"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[RacingGrandpa]

I can't remember the exact braking points but I tend to employ a lot of the technique you mention. I'm gonna have to continue to work hard at it. I can say one thing, I learned a lot from my failures today. But I still swear that my luck had me behind early brakers and this wasn't even in early laps when there is a train in front of me.


Edit - I just watched the first replay and the first incident had a guy brake about 15 metres before the double pylon brake marker at turn one (which is already pretty damn early of you ask me).

Edit 2 - the double pylons are placed about 5 to 10 metres before the start of the curb on the left. From the replay, it looked like he was straight up brake checking me. I'll just take the inside from now on.

That does sound very early, it might be brake checking but it could also be the slower tire and no confidence in it.

 

[BigSarj]

That does sound very early, it might be brake checking but it could also be the slower tire and no confidence in it.

Damn, yeah, that could very well be true. But watching the replays, even though I lost a lot of positions today, I did have some great moments, too.

I think I am too nice in these longer races. If I even get the slightest inkling that the person behind me might be faster than me, I take the outside line, only to realize that he or she is most certainly not faster than me. Is there, like, some kind of art to understanding when to let someone pass and when to defend? Or like so many other racing skills, does it just come with time?

 

[D_Dragline]

I can't remember the exact braking points but I tend to employ a lot of the technique you mention. I'm gonna have to continue to work hard at it. I can say one thing, I learned a lot from my failures today. But I still swear that my luck had me behind early brakers and this wasn't even in early laps when there is a train in front of me.


Edit - I just watched the first replay and the first incident had a guy brake about 15 metres before the double pylon brake marker at turn one (which is already pretty damn early of you ask me).

Edit 2 - the double pylons are placed about 5 to 10 metres before the start of the curb on the left. From the replay, it looked like he was straight up brake checking me. I'll just take the inside from now on.

That's overtaking territory. I'm getting about 25 extra metres of full throttle and would expect to be a full car length in front by the apex.

Damn, yeah, that could very well be true. But watching the replays, even though I lost a lot of positions today, I did have some great moments, too.

I think I am too nice in these longer races. If I even get the slightest inkling that the person behind me might be faster than me, I take the outside line, only to realize that he or she is most certainly not faster than me. Is there, like, some kind of art to understanding when to let someone pass and when to defend? Or like so many other racing skills, does it just come with time?

For me there's a difference between not defending and giving up a place. If I think the guy behind is quicker I won't defend, but I equally won't leave the racing line to give up a place. If he gets beside me at any point I'll lift to let him go, but not before.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Damn, yeah, that could very well be true. But watching the replays, even though I lost a lot of positions today, I did have some great moments, too.

I think I am too nice in these longer races. If I even get the slightest inkling that the person behind me might be faster than me, I take the outside line, only to realize that he or she is most certainly not faster than me. Is there, like, some kind of art to understanding when to let someone pass and when to defend? Or like so many other racing skills, does it just come with time?

It does get easier to judge by time. I usually doesn't defend in the early parts of a race, only the last one or two laps. But I don't pull aside either, I stay on my line and let them find the way around.
In the last lap I defend though. Hold the defensive line, slow down at apex etc etc

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Is there, like, some kind of art to understanding when to let someone pass and when to defend?

If they've pitted and are on a different strategy it's not worth defending, otherwise I would fight for every position.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

If they've pitted and are on a different strategy it's not worth defending, otherwise I would fight for every position.

I can understand why you do that, you are fast enough to make it work.
For me, if a driver is clearly faster I don't fight him, I stay on line and when he passed I try to get his slip and follow him. That might help me to get faster and we won't waste time fighting and letting the rest catch up.

That being said, when it's you overtaking me I usually just tip my hat and wish you good speed. Because I can't keep up (I will defend though, especially in a reverse grid race)

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I can understand why you do that, you are fast enough to make it work.
For me, if a driver is clearly faster I don't fight him, I stay on line and when he passed I try to get his slip and follow him. That might help me to get faster and we won't waste time fighting and letting the rest catch up.

That being said, when it's you overtaking me I usually just tip my hat and wish you good speed. Because I can't keep up (I will defend though, especially in a reverse grid race)

I see it as a challenge, the quicker they are the more it means to finish ahead of them (especially if they're a streamer too, sorry Igor, sorry @zavisic_!). In cars which suffer from dirty air it's not worth letting people pass because you'll automatically drop at least a second.

 

[O604]

For me, if a driver is clearly faster I don't fight him, I stay on line and when he passed I try to get his slip and follow him. That might help me to get faster and we won't waste time fighting and letting the rest catch up.

I feel the same. Personally I let 90% of people by (if they are closing in). I don't get the position back often, but for me it's my favorite driving challenge.

I try to pay attention to the start grid. Taking note of higher DR and names I recognize. And watch the rear view and radar/map to gauge distance. Radar for close view, Map for more distance. The more I do this, the better I get at predicting driver behavior. Since I know I'm not getting much faster, I need to find other ways to improve. And this I feel has made me confident enough to race with much faster people. 👍

 

[ILLEAGLE_34]

What's the Q times for Race B like this week? I logged on briefly yesterday evening and just ran a bunch of laps in the Genesis and R8 to try challenge a mate who's logged a 1:44:4XX in the Beetle. Managed a 1:45:7XX in the R8 and was on track for a 1:44 but threw it away like a fool into the last chicane and didn't have time to try again. Genesis felt stable and dependable as always, but I couldn't get any better than a 1:45:8, but 4 laps within 0.2s of each other, so might be my go-to for the race (if I get the chance to get stuck in for a few races!).

EDIT: Anyone using GTBlade finding it a bit buggy this week? I've got no Q time on my main account, despite running Q laps there last night, and a Q time on my alt, even though I haven't used my alt this week. Checked a friend's times and it's only giving 1200 times for Race B... ?

If haven’t yet , check

I lost 4000 DR today so nothing can kill my confidence further.

These early brakers were in the first three races today but I had no issues in the last two races. I've been trying my best to qualify further ahead but to no avail. If I could manage my tire wear better, I wouldn't be spinning out in the latter parts of the race.

I'm never behind them for long. I get a penalty, I pass them, then see them disappear into the rearview. But inevitably, I spin out, and once I spin out once, I will likely spin again.

My second to last race was going well until someone bumped me off the track and I couldn't recover. After that, I gave up and got so frustrated that I started doing doughnuts until last place passed me.

A similar thing happened in the last race except I spun myself out. Again and again. It was like my subconscious was doing it.

I had no issues in the Gr2 races at LMGP2 the other week. I had a ton of success there. Went from C to halfway to A. But I am loving the combo so I will continue to do this race until I get to DR D if I have to.

I lost 4000 DR today so nothing can kill my confidence further.

These early brakers were in the first three races today but I had no issues in the last two races. I've been trying my best to qualify further ahead but to no avail. If I could manage my tire wear better, I wouldn't be spinning out in the latter parts of the race.

I'm never behind them for long. I get a penalty, I pass them, then see them disappear into the rearview. But inevitably, I spin out, and once I spin out once, I will likely spin again.

My second to last race was going well until someone bumped me off the track and I couldn't recover. After that, I gave up and got so frustrated that I started doing doughnuts until last place passed me.

A similar thing happened in the last race except I spun myself out. Again and again. It was like my subconscious was doing it.

I had no issues in the Gr2 races at LMGP2 the other week. I had a ton of success there. Went from C to halfway to A. But I am loving the combo so I will continue to do this race until I get to DR D if I have to.

Not sure you tcs settings but for myself I run tcs 0. Unless I have cold tires or go off track and get dirty tires or even very worn out tires toward the end of their life. I’ll use tcs 1-2 and with dirty tires I’ll just crank it up 3-4 until the tires are clean and then turn it back off. I also may use some tcs if I’m nervous while racing or it happens to be a ruff and bumpy race. Hope this helps you out. P.s the early braking is probably people trying to conserve tire life by coasting a little into the braking zone?

 

[Little_Guppy]

@BigSarj ,

re: Fuji and Group 2.

There is a bigger spread in group 2 driving. If you are normally 1% off the pace in Group 4 expect to be 2% off in Group 2. It is not you. It is the formula. If you are new to group 2 expect a learning curve.

As @ILLEAGLE_34 alluded the early brakers may be saving tire tread. Fuji is x13 for tire wear this week. How do their tires look at the end of the race? How do yours look compared to others?

Are you running QT type laps during the race? If so, it may be worth a change. In a tire saving race it is critical to save tires and that means:
- minimize tire squeal during turns,
- lighten your braking minimizing when you are at 100% (this is hard),
- avoid spinning your rear tires.
Race trim is different than QT - different skillset. And I forgot... don't let the other guy pass you while doing all of that.

My advice. Set a decent QT time then move on an be happy. Use your new found practice time to put on the hard tires, brake at the cones (earlier), use less braking force and more steering into the corners. Aim for decently fast but consistent times. You will learn more car control under braking conditions and that is useful in a race when you need to adjust to a competing car. It beats praying.

PS: I am losing DR at Fuji this week. And loving it.

 

[KosmoKazi]

What Guppy said:

My K' speed score for Nxxx: about 85
My K' speed score for Gr4: about 80
My K' speed score for Gr3: about 75
My K' speed score for Gr2: about 70
My K' speed score for Gr1: about 67
My K' speed score for SF: about 60

Definitely a bigger spread as the formula / spec goes to the pointy end of the speed spectrum. Any mistake is amplified a lot, and the speed disparity from average to really good to alien is much bigger.

(I keep a spreadsheet, so I know this data, you can't sort for it in Kudosprime)

@BigSarj ,

re: Fuji and Group 2.

There is a bigger spread in group 2 driving. If you are normally 1% off the pace in Group 4 expect to be 2% off in Group 2. It is not you. It is the formula. If you are new to group 2 expect a learning curve.

As @ILLEAGLE_34 alluded the early brakers may be saving tire tread. Fuji is x13 for tire wear this week. How do their tires look at the end of the race? How do yours look compared to others?

Are you running QT type laps during the race? If so, it may be worth a change. In a tire saving race it is critical to save tires and that means:
- minimize tire squeal during turns,
- lighten your braking minimizing when you are at 100% (this is hard),
- avoid spinning your rear tires.
Race trim is different than QT - different skillset. And I forgot... don't let the other guy pass you while doing all of that.

My advice. Set a decent QT time then move on an be happy. Use your new found practice time to put on the hard tires, brake at the cones (earlier), use less braking force and more steering into the corners. Aim for decently fast but consistent times. You will learn more car control under braking conditions and that is useful in a race when you need to adjust to a competing car. It beats praying.

PS: I am losing DR at Fuji this week. And loving it.

 

[BigSarj]

@BigSarj ,

re: Fuji and Group 2.

There is a bigger spread in group 2 driving. If you are normally 1% off the pace in Group 4 expect to be 2% off in Group 2. It is not you. It is the formula. If you are new to group 2 expect a learning curve.

As @ILLEAGLE_34 alluded the early brakers may be saving tire tread. Fuji is x13 for tire wear this week. How do their tires look at the end of the race? How do yours look compared to others?

Are you running QT type laps during the race? If so, it may be worth a change. In a tire saving race it is critical to save tires and that means:
- minimize tire squeal during turns,
- lighten your braking minimizing when you are at 100% (this is hard),
- avoid spinning your rear tires.
Race trim is different than QT - different skillset. And I forgot... don't let the other guy pass you while doing all of that.

My advice. Set a decent QT time then move on an be happy. Use your new found practice time to put on the hard tires, brake at the cones (earlier), use less braking force and more steering into the corners. Aim for decently fast but consistent times. You will learn more car control under braking conditions and that is useful in a race when you need to adjust to a competing car. It beats praying.

PS: I am losing DR at Fuji this week. And loving it.

Ok, I'm not alone in the losing DR and having fun. Good to know.

This is great advice. Tire wear is a major weakpoint. I figured there are no resources for advice on it because it's likely common sense stuff but I needed to read this.

@ILLEAGLE_34 I use TCS 0 and am very reluctant to turn it on but, yeah, lap 7 on worn mediums is really hard so I will have to consider it. I'm going to try to implement the advice from @Little_Guppy because if I don't spin out, maybe I'll only lose 500 DR instead of 1000 DR.

It's definitely been fun but this Gr 2 race is really different than the one at LMGP2 or RBR a few weeks ago.

 

[Little_Guppy]

Ok, I'm not alone in the losing DR and having fun. Good to know.

This is great advice. Tire wear is a major weakpoint. I figured there are no resources for advice on it because it's likely common sense stuff but I needed to read this.

@ILLEAGLE_34 I use TCS 0 and am very reluctant to turn it on but, yeah, lap 7 on worn mediums is really hard so I will have to consider it. I'm going to try to implement the advice from @Little_Guppy because if I don't spin out, maybe I'll only lose 500 DR instead of 1000 DR.

It's definitely been fun but this Gr 2 race is really different than the one at LMGP2 or RBR a few weeks ago.

So I took a look at your kudo page for DR and all. You have had a big jump in the last week or two. Congratulations!

Of course, this now means that you will be paired with more skilled racers. Your upswing probably coincided with a combo that you favored and now you are at a new combo back in learning mode. Both of those things will challenge you and you will get better for it. Losing DR is unavoidable and part of the "getting-better" experience. It is not a one way graph. Enjoy the ride.

 

[BigSarj]

So I took a look at your kudo page for DR and all. You have had a big jump in the last week or two. Congratulations!

Of course, this now means that you will be paired with more skilled racers. Your upswing probably coincided with a combo that you favored and now you are at a new combo back in learning mode. Both of those things will challenge you and you will get better for it. Losing DR is unavoidable and part of the "getting-better" experience. It is not a one way graph. Enjoy the ride.

Tell me about it. Putting me in a race with a bunch of A drivers lol

 

[Little_Guppy]

Tell me about it. Putting me in a race with a bunch of A drivers lol

And we were paired in a race! Enjoy!

 

[BigSarj]

And we were paired in a race! Enjoy!

Ya man that was cool. It was my first race so my inputs were janky.

My next race was a true B lobby and I went from 13 to 7, despite being knocked off the track twice and taking myself off the track once. Now that is the GTS I know and love!

 

[UnkaD]

Did some Sport mode for the first time in three years. Had a lot of fun, but I have an issue with something. I love JGTC and Super GT, so I love Gr.2. I did the race C a few times. First with the '08 Lexus and then the '16 Nissan, both times finishing about 4 or 5 places ahead of where I started.

The issue is in trying the NSX, 'cause I love the Hondas and Kunimitsu is the team I root for, and I noticed the first two races that it was almost all Nissans and NO ONE drove a Honda.

So I give it a go and everything feels great. I move up the field no problem and manage the tires the same as I did with the other cars, but at lap 7 the rear tires suddenly become concrete. Like the flip of a switch there is absolutely no rear grip and the car is impossible to drive. All the front-runners that pitted pass me by and after I leave the pits myself I am dead last about 10 seconds behind the next guy. I lost that much time in one lap! It was disgusting.

And it made me wonder, because I was in a room on Fuji a few days back where someone was practicing for a league or something. With tire wear and fuel both at x1 I did three full fuel stints on medium tires in the very same car and had absolutely no problems with grip or wear. And the whole time I was driving at a stronger pace than I managed in this race. I feel like the accelerated tire wear shouldn't have that strong of an impact, and only with one car from the group.

 

[NoStopN]

That does sound very early, it might be brake checking but it could also be the slower tire and no confidence in it.

I'll vouch for the lack of confidence on cold tires (more so on the harder compound). I tend to brake with the front tires at the braking markers on the harder compound, with the rear tires parallel to those markers on the softer compound. On lap 1 at turn 1, I brake at pit exit.

 

[Little_Guppy]

Did some Sport mode for the first time in three years. Had a lot of fun, but I have an issue with something. I love JGTC and Super GT, so I love Gr.2. I did the race C a few times. First with the '08 Lexus and then the '16 Nissan, both times finishing about 4 or 5 places ahead of where I started.

The issue is in trying the NSX, 'cause I love the Hondas and Kunimitsu is the team I root for, and I noticed the first two races that it was almost all Nissans and NO ONE drove a Honda.

So I give it a go and everything feels great. I move up the field no problem and manage the tires the same as I did with the other cars, but at lap 7 the rear tires suddenly become concrete. Like the flip of a switch there is absolutely no rear grip and the car is impossible to drive. All the front-runners that pitted pass me by and after I leave the pits myself I am dead last about 10 seconds behind the next guy. I lost that much time in one lap! It was disgusting.

And it made me wonder, because I was in a room on Fuji a few days back where someone was practicing for a league or something. With tire wear and fuel both at x1 I did three full fuel stints on medium tires in the very same car and had absolutely no problems with grip or wear. And the whole time I was driving at a stronger pace than I managed in this race. I feel like the accelerated tire wear shouldn't have that strong of an impact, and only with one car from the group.

In Feb, at RBR, the Honda NSX dominated QT but is somewhat sketchy riding the curbs and I speculated that it was worse on tire wear.

Saw you at Fuji today. Cheers!

 

[BigSarj]

I am minding my own business, driving on the outside line approaching turn one. Guy comes out of the pits and decides to swerve in front of me right at the last moment before I brake. No avoiding it. 2 second penalty, even though he was fine. It effectively ruined my race.

This is a B driver. There is no way this wasn't on purpose, right?

I switched to the RC F and it works a tad better for me. Even took a half second off my qualify time.

 

[jwaaa17]

made it to dr c tonight! yea me.

 

[BigSarj]

Wins achievement level 2 let's gooo! The lexus is awesome. For all the hell I went through today, ending it with a win kinda makes it all worth it.

 

[Groundfish]

Hmmm.
I entered one A race, no qual...I couldn’t start last there was a B S player starting behind me. Into turn 1 the guy ahead of me ran wide, guys ahead were sorting themselves, I was behind the car in front of me on inside, all the gap filled I could do, I was rammed by the BS idiot behind in a PIT like maneuver I managed to not get spun but came out of turn 1 last by a huge margin.
I knew it.
Tsukuba sucks unless pens are strict.
I entered c race after that why I don’t know.
I stayed out longer than the leaders (I started last) on medium tire.
I was rammed several times during the course of the race but the most annoying was crab something using me as a bank in turn one to ram through.
I got hit from behind and given pen.
It was atrocious.
That track is so worthless I hate it.
I’m not racing anymore until next week.

 

[BigSarj]

@UnkaD I was also in that race with Guppy. I just watched the replay.

Two things: your Pennzoil livery is an absolute beauty. Did you make it? And if so, would you mind sharing it?

Also, the Brazilian you were battling - you guys were busy duking it out so I made l what I believe to be a clean pass between the two of you and that jerk knocked me off the track. I analyzed it and there is no mistake, in my mind. He somehow didn't get a penalty. Strange.

 

[Neroglia]

Took a few races, got used to the new penalty system, built my SR back. Now back at S, the racing is so... cordial. People are a lot more polite as anything can give you a penalty. I love it for now. You really can't hope to brake early enough, you want to make sure.

I am actually more happy now that when people out brake themselves and hit you, I can sort of believe more they just screwed up, rather than being malicious. Like I don't spend the next 4 corners stewing over it, just the next 1. I am slowly building up my speed and consistency with Group 3 cars now (still hideously slow in Gr 2), though I still can't qualify well. Generally I gain places, but did run into trouble in 1 or 2 races when I get caught by the fighting. Is good, I definitely enjoy a bit more when I can sort of trust my opponents a bit more to be nice.

 

[fisheye]

Hmmm.
I entered one A race, no qual...I couldn’t start last there was a B S player starting behind me. Into turn 1 the guy ahead of me ran wide, guys ahead were sorting themselves, I was behind the car in front of me on inside, all the gap filled I could do, I was rammed by the BS idiot behind in a PIT like maneuver I managed to not get spun but came out of turn 1 last by a huge margin.
I knew it.
Tsukuba sucks unless pens are strict.
I entered c race after that why I don’t know.
I stayed out longer than the leaders (I started last) on medium tire.
I was rammed several times during the course of the race but the most annoying was crab something using me as a bank in turn one to ram through.
I got hit from behind and given pen.
It was atrocious.
That track is so worthless I hate it.
I’m not racing anymore until next week.

That Porsche with Sport Mediums on that track... No thanks. Wheel users may have a chance but trying to keep that slug on the track with a DS4 is impossible for me, especially the way I drive.

 

[Groundfish]

That Porsche with Sport Mediums on that track... No thanks. Wheel users may have a chance but trying to keep that slug on the track with a DS4 is impossible for me, especially the way I drive.

That cars not much fun there on wheel, either.

 

[Mc_Yavel]

Doing a couple of Race A this week. Manage a decent 1.03.6 witch put me at the front for the moment. Race is good, it's more a game of waiting the opportunities. I'm just trying to be consistent and smooth hoping the guy in front will make a mistake. Out of the 6-7 races I did since monday I manage 1 win.

Sometimes magic happens with this car, where you are hard on the brake, the back of the car want to go front and you have to get back on gaz hard and doing that ending up having the same shape as the curve.magic.

What Guppy said:

My K' speed score for Nxxx: about 85
My K' speed score for Gr4: about 80
My K' speed score for Gr3: about 75
My K' speed score for Gr2: about 70
My K' speed score for Gr1: about 67
My K' speed score for SF: about 60

Definitely a bigger spread as the formula / spec goes to the pointy end of the speed spectrum. Any mistake is amplified a lot, and the speed disparity from average to really good to alien is much bigger.

(I keep a spreadsheet, so I know this data, you can't sort for it in Kudosprime)

I am "maybe" A+ with N cars and B for racing cars. There is lot less of people doing Race A or N cars race. GT Blade showing this really well.
Out of my 523 race wins, only 99 came from Group 1-2-3-4.

 

[Little_Guppy]

<...snip...>
Out of my 523 race wins, only 99 came from Group 1-2-3-4.

How do you find out that information? Did you keep track yourself? Is there an online tracker for it?

 

[NoStopN]

How do you find out that information? Did you keep track yourself? Is there an online tracker for it?

I don't know about Yavel, but I keep track of wins, classes, & cars myself. I have 1 for each profile & then 1 cumulative.