Clutch & Gear Shift Changes

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VBR

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According to the official changelog: "The time required to perform gear shifts with a paddle shift or DUALSHOCK®4 Wireless Controller when the transmission is set to [Manual] has been reduced." It seems that some of the things asked for by the community here have been addressed (main quote below).

VBR
1) Un-nerf the clutch; no more miss shifts/no more being thrown into neutral, no more pushing it all the way down to change gear.

2) Speed up the shift time for paddle users in all cars to match the average shift time of clutch/h pattern users.

3) Disallow the use of paddle shift & clutch/h pattern at the same time (to stop cheating via exploits).

4) Allow the use of clutch & h pattern when fully adjustable gearing is being used.


There have also been other changes made to the clutch model as observed by @khkenni

They have changed how shifting with a clutch works. You can now power shift (Full throttle) and the gear indicator will show "#" until it changes to the selected gear...




Have any other things changed?
 
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VBR

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I've been testing this out with my fav car & track combo; Evo 96 on Brands Hatch GP. And...there's good news & bad news.

It's true, we can flat shift now...mostly. However, sometimes for a yet undetermined reason*, I'm still getting thrown into neutral. Also, sometimes when I'm shifting, especially when flat shifting very fast, the car will go into gear, but the game readout still says Neutral.

There are other problems as well. When off the throttle, the clutch bite point is still down at about 80 to 90% of the pedal travel. However, when on the throttle, the bite point of the clutch magically moves to only 10 to 20% of the pedal travel. Not sure if this is because the clutch is a lot more progressive now though...

:boggled:

I think this clutch model has been very hastily thrown together by someone at PD (probably in response to pressure from Thrustmaster). It's still buggy & will need a few more adjustments before it's fully functional. That said, it's nice to be able to finally flat shift in a GT game once again; we've not been able to do that since the day one release of GT5 Prologue.


EDIT: We can still use the paddles & h pattern/clutch at the same time, so the potential for exploiting this & cheating is still there. :banghead:

EDIT: The clutch still doesn't work with fully customizable transmissions. :ouch: We can use the gear shifter without it again though.

EDIT: After some more testing; we can shift gear when the clutch is depressed by as little as 5 to 10% now. Not pressing the clutch at all & shifting still results in a miss-shift & being thrown into neutral. *However, the game still throws us into neutral sometimes while flat shifting when redlining, even when the clutch is being used. :confused:
 
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297
United States
virginia
minimoto2011
VBR
I've been testing this out with my fav car & track combo; Evo 96 on Brands Hatch GP. And...there's good news & bad news.

It's true, we can flat shift now...mostly. However, sometimes for a yet undetermined reason*, I'm still getting thrown into neutral. Also, sometimes when I'm shifting, especially when flat shifting very fast, the car will go into gear, but the game readout still says Neutral.

There are other problems as well. When off the throttle, the clutch bite point is still down at about 80 to 90% of the pedal travel. However, when on the throttle, the bite point of the clutch magically moves to only 10 to 20% of the pedal travel. Not sure if this is because the clutch is a lot more progressive now though...

:boggled:

I think this clutch model has been very hastily thrown together by someone at PD (probably in response to pressure from Thrustmaster). It's still buggy & will need a few more adjustments before it's fully functional. That said, it's nice to be able to finally flat shift in a GT game once again; we've not been able to do that since the day one release of GT5 Prologue.


EDIT: We can still use the paddles & h pattern/clutch at the same time, so the potential for exploiting this & cheating is still there. :banghead:

EDIT: The clutch still doesn't work with fully customizable transmissions. :ouch: We can use the gear shifter without it again though.

EDIT: After some more testing; we can shift gear when the clutch is depressed by as little as 5 to 10% now. Not pressing the clutch at all & shifting still results in a miss-shift & being thrown into neutral. *However, the game still throws us into neutral sometimes while flat shifting when redlining, even when the clutch is being used. :confused:
Hopefully we’ll get some sort of hotfix later on to resolve some of those minor bugs
 

VXR

10,236
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This is veery well timed, as I only just bolted on my h-shifter last night and used it for the first time this afternoon. Had a really fun time with a 997 GT3 on Nurb GP.

I did observe a couple of missed shifts that threw it into neutral.
 

VBR

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After using the clutch loads yesterday, & having some time to think about it, here are my final thoughts.

Not much has actually changed. I'm still getting miss-shifts. The only significant change is that the clutch is very progressive now, probably a little too progressive, as it starts to engage very high up the pedal but is not fully engaged until it's very far down. I was able to hold a car on an incline just using throttle & clutch, so that felt realistic.

Having a more progressive clutch is nice, but with the miss-shifts still present, it's still unusable for racing imo. I was hoping for a lot more, to be honest.


:indiff:
 

VXR

10,236
United Kingdom
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motorforum
Had quite a few missed shifts on the F1500, but to be fair I was on the Nordschleife and trying to tame the steering, track and now gearbox was a fairly steep learning curve for a novice wheel user!
 
3,411
United States
NJ
Rave2Grave
Looks like I'll have to re-test every car at Tsukuba again, for the third time. You know what? I'll come back when the next GT comes out. I just want to hot lap and have the times be set in stone. Is that too much to ask?
 
58
United States
United States
Wow is it confirmed that clutch is now simulated when using an adjustable gearbox and h-pattern+clutch?

Just got a chance to try it out and OMG I love it!!!!! You can actually slip the clutch!!!!! If you shift too fast on an older car you can still miss on occasion but its much much better!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like I'll have to re-test every car at Tsukuba again, for the third time. You know what? I'll come back when the next GT comes out. I just want to hot lap and have the times be set in stone. Is that too much to ask?

No offense but you do it to yourself....... I personally love trying groups of cars on different tracks after each update. Seeing which cars got faster or slower. I like clearing the leader board and starting over. Just have fun with it, why put so much pressure on yourself?!?
 
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VBR

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Wow is it confirmed that clutch is now simulated when using an adjustable gearbox and h-pattern+clutch?


No, sorry. You still can't use the clutch with fully adjustable gearing. You could in GT5, but then at some point during GT6's lifecycle, PD decided for some unknown reason to disallow it. The same nonsense was carried over into GT Sport, & even after this update to the clutch we still can't use the clutch with fully adjustable gearing.


:banghead:
 
62
Netherlands
Netherlands
When I am in neutral, throttle response seems off compared with the response of the throttle when I am in gear with the clutch in. It does not effect my driving ault all, but this does look like something is not right.
 
297
United States
virginia
minimoto2011
After playing all day today with the H shifter, I’ve had trouble with shifting from 1 to 2, and 2 to 3 when accelerating hard.

It’s like they nerfed it so you can’t shift quickly. Is this just me?
 
857
United Kingdom
Uk
TheLeggacy
I’m still missing a few shifts here and there (if you can’t find it, grind it!!!)
I have noticed a few times when I’ve got the miss-shift noise the gear display shows neutral but the car is actually gear.
 

Jay

  
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VIPERGTS01
It's still not right. I tested with the 88 Countach and it still throws you have to either super granny shift (especially into 3rd gear) like the old horrible update or flat shift. Infact I just flat shift without issue but any lift of the throttle and it misses.
I also noticed the first shift of a time trial run won't allow flat shift but after that no problems.
There has to be a middle ground. However I only tested one car in time trial mode only, not sure if other modes and cars are the same.

I personally think it does need fixing, I don't expect it to be perfect but PD seem to go to both extremes with clutch use.
 
1,317
United Kingdom
Coventry
graveltrap
Clutch seemed much better from my brief go last night :) I do need to spend some more time with it though!

Missed / bad shifts are part of using a manual transmission they should exist in the game, maybe the addition of the clutch pedal graphic to the HUD would help us understand why a miss occurred?
 

Jay

  
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VIPERGTS01
I haven't had a chance to test the H pattern since 1.40, anyone find a noticable improvement?
 

Pigems

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Jay
I haven't had a chance to test the H pattern since 1.40, anyone find a noticable improvement?

If felt basically the same as after the last update in the short test I gave it today. I don’t use it a lot though, so I’m not really super familiar with its typical workings. :)
 

VBR

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Jay
I haven't had a chance to test the H pattern since 1.40, anyone find a noticable improvement?


It feels the same to me, no discernible difference. Still getting lots of miss-shifts, despite what the update claims.

Also, you still can't flat-shift when bouncing off the limiter, it just throws you into neutral.

Still the worst clutch model in all of sim-racing IMO!
 
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1,317
United Kingdom
Coventry
graveltrap
Only driven the Clio V6 so far, 5 or so hot laps at the Nordschleife and not a single miss shift for me :embarrassed:

The only way I managed to get a miss shift was to try changing gear without depressing the clutch, I tried this to verify the clutch was doing something ;)

The clutch pedal still needs to be added to the HUD IMO.

Anyway I need to try some other cars, but for me this is the best using a H-pattern and clutch has been in GTS.
 

VBR

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The 1.40 clutch changes...


 "The simulation of gear changes on cars with manual transmissions has been updated:

  The time required to perform gear shifts with a paddle shift when the transmission is set to [Manual] has been reduced.
  When quickly changing gears in full "Manual Transmission" mode, mis-shifts will occur less frequently.
  It is now more difficult to accelerate in "N" gear if certain inputs are entered."


I really don't understand what that last point means...if you're in neutral you shouldn't be able to accelerate at all.
 
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It's probably talking about hacks, which have been a problem going back to GT5 Prologue.

People were rigging up modded hardware to send control inputs faster than would otherwise be possible. Something similar to that may have been causing the game to enter a "confused" / bugged state.
 

Jay

  
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VIPERGTS01
Definitely less mis shifts since the 1.40 update. I use the shifter almost everyday. Seems like you can go into gear as fast as you want and not mis shift.

Hmmm interesting, getting conflicting reports. I'll have to give it a go soon when I can and check it out. I sure hope it's improved, it was horrible in 1.39.