College Decision 2007

[Philly]

I know May 1st is still a long ways away, but I'm sure a lot of us can't help but think of college every so often. This thread is for us folks who are going on to college/uni/whatever next year. Maybe we can help each other out or seek guidance from the older folks around here who have been through this big decision. Just give what you are looking for and a few ideas, and maybe get some help.

Anyway, I'll start thing off. I am currently looking at three colleges seriously, and a few others loom in the back of my mind. I am looking into mechanical engineering with a German progran. It would also be good to be able to continue with my French

Hope College:👍 Liberal arts-style program is pretty appealing. I have a lot of family in the area. Very unique program.
👎 It isn't a devoted technical school. It is quite far from home.

Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology:👍 Excellent engineering program. Great German program. German students can study in Stuttgart, where Mercedes is, where I could get an internship because I want to work there.
👎 The campus kinda sucks. No girls. No French. Location sucks (Terre Haute, IN?)

Rensellaer Polytechnic Institute (haven't looked too much at this school, but hope to visit sometime.):👍 Engineering school, must have a good program. Close to some cool Eastern cities.
👎 Haven't been so I can't really describe any minuses.

The problem with all of these schools is that they are all pretty far away, so I couldn't bring a car with me. Because of this, I am keeping an eye on the local PNW schools. All of these also have weather I would die in.

Any suggestions?

 

[Kylehnat]

UW: excellent mechanical engineering program (and all engineering programs in general), Formula SAE, every foreign language under the sun, lots of girls, tuition is cheap (compared to private schools anyway), and it's close to home (more of a benefit than you'd think).

Also, I went there (which in no way affects my judgement), so you know it has to be top-notch .

 

[Philly]

I do not question the excelence of the UW. I have heard a lot of good things about it and know it has an excellent reputation. Ony problem is, it is a very large school and I really like the advantages a smaller school brings.

 

[Boundary Layer]

Of course, for an engineering degree you do want to have good professors and TA's - preferably ones with a good handle on your primary language. But well maintained lab equipment is also a must.

A large part of an engineering degree involves laboratory experiments to help you better visualize and understand physical problems. If the equipment you're using is subpar, it can leave a pretty big hole in your educational experience. If you can, try to get in contact with a few mechanical engineering students at the universities you're interested in and ask them what their opinion is of the lab sessions there.

I can tell you that the lab equipment of for the undergraduate mech eng degree at the University of Manitoba is absolute crap. Certain electives have had to be cancelled because necessary equipment is not working, and some core courses are offering videos of experiements because equipment cannot afford to be replaced. My ME Labs course reports involve more discussion about why results obtained with certain pieces of equipment are invalid or flawed, rather than meaningful interpretation and comparison of attained results.

Also, ask about the variety of elective options. This is speculation, but I think in general a large university can afford to offer more elective courses than a smaller one, thus permitting you to focus on topics you're truly interested in towards the end of your degree.

Just something to consider.

 

[Philly]

The other research I was thinking of doing would be to contact big companies and ask what grads from these schools are like.

 

[YSSMAN]

Hope College:👍 Liberal arts-style program is pretty appealing. I have a lot of family in the area. Very unique program.
👎 It isn't a devoted technical school. It is quite far from home.

Hope College? Like Hope College just outside of Grand Rapids, Michigan Hope College?

Hey, I know that place!

From personal experience through some of my friends, I'm a bit wishy-washy on the school. Certainly academically speaking going to a private school like that is a good thing, but compared to the other schools in and around the area, I wouldn't consider it to be the best choice.

If we were to compare Hope to the three other major private schools in the Grand Rapids area, I'd have to say that Calvin, Cornerstone, and Aquinas (my school) are far-better choices.

One big problem is that none of them really have dedicated technical courses, as most of them are the type that generally deal with theology, political science, history, and education for teacher certification.

...However you did mention German, and I MUST recomend Aquinas College (again, where I'm going) if you are at all interested in coming here to study...

[story]

At Aquinas, our Language department is headed by a former East-German, Professor Katrina Gross, and although she can speak most of the languages offered at AQ, she specializes in German. I have to say that no matter how much I eventually got sick of doing the homework, I loved the class, and I loved having her as a professor. She was always available for one-on-one help, and always had a great story to share about Germany no matter what the subject matter was in the class.

That said, AQ has an awesome study-abroad program for German students. You would take your first year classes at AQ, and then begin your 200-level class the year after, the first semester spent at AQ, the second in Tuebingen in South Western Germany. By the time you get back, you've pretty much gotten your degree in German, which is totally awesome.

Why didn't I do it? Money for one, that and I'm a Political Science major, so I only wanted to fulfill my requirements for a language, and German was what I was most interested in.

So what do I suggest? If you're looking at coming to West Michigan for school, I'd definitely recommend Aquinas College over Hope.

...But thats just my biased opinion...

 

[Philly]

I was mostly looking at those three and I am really fed up with college applications. Besides, the deadline is probably long past. That and the fact that I am way more interested in being an engineer later on.

 

[Sage]

You don’t have to apply to these schools until May 1st? Wow – that’s when my Statement of Intent to Register was due…

 

[YSSMAN]

You've got a while to get things submitted around here. When I applied at AQ I did it pretty late, but I got an acceptance letter within a week. That, and its free to apply, and the AQ folks were super-helpful with getting everything figured out. Plus, they literally shovel-out scholarships to people, no matter where you're from, to get you to come to their school. I have yet to apply for an outside scholarship to differ from what they are giving me, and this is a school that charges on average about $19K per year for tuition. Well, I did need one student loan this year, but that was for a stupid reason... But yes, they shovel out the scholarships...

...Brainstorm! Idea time!

You're looking at engineering, and if you're looking into Western Michigan schools, I have to bring up the big engineering school around here... Grand Valley State University.

Quite a few of my friends and co-workers are there, and even I was planning on attending GVSU (but I was wait-listed). Their engineering program is pretty good for a school that size, and because it isn't a trade-school, you know that you are going to get a better-quality education all the way around by the time you graduate.

A friend of mine from work is currently in the Engineering program right now, and she loves it. She spends a lot of time bouncing back and fourth between the Grand Rapids campus (I belive that is medical, legal, business, and engineering) and the Allendale campus (the main campus) during the week. Having everything split up is kinda cool actually, as it is only about a 15-20 minute drive between the two places, and to be completely honest, the Grand Rapids campus is a lot nicer than the one in Allendale... But even then, they are both really nice.

I first considered going to GVSU because of their growing credibility (based largely on their successes in NCAA football, local and state level interest) and their strong programs in so many different disciplines. Prices are pretty good there for credit hours, room and board seems to be pretty reasonable as well, however if you've got family, could you stay with them?

...Anyway, I figured it is worth mentioning as well...

West Michigan schools are awesome, as I really wouldn't want to go to any other schools out there. You get a pretty diverse range of people, you actually get to experience all four seasons, and you get to have the chance to live in a rapidly growing and changing city that isn't too far from the Lake, from the country, or any other "big city" (ie Detroit or Chicago).

...But like you said, Michigan is pretty far-away from Washington. The good news is that you've got family here, and hell, BMWteamPTG is from Greenville (pretty close), CAMAROBOY69 is just south of here, and I'm in Grand Rapids...

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

You don’t have to apply to these schools until May 1st? Wow – that’s when my Statement of Intent to Register was due…

I think it's usually the private schools that do that and maybe the lesser public ones.

 

[Philly]

You don’t have to apply to these schools until May 1st? Wow – that’s when my Statement of Intent to Register was due…

May first is national pick-which-college-you-are-going-to-go-to day. I was referencing the fact that us Seniors have to pick exactly what school we are going to then.

West Michigan schools are awesome, as I really wouldn't want to go to any other schools out there. You get a pretty diverse range of people, you actually get to experience all four seasons, and you get to have the chance to live in a rapidly growing and changing city that isn't too far from the Lake, from the country, or any other "big city" (ie Detroit or Chicago).

...But like you said, Michigan is pretty far-away from Washington. The good news is that you've got family here, and hell, BMWteamPTG is from Greenville (pretty close), CAMAROBOY69 is just south of here, and I'm in Grand Rapids...

Diversity?

On my visit out there, the only sign of diversity I saw was a "Church of God." Everything was the nth Reformed Church of Christ. I come from one of the most diverse places in the nation. 35% white, 25% latino, 20% asian, 10% black, 10% everything else. Beat that.

On the family out there, A large chunk of my dad's side is out there. There is a large group huddled around the Holland area, thus my interest in Hope and there are a few scattered around West Michigan, and maybe elsewhere. All Dutch, all a wee bit out there.

 

[YSSMAN]

May first is national pick-which-college-you-are-going-to-go-to day. I was referencing the fact that us Seniors have to pick exactly what school we are going to then.



Diversity?

On my visit out there, the only sign of diversity I saw was a "Church of God." Everything was the nth Reformed Church of Christ. I come from one of the most diverse places in the nation. 35% white, 25% latino, 20% asian, 10% black, 10% everything else. Beat that.

On the family out there, A large chunk of my dad's side is out there. There is a large group huddled around the Holland area, thus my interest in Hope and there are a few scattered around West Michigan, and maybe elsewhere. All Dutch, all a wee bit out there.

If you aren't Dutch in West Michigan, you're either Polish or German, or all of the above. Over on the Lake, it is pretty much all Dutch and German folks, obviously all of them White Protestants, and all part of the upper-middle-class.

...Grand Rapids is a bit different, but then again it largely depends on what part of the city you are in. Where I grew up in Grand Rapids (Forest Hills), it is pretty similar to Holland, mostly White Protestant kids with lots of money and nothing better to do but total their Dad's 911 and sell blow on the side to buy themselves whatever the hell they want...

But where I live now in GR (Kentwood), is pretty diverse. Certainly White folks are still predominantly the largest number of folks, but there are far-more minorities (particularly African Americans and Hispanics) than there are in Holland or Forest Hills.

Most of the schools around here vary quite a bit when it comes to diversity I guess. Grand Valley is going to have a pretty high number of minorities, and Aquinas is doing a lot better than Hope, Calvin, or Cornerstone on that front (we have a lot of Hispanic students coming from Mexico, Venezuela, Paraguay, etc on exchange or with family moves, a growing number of African Americans, but still not many...).

---

Either way, I find it kinda funny how this worked out. Kinda creepy how people can relate to one-another in some way.

---

But yes, I would still recommend Western Michigan schools. They're pretty darn good, and with family around, you can't go wrong...

 

[Philly]

I have a ton of people trying to get me to go to Hope, but I might apply to one of those others you mentioned just for kicks. Of course, deversity isn't much of a factor for me. It would be wierd to go to a hispanic-only school, or school with a whole bunch of white middle class boys though. How do all of these places compare to RHIT and RPI?

 

[Sage]

May first is national pick-which-college-you-are-going-to-go-to day. I was referencing the fact that us Seniors have to pick exactly what school we are going to then.

Wait, now I’m really confused – so you’re saying you have to submit your SIR by May 1st, right? Because it sounds like you’re soliciting opinions about where to apply for admissions, and it would seem a little late for that. Or am I completely off?

Keep something in mind: statistically, you’re very unlikely to keep your major, so make sure that you go to a school that’s good in a lot of other things too. This is particularly important for engineering, since it’s typically the most rigorous offering at a school – I know many people who’ve already dropped out of engineering, and this is only the second quarter. College puts a huge spin on everything you’ve ever done (I absolutely loved chemistry in high school, but here it’s a completely different beast and is by far my most difficult class – ten times harder than calculus). Don’t take that though as me insisting that you’ll change your major (I haven’t changed mine), but as Der Alta would say, make sure you have a backup plan. 👍

 

[1X83Z]

Rensellaer Polytechnic Institute (haven't looked too much at this school, but hope to visit sometime.):👍 Engineering school, must have a good program. Close to some cool Eastern cities.
👎 Haven't been so I can't really describe any minuses.

RPI is one of the best. I'd go there long before I went to the others on your list.

You're looking at engineering, and if you're looking into Western Michigan schools, I have to bring up the big engineering school around here... Grand Valley State University.

I'll never forget the time I saw a Renault Alliance on the Princeton University campus with Michigan license plates supporting Grand Valley State University. I think I still have the photograph I took.

 

[Philly]

Wait, now I’m really confused – so you’re saying you have to submit your SIR by May 1st, right? Because it sounds like you’re soliciting opinions about where to apply for admissions, and it would seem a little late for that. Or am I completely off?

Keep something in mind: statistically, you’re very unlikely to keep your major, so make sure that you go to a school that’s good in a lot of other things too. This is particularly important for engineering, since it’s typically the most rigorous offering at a school – I know many people who’ve already dropped out of engineering, and this is only the second quarter. College puts a huge spin on everything you’ve ever done (I absolutely loved chemistry in high school, but here it’s a completely different beast and is by far my most difficult class – ten times harder than calculus). Don’t take that though as me insisting that you’ll change your major (I haven’t changed mine), but as Der Alta would say, make sure you have a backup plan. 👍

Yes, May 1st is the day I have to submit my intent of attendance, or whatever that thing is called.

On switching majors, I'm not really aware of any other majors where I can work with cars and where I don't have to deal with English classes or business classes.

RPI is one of the best. I'd go there long before I went to the others on your list.

I'll never forget the time I saw a Renault Alliance on the Princeton University campus with Michigan license plates supporting Grand Valley State University. I think I still have the photograph I took.

You have a lot of names there. I might as well look into that school.

 

[YSSMAN]

You have a lot of names there. I might as well look into that school.

It is a pretty darn good school. They have increased their tuition prices a bit, and they have made it a bit harder to get in than it was before, but assuming that you did the ACTs in 23+ and was able to get a 3.0 GPA or more in HS, you shouldn't have a problem getting in.

As I mentioned before, a lot of my friends are there and they really like it. I've been to the campus more than enough times to know where some stuff is, and even I really like it (I almost went there over Aquinas, but chose not to).

I hope you like it too, it is a great school...

 

[Boundary Layer]

On switching majors, I'm not really aware of any other majors where I can work with cars and where I don't have to deal with English classes or business classes.

DO NOT underestimate the importance of language in engineering. Ultimately, it will be your ability to use language effectively to convey a technical situation to others. If you're doing a presentation for an idea/proposal/design of yours, you will be the expert and will have to be able to explain your thoughts in a coherent and intelligent fashion. I was required by my university to take four courses with a heavy focus on writing, language, and technical communication.

Business is also a large part of engineering (I'm supposed to be working on an engineering economics assignment as I type this). Given the choice between two proposed solutions to a problem, it's usually the one that makes the most dollars and sense (bad pun) after interest and salvage is considered that will be selected. In a lot of cases, senior level engineers are doing more managerial type work as opposed to engineering design/analysis.

And, you should probably keep a more open mind about what you eventually want to do as a career if you do go for some sort of engineering degree. Yes, automotive design is interesting and may be right for some people, but there's a multitude of other interesting topics that you'll discover during your degree (like heat transfer and thermodynamics 👍) and you'll make a lot more jobs available to yourself after graduation if you don't filter out the non-automotive options.

If you want something where you're guaranteed to work on cars and not have to do any English or business, becoming a Certified Auto Mechanic would be a safer choice.

 

[YSSMAN]

On switching majors, I'm not really aware of any other majors where I can work with cars and where I don't have to deal with English classes or business classes.

To elaborate on what Boundary had posted above, take my brother for example...

...He for the most-part never did very well in school, particularly English and Science classes. But, he will be going to a technical school next year called Washtenaw College in Ann Arbor, Michigan. They are the guys who built the Fivehundred GT-R concept, did that Chevelle for Overhaulin' on TLC, and helps with various SEMA projects for the Big Three. Although he wants to focus only on the automotive courses, he will have to take 'regular' classes to earn a degree. Like it or not, you're probably going to have to do the same. Sure, it is good to get certified for a given job, but actually having a degree gives you something to fall-back on should there not be an opportunity to do what you want to do.

 

[Boundary Layer]

I had a look at the curriculum for the Undergraduate Degree in Mechanical Engineering at the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, partly to compare it to the program I'm currently in, and just to see if it meets some of your criteria.

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/me/me-undergrad-curriculum.php

It looks almost identical to mine. The order of courses is quite different, but everything I've taken so far here seems to have its equivalent on that list there.

You'd have a rhetoric and composition course in your first year, just like I did.
Accounting Principles in second year - my program squeezes Engineering Economics into fourth year (or third year in a Civil degree).
You also have Statistics in second year, just as I did - this may or may not have some heavy business influences (mine did).
Technical Communications is, just as it sounds, a course on technical report writing and presentations.
Any of those Engineering Design courses/electives will more than likely have a large written and oral report associated with a large project. For me, the written component has always been worth >65% of the total project marks.

Trust me, language skill is important and will get you a long way. It's not all about calculus and dynamics (though, you'll get more than your fair share of that as well).

edit:
heh, wait, there is a difference. I have to write a thesis for my undergraduate degree and it appears that you don't there. Looks like I may be at the wrong university.

 

[Philly]

I was more looking at avoiding going to a business or english class every day. Sure I'm going to have to learn those in engineering, but they are not the focus of the major. I also know that I won't be able to get out of school without taking some classes I don't like.

That could be a problem with Hope; because it is a liberal arts school, I may be stuck in more language type classes. And those religion classes may be tough to get through.

As you can tell, I'm into making cool graphs, blowing things up, banging things together and looking at why things work. Math and science. That is my main motive to get into engineering. The ability to be with cars is just an awesome opportunity engineering provides.

 

[YSSMAN]

That could be a problem with Hope; because it is a liberal arts school, I may be stuck in more language type classes. And those religion classes may be tough to get through.

I'm not certain what the major differences are between Hope and Aquinas, however although they may be considered "religious schools" (AQ is 'catholic' but not really...), they usually only require one semester-long class... Or thats the case at AQ.

The Gen-Ed system in Michigan is pretty similar to your standard requirements for High School. At AQ we have to take at least two semesters of a foreign language, two semesters of humanities, one semester of religion/math/phys-ed/poli sci/history/art, and then the variances for your major factor in as well.

In most cases you won't have to have the same classes more than maybe twice a week, in some cases three times. It largely depends on Hope's views of credit hours, and much of it could be different than how we have it at AQ. I've currently got two classes on Monday and Thursday, and three classes on Tuesday and Friday. It isn't too hectic of a schedule, and should translate well enough for the next few semesters for the other classes that I will be needing to take.

...Grand Valley is a liberal arts college that would require most of the general-education classes that you could expect at any school in the country, but certainly would have a slightly different focus compared to that of Hope or AQ. They should allow for a greater focus on your presumed major, but then again, I'm really only knowledgeable from the information I had received prior to my decision not to attend, and my friends who are currently there now.

...Just be thankful that you aren't looking into Cornerstone or Calvin, as they are by-far the most religious schools that I know of in the state, and not only do they require a large number of religious classes, you are also required to attend services at least twice a week...

You want to talk about religious brainwashing, you'll find it there... (sad, several of my friends are at Calvin, several friends and bosses are either at Cornerstone or have graduated).

 

[Philly]

I had heard that at Gonzaga, a Catholic school, they make you take enough religion courses to cause a lot of students to take five years of schooling to get an engineering degree. That is my biggest issue with religion classes. They sound fun, don't get me wrong. Lots of debate. Woudl gen-eds do this too?

 

[YSSMAN]

Lots of debate. Woudl gen-eds do this too?

I've been spreading my gen-eds around at AQ, and although they do mandate a lot of them, I should be able to graduate within 4 years, although I may need to slow things down and push it to 4 1/2 or 5... We'll see. Thus far I only need to take two science classes, an art class, and one phys-ed class to get all of my gen-eds out of the way... Then I can focus on my Poli Sci stuff (God save my soul!) for my major, and some more history for my minor.

...It all depends on where you are. Aquinas is a 'Catholic' school, but they don't do a very good job of enforcing it. Most kids there are indeed Catholic, but I'd say that a very small amount are there for Theology as their major. A good number of us are there for Business, Accounting, Poli Sci, History, and surprisingly Sports Management... Oh, and we have a big Nursing program too...

 

[Philly]

I've been spreading my gen-eds around at AQ, and although they do mandate a lot of them, I should be able to graduate within 4 years, although I may need to slow things down and push it to 4 1/2 or 5... We'll see. Thus far I only need to take two science classes, an art class, and one phys-ed class to get all of my gen-eds out of the way... Then I can focus on my Poli Sci stuff (God save my soul!) for my major, and some more history for my minor.

True, but isn't engineering considered to be a tougher major that requires more work; which when combined to gen-eds would keep me imprisoned in college for more than four years. I'm trying to keep my sentence to a minimum.

 

[Kylehnat]

General requirement classes are a cakewalk compared to engineering classes. Also, at UW, engineers only had to take 40-45 credits of that crap, compared to the 90-100 that everyone else had to. It provided a nice balance of taking classes that I wanted to take (music theory, geography, etc), but not being forced to take too many of these liberal arts/humanities courses, which are unrelated to the major, and ultimately, a waste of time.

 

[Sage]

General requirement classes are a cakewalk compared to engineering classes.

Totally – everybody at this particular college within UCSD complains about the writing course and say that it’s their hardest course, but it’s by far my easiest class. It’s almost a bit of a relief compared to my “engineering GE” classes.

 

[YSSMAN]

True, but isn't engineering considered to be a tougher major that requires more work; which when combined to gen-eds would keep me imprisoned in college for more than four years. I'm trying to keep my sentence to a minimum.

I'm going to be honest and say that it really shouldn't worry you too much. I was in a rush to get things completed in four years at first, but after working myself to death the past four semesters, I think I'm going to be a bit more rational when it comes to picking classes.

...Yes, it is good to graduate in four years, but more often than not, people are taking 4 1/2 to 5 years in most majors and minors, and with engineering, that isn't a bad thing...

 

[Philly]

...Yes, it is good to graduate in four years, but more often than not, people are taking 4 1/2 to 5 years in most majors and minors, and with engineering, that isn't a bad thing...

But my wallet may become a bit thinner by taking 5 years of classes. I have gotten scholarships from schools that last only four years.