COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[RacingGrandpa]

One of the reasons younger people doesn't die in high numbers are that they are hospitalised and put into ICU while older people aren't. Another is of course that there are less of them in risk groups.
But there are a lot of young people that suffers from other affects than death that can potentially be life changing.
And the primary reason to do lockdowns is not to stop the virus, but to slow the infection rate to a point where the health system can cope with it.

 

[rono_thomas]

I would rather have our government focus on higher risk groups instead of destroying the lives of healthy young people with very low risk of heaving health problems or dying from covid.

And therein lies the problem, having unrestricted lives means an increase in transmission, increases in transmission means more restrictions, its a vicious circle that means not one at risk group (High or Low) can be singled out as everyone has the same potential to catch it and be contagious.

 

[mika haka]

What does this even mean?! We both had flu jabs at the beginning of the month. No-one's passing on anything.

Simple human beings have lived with viruses from day dot.

Considering how harmless this virus is I really dont understand peoples train of thought on trying to hide from it.

We all need to get back to normality and let the elderly decide if they want to isolate themselves or not.

Most old people I know hate the restrictions more than the young

 

[Famine]

Considering how harmless this virus is

Could you quantify that comment?

 

[UKMikey]

Sometimes I wish we had a laugh button to flag posts with no serious thought behind them.

Take chances with your own life if you want to. Stay away from me and my family with your unsubstantiated BS though.

 

[Joey D]

One of the reasons younger people doesn't die in high numbers are that they are hospitalised and put into ICU while older people aren't.

Maybe that's true in Sweden, but it's not true in the US. We aren't just letting older people die while giving preferential treatment to younger people. Almost all of the hospitalizations where I work are over the age of 55, however, we do have younger patients than that.

Considering how harmless this virus is I really dont understand peoples train of thought on trying to hide from it.

That's wrong on so many levels. COVID is "harmless" in that the mortality isn't exactly high for it all things considered. But the likelihood you get long-lasting, harmful, conditions because of it is much higher.

People need to stop getting hung up on the death rate.

 

[Danoff]

I'm assuming "they" is all the world governments and "this" is the welfare bailouts to businesses in each country.

I'm not sure that's the case. Maybe... but I wanted it clarified before I responded. Looks like that's not coming, which is fine.

 

[Blitz24]

I love how people keep saying how harmless this virus is and yet they have no idea what long term effects the virus has.

 

[Touring Mars]

I bet those who have been in ICU with COVID-19 but have recovered would not rank their experience alongside a typical bout of flu. Requiring treatment in an ICU is, in and of itself, a traumatic experience for individuals and their families, irrespective of any lingering ill effects.

Also, we don't even know if people who have had the virus without knowing it will remain free of illness indefinitely - there is very little data on how re-infection may affect people, though there is some evidence that re-infection can result in a more severe bout of illness. This is the case with some other viruses too (like Zika), and it has enormous (and bad) implications for the efficacy of possible vaccines.

I reckon the moral of the story is: don't try to dismiss SARS-CoV-2 as nothing to worry about unless you have very strong evidence to back up your claim.

 

[mika haka]

Could you quantify that comment?

Yeah 80 percent show only mild symptoms. Only 1 percent die from it and from that 90 percent are 80 plus.

As far as viruses go that is very very tame.

Ebola etc would be far more deadly.

Sure the spread of infection of this virus is very high but thats only becuase very few show any real symptoms.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54570373

 

[Famine]

Yeah 80 percent show only mild symptoms. Only 1 percent die from it and from that 90 percent are 80 plus.

As far as viruses go that is very very tame.

Ebola etc would be far more deadly.

Sure the spread of infection of this virus is very high but thats only becuase very few show any real symptoms.

Love that last sentence handwave there.

"Oh yeah, it's incredibly virulent and very hard to detect infectious individuals and all, but it's only caused a million deaths worldwide in under a year. Why panic?"

A million deaths in a year and you call it harmless

Incidentally, your death rates are off (the known CFR is 2.75%). So are your age groups - COVID-19 may be five times more effective at killing those aged 80+ as those aged 30-40, but there are far fewer individuals aged 80+ - only around 50% of COVID-19 deaths are 75+. In the UK, 85% of COVID-19 deaths are aged 65+.

And you're completely ignoring the larger number of hospitalised cases that result not in death but in apparently permanent (tough to say right now, but it doesn't look great) long-term health deficits - which, as you sort-of point out from the numbers involving older and elderly people dying, is something far more likely to affect the under-65s.

"Harmless"

 

[RacingGrandpa]

We aren't just letting older people die while giving preferential treatment to younger people.

Neither are we, the elderly patients have in large been treated with oxygen and morphine.

 

[Touring Mars]

Any further posts that contain misinformation or misleading claims will result in an infraction being given.

@mika haka is now banned from posting in this thread, so please don't bother replying to his posts.

 

[Famine]

Old people die its called nature. It is harmless.

Way to ignore everything except the old people dying.

Rank 24th on the uks biggest killers.

Yes, that is a Daily Mail headline. It applies to August. Year to date, COVID-19 has caused one in six deaths in the UK.

After not even being on the list of killers until March 2020.

From nowhere it's killed more people in 9 months than road accidents in 30 years (and road deaths don't cause 3-6 other people to catch road accidents).

Twice as many people - and far more under 65 - have organ damage and long-term health implications from COVID-19 infection.

"Harmless".

 

[Touring Mars]

Today was the first time I've witnessed a group of teens openly defying security and staff in my local store - it was totally disgusting.

A group of kids entered the shop in front of me, with one pulling his T-shirt up over his mouth in lieu of a mask, but the others didn't bother. The security guard confronted them, but they just split up and the staff couldn't do much about it. One of the copper nanotubes even mockingly coughed in the middle of the shop... though I doubt anything will (or even can) be done about it.

The security guard and one regular staff member are easily in their sixties (and both are somewhat overweight too...), hence they are both in high risk categories... and yet they are relying on the goodwill of people to act responsibly. They probably face this kind of vile behaviour all the time, and yet it was sickening to see. I wish I could have slapped them all into next week.

 

[Blitz24]

Today was the first time I've witnessed a group of teens openly defying security and staff in my local store - it was totally disgusting.

A group of kids entered the shop in front of me, with one pulling his T-shirt up over his mouth in lieu of a mask, but the others didn't bother. The security guard confronted them, but they just split up and the staff couldn't do much about it. One of the copper nanotubes even loudly coughed in the middle of the shop... though I doubt anything will (or even can) be done about it.

The security guard and one regular staff member are easily in their sixties (and both are somewhat overweight too...), hence they are both in high risk categories... and yet they are relying on the goodwill of people to act responsibly. They probably face this kind of vile behaviour all the time, and yet it was sickening to see. I wish I could have slapped them all into next week.

Probably could have and gotten away with it. IANAL, but their actions could be constituted as reckless endangerment and since they are on private property and are violating policies, could be summarily ejected with no regard to their well-being.

 

[rono_thomas]

Today was the first time I've witnessed a group of teens openly defying security and staff in my local store - it was totally disgusting.

A group of kids entered the shop in front of me, with one pulling his T-shirt up over his mouth in lieu of a mask, but the others didn't bother. The security guard confronted them, but they just split up and the staff couldn't do much about it. One of the copper nanotubes even mockingly coughed in the middle of the shop... though I doubt anything will (or even can) be done about it.

The security guard and one regular staff member are easily in their sixties (and both are somewhat overweight too...), hence they are both in high risk categories... and yet they are relying on the goodwill of people to act responsibly. They probably face this kind of vile behaviour all the time, and yet it was sickening to see. I wish I could have slapped them all into next week.

Must have been something in the air yesterday as I also witnessed the same, police were involved but short of talking to them and moving them on there was little else done about it - in some ways I have some sympathy for them because and I am applying some stereotyping here having not such great "home" lives and a pandemic thrown in can only exacerbate behaviour like this, whilst I would hope in some that it does the opposite.

 

[x3ra]

Probably could have and gotten away with it. IANAL, but their actions could be constituted as reckless endangerment and since they are on private property and are violating policies, could be summarily ejected with no regard to their well-being.

Reckless endangerment. Really? And who are they endangering and how?
https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

Roger W. Koops holds a Ph.D. in Chemistry from the University of California, Riverside as well as Master and Bachelor degrees from Western Washington University. He worked in the Pharmaceutical and Biotechnology Industry for over 25 years. Before retiring in 2017, he spent 12 years as a Consultant focused on Quality Assurance/Control and issues related to Regulatory Compliance. He has authored or co-authored several papers in the areas of pharmaceutical technology and chemistry.

 

[Touring Mars]

Reckless endangerment. Really? And who are they endangering and how?

Erm, other people in the shop by potentially spreading coronavirus?

To be perfectly honest, I'm struggling to understand how this is so hard to understand...

 

[BobK]

Reckless endangerment. Really? And who are they endangering and how?

Try reading @Touring Mars' entire post; clearly you missed this part:

The security guard and one regular staff member are easily in their sixties (and both are somewhat overweight too...), hence they are both in high risk categories.

 

[Blitz24]

Try reading @Touring Mars' entire post; clearly you missed this part:

Or he's ignoring it, posting a link, and will ignore anything anyone says to dismantle his sources.

 

[McLaren]

I can't believe people are still trying the "not everyone dies from it" approach. Goodness it's obvious the nay-sayers are so easily fooled into what I assume is just pure right-wing propaganda because we know by this point the virus attacks multiple parts of the body & amplifies the effects of any underlying issues - 40% of Americans have a chronic disease. We know the virus can leave scarring inside the body which opens up lasting health issues of its own, so it's not just death to be concerned over; any person, asympto. or not, has been recorded with the virus still affecting the body. It is amazing how people either ignore or deny this, b/c I fail to imagine it's not been talked about once on a main stage in media.

But hey, if you get diagnosed with it, please feel free continuing to stay home if it gets severe & leave the hospital rooms open for others. By this point, the whole, "people die everyday of different things" is barked so much, I want to see whose willing to literally bet their life on it.

 

[Touring Mars]

Reckless endangerment. Really? And who are they endangering and how?
https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

Roger W. Koops holds a Ph.D. in Chemistry from the University of California, Riverside as well as Master and Bachelor degrees from Western Washington University. He worked in the Pharmaceutical and Biotechnology Industry for over 25 years. Before retiring in 2017, he spent 12 years as a Consultant focused on Quality Assurance/Control and issues related to Regulatory Compliance. He has authored or co-authored several papers in the areas of pharmaceutical technology and chemistry.

I also have a Ph.D in Chemistry and worked at the University of California (Irvine), as well as 2.5 years experience working on virus structure at the Medical Research Council Centre for Virus Research in Glasgow... but that doesn't make me an expert on viruses - far from it. Appealing to credentials is pretty pointless in this debate... and it isn't going to wash here.

This guy says "We also do not know enough about the possible consequences of forcing whole populations to adopt face coverings for extended periods" without even the slightest hint of irony... given that we also do not know enough about SARS-CoV-2 and the possible (and increasingly observable) consequences of being infected with the virus, I reckon worrying about the potential long term effects of mask wearing, for the overwhelming majority at least, is pretty laughable in comparison.

 

[Joey D]

Neither are we, the elderly patients have in large been treated with oxygen and morphine.

Wait, I guess I don't understand then, why did you say that younger people are being put in the ICU while older people aren't? It makes it sound like in Sweden they're giving preferential treatment to younger people.

 

[Keef]

It makes it sound like in Sweden they're giving preferential treatment to younger people.

In a culturally homogenous country it might be easy for everybody to make moral judgements like this.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Wait, I guess I don't understand then, why did you say that younger people are being put in the ICU while older people aren't? It makes it sound like in Sweden they're giving preferential treatment to younger people.

Because the best treatment for those older people has been to have morphine and oxygen. Not being put in a ventilator.

 

[UKMikey]

https://theconversation.com/coronav...now-so-far-and-the-vital-missing-clues-147960

 

[rono_thomas]

Well looks like my gameplay time is gonna increase from Friday onwards, Wales is going to be entering a Fire Break period of two weeks where we are under stay at home orders.

I hope this has the effect they expect even if we have to wait much longer than the Fire Break period lasts for to see the results it may generate.

I also hope more that people of Wales listen and stay at home.

 

[DK]

Given all of the leaks from our government and NPHET about level 4/"4+"/5, I think we're heading the same way. We've had at least 1,000 new cases a day for 5 days straight (14-18 Oct), which is worse than any of the daily figures at the height of the 1st wave in late April. On the plus side, we've only hit double-digit death figures once in this 2nd wave (10 on 3 Oct), and with 34 cases in ICU, we're nowhere near being overrun yet.

 

[x3ra]

I also have a Ph.D in Chemistry and worked at the University of California (Irvine), as well as 2.5 years experience working on virus structure at the Medical Research Council Centre for Virus Research in Glasgow... but that doesn't make me an expert on viruses - far from it. Appealing to credentials is pretty pointless in this debate... and it isn't going to wash here.

This guy says "We also do not know enough about the possible consequences of forcing whole populations to adopt face coverings for extended periods" without even the slightest hint of irony... given that we also do not know enough about SARS-CoV-2 and the possible (and increasingly observable) consequences of being infected with the virus, I reckon worrying about the potential long term effects of mask wearing, for the overwhelming majority at least, is pretty laughable in comparison.

Okay, I will bow to your greater knowledge, since you are more qualified than I, by a huge margin. How do you see this all panning out then? Do you envisage that we are never going to get back to normal?