Competition To The Pontiac G6?

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Kent

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New Question...
Wondering about air filters. :D
I drive a 2006 Corolla. Nothing special is going on, no tuning or anything silly.
Still under warranty, over 50,000 left on warranty.
20,000 miles and the air filter was "dirty" today when I had my oil changed.

3 options...
Replace with cheap OE style part.
Replace with "good" air filter from part store.
Remove original, remove dust, re-insert original.

Which option should I take? :D
Thanks for the advice! :cheers:
(btw, I'd love to hear suggestions on who makes the best air filters... I hear the name K&N from time to time, are they worth it?)
Thanks again! :cheers:


======= Original Question ==============
Cold Air Intake... What does it really do?

The reason I ask... Well Saturday I got a urge to have a sporty car. Driving my Corolla just wasn't enough for me. I love the 'rolla's torque but it doesn't have the HP or the Suspension to run with a more sporty feel.

So for the sake of curiosity I went to the dealer I bought my Corolla at and said, do you have an XRS I can test drive?
They said no and pointed to the 161HP/163Ft.lb. 2900kg Scion TC.
I had fun with it, 5 speed manual, numbers from above... Struts in front, double wishbone in the rear, 205/55 17R tires...

The sport element is there although not as strongly as some may wish for.

With that in mind, the dealership is trying to work such a good deal on the TC that I may have my arm/ wallet twisted into a TC instead of my Corolla for the sake of having lower interest rates, more speed/ power, and less time needed to pay off the car.
In fact, it may work so well that my initial question takes hold... See, with all the options of the TC, in ordering one, I may skip most options and buy the Cold Air Intake and Exhaust as options to come on the car from the factory.

That said, what does a Cold Air Intake do exactly? How does it change the car's performance (more torque or more HP or what?)
Also, what's the word on the TC these days?
I know MT and C&D didn't like it much at all saying it didn't have driving feel but I've heard that sort of thing before (and felt it for myself the other day).

So just to recap...
Cold Air Intake? Scion TC?
Any and all thoughts are welcome.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. 👍 :cheers:
 
A cool air intake means that your engine 'breathes' cooler air - rather than the warm air that it would other wise breathe from the hot engine bay. The cold air increases the amount of oxygen in the mix - giving better combustion and therefore a little more power. You might find it sounds a little crisper too.

As for the Scion TC - as a Brit i wouldn't know!
 
Yep, the cold air intake is designed to take the cooler ambient air, while shielding the intake air from the warm engine, aswell usually coupled with a highflow air filter (Often cheap CAI's fail at doing some of these things).

I am not overly familiar with TC's as we don't get them here.
 
Yes, the CAI will increase peak hp and torque because the engine breathes cooler, denser air with less restriction. Assuming, of course, that the filter is correctly seperated from the hot underhood air.

But an undesirable side effect is that it may lead to stumbles/weak spots lower in the rev range. A stock intake usually has a large plenum volume which allows the engine to take a large gulp of air if you roll onto the throttle quickly. Without that plenum volume you might feel the engine hesitate slightly before picking up revs. Also the multiple lengths of tube incorporated into a stock intake boost torque because longer runners have a low resonant frequency, which means a sort of slight "natural" supercharging at low rpm's.

But, if it is a TRD-designed CAI, it's unlikely that it will have any of these design flaws.

As for the cat-back, it would be hard to go wrong. If you change the diameter of the headers you have to be careful, but changing a cat-back can only have a positive effect.
 
Thanks.
All sounds pretty well, the CAI makes perfect sense to me and should have from the get-go since I already knew of the thermodynamics of air related to density (only a little though :lol: ).
However, what I didn't know, and wanted to know was addressed thanks to the insight you all have provided.

It seems that CAI can make for a slow down in initial response (only a possibility and probably not with the TRD, but none the less)...
So that I didn't realize and much appreciate you all mentioning.
Credit on rep to all three. 👍
(except cracker because I've given to him too recently)

Any way, on that note, only the TC question comes up and I've seen it discussed to some extent in another thread (found it yesterday about 9 pages back or something).
Feel free to mention anything about the TC or important issues such as the Avenesis (sp?) Euro Camry replacement (for what I understand).
That is the Chasis used and the engine is version of the US spec '07 Camry engine (producing 161hp and 163ft-lb.).

Thanks for any other comments.
Later :cheers:
 
Kent
Credit on rep to all three. 👍
(except cracker because I've given to him too recently)
Click to expand...

Although i'm not quite sure what i did to deserve it (previously) i thank you for the thought ;)


Do Scion quote any improved performance figures for the CAI upgrade? - I'm sure there are Scion owners forums out there somewhere - perhaps you could have a poke around and see if the upgrade is worth while from someone who has had it done already?
 
Bringing this back to ask another question. :D
Searched for air filter and didn't find much but I did see this so I figured I might as well ask another question in the thread I made so long ago.

The question is in the first post... It's about air filters. :D
Thanks for taking a look. :bowdown:
 
Most tests on air filters have found the standard paper / cloth-fibre filter that comes with the car is as good as any normal after market filter.

Try this for an interesting read.

However, I always use an aftermarket sponge filter so I only have to clean it every 60-70,000 km.
 
Kent
3 options...
Replace with cheap OE style part.
Replace with "good" air filter from part store.
Remove original, remove dust, re-insert original.
Click to expand...


Best bet is to replace it with an OEM style filter made by K&N or one of the other top brand companies. K&N usually makes what ever funky shape your OEM filter is with their filter material. I wouldn't bother with a cold air setup, any gains/losses on an otherwise stock engine will be negligible, not to mention prices can sometimes be absurd for a longer chrome intake pipe and a cheap filter.
 
Somebody,
Very interesting, I appreciate the reading (+rep to you for the link). 👍
After looking over the material and thinking about it for myself, I think I may just stick to OEM filters instead of switching to a "high performance" filter.
Not much of a point to the switch but I'm always looking to keep the car running as smoothly as possible... At this point, it might be best to worry about keeping the air clean more than increasing the air flow. :ouch:

backspace, the cold air question is rather old.
Although I appreciate the advice, it is no longer much of an issue... For that matter though, the CAI would have been a factory option and down here in the deep south the air temperature is so high that a CAI would probably make a big difference (very, very hot and humid here in Louisiana).
 
Basically the Scion TC is the "poor-boy's" Celica.:D
Similar performance, both are good looking, but the Scion's slightly higer roofline may make it more comfy for back seaters over 4 feet tall.
You can also option out a Scion pretty well and stay well under $20K.
And the option sheet is pretty long...
The numbers aren't "all that" but one of the things that I've found, is the car that gets "slammed" by R & T, C & D, MT, and the rest, may be the least "sporty" but tends to cost less, has better fuel economy, and can be enjoyed at engine speeds under 5500 RPM.
The "experts" may not like it, but you do, and it would be you living with it.👍

Plus, I doubt Peter Egan, Csaba Csera, or any other of the staff writers for the car mags will camp out on your doorstep in protest.
If Egan does show up, remind him that while he may have a Boxster, his daily driver is a Pontiac Vibe.

edit:
On researching:
The Corolla, while not terribly exciting, has an EPA mileage rating of 38-41 MPG highway.
The Scion is rated at 30-31 hwy.
I would still go for the Scion, if you can pay it off sooner.
It must be a heck of a difference on the APR as the Corolla lists for $1000-2500 less than the TC.
Yeah 8-10 mpg is a big deal if you're talking about 20 mpg vs 30 mpg. But over 30 MPG, IMHO, it becomes moot.
Of course, I'm in the big middle of my "mid-life" crisis, so I'm gonna choose the sportier car on principle.:lol:
 
Haha Gil.

From what I have heard, people actually traded in their Celica's to get a tC (yes, lower case 't' ;)) due to the cost vs performance and such. Plus their is that TRD supercharger somewhere out there.

Personally, I would go with a Celica GT-S, being 500 lbs lighter, but thats me being a weight snob. I also prefer the Celica's look, but you aren't going to get a good deal from a dealership for a used one, so take the tC. Yer youngish, so live it up :dopey:
 
Oh yeah, on the other question.
I never dyno'd it, but I put a K & N filter on "Tonka" shortly after I bought her.
Granted, a 2.3L Ranger is no paragon of power, but the "seat of the pants" dyno noted a difference. Plus, my gas mileage went from 23 to 25, within a couple tanks. I manage to see 27 a time or two, as well.
My son is driving it now, and I have no idea what he's getting.
Last time I had it out, I did note an ability to bawl a tire on take off that wasn't there when I was driving it all the time.

Oh, keep the old filter. You'll need to put it back in when you take the K & N out to clean and re-lube.
The directions say the K & N needs to dry out before you lube, then after you lube it needs to sit for another 24-hrs before going back into the car.
 
Hi, I'm looking for some advice.

What could be considered competition to the Pontiac G6 in both price and function?
Four doors, well under $30,000... 4 or 6 cylinder engine, etc etc...

The car must be a new car, nothing used.

Thanks for the advice, I look forward to seeing what you all think fits the bill. :D
 
Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Mazda 6, Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu (the new, not-crappy one), Saturn Aura, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Dodge...eh just leave the Chryslers alone.

That's about all I can think of. The Accord is the best. The Altima is the fastest. The 6 is probably the most fun to drive. The Fusion will get you looks. The Toyota is ugly as balls and actually more cheaply built than the last generation. The new Malibu isn't out yet but promises to me nice. The Saturn is cool. The Hyundai is cool too, especially if you want to cruise at 143 mph. I don't know anything about the Optima. And just leave the Chryslers alone.
 
Keef
Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Mazda 6, Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu (the new, not-crappy one), Saturn Aura, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Dodge...eh just leave the Chryslers alone.

That's about all I can think of. The Accord is the best. The Altima is the fastest. The 6 is probably the most fun to drive. The Fusion will get you looks. The Toyota is ugly as balls and actually more cheaply built than the last generation. The new Malibu isn't out yet but promises to me nice. The Saturn is cool. The Hyundai is cool too, especially if you want to cruise at 143 mph. I don't know anything about the Optima. And just leave the Chryslers alone.
Click to expand...

^ Basically what he said. Except I'd switch the Accord and Sonata around.
 
Keef
Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Mazda 6, Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu (the new, not-crappy one), Saturn Aura, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Dodge...eh just leave the Chryslers alone.

That's about all I can think of. The Accord is the best. The Altima is the fastest. The 6 is probably the most fun to drive. The Fusion will get you looks. The Toyota is ugly as balls and actually more cheaply built than the last generation. The new Malibu isn't out yet but promises to me nice. The Saturn is cool. The Hyundai is cool too, especially if you want to cruise at 143 mph. I don't know anything about the Optima. And just leave the Chryslers alone.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't think I could have said it any better myself. Although, with the new Accord coming out, not to mention the new Chevrolet Malibu, that list my get shaken up a bit.

A brief summation of my thoughts;

- The GM Siblings:
Generally speaking, I'd call the G6 the weakest link of the Epsilon cars now that the Malibu is being refreshed. Overall, I'd still call the Saturn Aura the outright best choice given the European design and suspension tune, but not having seen the Malibu since Chicago back in February, I'd love to give it a closer look.

- The Ford Siblings:
As I've said quite often here, we nearly bought a Mazda 6i not too long ago, but decided against it. The ride is a little rough, the interior plastics are a bit behind the times now, but by-God is it fun to drive. I have yet to drive a Fusion, but I really like the looks of the car inside and out, and it is certainly one of the best "American" cars you can buy right now. I'd consider waiting for the new Mazda, but given that Ford will pretty much hand you a Fusion with $3K off the sticker, you take what you can get...

- Chrysler's Kids:
Its been said, they suck. Yes, the Avenger is better than the Sebring, but it isn't as though its that much better. Stay away. Stay far away. If you want a Chrysler, buy a Mitsubishi Gallant. You might be surprised by the quality of that car...

- Honda Darling:
I've always liked the Accord, as its damn-near perfect. The new car is supposed to be quite good, but its a big-ass car now (bigger than the Camry). Get an old one while they're still there, you won't be disappointed.

- Toyota's ****:
I hate this car. I hate this car. I hate this car. I hate this car. I hate this car. I hate this car. I hate this car. You'd be better off burning your money and buying a Suzuki Forenza... Boring, ugly, not built that well anymore, poor-quality materials, no longer a class-leader.

- Nissan's Whip:
The Altima in previous form was a good car everywhere but the interior. The new car uses the basic chassis goodness and finally fixes that original issue, and best of all maintains the fun inside and out. Granted, it isn't for everyone. If the Altima is "exciting," the Accord is a "delight," and the Toyota is "boring," the Pontiac would squeeze in somewhere closer to the Accord, under the Altima (on GTP and GXP models of course...).

- The Koreans:
The Hyundai is a great car. The Kia is a pretty-good car. They're both cheap, they both drive well, both are built better than some other Japanese models (Toyota, I'm looking at YOU), and did I mention that they're CHEAP? God knows what the resale value is though...

- The underdog, that costs a lot:
Lastly, the VW Passat. Technically the Passat is lined up with the Saturn Aura, but nevertheless, the G6 competes against it. Basic Passats are quite lovely, and generally appeal more to those who want a bit more sport, but don't want to sacrifice too much for comfort. They're expensive if you order anything on them though, so if you can avoid the options, they're wonderful...
 
Well, let me ask...
Would it make a difference if I was to say this car would be for "parents"?
Would that change the overall value of one car .vs. another?
Something like a Mazda6 may be highly valuable to people such as yourselves who only value the exciting driving experience but to 50-60y/o people that might not be the most important thing... So with that in mind, what would you all say with parents in mind?
 
Town Car. Get them a Town Car. They will absolutely love it. It's American, it's classy, it's not fraught with obsessive tech like the Cadillacs, it's huge, not crazy expensive, and comfortable as hell.

Plus, every old guy wants a Town Car.


But the Town Car is more expensive than the G6 and its competitors. I can tell you that the G6 isn't for old people, as my mom owns one. The steering is really heavy. That was her first and seemingly never-ending complaint. The Saturn is sprung pretty stiffly too, and has the same steering. Both the Fusion and 6 are also sporting, along with Nissan. Really, a base model Accord, Camry (I think they ride like butter), or Passat would be best for old people. Old people like to be comfortable.
 
Well, if you're looking for a sedan that is about G6 sized for older folks, I'd say it pretty much comes down to the Chevrolet Malibu (the 2008 model) and the Toyota Camry. Obviously you know which model I'd champion here, as I really don't consider the Camry a strong force in the market any longer. The new Chevy should be the same size, cheaper (base models will start well-under $20K), and stand a very good chance of having extremely high-quality materials, given of course the revolution GM has been having with their interiors.

The Malibu by comparison to the G6 and the Aura will be quite "soft," given that it must be the everyman's sedan. Bob Lutz has spoken volumes over how well-built and well-designed this car is, saying how well this car will be able to please those looking for an average sedan at $20K, or a luxurious $35K cruiser.

They should be arriving at dealers soon, as I do know all of the dealers are going through new product training at the moment.
 
:indiff:-> Well I don't know about the Malibu, and I don't see it as a force to be reckon with still. While it still looks good on the pictures, but I had bad experieces on 'photogenic' interiors with various cars that are too many to name. And the Malibu looks bloated, maybe its just me, ALL mid-sizer cars here in the US except the Mazda6 and the Subie Legacy looks bloated.
 
Compared to the Camry, I'd consider this a threat:





Take a look at the high-resolution interior shot, its pretty clear that GM means business these days...
 
^ Sorry to break your mood, but I just took your advice and taken a peep on the Hi-Res interior shot. But I see some mis-aligned trim fittings on the center console and that lid on top of the dash looks loose and cheap. And as what I said earlier, pics don't impress me much, I have to see it in person, plus drive it to see good it really is. All of this are just eye candy for now :indiff:

-> I'm with you though, I also don't like the Camry personally. The ('07) Accord is still my benchmark in my book. :)
 
The Vanishing Boy
The ('07) Accord is still my benchmark in my book. :)
Click to expand...

I completely agree 110%. The design is outstandingly old, but its amazing how well it has held-up against the competition. I drove an EX V6 and it pretty much set the bar for what I expect in a new car.

This being said, the Chevy looks like its taking the soft-touch plastics out of the VUE and Aura, turning it up a bit, and grabbing a bit of Cadillac's plastic while they're at it. Photos never show all of it, but if its anything like what they've been building towards (again, I point to the VUE as a yardstick), it should be quite good indeed.
 
- The GM Siblings:
The G6 is now, and always was, a waste of the chassis it was on. As was the old Malibu. I can't stand the look of the new Malibu, especially after seeing it in person, so I say the Aura is the best on here. So sum up: Aura. Stay away from anything else by GM.

- The Ford Siblings:
The Mazda 6 is said to be the best here, and I can relate, but don't agree. With Ford essentially handing away Fusions, and considering the cars have similar driving manners, I'd say go for that one. However, I personally say get the Lincoln MXZ/Zephyr if you want a Mazda 6-based car. They start at nearly 30k, yes, but they arguably look far better and have nicer interiors. They also all come with the 3.5L engine, which you can't get in the Fusion or the Mazda.
Otherwise, get the Taurus Limited AWD.
Wrap up: Lincoln MKZ or Taurus Limited AWD. Those two are the best. Get a Fusion if you wanna drive the prices down.

- Chrysler's Kids:
If you have to have one, get the Avenger. I'd stay away from both, though.
Remember, however, that 30 grand can get you either a loaded Charger SXT or a dealer incentives equipped base Charger R/T.
Wrap up: If you don't want RWD, stay away from Dodge. If you are okay with it, get a Charger SXT.

- Honda Darling:
The Accord is still arguably the diamond of this segment, so I'd look at this. Or wait until the car is redesigned next year. I personally think the redesign will make the car worse, however.
Wrap up: Get it now or stay away.

- Toyota's Twins:
While I'm sure everyone knows of my opinion of this car, I'll merely say you can do much better in this segment than what Toyota delivered.
The Avalon, on the other hand, is everything the Camry should be but isn't, and is a much better car than the Camry. But as good as the Taurus? I don't know.
Wrap up: If you want a Camry, get a Fusion, MKZ or an Accord. Or an Aura. Or an Azera. If you want an Avalon? Get one.

- Nissan's Whip:
The Nissan's are always fun to drive cars with terrible interiors, and I don't know anything else about them. Wrap up: Ask someone else.

- The Koreans:
Probably the real underdog, I'd say that the Koreans are good, especially the Sonata and Optima (both of which could be fully loaded for under 30 grand). The Optima's top engine sucks, though. The Azera and Amanti are also very good, but larger and better value than a fully loaded . But again, the Hyundai is way better.
Wrap up: Get the Azera or Sonata. Stay away from the Optima (because of crappy engine) or the Amanti (because it is crap next to the Azera).

- The underdog, that costs a lot:
The Passat costs too much for what it delivers, and the Jetta is too small. If you want luxury in this segment, stick to the MKZ. If you could get the Passat VR6 for under 30K, I would turn on the MKZ like you wouldn't believe. But you can't, so I won't.

Overall Wrap-up:
I'd say get either the Aura, Azera, Sonata, MKZ/Fusion, Taurus, Avalon or Accord. I would get the MKZ, most likely. If I was an old person I would get the Taurus.
 
Well, the problem certainly is that the G6 covers a bit too much territory to narrow it down easily. The sub-$20K to mid-$30K range is a wide one indeed, so we'd likely have to consider more about the type of driving they (the buyers) expect to do, what kind of cargo (or passengers) they'd expect to carry, and a bit more specifically how much money they'd want to spend.

My guess is that the Aura, Taurus and Accord would pretty much make up the top-three.
 

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