh? I've seen lots of good reviews of the MX-5. The most negative things I've heard about it are from testers who have racing gas in their veins (instead of just petrol) and have slicks on their grocery carts... and it's mainly about how it's not as sensitive of steering as the old one (no surprise, given the bigger wheels and the new power steering).

Of course, most of those testers are brits, so maybe I can see where you're getting at.

As another defense of the non-existence of Clarkson's anti-American bias... do note that he owns a Hummer H2 (that made me lose quite a bit of respect for him, though) and a Ford GT. So when he complains, give him credit, he knows what he's talking about.

He's also owned various turds in his life, like an old V6 Alfa Romeo ("On its day, it could make you feel like a million bucks... sadly, I never found that day"... or something like that) so he knows his bad cars.

 

[Dave A]

What you have to realise is that he exagerates a cars good or bad points and often turns them into a joke, he's not anti-American at all he just makes jokes sometimes based on many peoples steriotypical views, he does it about British cars, Japanese cars, Italian cars, German cars, French cars ect. He can have a big moan about a certain car's bad point and still have an overall view that the cars good, like the C6 Vette, though he didn't actuall have any major complaints about that car other than lhd only and didn't like the idea of still using leaf spring, despite that he still conceded that on that car they worked well enough. You just hav to be able to understand where the fun ends and the info starts or vice versa, it's not hard for us, but if your from somewhere el and can't tap into that way of thinking or humour then your going to get the wrong impression. It's like people in here saying they're suprised he out the C6 Vette in the list of good coupes, ofcourse he did, he really liked that car and all his reviews ended with that.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Well, the thing is that this is one man's opinion. Clarkson is deified by schoolboys and halfwits, and everything that he says is held by these groups to be good and true and fact. Actually, he says a lot of things, and does change his mind a lot of the time. It's fair enough I suppose, but he needs to realise that what he says is not quite as transient as it seems at the time: people remember.

And someone posting a list of "best" and "worst" is just about meaningless in the process of actually going out and buying a car. It's fine as entertainment, but don't mistake it for fact, whomsoever writes it.

 

[Dave A]

And someone posting a list of "best" and "worst" is just about meaningless in the process of actually going out and buying a car. It's fine as entertainment, but don't mistake it for fact, whomsoever writes it.

Exactley, it's like magazine reviews, the data in the reviews is relevent ie it can do 0-60 in 5 seconds, it has 5 doors, it has air con ect, but all the opinion is only there as padding, to make the review enjoyable to read. Your opinion of the car can be vastly different, just in another thread I commente on two US mag tests where high priced GT's were being tested and pointed out the fact about personal opinion playing such a large view because one test had the Bentley Continental GT coming in last and the other in first.

 

[daan]

The Accord has absolutely no personality whatsoever. And the style of a box. But with your sensible trousers on this is the best car in its class bar none.

Not so much a bad car, just an extremely boring one. Peugeot targeted the 407 at people who are old but want to feel young.

So, essentially, he's marked the Accord up for being boring, and the 407 Coupe down for being boring.

Jeremy Clarkson is entertaining, but I do not trust his judgement on any car, ever.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

So, essentially, he's marked the Accord up for being boring, and the 407 Coupe down for being boring.

Jeremy Clarkson is entertaining, but I do not trust his judgement on any car, ever.

One as a 4-door family saloon is almost meant to be boring. That a 2-door coupe is boring (if indeed the 407C is: I do not know personally), that is all but unforgivable.

I sense that Peugeot themselves are a little embarrassed about the car. If you look at the ad, you don't see the rear, at all. If you compare the 406 Coupe and Saloon, and the 407 Coupe and Saloon, the delta is much smaller for the latter pairing. It's as if they didn't really bother with designing it. And it's a lot of money.

 

[Elegy]

Didn't he sell the Ford GT?

The reason most American car fans are more sensitive than others is that they're constantly getting dumped on from several other angles and sources in addition to Clarkson's rants. After a while, you kind of get sick of it. See supercars.net for a particularly nasty example.

 

[Dave A]

No he sent it back for repairs after his alarm kept playing up, I think it was his alarm anyway, but he didn't sell it, he just sent it back for repairs.

 

[Elegy]

No he sent it back for repairs after his alarm kept playing up, I think it was his alarm anyway, but he didn't sell it, he just sent it back for repairs.

Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying; guess I heard wrong, then.