Clio Cup, snap oversteer, Donington.PS4 

DaveTheStalker

DaveTheStalker

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DaveTheStalker
What's the cure to make this car stop getting so loose and unrecoverable?

i'm using the DS4 in Mode 2 or 3 with default settings, I'd rather not blame the controller for the over steering. I've done about 50 laps on the track between Free Run and Career, and I can't do a single clean lap! The main problem area is the left dogleg running downhill to a sharp right. Then the following set going uphill with a slight left to the sharp right.


I need to go to sleep, my wife is going to kill me in about 20 minutes!
 
I had the same issue. I had to get my tyres up to temperature otherwise i'd just oversteer off at the exact same corner. You need all 4 tyres showing as green. Usually takes around 2 laps plus the outlap for them to be warm enough. Or I guess you could do some sharp cornering and/or heavy braking.
 
Tyres. Simple as that, the car is the same on a wheel. It has a large amount of lift off oversteer. Also try adjusting the differential slip to another setting. This will help also.
 
Stay on the gas.
It seems counter-intuitive, but that's actually how you keep the car from losing the back end. The Clio is FWD after all .
If you feel like losing it, get back on the gas and voila! You've recovered.
Those downhill curves at Donington - don't lift off the gas. Get a good line and punch it, otherwise you'll spin out everytime.
 
xJankaLV
Stay on the gas.
It seems counter-intuitive, but that's actually how you keep the car from losing the back end. The Clio is FWD after all .
If you feel like losing it, get back on the gas and voila! You've recovered.
Those downhill curves at Donington - don't lift off the gas. Get a good line and punch it, otherwise you'll spin out everytime.
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Exactly this. Take a good line through the left hander and brake for the right on the straight. I remember I lost it a few times on that downhill left.
 
shift up to 6th before you start turning left. When you do turn left put you two left tires in the grass or almost in the grass. that way by the time you are at the end of the left turn, you are setup for braking and don't have to try to finish turning left and brake at the same time, that's causes a nightmare for your weight transfer. you can do it full throttle but a tap of the brakes before turning left makes it a little easier.
 
xJankaLV
Stay on the gas.
It seems counter-intuitive, but that's actually how you keep the car from losing the back end. The Clio is FWD after all .
If you feel like losing it, get back on the gas and voila! You've recovered.
Those downhill curves at Donington - don't lift off the gas. Get a good line and punch it, otherwise you'll spin out everytime.
Click to expand...
ImToLegitToQuit
shift up to 6th before you start turning left. When you do turn left put you two left tires in the grass or almost in the grass. that way by the time you are at the end of the left turn, you are setup for braking and don't have to try to finish turning left and brake at the same time, that's causes a nightmare for your weight transfer. you can do it full throttle but a tap of the brakes before turning left makes it a little easier.
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These are the two correct answers, it's not necessary to tinker with settings. I was getting lift off oversteer here too, at first I was lifting a bit early while still on the straight and coasting into the turn which got me through cleanly. But then I found that if I took the right line I could stay flat through the turn which kept the weight on the rear. When you lift in a FWD car it takes the weight off the rear and the act of turning creates enough weight shift that the now light rear breaks loose, avoid this situation and you'll get through the turn cleanly. 👍
 
BrandonW77
These are the two correct answers, it's not necessary to tinker with settings. I was getting lift off oversteer here too, at first I was lifting a bit early while still on the straight and coasting into the turn which got me through cleanly. But then I found that if I took the right line I could stay flat through the turn which kept the weight on the rear. When you lift in a FWD car it takes the weight off the rear and the act of turning creates enough weight shift that the now light rear breaks loose, avoid this situation and you'll get through the turn cleanly. 👍
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Or..adjust settings. Why would that be wrong? Its like saying instead of decreasing camber or changing brake bias you should just brake earlier, both are options.

But you guys are right about how to solve this without adjusting the car
 
Mr_D
Or..adjust settings. Why would that be wrong? Its like saying instead of decreasing camber or changing brake bias you should just brake earlier, both are options.

But you guys are right about how to solve this without adjusting the car
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It's not that changing settings are wrong but you could be making the car worse overall to get through one turn when really you just need help with the turn. If your not into tuning and do everything people tell you to online you'll end up with a clown car. He should probably raise the pre load before raising the decel because he's getting the oversteer when he lifts while turning. Hitting the brakes just makes it worse.
 
Mr_D
Or..adjust settings. Why would that be wrong? Its like saying instead of decreasing camber or changing brake bias you should just brake earlier, both are options.

But you guys are right about how to solve this without adjusting the car
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was wrong, just that it wasn't necessary. I firmly believe that you get more benefit from learning how to properly attack a corner than just tuning a car to make it behave a certain way. The best thing you can do for your driving is to improve the nut behind the wheel. 👍
 
BrandonW77
I didn't say it was wrong, just that it wasn't necessary. I firmly believe that you get more benefit from learning how to properly attack a corner than just tuning a car to make it behave a certain way. The best thing you can do for your driving is to improve the nut behind the wheel. 👍
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Yeah I gues youre right. If youre really making obvious mistakes going into that corner then you should start there first. But if that fails..tune! ;)


Edit. Adjust the nut behind the wheel...lol, that took me a while (non native English speaker here..:lol:)
 
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Mr_D
Yeah I gues youre right. If youre really making obvious mistakes going into that corner then you should start there first. But if that fails..tune! ;)
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If other people can make the car take the corner faster than you without losing control, then you're not yet able to get the maximum performance out of the car. No amount of tweaking your setup is going to change that.
 
I found the front end of the Clio wants to just keep on turning out of corners with the stock setup but now after some tuning that doesn't happen at all. tested it out a lot at Laguna Seca last night and just found it works great at Donington too.

the tyre pressures and sway bars make a big difference.

I changed front tyres to 1.60
rear tyres 1.40
brake pressure 96
brake balance 35
front sway bar 52
rear sway bar 22
front slow rebound 22500
rear slow rebound 26000
ltd slip acc 80
ltd slip dec 55

don't think i adjusted the camber.
it's a nice grippy setup I think. front end completely controllable. still turns in and steady under braking to boot.
 
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bleeder
I found the front end of the Clio wants to just keep on turning out corners with the stock setup but now after some tuning that doesn't happen at all. tested it out a lot at Laguna Seca last night and just found it works great at Donington too.

the tyre pressures and sway bars make a big difference.

I changed front tyres to 1.60
rear tyres 1.40
brake pressure 96
brake balance 35
front sway bar 52
rear sway bar 22
front slow rebound 22500
rear slow rebound 26000
ltd slip acc 80
ltd slip dec 55

don't think i adjusted the camber.
it's a nice grippy setup I think. front end completely controllable. still turns in and steady under braking to boot.
Click to expand...
Give it even more negative camber at the rear. Car will just want to turn ;)
 
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The first issue is unfortunate your on a controller but I can get down the hill no problem with a stock setup. So give this a go

Turn1 brake late and apex late. Back on throttle just before the apex. Hug the inside track on the right hand bend shift up to 6th. You should be close to changing up any way. Turn left early and stay flat. Let it wash out slighty. Straighten up and brake early. And once again turn in early and power through. The car will wash out but if you've taken it right you won't have cut the corner an will be on the kerbs. By acceleration through the coner you will carry more speed uphil.

Then again brake straight and turn in early as the elevation will once again push you out. It helps in the Clio if your on part or full throttle. Also don't be afraid to use the rotation of rear to carry more speed through the corner.
 
Clio/Donington has to be one of my favorite combos in Project CARS. I can imagine it's a bit more tricky with a controller, but the default setup is definitely doable. Most of the weight is in the front, so the rear gets upset easily when weight is shifted forward even more by braking or letting go of the throttle. But coming from GT (where FWD behave a bit different) you'll need to relearn/adapt your driving style. In GT FWD just understeer, in Project CARS they're twitchy little bastards! :lol:

After you've got to grips with the car on Donington, then try it at Nordschleife, absolutely nerve-wrecking experience. :D
 
DaveTheStalker
What's the cure to make this car stop getting so loose and unrecoverable?

i'm using the DS4 in Mode 2 or 3 with default settings, I'd rather not blame the controller for the over steering. I've done about 50 laps on the track between Free Run and Career, and I can't do a single clean lap! The main problem area is the left dogleg running downhill to a sharp right. Then the following set going uphill with a slight left to the sharp right.


I need to go to sleep, my wife is going to kill me in about 20 minutes!
Click to expand...

In reply to your problem, I highly recommend changing your controller settings, all pre sets are terrible. To be honest I think that might be a big part of the issue here.
 
Shameless plug - here's my hotlap at Donington in the Clio - 1"44.916
I did a 1"44 flat but unfortunately it was not a valid lap.

The trick is to take advantage of the front wheel drive - point the wheel / tyres in the right direction and power through the corners. Your instinct may be to lift, or break, but it will lead to understeer.

 
As a couple of people mentioned the problem is lift off over steer and if you're running the cleo cup in career you'll have to figure out how to keep it under control as it will continue to be a problem.

Never attempt to lift off the throttle and go neutral (no throttle or brake inputs) into corners with any kind of elevation change. The car has a short wheel base and shifts it's weight off the back wheels very easily. If you watch the video posted above you'll see just how much time that car spends on 3 wheels. It's kinda fun to watch but it also means your rear traction is at a premium.

Avoid braking into a corner unless you have decel lock on your diff increased. Increasing decel lock makes the car want to pull into a straight line when braking. It's what you should be trying to do anyway. It makes this car a bit easier to drive as it allows you to brake later into the corners as long as you get immediately back on throttle (as in instantly.)

Best thing to do is brake early and in a straight line then gradually increase throttle as you turn into the corner, accelerating out as you pass the apex. It just takes a touch of throttle to shift the weight onto the rear wheels and keep to car under control. If you feel like the rear end is about to slip out you have to suppress that urge to lift off the throttle like you would in a rwd car. In the Cleo, adding throttle is what's more likely to save you.

Ignore ppl who say be a man and do it without setup changes. Tuning and setup options are there for a reason and they can be just as important for making a car drive-able, especially with a game pad, as they are for optimizing times. Just don't be going in and making huge changes, moving sliders all the way to the left or right. Make a few changes here or there (one setting at a time so you know what is causing the changes when you test) until the car feels right for you.

Practice practice practice. If you're just starting the Cleo cup, Donington can be a pain if you haven't come to grips with the car. But Oulton park a few races into the calender is a nightmare.
 
You have to imagine your suspension as a spring ,The more you accelerate the tighter or more compressed the spring becomes ,same with the brake the more you break the tighter it gets causing understeer

But when you just let off the gas the spring becomes decompressed so your suspension becomes loose this cause over steer

The correct way of taking a fast corner in a FWD car is to keep the spring tight at speed if you break going into corner ,You slowly lift off the accelerator and apply pressure to the brake at approx the same time ,similarly when you come off the break you gradualy apply the gas

What i do when taking that corner is break untill the car just starts to over steer in towards the apex then slowly come off the brake then apply the gas to keep the suspension tight and the car begins to understeer and straightens up for the slow corner
 


Here's my vid in its entirety (1:24 lap stars at about 5:10), the only things i have changed on the car:
Tyres: 1.40 all around
60% braking toward the front

Everthing else is default and i have all assists off. Hopefully this can help someone struggling.

Cheers!
 
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Don't brake of come full off the throttle mid corner. Doing either of those while going around a corner fast will initiate lift off oversteer. Not good for lap times but very fun in real life
 

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