coil binding?

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wrcsti

wrcsti

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elmataplata
Anyone here do it? My 2 favorite setups are coil bound (Suzu F40 and HSR vette) and I've found them to be used in many different tracks with minor changes. Back in 750pp fuji I ran the same corvette setup suspension wise with a more high speed tranny and power/weight. The F40 has been run on both Suzu and fuji 750s with no changes. What I like about these setups is how they #1 work well and #2 are easy to control. My vette feels like a drifter sometimes, I can get it more sideways than my viper drifter and straighten it 95% of the time. I will post them tomarrow when I get back from school so you guys can try them out yourselves.
If you dont know what coil binding is, It's when you have a very soft front suspension that is raised against the rear. As weight transfers forward so does the front traction. Because of that it is good to use on understeery cars and not to be done with stiff rear springs unless on a rare occasion. It was started in the Homestead miami speedway by Greg Zipadelli and Tony Stewart who won the first 2 races there.
 
Hmmm... Interesting.... and this principle can be applied in the game as well?
 
Setups.
Z06 tuned:
power -3
weight 87
tyres R3 R3
DF 20 30
RH +10 -10
SR 1 2
DP 1 3
Toe -.12 + .12
cA 1.5 1.0
BB 3 5
Turning angle 50

1st- 2.660
2nd- 1.722
3rd- 1.300
4th- 1.056
5th- .835
6thy .596
Final 3.420

F40
power +10
weight 85
tyres R3 R3
RH +3 -10
SR 1 2
DP1 3
Toe -.11 +.03
ca 1.6 1.6
BB 5 5
TA 50

1st- 2.346
2nd- 1.542
3rd- 1.194
4th- .981
5th- .846
Final 3.832
 
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Target lap times for us to gauge how effective this principle is???? They seem incredibly soft both front and rear to me.......

Nevertheless, i shall give the Z06 a try later today and see what lap times i get compared to my current tune that i'm using.
 
Average lap for the Z06 in traffic is 1:04:XXX, Fastest is a 1:02:7XX in 2nd place hunting down first. You say the suspension seems very soft, that is how you make the thing work this way, any stiffer and it'll spin out.
 
wrcsti
Average lap for the Z06 in traffic is 1:04:XXX, Fastest is a 1:02:7XX in 2nd place hunting down first. You say the suspension seems very soft, that is how you make the thing work this way, any stiffer and it'll spin out.
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forget HSR times online......... what times are to be had at Suzuka or Fuji in Free Run?
 
2enty3
umm just a quick question, whats coil binding?
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Coil binding is where the Springs have bottomed out or are completly collapsed with no more travel. Therefore...
Once coil bind is achieved there is no more movement in the suspension. This is where Bump Rubber's come into the picture.
Bump rubber's are smaller springs for the last about 6mm(depends on car) or so of travel of the suspension before coil bind. Using various Bump Rubber's of different tension rates can slow or prevent coil bind by an instant increase in the spring rate.👍 Bump Rubber Springs are significantly stiffer(usually double the rate or more of the actual springs). This allows the front splitter(when refering to the front springs) to get closer to the ground and still have some dampening of suspension movement before being totally bottomed out,(turning the car into a go kart with no suspension). Without Bump Rubber's the car would literally collapse into coil bind.:nervous: This of course is not a good thing...
Fancy driving the Nurburgring with no suspension...:D
Hope this helps,;) Peace.
OnlineGT
 
osg
forget HSR times online......... what times are to be had at Suzuka or Fuji in Free Run?
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Don't remember right. I know the F40 ran a 2:07 on suzu, theres about 1/2 a second left there but its fine with me.
 
This is interesting. I love learning all this techie stuff since I joined this forum.

Is there any use for this on tracks like suzuka/fuji or is it strictly for tracks like HSR and Daytona.

Also I understand the technical bit about how it works but how does this make the car go faster or corner better or whatever? Does it let you carry more speed into a corner, get on the gas earlier or just improve steering response through the bend or none or all of the above?
 
It works on all tracks I've tried it on. HSR, Fuji and suzu. My HSR vette was actually a Fuji setup with more power less weight. I personally like this type of tuning as it allows me to drive in harder into and through the turn and it helps make the car easyer to save if gone way beyond the sideways point.
 
I think to achieve coil binding in this game, the front springs will have to be at MAX not minimum. Coil binding is stiff, not soft. As well, the front ride height must be glued to the ground with the rear up as high as it can go. Did anyone actually see the link I posted in regards to what the professionals describe coil binding as?

I don't think true "coil binding" can be achieved in this game.
 
I find that it depends on the car. My vette diggs down and just almost bottoms out while the F40 goes down quickly but doesnt keep down trough the turn. It works way better on HSR and Daytona than in any other place.
But you are right, true coil binding wont happen unless we get to fine tune every aspect of the cars in the game.
 
wrcsti
Setups.
Z06 tuned:
power -3
weight 87
tyres R3 R3
DF 20 30
RH +10 -10
SR 1 2
DP 1 3
Toe -.12 + .12
cA 1.5 1.0
BB 3 5
Turning angle 50

1st- 2.660
2nd- 1.722
3rd- 1.300
4th- 1.056
5th- .835
6thy .596
Final 3.420

F40
power +10
weight 85
tyres R3 R3
RH +3 -10
SR 1 2
DP1 3
Toe -.11 +.03
ca 1.6 1.6
BB 5 5
TA 50

1st- 2.346
2nd- 1.542
3rd- 1.194
4th- .981
5th- .846
Final 3.832
Click to expand...

Shouldn't your ride height be at the lowest and the rear be at the highest to create the "huntin' dog" stance? That would bind the front springs, yes? To go a step further, what about jacking the rear spring rate all the way up to stiffen it, keeping the rear up?
 
I'm confused as to how anyone thinks that jacking the hell out of your rear, and putting springs/dampers super low is a good idea. Must feel like you're racing a Caddy, and I don't quite mean a CTS-V.
 
xLarkins
I'm confused as to how anyone thinks that jacking the hell out of your rear, and putting springs/dampers super low is a good idea. Must feel like you're racing a Caddy, and I don't quite mean a CTS-V.
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Seems to me it comes from Nascar - the same people who think driving round in circles is what motorsport has been missing but I'll try anything once :odd:
 
Well atleast in Nascar there is side by side racing after lap 5. Ohh snap did that just happen? Shake and bake.
Thats enough OT.
 
wrcsti
Well atleast in Nascar there is side by side racing after lap 5. Ohh snap did that just happen? Shake and bake.
Thats enough OT.
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That just happened. But for the record, please see: LeMans.

I haven't tried these setups, but from what I gather they can't be super great. I'm not trying to attack you on your tuning, but these are the types of setups that work on NFS games, not GT5P/FM2. I suggest you test out some of the other tunes that the "Garages" put up and see how they handle.
 
I frequently use tunes from other people in thje garages and love how most of the tunes are very good starting points to fine tune to your liking. You say these aren't as good as most other tunes? I have run 4 wide against GTP guys in that Z06 in HSR, But that EXAcT same suspension setup was the one I used for Fuji 750pp. The F40 is underpowered for 750pp and I still lead untill about lap 3-4 were Im trying to push as hard as possible and make myself error out. I have a FGT I'm tuning right now wich seems promising for the touge.
 
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Okay. Apparently I'm not getting anywhere so I'll put it simply. This type of setup is not "Tuning." It's maxing thing out, and hoping for the best. In no real world application of any racing would you see something like this.
 
xLarkins
Okay. Apparently I'm not getting anywhere so I'll put it simply. This type of setup is not "Tuning." It's maxing thing out, and hoping for the best. In no real world application of any racing would you see something like this.
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*cough* Nascar *cough* is real racing *cough* *hack*

I'm sorry.
 
yeah idk if PD is actually moddling the springs binding up but i run a very simillar strategy in the vette and blitz at daytona. They work every well i had a top 5 time untill the cheaters took over the daytona TT. I also run the same strategy with the blitz at HSR. you can really feel the car start to turn when the front end slams down.
 
xLarkins
Okay. Apparently I'm not getting anywhere so I'll put it simply. This type of setup is not "Tuning." It's maxing thing out, and hoping for the best. In no real world application of any racing would you see something like this.
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sorry for posting again but i just couldn't leave this alone. so you're saying that F1 teams don't shoot for the maximum cornering speed they can get? that top fuel teams don't try to get the maximum acceleration they can get out of the car, that nascar teams don't set the car up to get the maximum grip they can get turning left, or are all these not real racing?
 
zodicus
sorry for posting again but i just couldn't leave this alone. so you're saying that F1 teams don't shoot for the maximum cornering speed they can get? that top fuel teams don't try to get the maximum acceleration they can get out of the car, that nascar teams don't set the car up to get the maximum grip they can get turning left, or are all these not real racing?
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Yes. That's exactly what I said. I'm confused as to where you picked up "No one wants maximum cornering speed" out of my saying that coils coming to complete compression isn't a very good tuning strategy. If you think that it is, I'd be interested to see how many teams in how many motor sports run this type of extreme setup, because physics says this just doesn't make sense. No one I know that does any form of racing (Autocross, Rally Cross, Offroad, Circuit racing) runs super soft suspension, with the front/rear jacked up to an extreme. NASCAR may do it, not sure. I was never into many forms of circle track.

And for NASCAR not being a real motorsport? I think this is another instance of someone taking something out of context. Good to know you guys read so deep into my posts though, because I typed them out, and still couldn't find where I said that 👍
 
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Coil bind is a style of setup used in various levels of NASCAR racing. Coil bind setups utilize very soft front springs and very stiff rear springs to control the pitch attitude of the body.[1] This is in contrast with conventional setups which place the stiffer springs at the front of the car for superior mechanical grip, that is grip via the vehicle suspension and tires. Coil bind uses aerodynamics to produce grip.

As a car approaches the end of a straightaway, the downforce generated by the body of the car should lower the sprung weight until the coil springs compress until they bind and the suspension can no longer travel (hence the name).[2] The goal of coil bind is to keep the valence (or splitter if applicable) at the front of the car as low to the ground as possible to create an area of low pressure under the car. The result is similar to ground effects. Under braking, weight transfer causes more weight to shift forward as the vehicle decelerates. This helps to maintain the low-pressure area below the car by keeping the front of the car low to the ground. While coil bind setups do yield faster lap times, the cars are more sensitive to turbulence generated by nearby cars.
 
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Presumably this works on ovals due to there being relatively little directional change? I'm guessing it wouldn't work so well on somewhere like Suzuka where the front end can't keep up with the steering inputs?
 
Try the F40 out then. The Z06 will work on suzuka butit is not my setup for that track.
 
MeWhiteNoise
Presumably this works on ovals due to there being relatively little directional change? I'm guessing it wouldn't work so well on somewhere like Suzuka where the front end can't keep up with the steering inputs?
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I understand what you mean, however if 'front end' can't keep up with the steering inputs, then there's something wrong with your Car Tuning.;)
Rusty*
 

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