CSR-E wheel overrated? Or just not that great on GT5?

thechosenwonton

thechosenwonton

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actionjeans
So I've had my CSR-E wheel and pedal set for more than a month now, and I just don't get where the super glowing reviews are coming from. It's a minor step up from the DFGT, but it isn't in a different league by any stretch of the imagination, and while it might be worth the coin I dropped on it from an engineering/materials standpoint, it isn't from a performance/feedback one (which is solely the reason I purchased a new wheel). Do love the pedals though.

So I thought I might be doing it wrong, and playing the wrong game.

Is it just not that great on GT5? This being a GT5 forum and all, I naturally assumed all of these amazing reviews I had read about "another league", "different planet", "best ffb wheel on the market right now" would be related, at least in some way, to GT5.

If they have been, I'm not getting it. The feedback is marginally better, and the wheel is faster, but not "another league". The cheapness of the rim bothers me, and I just haven't been blown away, as I have been lead to believe I would be, or should be.

So, is this an issue with GT5 specifically? This being a "Forza related" wheel, does the CSR-E perform much, much better on Forza? And on iRacing, is there an additional correlation of performance increase in the tactile feedback that I was hoping to get?

Or were the reviews just hype? Don't get me wrong, the wheel is better than the DFGT, but it is not $600 better (including pedals, of course), at least not on GT5.

Thanks for any feedback - or any tips to get the wheel where I'd like it in GT5 would be welcome as well.
 
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Maybe you should post the settings you are using on the wheel from the on-wheel menu, the wheel and FFB settings you have set in GT5, and what wheel firmware you have. That might help the ones with the wheel that use it for GT5 help you out.
 
Firmware 7.22

SEN 900
FF 100
Sho 100
dri OFF
Abs 50
Lin 0
dEA 0
SPr -3
dPr 3
ACL off

In game is FF - 100
Simulation
Power steering - Off

If there is some magic I am missing, I'm all ears, but understeer feedback and slip angle on the front is virtually non-existent. This is for all cars, irrespective of tuning.
 
For me, specific to GT5 (which is the only sim I currently play) it is most certainly not in "a different league", especially when the reviews I have read have mentioned in the same breath it being a different league from G27's, and the T500RS.

Read the original post again, in entirety, and see if it makes sense. I am specifically asking if there is a discrepancy in GT5 specifically, or should I expect similar FFB performance across all games? I felt I made myself pretty clear. From the DFGT in GT5, it is a MINOR step up in performance (other than the pedals, which are quite good); so I'd like to find if this is specific to GT5, if there is something I can do about it, or if thats that, deal with it?
 
Mayaman,

Maybe you can post your settings and firmware you use and see if that makes a difference for him.

The guy doesn't seem to be trolling the CSR-E and could use some genuine help instead of snarkyness from people.
 
bobbyknc
The guy doesn't seem to be trolling the CSR-E and could use some genuine help instead of snarkyness from people.
Click to expand...

Actually thechosenwonton has made quite a few non-troll posts in the past if one takes the time to check his posts under stats. That's the first place I go if a post appears to have a troll-like or viral marketing slant.
Seems to me that he has a genuine opinion that was met with undue "snarkyness".

But I see a lot of that here lately and have experienced recently too, seems as if some people shoot first and then ask questions later.

Yes GTP can be confusing as far as hardware posts and GT5 is concerned.
The reason is because the GTP hardware section is also frequented by hardcore PC sim racers and some manufacturers who offer primarily PC-centric hardware have even set up shop via stickies on a forum originally centered around a console game.

That's why a member like amar212 will take the time to remind folks in the Fanatec Announcements thread where a lot of future pedal product discussions have recently occurred that many of the items discussed will not work on a console.

For the hardcore sim-crowd some of this information may be very easy to disseminate, but could be difficult for the causal sim racer frequenting a forum based on a console game to figure out.

So he has a very valid concern it seems trying to identify if the issue is feels he is experiencing is GT5-centric or not.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and in his opinion the CSR E did not seem to be as big a step as he had assumed based on reviews and user experience he had read about, but that was met with incredulous skepticism.

EDIT - Just a thought, but have you tried to compare the FFB on the DFGT and the CSRE with another game like Dirt 2/3 on the PS3?
 
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One thing that stands out to me is the on wheel FF is at 100 and the in game is set to max as well and he seems to find the FFB underwhelming. It makes me wonder if something is wrong with the wheel as I cant imagine driving GT5 with it set that high on an Elite.

On another note....if you have DPR set to 3 it should be set to -3 or off. I find adding DPR dumbs down the intricacies of FFB on GT5
 
bobbyknc
Mayaman,

Maybe you can post your settings and firmware you use and see if that makes a difference for him.

The guy doesn't seem to be trolling the CSR-E and could use some genuine help instead of snarkyness from people.
Click to expand...


LOL dude I don't think he's trolling at all. I'm just messin with him. To be honest, I think he should email Fanatec and see what they say. They may have a setting for GT5. Or is this unlikely?

edit:I''m pretty sure that on the Fanatec wheel site there are users with GT5 settings from soup to nuts. Also, check youtube as there are several users I believe that have posted videos on GT5 and the elite.
 
thehawk05
One thing that stands out to me is the on wheel FF is at 100 and the in game is set to max as well and he seems to find the FFB underwhelming. It makes me wonder if something is wrong with the wheel as I cant imagine driving GT5 with it set that high on an Elite.

On another note....if you have DPR set to 3 it should be set to -3 or off. I find adding DPR dumbs down the intricacies of FFB on GT5
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I've tried that as well; while it does make the wheel more delicate, my main issue is feeling the frontend - the wheel is fine, thats not the issue; I get decent FFB and my times are a slight bit quicker than with the DFGT - it is an upgrade, but it isn't a quantum leap at all, and I was hoping it would be.

I don't mean the force of the FFB, I mean the feedback; maybe I'm looking at it all wrong - if I crank spr up to 3, it will jerk out of my hands; but its the tactile feel that I was hoping to gain from this purchase which, lets be honest, is a lot of money to drop for a video game controller (albeit a sophisticated one).

If that isn't to be had, then cool, I'll move on. Maybe I'm expecting to much; my prior wheel was a DFGT as I've mentioned, and before that a really crappy Thrusmaster Momo wheel; now THAT transition was a quantum leap as far as I was concerned. I was hoping this transition would be as big of a leap, and so far it hasn't been.

This again, could be completely due to the limitations of GT5, and not anything to do with the wheel; but you are saying you don't run at FFB10 in GT5, so perhaps that is the answer; try turning down the FFB a bit, and turn spr up a bit, let the wheel do more of the work - I'll try that, and it makes sense.

I'm also looking for other suggestions on settings to try - there are a ton, and I have made a ton of progress from where I was but that lack of front end feeling (it was better on the DFGT) is still an area where I'm lacking. I can feel with the rear steps out even a minute amount, which is an improvement over the DFGT.

Honestly, this isn't a troll post; I can't see how it would be construed as one. I paid a lot of money for this wheel, and from the reviews I've read on this site and others, I expected more; possibly too much. If its GT5, I can live with that; if its the wheel, well, its nice, just not as nice as I was hoping. Again the pedals are sex though.
 
Mayaman
LOL dude I don't think he's trolling at all. I'm just messin with him. To be honest, I think he should email Fanatec and see what they say. They may have a setting for GT5. Or is this unlikely?

edit:I''m pretty sure that on the Fanatec wheel site there are users with GT5 settings from soup to nuts. Also, check youtube as there are several users I believe that have posted videos on GT5 and the elite.
Click to expand...

I've checked; tbh the majority of the settings aren't related to GT5. And those that are, pretty much mirror what I already have (or have tried and didn't work)
 
thechosenwonton
Honestly, this isn't a troll post; I can't see how it would be construed as one.
Click to expand...

It kills me that you even have to go there. Check the bottom of my post, I added a suggestion next to EDIT, in case you have not tried that, might be worthwhile to see if there are differing levels of feedback you are referring to from game-to-game.

There were quite a few posts on GTP after the latest update with people complaining that wheel feedback and FFB had been borked on some wheels.

I don't have a CSRE, but I noticed big-time change in FFB, tactile feedback on my GT3 RS V.2 after the last update. If I am not mistaken someone else using CSRE with GT5 posted in another forum about similar issue, it might have been ISR.
 
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Here are some FFB/tactile feedback-related threads for you to explore that are fairly recent regarding GT5 and last update:

Why the hell did they take the force feedback off the rumble strip

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=249658&highlight=force+feedback

Bad ffb after patch 2.04

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=243296&highlight=force+feedback

Gt5 2.0.4

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=243145&highlight=force+feedback

Seems as if some wheels are affected more than others.

There has also been discussion regarding FFB and feedback comparison between the T500 and CSRE in GT5 because at the moment they are the priciest/premium PS3 console compatible products, but I will tread lightly, that topic seems to bring out the best in some people (pardon the sarcasm).
 
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thechosenwonton
Firmware 7.22

SEN 900
FF 100
Sho 100
dri OFF
Abs 50
Lin 0
dEA 0
SPr -3
dPr 3
ACL off

In game is FF - 100
Simulation
Power steering - Off

If there is some magic I am missing, I'm all ears, but understeer feedback and slip angle on the front is virtually non-existent. This is for all cars, irrespective of tuning.
Click to expand...

I can't comment on the firmware since I am using 721 ATM, but here are CSRE settings that I successfully use on all PS3 games - especially on GT5 - and I will also explain some details for each one:

SEN OFF | FF 80 | SHO 70 | DRI 001 | ABS 50 | LIN 0 | DEA 0 | SPR 0 | DPR 0 |

Sensitivity setting for all PS3 games should be always set to OFF. With "OFF" setting, wheel takes the original "SEN" setting from the game (in the case of GT it is 900 degrees) and does not force artificial steering degree. Result is 1:1 linearity ratio. There *could* be a slight offset of the actual wheel once you set the Sensitivity to OFF (maybe 0,5 degree) but that offset is irrelevant and can also by corrected with *centering* feature available in "---" mode. SEN OFF is the only way to go.

FF80 is more than enough in order to get all the feel you need from your car. Going to 100 as you do will not do any good. You will get too "saturated" FFB effect and loose all details and nuances in both wheel and in-game feel of the physics. I use FFB in-game setting of 8 (Simulation mode, Power Steering Off in in-game options, G25 profiler) and 80% provides me with the best compromise of strength and feel of the tyres.

I run SHOCK on 70 because higher settings tends to shake the wheel too much over the kerbs for my feel and I do not like when I can't *feel* the direction of the kerbs.

DRIFT setting is important one for PS3 IMO because it actually removes a bit of motor-dampening and makes wheel faster at countersteering through hands (when wheel *corrects* itself with added acceleration, as in real life). I use only 1 (2 and 3 have tendency to lighten FFB effect too much) and DRI1 setting gives me best feel.

ABS50 is also more than enough. Notice I run GT5 exclusively without ABS so I need *early detection* of brake lockup. 50 is the best setting, because I often use mid-valued brake-bias where 50 provides very consistent all-around point of lockup. Notice I also run setting of 10 (max setting) on the LoadCell on the pedals.

As you can see, I run all "emulation" settings to zero (linearity, deadzone, spring, damper). I tried altering them, but they were just messing the feel and I didn't like that. Turning them of is far the best solution.

On your OP note, I think your criticism comes from the fact that you expected stronger FFB in realms of more "power". However, CSRE - or any other wheel outthere - can't *bypass* the strength-signal that some game is sending to main-inductor. That is the reason why majority of console games tends to have somewhat "weaker" FFB than PC games which can often be "overclocked" in order to "tell" FFB motors to run with more power.

From that same intention of yours comes the lack of sensation for the real qualities of CSRE (same would probably be with T500RS in your example). From driving/handling point-of-view, main strength of CSRE comes from 2 things: precision of steering (result of DirectSensor technology) and belt-driven FFB mechanism with 3 motors which allows for extremely smooth steering and unique feel for countersteer torque where you can feel the weight-gain and weight-release during slowdowns and countersteering.

The later is also my personal favourite part of the CSRE sensation.

IMO The CSRE is really a league of its own because it produces the "feel" and sensation of steering unlike any other wheel outthere. I had numerous wheels so far, with G25 being my main weapon of choice for years, even when I decided to switch to Fanatec with than introduced GT3V2 and GT2 wheels. But CSRE completely changed everything - and mind you that GT5 is game that I play 90% of my gaming time - and become the only wheel that I use at this moment.

It seems to me like your criticism is result of not getting something that no wheel can actually provide you on consoles - extremely strong FFB effect. However, stronger is not always better - quite the opposite in this particular case I have to admit.. My suggestion to you would be to try to lower FFB on both game/CSRE and try to discover the subtle details in FFB regarding actual *feel* for tyres and suspension that can only be felt in smoothness delivered by belt-driven wheels (either Fanatec or T500RS).

Those details and their representation in sensation of steer is something that makes CSRE so unique in my personal opinion. For sheer feel of *power* of FFB you'd have to search on some other platforms, mainly PC.
 
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I haven't read all this...

But try going back to your dfgt. Then you will notice the difference.

I did and its huge!! That's why I'm still using the csr e!
 
👍 for Amar

nice response

on the topic, i moved from the G25 to the CSR-E, and i think the FFB and precision of the Elite is by far better.
I really like the cleanness of the effects, strength is just right, for me also on 80 setting.
To FM4, the effects felt in the beginning a little dull, but still great.
After the update to 721B the effects were perfect (for the Forza style).
 
@amar

I agree with most of your settings except the FFB. It was proven that if you turn down FFB on the wheel to (I take your example) 80%, the wheel just cuts off the last 20%. So all effects up to 80% strengths will not change its intensity.

So the only setting which makes sense is 100%. then turn down FFB in the GT5 options menu to the value you prefer.
 
Hi Amar, I will certainly try those settings; have to wait until after work today I'm afraid (although I work from home, so I could technically just go downstairs, but thats cheating :))

And I have tried to make it clear that the FFB "power" isn't an issue, I am not complaining at all on the POWER of the FFB. if I turn everything up to 11, the wheel will snap out of my hands if I do something silly; the wheel strength has never been a complaint of mine, and I have tried to be as specific on the issue as possible.

It is indeed this "feel", particularly with the front end and I am missing from this wheel, and what I expected to gain moving to this from the DFGT. The tactile feel from understeer just isn't there - which may be due to me running everything at max; perhaps that little drop-off in grip when the front starts to slide, or you turn the wheel to much is being lost in over-saturation, but currently you can turn the wheel full lock on turn-in and it feels the same as what the max turn-in angle should be (if that makes sense).
 
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Mahnegold
@amar

I agree with most of your settings except the FFB. It was proven that if you turn down FFB on the wheel to (I take your example) 80%, the wheel just cuts off the last 20%. So all effects up to 80% strengths will not change its intensity.
Click to expand...

+1

Always run 100% FF on the wheel and tweak FFB strength in game when possible. The on wheel setting is not linear.

Also on GT5 never run less than 900 on wheel SEN as it messes up the feel of the FFB and mutes many subtle details as well.

Here's my post back in January on my settings.

thehawk05
In game:

Simulation mode
Feedback strength: 4
Vibration on

SEN 900 ( going lower wipes out a lot of FFB info like understeer)
FF 100 ( if you want FFB stronger or lighter do it in the game menu. Dropping it on the wheel causes a loss of FFB effects )
Sho 100
dri OFF
Abs 75
Lin 0
dEA 0
SPr -3 (dropping this seems to improve the feel of the onset of understeer as I think GT5 sends quite strong centering forces to the wheel)
dPr -3
ACL off
Click to expand...
 
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Just a final input on this thread; it's the game (GT5, that is). I finally bought a 360 over the weekend and Forza 4, and the CSR-E is amazing, as is Forza 4. I feel like I've been on the wrong side of an argument for a very long time regarding GT5 being more "realistic" than Forza 4.

It isn't. Period. Especially with the CSR-E - it's so much harder to nail a perfect lap due to exactly the issues I was having in GT5 - complete lack of feel with the front slip angle, and tire load. In Forza 4, you have these in spades, and if you get it wrong, you pay for it, dearly.

Trail braking works like it should, loads up the front; but if you do it do much, the front just washes out, just as in a real car. You can feel exactly where the front is gripping, and when it loses it - just absolutely sick. I had fun in GT5, and the skills certainly transferred to Forza 4 but... I can't see playing GT5 again after running in Forza 4 - just so much to learn, real chassis tuning and tire pressure that works as an actual car should (within reason).

So, problem solved. CSR-E wheel is the absolute NUTS in Forza 4, and all of my complaints on front feel were specifically related to GT5. Kinda disappointed now I "wasted" this much time in GT5, but I think that actually makes me appreciate it more.

Cheers and happy racing, no matter your sim.
 
Many people didn't realise what op is saying...
Hes not talking about power but about the actual feedback.

But i'll give you the answr - dont blame CSR-E, its not it's fault, it's GT5's problem.
GT5 ffb, although great in some aspects lacks a few crucial things:
1. UNDERSTEER EFFECT
2. FRONT END WEIGHT SHIFT
3. RUMBLE STRIP FFB

Rear end is amazing, it really is but front end is just not there (and by some miracle people say DFGT has that feedback, although I havent used DFGT on GT5 and cant tell, i didnt try T500RS neither so I cant say).
Its the gt5s problem but your wheel is great, run it on something like LFS, rFactor, iRacing and enjoy!
 
^^ Still don't understand how people were reading what I wrote and not getting it.

And the brakes... being able to feel the tires load up with that kick a$$ load-cell pedal is just sick. You slam the brakes on? The tires lock. You progressively press the pedal to the point right before lockup? You stick like glue; trail the brake into the corner to retain front end bite, and throttle out - so charming, heart warming even, if your a car guy.

Still getting used to it (been playing since Sunday), but what an absolute world of difference. Finally understand what all the fuss is about on the CSR-E wheel and pedal combo. And having a sim that doesn't understand tire deformation and slip angles is just daft when you had that long to get it right.

So any/all complaints I had about the CSR-E are null/void - I even started driving with gloves so the crappy rim isn't even an issue anymore. The T500RS may be "the" wheel to drive GT5 with, but the CSR-E certainly isn't. It's like using a $400 sushi knife to cut bait with. Not the right tool for the job, but you certainly can't blame the knife.
 
Same story. gt2 is dead in gt5 but very good in forza and much better in iraxcing. Depends on the game. I can imagine the elite or the csw in iracing.:drool:
 
Took me a little while to adjust to Forza 4's force feedback using the Elite, it felt quite realistic, yet dull.

However, since ditching GT/PC sims and sticking at Forza, gradually it has begun to feel better and better, now I love it. I'd still like to feel more of the road surface to come through.
 
Gt5s ffb isn't all that bad, rear end ffb is really good, its got some great effects and strength is good, there are some good things in it... i wouldnt call it top notch but its pretty impresive for a console. its a real shame theres no understeer ffb, so the only way to notice understeer is by sound or tire heat indicator.
But i have a gt3 rs, and i guess thats the best you should go for on gt5 tbh. CSR-E is an overkill for gt5 and maybe is even t500rs (never used it, cant say for sure), since you can never fully experience these wheels' full ffb potential on GT5, GT3 RS is the wheel to go for if your only doing GT5, everything over it is just overkilling it and a waste of money (from a ffb improvement perspective).
What im trying to say is this - you buy dfgt, you experience ffb, you then buy a g27, you notice the difference, you then buy gt3 rs - you notice huge difference, and then you buy CSR-E and you only notice a change in strength and some effects and thats it, rotation speed too and better feel but thats not the point, leap from Gt3 RS to CSRE can never be as big a leap as from G25 to GT3rs and only because gt5 cant use csre's full potential.
Also, another thing which shouldnt be forgotten is that gt5 doesn't support fanatec wheels, theyre supported via G25 emulation.
 
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