Confusion about tuning FF road cars (450pp)

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by viotunes, May 10, 2016.

  1. viotunes

    viotunes

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    Hey everyone,

    this is the first thread I'm creating on this forum.

    Let me start off by saying that I've read through a lot of tuning guides on this forum and I generally find all the advice very applicable on every car except for front wheel drive cars at 450pp. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but somehow the default tune tends to be close to fastest and any other change I make will only reduce the tune's grip in some way (either on the corner entry or exit). I can't seem to make any noticeable gains on my laptime either.

    I have multiple theories for why this could be, one of them being that my driving style just isn't right. But I also think that I'm misunderstanding something about tuning these cars. I tend to make the front rather soft and keep the rear end more stiff in an attempt to reduce the understeer, my LSD settings tend to be very low too. I've tried changing some of these settings and doing it differently but that tends to give me slower or equal laptimes. I'm running Sports tires on all my tunes. I've tried mostly 90s JDM cars like the Honda CRX del-sol, Honda CRX SiR, Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R etc.

    I've also considered that these cars are simply not meant to run under these conditions so the tires can never have the grip they'd need to make the car run well. Or maybe I'm just bad at picking cars.

    So my question is how you guys like to tune FF cars and what I should be looking out for when tuning mine. I just feel like my approach is the wrong one...
     
    Stewyripper likes this.
  2. True-blue-8

    True-blue-8

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    Sounds good, but make sure the springs are fairly stiff. Rear needs to be stiffer but they should both have high settings anyway. ARB i run about 4/5. But most of how the car behaves comes from my driving, rather than tuning ability
     
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  3. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Last edited: May 10, 2016
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  4. demonchilde

    demonchilde

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    From what I have tested, just about 1 out of 5 FF's throw off the curve.
    Meaning 4 out of 5 can all be very similar settings wise when done tuning, but that 1 car will need completely different set up.
    You were probably on the right track but got thrown off your thinking by hitting one of those. Or even worse, started learning on one, lol.
    Try a few tunes from the garages around here, see which garage has a similar drive style to you. Anything, doesn't have to be FF. Just check for style.
    Then grab an FF tune 'that you've already worked on' and take note of the different things they did.
     
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  5. viotunes

    viotunes

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    Thanks for the responses, I'll try it with slightly stiffer springs, some different tune ideas and different cars.

    @OdeFinn Isn't the Spoon Civic classed as a race car or am I confusing it with another one? I will try that tune, thanks.
     
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  6. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Keep the springs balanced (use the little blue bars if you haven't messed with the weight distribution) rather than soft/hard as this will give the car a more natural feel. The overall stiffness/softness is generally down to what tyres you're running, the stiffer it is the less grip you'll have but the more responsive to input it'll be so basically you want it as responsive as the tyres will allow without taking away grip.

    The dampers will help shape most of the characteristics but it is important to think in pairs:

    • Front Damper Compression + Rear Damper Extension = Braking/corner entry behaviour
    To make the car more stable at the rear on entry have Rear Extension higher than Front Compression, to make it less stable and easier to rotate set Rear Extension lower than Front Compression.

    • Front Damper Extension + Rear Damper Compression = Acceleration/corner exit behaviour
    During corner exit you want to be keeping as much weight over the front wheels as possible in order to provide traction for turning and power delivery. You generally want these as high as you can get without negatively affecting the inside/outside wheel balance *

    *when cornering you will transfer weight away from the inside wheel and onto the outside, if your outside tyre is letting go (smoking or turning yellow/red on the indicator) then you are either transferring too much weight onto it or not transferring enough weight on to it. Systematically raise and lower Compression and Extension separately until you find improvement or loss.



    Other useful tips for getting better rotation out of FF's include the standard removal of camber (camber seems to kill grip so only use on the rear in an FF) and bringing toe back to 0 before beginning the tuning process. Raising the front end higher than the rear is always an efficient way of improving front end grip, a bit of Toe Out (-) on the rear can improve rotation no end but be careful as it can make the car a bit fidgety if there is too much. Try a stiffer front ARB rather than the more traditional stiff rear, having a stiff front and wobbly back end can really improve the chuckability of a car.


    Give this on a try and see if you like it, one of my favourite FF's in the game:
    Mazda2 '03

    :tup:
     
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  7. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Not racecar, but maybe not liked on online rooms, because it's so quick on 450pp.
    But that suspension style on that my tune can be used for most FWD cars, getting liftoff oversteer etc.
    So try as "practise" car, if it suits your driving style I may assist for more on other FWD cars.
     
    Stewyripper likes this.
  8. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Please read through pages 141 and 142 of my garage when you have spare time ( read 143 onwards for more LSD infos ), some infos about tuning, discussion about damper, LSD and some posted setup if you are keen to try them, make sure to read the notes, the 240SX HKS has specific damper option that may give you insight on how simple change can alter a car handing.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...8-totw-ruf-rgt-lsd-vettec6zr1.294814/page-141

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...8-totw-ruf-rgt-lsd-vettec6zr1.294814/page-142

    There's a damper tuning phase reference list that may be useful on page 142 and my simple damper workflow on page 141.

    @OdeFinn also added more after those quoted posts on page 141.
     
  9. demonchilde

    demonchilde

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    You know, THIS is why I like it here. The second someone needs help, everyone drops what they are doing to lend a hand if they can.
    There is not enough of this in the world.
     
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  10. coryclifford

    coryclifford

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    Raise the front ride height, slam the rear.
     
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  11. MrGrado

    MrGrado

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    lots of rear toe out for FF.
     
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  12. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Don't forget an agressive LSD, 5/35/5 at min is what out on my FF cars. That way it's trying to rotate on throttle too
     
    viotunes likes this.
  13. viotunes

    viotunes

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    45
    As demonchilde said, super happy with all the responses and cant wait to get back tuning.

    This seemed counterintuitive to me since I felt like high values would just reduce front grip on corner exit and therefore create understeer. Do you have an example tune where I can check out the way it works?
     
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  14. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    If you spin up the outside tire yes it can cause understeer.
    Sicoroo R Race built stable corners well.
    Mini Coopet S '11
    TT built very fast but a tad unstable.
    Thouse are two my fastest FF cars.
     
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  15. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Modulating throttle helps a lot with high accel LSD, most FF car with 450PP are high on torque/power considering the usual tire width/size and compound fitted, so unless 450PP FF has SS tire fitted, SH or SM may still needs throttle modulation of out slow corners.
     
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  16. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    If you can get rid of the wheelspin using a more open diff then go ahead but if, as so often is the case, you can't really get rid of it entirely then you're better off with a higher Accel as it will give more positive and predictable drive out of the corners :tup:
     
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  17. Wydopen

    Wydopen

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    Yes, FF cars are known for unloading the inside front tire during cornering. A higher accel value will help counteract this. As was mentioned before, if you are frying the inside tire, add accel. Try to keep decel and initial fairly low. If the initial is too high, the car may jerk on corner exit when the Diff kicks in. If the decel is to high, the car won't rotate as well on corner entry. I usually run mine low in the back with heavier springs in the back as well as at least a little toe out. There is definitely good info in this thread.
     
    Otaliema likes this.