CSL elite vs T-GT

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by serlemke, Sep 16, 2019.

?

Which one you have?

  1. T-GT

    12 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. Fanatec CSL Elite

    29 vote(s)
    32.2%
  3. T300

    14 vote(s)
    15.6%
  4. Controler

    8 vote(s)
    8.9%
  5. Other

    11 vote(s)
    12.2%
  6. G29

    16 vote(s)
    17.8%
  1. serlemke

    serlemke Premium

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    That's a war that probably more fought here!

    Soon I will be traveling to my home country and I'm taking a T-GT to use there, currently I have a Fanatec CSL elite (which I bought in January after using a T300RS).

    Before taking the T-GT with me its a good idea to test it, and that is what I did - and of course I compared it the the Fanatec CSL elite.
    So, last week race B was the sample: Red Bull Ring - Forg GT test car II - Was feeling comfortable in that combo, so testing it there with same combination seemed good idea.

    With the Fanatec, laps around ~1.29.variable.
    Same lap-time with the T-GT, tough it seems a little easier with the T-GT, seems I can be more precise, maybe in the long term performance could improve on this one, not sure tough.

    I think the 'extra precision' on the T-GT comes from it's almost non existent force feedback(it's very light), it feels almost like there is only 'resistance' in the wheel, like you have a rubber band inside, very low communication with the track and that 'rumble' effect in the back is not much far away from a joke. Increasing FF just puts a stronger rubber-band.

    In the CSL Elite you feel(for real) the track, the bumps the curbs and on straight line no resistance at all, it also gives you damper and spring effects(and some others).

    The T-GT has tons of buttons, total victory against the Fanatec on this point, but in the cost of visuals, as the Fanatec looks much more professional.

    T-GT has also shorter gas and brake pedals, in theory this can give some microseconds of performance, but this in general this is a variable, for example tire wear races may find it better the 'microsecond or less' slower gas press for the Fanatec, so... no real conclusion, each one dominates its world.

    In general, as the Fanatec and the T-GT have similar prices... my preference is the Fanatec (which I have reinstalled already :))

    [​IMG]
     
    sundaydriving, Letadlo and Kudos00 like this.
  2. talhaONE

    talhaONE

    Messages:
    328
    Ds4 better then both.
     
    SuperFTS likes this.
  3. Haitauer

    Haitauer

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Finland
    Have had the T-GT for quite a while, and as much as i like the extra dedicated buttons for tcs, brake balance and mixture, i do feel the ffb in t-gt is a bit too much more of a "rattle" than id like. I think t-gt can perform on ffb as its quite different in other games - i dont know why GT Sport prefers this on/off/clipping approach. Especially if csl elite has smoother effects..:indiff:

    Note: I use the wheel on "other" as i dont care for the fake high frequenzy rumble of that special motor..
     
  4. TheNorfolkDad

    TheNorfolkDad Premium

    Messages:
    1,087
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What is the price difference? I am looking to upgrade potentially to a T-GT for around £600, is the CSL elite sold as a package and for how much?
     
  5. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,886
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    TheNorfolkDad likes this.
  6. Lazybike

    Lazybike

    Messages:
    475
    G29 for me, it's the only wheel I've used and I'll probably stick with it untill PS5/GT7 comes out.
     
  7. CJ1045

    CJ1045

    Messages:
    492
    I went from t-gt to csl elite f1 ps4 and prefer the latter. I feel it is better in a wide variety of games but t-gt is better in GTS. I found the t-gt to have way more powerful feedback in t-gt and that i had to turn it down quite a lot in game. I am VERY suprised the op found it light as with feedback turned up in game you would struggle to hold it.

    I also like that I can put the McLaren wheel on the Fanatec for instant xbox compatibility as I use both consoles equally. I did have a Drivehub with the t-gt to achieve compatibilty but all the leads and faffing with extra controllers got on my nerves. The Fanatec solution is way better.

    CJ
     
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  8. serlemke

    serlemke Premium

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    True, maybe I have not explained the best way :)

    It is indeed very strong, probably more then the Fanatec, but kind of a 'static strong', like a constant pull with a rubber, the Fanatec one seems more sensible to track changes. Like on the T-GT you don't sense much the curbs, while on the Fanatec you can almost feel the sand on the track(exaggerating of course, but in this direction).

    --
    Added G29 which is another great but I forgot to add.
     
    Kudos00 likes this.
  9. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    554
    The smoother effects with Fanatec are a wheel feature not a game feature. The FEI setting on the wheel adjusts how much smoothing it applies.
     
    serlemke likes this.
  10. Haitauer

    Haitauer

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Finland
    We really REALLY need ffb settings on GTS..
     
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  11. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,886
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    T-GT is a dual belt drive which leads to a higher friction and damping which is not good for fine details in the FFB. CSL Elite is a single belt drive with less friction and damping and you can reduce or completely turn off the damper with DRI settings which leads to more fine details in the FFB.
     
    serlemke and Pigems like this.
  12. MikeV27

    MikeV27

    Messages:
    1,477
    Location:
    Canada
    G29. I’ve owned it for around 2 years and it’s still mint, no problems what so ever. But I’m looking to upgrade to a TGT when black friday comes.
     
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  13. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

    Messages:
    2,352
    About 18 months for mine and the same perfect condition. Crazily good build quality for the price.

    Voted for Fanatec (because of their load cell) as I've never heard a bad word about them but I never knew that Richmotech did a load cell for the G29 until today.

    Now I'm keeping the G29 and buying the mod instead. £130 instead of £700!:D
     
    watto79 likes this.
  14. Haitauer

    Haitauer

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Finland
    I forgot - as nice as the TGT wheel otherwise is, i cant quite understand the 28cm size of the wheel. They should have gone with a bit bigger. Looking to buy Sparco r383 at some point.
     
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  15. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,774
    I read somewhere that PD dictated the rim size to Thrustmaster (sorry, I can't find it atm), so you can blame them for that. For me, coming from a 30cm T500 rim, I agree that it should be bigger.
     
  16. Haitauer

    Haitauer

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Finland
    I have heared that also.. i can see the point in track racing not going for 33cm, but why not even 30cm. :confused: then again being 6'7" its hard for me to see this from the japanese point of view..:odd::D
     
    FPV MIC likes this.
  17. serlemke

    serlemke Premium

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Hmm, I tough I read somewhere that GT doesn't support the load-cell features. Time to do some research again.
     
  18. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

    Messages:
    2,352
    Fanatec's definitely does as F4H_Super_GT uses one. It should be the same for Ricmotech's too.
     
  19. watto79

    watto79

    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I wasn't aware of this mod (or it passed me by) but it looks really interesting. A search of this forum confirms people are using it with GT Sport so it should be fine.
    The reviews of it look fantastic so I'm now seriously considering the upgrade. It is expensive (more than half the cost of wheel and pedals on their own), but considerably cheaper than a setup that comes with a loadcell as standard.
    Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
     
    kilesa4568 likes this.
  20. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

    Messages:
    2,352
    I spat my tea out when I saw what comes in the mod and how much they're charging for it but it reviews really well.

    It makes a lot more sense me getting the mod instead of paying out for a whole new load cell equipped set up.
     
    watto79 likes this.
  21. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    554
    FWIW I have the Fanatec load cell pedal but don't use it, I prefer the non-load cell brake pedal. I understand all the arguments in favour of load cell, but I just don't like having to slam myself against the back of the seat to brake, and when I reduced the force needed for max braking, I couldn't brake to x% as accurately as I can with the non-load cell pedal. I also don't like the free play in the initial movement with the load cell, I prefer how the non-load cell pedal has an initial resistance to movement that means you can gently rest your foot on it without it moving at all. I also find I can hit 100% braking force in a shorter amount of time with the non-load cell pedal.
     
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  22. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,774
    I've been running a Richmotech load cell for about eight months now and it's great but, and this is a big but, GT Sport is the worst game to use it on because of the way the brake pedal is always re-calibrating. By the end of a decent session the force on the pedal to get to full pressure is just crazy (a very solid rig is essential). I found myself shutting down everything and restarting just to get back the brake feel I wanted. It's also part of the reason I don't play GT Sport much any more.

    If GT Sport had the in-game calibration that some of the other sims do this would be a non-issue, but as it stands, I wouldn't recommend load cells for use with this game in particular (especially for you personally, you might run out of puff quicker :)).

    Just my 2c. :cheers:
     
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  23. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

    Messages:
    2,352
    That's worth more than 2c's mate. I didn't know about the pedal re-calibrating.:eek:

    So I've got a rough idea, how long is a decent session for you and could you give me a guesstimate (no idea how...) on the extra force you have to use before needing to reboot? A decent session for me is 2-2.5 hours so it might be within my margins to still get one. I've got 3 weeks to make my mind up about it as the missus is making me wait till her next payday anyway.

    Changed the time I play to the afternoon so I've got more energy and I've finally ironed out my long ingrained, calorie burning over driving.

    I'm driving purely for fun and exercise now so if this brake mod adds to the immersion, like I'm hoping it will, I'll be happy. Cheaper than spending £700 and finding out I can't use one (for long) but I'll keep checking out the reviews. Thanks for the heads up mate.:cheers:
     
    FPV MIC likes this.
  24. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,774
    About every hour. I can still drive bare foot...just, but I've got a pretty tough foot. I'd guess that most couldn't. It's a 20kg load cell, which is on the low side, but the pressure I use feels like it could be a lot higher than that. Put it this way, I don't press as hard doing a rapid 160 to 0 kph stop in my road car (also bare footed, I really hate shoes :yuck:).

    What happens is you calibrate your pedals to start with but whenever you press the brake harder, during a panic stop for example, that becomes your new 100%, and if you panic even more a bit later and press a bit harder, then that's your new 100%. If you can regulate your foot pressure to exactly the same every panic stop, or can press to the full extent of the load cells capacity it will work great... but otherwise you end up like me :scared::crazy::indiff::boggled::ouch:.... :lol:.

    I hope this more detailed answer helps :).

    Great to hear that everything's on the up and up mate :tup:, and with you're ''finally ironed out your long ingrained, calorie burning over driving'' style(:lol:) you may be better at keeping to the same modulation that's required, but my panic stops really are panic stops :O:dopey:.

    One last thought, if you still use the hard rubber stopper in your G29 pedals press it as hard as you possibly can (several times) and see how you go afterwards. I've never used those pedals but I think it could produce a similar scenario.
     
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  25. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

    Messages:
    2,352
    The perfect explanation to say a load cell will have me rebooting every 30 minutes if I drove how I used to.:lol:

    If there's a chance I can modulate it, it's got to be worth a punt. I'll just introduce lazy braking to complement my lazy driving style.:D

    I'll try that.:tup:
     
    FPV MIC likes this.
  26. Chevy Heavy

    Chevy Heavy

    Messages:
    232
    Location:
    United States
    I recently switched from a G29 to a Fanatec CSL Elite w/loadcell brake. The difference is night and day. Don't get me wrong I was happy with the Logitech until I started experiencing throttle problems. After several attempts at fixing the problem I gave up and decided to upgrade. Wow! The force feedback is sublime. As far as the LC, it took awhile to get used to. It didn't help that I wasn't aware that changing the setting for it was on the steering wheel. The LC mod only needs 40% pedal travel for full braking and somehow mine was set at 70% which isn't possible with the bushings. Now that I've had some time to get used to it, I love it. The pedal is pressure sensitive (like IRL) as opposed to just having a spring for resistance on the G29. And I find it easier to trail brake also. @breeminator I believe you can adjust the dead zone to your liking in the software when connected to a PC.
     
  27. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    554
    Yes, I could set a dead zone, but I just prefer the 100% guaranteed operation of the non-load cell. If my foot is on it, and it isn't moving the pedal, I know with 100% certainty that I'm not applying my brake. With a load cell it's ALWAYS detecting a force, so you have to judge where to set the threshold so you aren't unintentionally applying the brake, and I just find that more vague. People seem happy enough with their ability to control the throttle with a travel-based pedal, so I'm not sure why people feel the same type of pedal can't provide good brake control.
     
    Chevy Heavy likes this.
  28. serlemke

    serlemke Premium

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Are you sure it is the 'DRI' (Drift) option? I mean, I turn it down to -5 and indeed it make the car feel more in the ground (maybe -5 is to much) but I'm also looking for a way to make the wheel stay still on a straight line, depending on the configuration it starts to wobble even on a straight line.
     
  29. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,886
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Read this.:)
     
  30. superwally

    superwally

    Messages:
    1,242
    Location:
    United States
    T-GT here. While it's not perfect, I am apparently happier with it than others, the wheel at least. At the initial price point the pedals are not adequate, no argument there.

    What others describe as a 'joke' buzz or rumble effect for me is a nuanced feel enhancer and adds immersion. I like the way you can feel the engine rpm increase and drop with each shift. I also run low FFB settings (1-2, my shoulders are destroyed), maybe it just works better at these levels. I think PD has really screwed up the FFB range of adjustment in GTS, going from strength 1 to 3 is a huge change, but as you go higher it's not linear and I don't feel much change at the top of the range.

    I need far more settings lower in the range and think the T-GT performance really suffers at the higher FF settings that a lot of people apparently favor.
    I also think every single car in the game has a sweet spot of FFB strength AND sensitivity that makes this wheel come alive, revealing depth and detail lost at other settings. If you have left your sensitivity alone while changing FFB strength, or never change it from car to car, I suggest giving it a go.

    The pedals that came with my T-GT were brutally bad-so bad I hope it was just an early build or preproduction unit. The gear interface between the pedals and potentiometers was so loose they barely touched, and the delay between moving the pedal and the response in game made them impossible to use. I ended up shimming the pots tight to the pedals...still not happy, when I lift from full throttle or brake there is still a slight delay.

    I picked up a T500RS pedal set on ebay with a Ricmotech Load Cell installed. As others mentioned, it won't hold calibration. I thought I just got screwed on ebay, but apparently this is a thing. I can't go 2 laps before the force required is so great it's just not worth the effort, my chair isn't bolted down and I just start sliding away, or I have to pull so hard on the wheel for support it's hard to turn smoothly. Maybe I just need more practice.
     
    FPV MIC likes this.