Content and quality vs release date

[BradLTL]

Yes, there are similar threads...

As I lurk through the forum and the comments on the news updates, I've noticed increasing negative feedback. It seems to stem from the lack of a release date. So, I ask you what would you rather have: an average to good game soon, or a great to perfect game later?

The poll shows a hypothetical game review score with a corresponding release date... which would you pick?

Edit: (from post below)
For the sake of argument, lets assume the hypothetical game review score is what you would grade it, not what mags and websites provide.

 

[Jarmo]

I'm pretty sure it's a great to perfect game as it is.

Just release it in a couple of months.

 

[analog]

A game review score isn't usually based on the time it took to develop, it is judging a game on its merits and faults not punishing because we as fans had to wait a long, long time.

Edit; i saw it the wrong way, still don't see it as a relevant choice however, we get what is given and don't have to make a choice if the quality is downgraded for a quick release.
PD would never make an inferior product just to get it on the market as soon as possible.

 

[Griffith500]

Game review scores are so variable / prone to bias - but I suppose there's no alternative to measure one's satisfaction...

Anyway, I expect that if it released by the end of June, it'd still pull 85+
Hence I'm stuck as to where I should vote - I'll go with the number.

 

[BradLTL]

My point is, if it were lacking in some features/polish/content but you could have it sooner would that be ok?

Or would you rather wait until it a better/more complete product?

For the sake of argument, lets assume the hypothetical game review score is what you would grade it, not what mags and websites provide.

 

[eSZee]

Yes, there are similar threads...

As I lurk through the forum and the comments on the news updates, I've noticed increasing negative feedback. It seems to stem from the lack of a release date. So, I ask you what would you rather have: an average to good game soon, or a great to perfect game later?

The poll shows a hypothetical game review score with a corresponding release date... which would you pick?

I'm not entirely sure that is relevant to the situation. I personally, based on Kaz's statements, believe the game is finished. PLus they've had more than enough time to release a game that was up to Kaz's standards.

 

[TokyoDrift]

You make the fatal mistake in assuming that there is a direct correlation between the time a game takes to develop, and the score it receives... Yeah, I know, it's a bit of fun and all hypothetical, but for what? I want the game as soon as is realistically possible, and I hope for it to be a game worthy of a high score.

 

[Interpol-007]

This is totally pointless.
If the game was to be release today or in 2011 it will make no difference in the score. As far as i know the game is not being delay due to technical reason, yes a few thing might improve but it will make no difference at the end.

Remember GT4 was delayed, and online and drag racing was taken out.

Please stop making this type of threads, i don't want a PD representative to look at this and delay the game even further.

 

[overheating]

If you were to ask me when I want the game, I would of course say NOW. If you were to ask me what quality I want the game to be, I would of course say 100%. However, neither of these things are within my control, so I will take it when I can get it, and will love whatever it is.

That being said, I (for one) believe that Kaz was right in saying they can release the game whenever they want. I would bet that, by now, the game is at a point that they (PD) would call it 99-100%. I am sure there will always be things that might have been overlooked, but that is why waiting a couple more months isn't a bad thing for us GT consumers. That the game is essentially done, and waiting to be released means that PD could be preparing more content for us. If they are not doing this, then they are surely playing it and looking for glitches and or tweaking the game to perfection.

 

[Dan_]

The thread it's quite interesting, but the Poll options are not up to it. Game reviews sometimes (no, not sometimes, very often) are biased, I've watched a Forza 2 VS GT5P comparison, and the guys gave Forza's graphics 82 and GT5P 84 of 100, that's ridiculous. Also, if the reviewer is a non-GT player he will probably complain about the physics, and then he will complain about the depth of the game ( "You can never finish it, frustrating.."), and there will be always something to complain. Otherwise, he would say the game it's too simple and there we go again.

I believe the game is finished, no matter what they still wanting to do, if they can't accomplish this in five years, how can they do it in a matter of months? Impossible. We already have this "quality" you're mentioned mate, we tested the physics and I'm sure 90% of the players around here liked it, we saw the slightly improved graphics and textures, discovered some new tracks and some other relevant things.

So 100 points, and release as soon as possible, must be an option.

 

[Forgetful]

So it's not at all possible that a 99-100 scoring game can be released sooner than Next year?

Correct answer not available.

 

[BradLTL]

You make the fatal mistake in assuming that there is a direct correlation between the time a game takes to develop, and the score it receives...

There may not be a direct correlation to "score" but there is most definitely a correlation to content, feature set and quality.

Score may take into account a fun factor or personal interest element that is intangible, so there are some liberties taken in that respect.

And with it related specifically to GT5, none of us know what the situation is regarding the game or the state it is in. It's all just a guess at this point.

 

[Lucas]

IMO, this game should already be a 100 in every possible gamesite. Look at Forza 3, for example. We can see a lot of faults (though being an awesome game in my book), such as bugs, "bad graphics", etc. And what scores has it earned so far? And that with half the time GT5 has been in developoment. Put like this, around 1000 cars, breath taking graphics, great physics (judging from what I have read), and a lot of other things it's basically impossible it is not a 100. In fact, I will laugh my 🤬 off if it doesn't score a 100 in every possible way.

 

[Interpol-007]

100% if release now.

 

[analog]

In general when reading reviews, whether it's for games, music, movies, books, etc. it's always sensible to first get some info on the reviewer him- or herself to know what other things they like, to see if you even got something in common tastewise in the first place.
And completely unbiased reviews are probaly in itself hypothetical.

 

[BradLTL]

So it's not at all possible that a 99-100 scoring game can be released sooner than Next year?

There are all kinds of possibilities in real life, my intent is to ask you to prioritize the score against the timing. What is more important to you individually?

If I had included an option that said "Score: 100; Release: ASAP", then this thread would have been irrelevant because everyone would have selected it.

I voted for the 85, but in hindsight I think I would have choose the 100... I have other 85ish games (Dirt2, NFS:Shift)

 

[TokyoDrift]

There may not be a direct correlation to "score" but there is most definitely a correlation to content, feature set and quality.

Score may take into account a fun factor or personal interest element that is intangible, so there are some liberties taken in that respect.

And with it related specifically to GT5, none of us know what the situation is regarding the game or the state it is in. It's all just a guess at this point.

Long development does not necessarily translate to more content and features, and more content and features does not necessarily correlate to higher scores.

To be honest, how things correlate to each other is irrelevant anyway. Most people here want the game as soon as possible, and to be as high-a-quality product as possible. You are asking people what they would rather compromise on, and there really is no basis for it. I don't want any compromises if I can help it, but I can't help it as I have no control over it. So...

 

[Jarmo]

In general when reading reviews, whether it's for games, music, movies, books, etc. it's always sensible to first get some info on the reviewer him- or herself to know what other things they like, to see if you even got something in common tastewise in the first place.
And completely unbiased reviews are probaly in itself hypothetical.

And you should pay more attention to what the review is saying, and not so much on the final score because from the facts the review gives you can make your own desicion wether it's a game you are going to like or not.

People these days stare too much at the given numerical score and ignore the actual review part.

 

[Griffith500]

In general when reading reviews, whether it's for games, music, movies, books, etc. it's always sensible to first get some info on the reviewer him- or herself to know what other things they like, to see if you even got something in common tastewise in the first place.
And completely unbiased reviews are probaly in itself hypothetical.

True enough, but in a way that's like asking a rapist if they think rape is OK...
Sorry for the tasteless example, and I'm not making any accusations / insinuations - simply muddying the picture still further!

Sure it's good to read a review of an RPG by some dood who's crazy about RPGs, but that's not how I got into them - sometimes varied viewpoints are better.
That's why I read several reviews, by different people who "specialise" in different things etc. not to mention asking friends whose tastes I understand / know of.

I'll be satisfied with GT5 (hopefully...) when it gets here - I would rather wait until features were polished, but I thought that was what the March release date was for. Until we know why the game was delayed, I think it'll be hard to "value" any extra development time accurately.

 

[analog]

True enough, but in a way that's like asking a rapist if they think rape is OK...
Sorry for the tasteless example, and I'm not making any accusations / insinuations - simply muddying the picture still further!

Sure it's good to read a review of an RPG by some dood who's crazy about RPGs, but that's not how I got into them - sometimes varied viewpoints are better.
That's why I read several reviews, by different people who "specialise" in different things etc. not to mention asking friends whose tastes I understand / know of.

That is a tasteless example and not at all what i meant to suggest or imply, i didn't suggest reading only a RPG review by someone only interested or knowledgable about RPG's or similar.
I just meant for example when i read a review about a new album from my favourite band i will try to see if the same reviewer in general shares my taste in music somewhat before i judge his judgement.
If he does, and the same applies to taste ( not genres ) in general i find, i will take his judgement more serious than someone with a musical taste i despise.

 

[hardvibes]

The poll shows a hypothetical game review score with a corresponding release date... which would you pick?

IMO it's not even "hypothetical", it's totally wrong and senseless.
I don't vote.

 

[Interpol-007]

True enough, but in a way that's like asking a rapist if they think rape is OK...
Sorry for the tasteless example, and I'm not making any accusations / insinuations - simply muddying the picture still further!

Sure it's good to read a review of an RPG by some dood who's crazy about RPGs, but that's not how I got into them - sometimes varied viewpoints are better.
That's why I read several reviews, by different people who "specialise" in different things etc. not to mention asking friends whose tastes I understand / know of.

I'll be satisfied with GT5 (hopefully...) when it gets here - I would rather wait until features were polished, but I thought that was what the March release date was for. Until we know why the game was delayed, I think it'll be hard to "value" any extra development time accurately.

What!!!!!! do you still believe in PD? Do they still have some credibility left?

If 3D, Move, or marketing decisions are the real reasons the game is being delay, that will piss a lot of fans off., they may throw a few lies there to controlled the multitudes. We want to improve some aspect and what not... yup yup yup...

I don't thing we will ever know the real reasons.

 

[Griffith500]

That is a tasteless example and not at all what i meant to suggest or imply, i didn't suggest reading only a RPG review by someone only interested or knowledgable about RPG's or similar.
I just meant for example when i read a review about a new album from my favourite band i will try to see if the same reviewer in general shares my taste in music somewhat before i judge his judgement.
If he does, and the same applies to taste ( not genres ) in general i find, i will take his judgement more serious than someone with a musical taste i despise.

I may be misunderstanding you, but I fail to see the difference between a music critic who likes "rock music" reviewing a new Album from a rock band, and a critic who likes "racing games" reviewing a new game from a racing game developer. Both imply bias on account of their own preference... surely?

What!!!!!! do you still believe in PD? Do they still have some credibility left?

If 3D, Move, or marketing decisions are the real reasons the game is being delay, that will piss a lot of fans off., they may throw a few lies there to controlled the multitudes. We want to improve some aspect and what not... yup yup yup...

I don't thing we will ever know the real reasons.

What's your point? Yes, I still believe in PD - they're a lot better at making games than I am
Plus it's Sony who would be to blame for all the examples you gave...

 

[Coiler]

I didn't vote, useless thread...

 

[analog]

I may be misunderstanding you, but I fail to see the difference between a music critic who likes "rock music" reviewing a new Album from a rock band, and a critic who likes "racing games" reviewing a new game from a racing game developer. Both imply bias on account of their own preference... surely?

Surely some bias within any review cannot ever be excluded, hence why i called any unbiased review hypothetical ( like journalism in general ).
And you make the misstake by suggesting i referred to genres, like rock music or racing games.
I meant taste, not all rock music is the same, it is categorised as rock but to suggest no differences exists musically or to what someone prefers personally is rather limiting.
A Radiohead fan has a different taste in music than, say a Bon Jovi fan although both could be considered rock music.
Same with GT versus, say, NFS Underground , both are racing games in genre but the preference one has over the other depends on taste.
So yes, i choose those reviewers i trust most to make the judgements i rely the most on, not discounting my own, and if they're biased it's a bias i in general can live with or understand and often share.

And besides, bias is not always a bad thing when concerning trivial matters.
As long as you keep an open mind in general.

 

[Seismica]

I didn't vote, useless thread...

What he said.

 

[Lucas]

I didn't vote, useless thread...

Why did you bother to post, then?

People these days...

 

[hardvibes]

Why did you bother to post, then?

People these days...

It's his opinion, just like Seismica's, mine etc...
People these days...

 

[Griffith500]

Surely some bias within any review cannot ever be excluded, hence why i called any unbiased review hypothetical ( like journalism in general ).
And you make the misstake by suggesting i referred to genres, like rock music or racing games.
I meant taste, not all rock music is the same, it is categorised as rock but to suggest no differences exists musically or to what someone prefers personally is rather limiting.
A Radiohead fan has a different taste in music than, say a Bon Jovi fan although both could be considered rock music.
Same with GT versus, say, NFS Underground , both are racing games in genre but the preference one has over the other depends on taste.
So yes, i choose those reviewers i trust most to make the judgements i rely the most on, not discounting my own, and if they're biased it's a bias i in general can live with or understand and often share.

And besides, bias is not always a bad thing when concerning trivial matters.
As long as you keep an open mind in general.

It doesn't matter how finely you subdivide it, a sub-genre is still part of a genre. It's also entirely intangible, like "taste" (whatever that actually means) - whether you like Radiohead, Muse or Iron Maiden - iRacing, Wipeout or Screamer 4x4. What you've said is by no means wrong, I just thought you were being a bit hypocritical (unavoidable though this is for humankind).

Anyway, I too find myself taking a review in a different light if I find something out about the reviewer, despite the fact that I try to keep an open mind.

It's his opinion, just like Seismica's, mine etc...
People these days...

And yet in writing in the thread, he is making use of it to voice his opinion, which is that the thread is useless - oxymoron?

 

[analog]

I did not divide into sub-genres ( although that is a possiblity ) and for defining taste without becoming overly semantic or philosofical, you know perfectly well what i mean, let's call it personal preference for arguments sake.
About it being intangible, sure it's anybody's guess why we prefer the things we do, but i just prefer to take advice concerning reviews from likeminded people.
If you mean hypocritical as not openminded to new things you're wrong.
I have an eclectic taste regarding many subjects although you're forced to limit yourself somewhat or else it becomes idiosyncratic instead of eclectic ( nothing wrong with that, just not for me ).
It's a choice, granted, but one i'm quite happy with as you have to make choices.
You can't read every book ever printed in one lifetime, to choose the books you'd like to read by randomly picking some in a library is not the way i choose to select them.