COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Blitz24]

There is no forcing anyone to get the vaccine. All of these restrictions are basically "strongly encouraging" people to get the vaccine. (Before you say it's apartheid, remember that in THOSE situations, there was nothing you could do to prevent the restrictions.)

 

[Nielsen]

There is no forcing anyone to get the vaccine. All of these restrictions are basically "strongly encouraging" people to get the vaccine. (Before you say it's apartheid, remember that in THOSE situations, there was nothing you could do to prevent the restrictions.)

There will be soon:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-59343987

German government appears to consider the idea as well. 👎

 

[Joey D]

Why are some countries preparing the enforcement of obligatory vaccines against Delta when the writing on the wall is it will be inefficient against the hardened Omigulli (or whatever the **** it’s called) variant?

No one knows whether the current crop of vaccines are effective against the Omicron strain or not. Researchers are attempting to figure that out this very moment. So no, the writing isn't on the wall by any means.

New Virus Variant Stokes Concern but Vaccines Still Likely to Work (Published 2021)

The Omicron variant carries worrisome mutations that may let it evade antibodies, scientists said. But it will take more research to know how it fares against vaccinated people.

www.nytimes.com

Even if that vaccines aren't as effective, chances are they'll still be somewhat effective due to how the mRNA technology works.

And people wonder why they get sick even after three injections of Pfizer or Moderna. Soap was invented for a reason.

While contact transmission is a thing, it's not the only way COVID is transmitted between people. From the CDC:

COVID-19 spreads when an infected person breathes out droplets and very small particles that contain the virus. These droplets and particles can be breathed in by other people or land on their eyes, noses, or mouth. In some circumstances, they may contaminate surfaces they touch. People who are closer than 6 feet from the infected person are most likely to get infected.

COVID-19 is spread in three main ways:

• Breathing in air when close to an infected person who is exhaling small droplets and particles that contain the virus.
• Having these small droplets and particles that contain virus land on the eyes, nose, or mouth, especially through splashes and sprays like a cough or sneeze.
• Touching eyes, nose, or mouth with hands that have the virus on them.

For more information about how COVID-19 spreads, visit the How COVID-19 Spreads page to learn how COVID-19 spreads and how to protect yourself.

It's spread through droplets, so while washing your hands will certainly help, it's not going to clean the air you're breathing in.

It might not, but eventually the current vaccines may be rendered obsolete.

Obsolete? No. Less Effective? Yes. This is one of the many reasons booster shots exist.

 

[Famine]

Why do you use local examples to disprove my point, which had “global” as emphasis?

The whole point was that they were global. All of these variants spread to multiple countries. Some merited status as "variant of concern" (like Omicron). Some still are (Gamma).

Alpha and Delta (and Delta+) are still prevailing as the dominant variants almost everywhere, and they're among the earliest identified variants. This fact alone disproves that "the pattern so has been that previously dominating variants began to fade away once stronger and more contaigious variants made their arrival globally"; we're on the 13th major identified variant family, and the first and fourth are still the "dominating variants".

 

[TexRex]

Is it weird that Gov. Taint Reeves (R-MS) supports bodily autonomy when it comes to vaccinations but not pregnancy terminations? lolno

It's spread through droplets, so while washing your hands will certainly help, it's not going to clean the air you're breathing in.

 

[Outspacer]

Copy-pasting some notes from John Campbell's video a couple of days ago, I think these are direct quotes...

So far, what we have seen is very mild cases.
...
I really think the vaccine plays a role here, breakthrough infections, but very very mild.

We’re seeing a marked change in the demographic profile of patients with Covid-19. Young people, in their 20s to just over their late 30s, are coming in with moderate to severe disease, some needing intensive care. About 65% are not vaccinated and most of the rest are only half-vaccinated.

Of course these are just anecdotal, but it's all we have for the moment. Campbell notes that vaccination rates are higher in Dr Coetzee's area than in Soweto.

Dr Coetzee does not only say that cases are "very mild". She emphasises that vaccines appear to still be doing their job.

 

[Famine]

Gov. Taint Reeves (R-MS)

Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik.

 

[Nielsen]

No one knows whether the current crop of vaccines are effective against the Omicron strain or not. Researchers are attempting to figure that out this very moment. So no, the writing isn't on the wall by any means.

Early findings indicate they won’t work very well. Yes, they’re early but the writing on the wall is there.

New Virus Variant Stokes Concern but Vaccines Still Likely to Work (Published 2021)

The Omicron variant carries worrisome mutations that may let it evade antibodies, scientists said. But it will take more research to know how it fares against vaccinated people.

www.nytimes.com

Even if that vaccines aren't as effective, chances are they'll still be somewhat effective due to how the mRNA technology works.

We’ll see.

While contact transmission is a thing, it's not the only way COVID is transmitted between people. From the CDC:

It's spread through droplets, so while washing your hands will certainly help, it's not going to clean the air you're breathing in.

Which is why face masks may be helpful in combatting droplets.

The whole point was that they were global. All of these variants spread to multiple countries. Some merited status as "variant of concern" (like Omicron). Some still are (Gamma).

Alpha and Delta (and Delta+) are still prevailing as the dominant variants almost everywhere, and they're among the earliest identified variants. This fact alone disproves that "the pattern so has been that previously dominating variants began to fade away once stronger and more contaigious variants made their arrival globally"; we're on the 13th major identified variant family, and the first and fourth are still the "dominating variants".

Ok, it was my impression that Delta had replaced earlier versions. Possibly because we only hear about Delta in the vaccine context.

The sponge forgot its face mask.

 

[TexRex]

The sponge forgot its face mask.

A quick Google search says the episode from which the image was captured is from 2012. Typically strawman arguments are employed because they're easily attacked and yet you've still managed to miss the mark.

 

[Joey D]

Early findings indicate they won’t work very well. Yes, they’re early but the writing on the wall is there.

Can you point me to these early findings? Everything that's been published at the moment says that researchers don't have a clear picture yet. We likely won't have a clear picture for a few weeks either since the variant only had a major spike in research interest on Friday.

I don't think you can say the writing is on the wall at this time. As we learn more in the coming weeks, it might end up that way, but as of right now it's still a major question mark.

 

[Nielsen]

Can you point me to these early findings? Everything that's been published at the moment says that researchers don't have a clear picture yet. We likely won't have a clear picture for a few weeks either since the variant only had a major spike in research interest on Friday.

I don't think you can say the writing is on the wall at this time. As we learn more in the coming weeks, it might end up that way, but as of right now it's still a major question mark.

I cannot, for obvious reasons, point to any reasearch. However, it’s not looking too promising, hence that writing on the wall.

Global markets fall after Moderna Omicron warning

Stock markets slide after Moderna boss casts doubt on vaccine effectiveness against new variant.

www.bbc.com

 

[Scaff]

Stopping? There’s a huge difference between stopping and forcing vaccines into people who didn’t accept them by choice.

Who's being forced (not that was the point being discussed - but you do strawman).

To such a provocative remark? Yes.

Oh the nonsense in your comment more than earned it.

 

[Nielsen]

Who's being forced?

I’ve already answered this question above. Austrian population.

Oh the nonsense in your comment more than earned it.

Point out the nonsense. Sarcasm won’t cut it.

 

[TexRex]

I’ve already answered this question above. Austrian population.

Can you elaborate on the means of enforcement? Seems to me that was implied.

 

[Scaff]

I’ve already answered this question above. Austrian population.

Nope.

Plans are in place to use mandates (with medical exemptions) from Feb if required. Right now that's not the case and the Austrian government hasn't even got he legal framework in place for it yet.

"The government said it was preparing the legal groundwork for a general vaccine mandate to come into effect from 1 February, with exemptions for those unable to receive a jab on medical grounds."

Austria plans compulsory Covid vaccination for all

Country goes into fourth lockdown amid soaring cases and announces jab mandate from February 2022

www.theguardian.com

"How a broad vaccine mandate could be enforced remains unclear – though non-compliance could mean a fine of as much as £3,000, cabinet minister Karoline Edtstadler has said – and it may be liable to challenge on constitutional grounds either at the domestic or European level."

Austria is showing that vaccine mandates are no longer unthinkable | Liam Hoare

The rest of Europe will be watching closely as the country gets tough on unvaccinated people, says Vienna-based writer Liam Hoare

www.theguardian.com

Point out the nonsense. Sarcasm won’t cut it.

Democratic governments in the west haven't resorted to authoritarian measures, that's inaccurate hyperbole, and the mandates they are looking at still fall into the category of Public Health.

Can you elaborate on the means of enforcement? Seems to me that was implied.

Fines, and the legal framework isn't even in place and it's not even clear yet if it ever will be.

 

[Nielsen]

Nope.

Plans are in place to use mandates (with medical exemptions) from Feb if required. Right now that's not the case and the Austrian government hasn't even got he legal framework in place for it yet.

"The government said it was preparing the legal groundwork for a general vaccine mandate to come into effect from 1 February, with exemptions for those unable to receive a jab on medical grounds."

Austria plans compulsory Covid vaccination for all

Country goes into fourth lockdown amid soaring cases and announces jab mandate from February 2022

www.theguardian.com

"How a broad vaccine mandate could be enforced remains unclear – though non-compliance could mean a fine of as much as £3,000, cabinet minister Karoline Edtstadler has said – and it may be liable to challenge on constitutional grounds either at the domestic or European level."

Austria is showing that vaccine mandates are no longer unthinkable | Liam Hoare

The rest of Europe will be watching closely as the country gets tough on unvaccinated people, says Vienna-based writer Liam Hoare

www.theguardian.com

Democratic governments in the west haven't resorted to authoritarian measures, that's inaccurate hyperbole, and the mandates they are looking at still fall into the category of Public Health.

They’ll likely find a way to circumvent the legal framework. The Danish government even broke the law in an attempt to battle the disease.

Denmark mink cull: Government admits culling had no legal basis

PM Mette Frederiksen apologises for going ahead with the mass cull of mink without new legislation.

www.bbc.com

 

[Scaff]

They’ll likely find a way to circumvent the legal framework. The Danish government even broke the law in an attempt to battle the disease.

Denmark mink cull: Government admits culling had no legal basis

PM Mette Frederiksen apologises for going ahead with the mass cull of mink without new legislation.

www.bbc.com

They may well do, with may being the operative word, but the last time I checked the Danish government don't run Austria, and as such have zero bearing on any Austrian legal situation.

However that doesn't change the fact that no one has been forced to be vaccinated in the west and no-one is being forced to be vaccinated.

 

[TexRex]

However that doesn't change the fact that no one has been forced to be vaccinated in the west and no-one is being forced to be vaccinated.

But they might be!

 

[CodeRedR51]

Apparently my brother has tested positive. He is not vaccinated. He's currently isolating himself in his room away from his wife and kids and taking ibuprofen and Nyquil according to my mom. Told her that's not going to help him and she insists that he told her it is, so who knows. Either way, hopefully its just a mild case. I was with him last Saturday but he thinks he got it from being in an Apple store. Last Apple store I walked by was requiring masks for entry though.

Update: apparently a mild case as he's back up and active. Was taking ibuprofen and Nyquil for it. 🙄 Still not vaccinated...

 

[Outspacer]

But they might be!

Well, they might...

EU must consider mandatory Covid jabs, says Von der Leyen

European Commission president says EU states need to discuss idea in response to spread of Omicron variant

www.theguardian.com

 

[TexRex]

Well, they might...

EU must consider mandatory Covid jabs, says Von der Leyen

European Commission president says EU states need to discuss idea in response to spread of Omicron variant

www.theguardian.com

Or rather they must...per Von der Leyen.

 

[Outspacer]

Or rather they must...per Von der Leyen.

Must consider... so, eh, probably not, at least on an EU-wide scale. But it does give an affirmative nod to any EU country that would like to follow Greece's lead.

 

[Blitz24]

Omicron variant officially detected in United States:

 

[Danoff]

Omicron variant officially detected in United States:

 

[TexRex]

Must consider... so, eh, probably not, at least on an EU-wide scale. But it does give an affirmative nod to any EU country that would like to follow Greece's lead.

Well, yeah.

I mean...I'm generally opposed to these sorts of mandates whether they apply to me or not, but I understand the motives and therefore tolerate them. Mind you I'm vaccinated not because it was required by any entity, private or governmental, but because it means conferring protection against a potentially lethal or merely debilitating illness and mitigating the spread of said illness.

Dammit! I was only going to type it out, but still.

 

[Outspacer]

Well, yeah.

I mean...I'm generally opposed to these sorts of mandates whether they apply to me or not, but I understand the motives and therefore tolerate them. Mind you I'm vaccinated not because it was required by any entity, private or governmental, but because it means conferring protection against a potentially lethal or merely debilitating illness and mitigating the spread of said illness.

Likewise. I have no problem with mandates for professions where it's relevant, or for access to crowded venues, travel, etc... nor do most people AFAICT. I'm much less comfortable with what Greece has done though, in part because the good it might do locally is balanced by the wider detrimental effect of giving anti-vaxxers something new to protest against. Possibly their most valid arguing point yet (which isn't saying a lot, but you get my drift). Nothing good comes from having more people find any talking point to agree with the anti-vaxxers on.

 

[TexRex]

I have no problem with mandates for professions where it's relevant, or for access to crowded venues, travel, etc... nor do most people AFAICT.

While to your point that they account for a minority of a minority (even if they ostensibly represent a larger minority of people), it's somewhat humorous (not "ha ha") that in the United States, prohibitions on private mandates for vaccination came down before any governmental mandates for vaccination. That's what I don't understand. Actually I do understand it and I hate that I understand it.

 

[Nielsen]

They may well do, with may being the operative word, but the last time I checked the Danish government don't run Austria, and as such have zero bearing on any Austrian legal situation.

However that doesn't change the fact that no one has been forced to be vaccinated in the west and no-one is being forced to be vaccinated.

From the beginning my point has been that some countries are preparing obligatory vaccines. Austria intends to go through with it from February next year, and Germany is strongly considering something similar. They have already shown what they are about, and that alone justifies condemnation.

 

[TB]

I hate it when my country tries to protect me from getting sick and dying because I won't do it for myself and others.

Frickin' Nazis.

 

[Outspacer]

While to your point that they account for a minority of a minority (even if they ostensibly represent a larger minority of people), it's somewhat humorous (not "ha ha") that in the United States, prohibitions on private mandates for vaccination came down before any governmental mandates for vaccination. That's what I don't understand. Actually I do understand it and I hate that I understand it.

I can only superficially understand it - the more I think about it, the more my head hurts.