"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

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KosmoKazi
Perhaps "love it" is too strong...
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No take backs. KozmoKazi looooves the Penalty System. :p:lol:

funny-memes-about-love-7-1.jpg
 
Oelph
Interesting time on Race A. On lap 4 around 6:34 I thought I’d been spun but looking at the reply I think it was my fault, I’d overcooked and moved to the left for the next corner straight into my opponent.

Close battle with clyde-8593 and then he seemed to brake and yield? I thought we’d had some fair racing so hoping he didn’t feel bad towards me.

And then on the final straight, xxxxxxxxx was getting his elbows out and I thought we were going to cross the finish line sideways.

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There is an odd rule and just an FYI... we are not supposed to include playstation user ids in our posts. Screenshots are OK but it can't be searchable. It is totally OK to use the gtplanet ids.

Emp9u
https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=11527379#dr
So after 50 days of hard trying, I have had enough.. Penalty system prefers only dirty drivers, not clean drivers as it should.
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This is a very difficult game and you are competing against others that are trying equally hard. You have much better progress after 50 days than I did. Look at the profiles of @OJBrit and @foolsgold74 who are starting to report greater success after several months of effort.

Aside from professional gamers it is simply not a realistic expectation to move to the top half in a short timespan.
 
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Last week at Nurburgring, best I could do is 2nd. I enjoyed the fuel race but it was no easy. Reading @Little_Guppy advise on how to race, I would do some thing differently now. My best second lap was 9:08.

Had the chance to race with @afc5150, glad you manage to run without a pitstop. In one of our race, we were fighting for podium and by the end of first lap I lost the car and hit the pit wall of the old track, had to reverse, then the car reset (about time! :irked:) and also got a 1.5 pen. Finished 17th.


And two podium finish from the back this morning at Autopolis! Beating two A+ driver, DR is on the rise!
 
baygencos
I liked the strict penalty system better. That's when my SR went mostly 99 and stayed there. Racing is a no contact sport. If u scratch my car i will destroy you!
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So how do you do that without contact?

From my experience maybe 70% or more of the contacts are initiated by mistake, by one or both involved.
So if you go ballistic and destroy a guy that scratch your car chances are you are one of the dirty drivers he talks about after the race.

About the current penalty system: last week on N24 was a testament to the failures of the penalty system. The ones going flat out and pitting forced the fuelsaving crowd off track in most of the races I was in, and they where never given a penalty.
I was also a victim of the trick @Groundfish talked about, the mini pit manouver before braking to unsettling the car you want to pass
It's low key as in not obvious but it is deliberately dirty. And no penalties are given for it.

When I was starting out in GTS it was before the Penalty Zones and things where better.
But since then my favourite is when they turn it off.
 
KosmoKazi
I think there is plenty of room for contact separate from the 'rubbing is racing' notion. Especially in 4-lap Daily Sprints, to assume that most classes of cars can race, instead of parade, with zero contact, is not realistic. The setup where ANY contact was a time penalty + SR down prohibited even sticking your nose in, especially as people learned to 'brake check without brake checking' and the poor guy who was only trying to look for an opening got an unfair penalty.
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Well first of all, 4 lap daily sprints are not races. :crazy:

All classes of cars can race contact free, all tracks are at least 3 car widths wide in the narrowest spots. N24 is a lot wider than it looks. (it's avg 26 to 30 ft wide, even the GMC Hummer is under 8 foot wide, mirrors included)

The poor guy who was only looking for an opening was driving too close if a slight lift results in contact. Starting an overtake in corners is not the way to do it. Either with a better corner exit after the corner, or in the braking zone after establishing overlap.


Any so what if any contact is a penalty. Shared fault, the car in front gets the penalty as well for his move.

PD made 2 major faults:
- DR discrimination, higher DR gets treated with worse penalties / SR deductions and tighter triggers.
This is completely upside down and no wonder the fast players started complaining loudly
- The SR system, total nonsense.
Gaining SR for simply staying on track is wrong, basing it on race length is wrong, and it's way too easy to lose and gain SR.
A measure of nr of contacts over time (including walls and off track excursions) would work, I'm sure of it.

Plus they need(ed) to refine the ghosting system. People getting back on track and unghosting without warning, always cause for more problems. Instead shared fault again when you touch a ghost. Ghosting is an extreme measure not to kill the race, but you should still avoid ghosts. And people getting back on track should not assume they can do so freely because the game ghosts them.


In the last year PD has successfully managed to drive most of the contact free racers away from daily races. I only saw one or two of the old faces in my 66 races on N24 last week, and they only entered one or two races. All the other contact free racers that were a pleasure to race with, gone. I'm in semi retirement as well after 12,500 sport mode races, and only come back for special occasions (like N24, 787B Sarthe and rain races if we ever see those again)

Sticking your nose in, bad practice imo. Plan ahead, set up a move, follow it through. Sticking your nose next to a rear bumper just because you had the draft and can block them from the racing line that way, bad sport.
 
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Anyway, I take it all back. Race A is a cesspool of rabid pigs from anywhere worse than 3rd starting position. And with the current contact-allowing penalty system, you have no chance to protect yourself once the mob swells behind.

As a side note: it's actually better to start 2nd in that race than pole... you have a good line on the critical long curb in T1, and then the best position heading into the tricky chicane, which allows you also to gain a run out of it, after you've protected yourself with a nice deep drive onto the apex into the first left hander.

But yeah, from 4th back... danger zone of unsurvivable proportions. Was 'lucky' enough that a couple of the top-10 QT guys were in my latest race, including #1 ...and of course: was on the main account, giving back all the DR I got yesterday and this morning, in one quick mistake of a race, along with an SR down for contact that more or less was unavoidable in the mosh pit.

Sven Jurgens
Well first of all, 4 lap daily sprints are not races. :crazy:

Sticking your nose in, bad practice imo. Plan ahead, set up a move, follow it through. Sticking your nose next to a rear bumper just because you had the draft and can block them from the racing line that way, bad sport.
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Sven: massive respect for your record online here, but it's a little unrealistic to suggest that sticking your nose in to anticipate any opening that comes up, even when you can hold the apex and fairly defend your position when that happens, isn't fair game, in a 4-lap Daily. That's the subject. A penalty system that completely prohibits that for races that are that short, where you may have 3-6 corners over the course of a race to actually pass, doesn't make sense. Contact that doesn't alter the outcome of a race shouldn't be penalized, end stop. There is no capital equipment or lives at stake, it's an arcade racing game. Now, different story for Race C or longer FIA type races, I get it, but this is the Daily Race thread, and those 4-lap sprints have to allow for some incidental contact without knocking your SR down or time penalties that prevent anyone from even engaging.
 
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I was not faulting the drivers that use their cars assertively (ie- rubbing/racing) and and aggressively defending their driving line, the ones i do fault are the ones that take offense to such and go about to bash others completely off track, stomping on brakes in mid straight to get the trailing car a penalty, and the other poor behavior.
I have defended my line, i have nudged into the inside corner when i could without "hitting" the opponent hard to shove him off, i have even applied brakes early before a turn i know i cannot handle easily at higher speeds. My total aim is to be good at racing, and to get some respect from my peers on the track that i am fair and not a bloody fool that doesn't care.
thank you for listening...

P.S. posting my video of the poor drivers i have encountered will not add positively to this discussion, so I will not do so. i will do my best to adhere to doing the best i can, improving where i need , and always to play fair.
 
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KosmoKazi
Anyway, I take it all back. Race A is a cesspool of rabid pigs from anywhere worse than 3rd starting position. And with the current contact-allowing penalty system, you have no chance to protect yourself once the mob swells behind.

As a side note: it's actually better to start 2nd in that race than pole... you have a good line on the critical long curb in T1, and then the best position heading into the tricky chicane, which allows you also to gain a run out of it, after you've protected yourself with a nice deep drive onto the apex into the first left hander.

But yeah, from 4th back... danger zone of unsurvivable proportions. Was 'lucky' enough that a couple of the top-10 QT guys were in my latest race, including #1 ...and of course: was on the main account, giving back all the DR I got yesterday and this morning, in one quick mistake of a race, along with an SR down for contact that more or less was unavoidable in the mosh pit.



Sven: massive respect for your record online here, but it's a little unrealistic to suggest that sticking your nose in to anticipate any opening that comes up, even when you can hold the apex and fairly defend your position when that happens, isn't fair game, in a 4-lap Daily. That's the subject. A penalty system that completely prohibits that for races that are that short, where you may have 3-6 corners over the course of a race to actually pass, doesn't make sense. Contact that doesn't alter the outcome of a race shouldn't be penalized, end stop. There is no capital equipment or lives at stake, it's an arcade racing game. Now, different story for Race C or longer FIA type races, I get it, but this is the Daily Race thread, and those 4-lap sprints have to allow for some incidental contact without knocking your SR down or time penalties that prevent anyone from even engaging.
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That's why we need to go back to the old system. You used to have SR Downs (minor ones) for contact without a penalty. Contact that doesn't really effect anyone used to be -1 to -3 SR for the slight tap. No penalty.

And yes it should effect your Safety Rating (forget about sportmanship, hollow term). Measured over time it will sort those that can actually race contact free in different lobbies than those that don't mind the occasional rub.

At some point PD went fully mad, any contact that triggers a reaction, automatic -10 SR plus some random time penalty. All or nothing approaches never work.

In a perfect world the game would actually know about racing rules, overlap, corner rights, 1 move rule, pit exit line, etc. Yet since that seems out of reach (lag makes it all very difficult to figure out overlap before turn in etc) measuring the nr of contacts you're involved in over time will work. Insurance companies use the same principle when analyzing your driving style. (except they measure hard acceleration/deceleration over time)

"it's an arcade racing game" sadly that's very true atm. It used to be closer to motor sport, but indeed currently its just an arcade racing game.
 
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Sven Jurgens
That's why we need to go back to the old system. You used to have SR Downs (minor ones) for contact without a penalty. Contact that doesn't really effect anyone used to be -1 to -3 SR for the slight tap. No penalty.

And yes it should effect your Safety Rating (forget about sportmanship, hollow term). Measured over time it will sort those that can actually race contact free in different lobbies than those that don't mind the occasional rub.

At some point PD went fully mad, any contact that triggers a reaction, automatic -10 SR plus some random time penalty. All or nothing approaches never work.

In a perfect world the game would actually know about racing rules, overlap, corner rights, 1 move rule, pit exit line, etc. Yet since that seems out of reach (lag makes it all very difficult to figure out overlap before turn in etc) measuring the nr of contacts you're involved in over time will work. Insurance companies use the same principle when analyzing your driving style. (except they measure hard acceleration/deceleration over time)
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Very good points. Agree with that. It's the time penalties that were obnoxious and race killers. I agree cumulative contact should be measured and eventually be reflected in SR, no question.

Sven Jurgens
"it's an arcade racing game" sadly that's very true atm. It used to be closer to motor sport, but indeed currently its just an arcade racing game.
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Want to be clear here: Daily Races, 4 laps long, with the typical settings, are not representative of any reasonable real racing. From that perspective, we can't pretend it's a simulation, because from a competition point of view, it would be pointless (no one would participate in GT3 cars in a 4-lap race).

I love the pseudo-simulation accessibility of GT Sport, but it's not a simulation, it's a game. That said, I try my best to play it by the same rules I'd race IRL with, albeit with a little less margin for safety, especially in a 4-lap Daily.
 
I can confirm that the NISMO Longboi does not work. There are too many consecutive low-mid speed corners, so whenever you remotely try to accelerate, the hybrid sends you understeering into the grass.

Wish PD would just give us Gr.1 on a track with mostly high-speed corners. The Longboi's mostly fine in those — it's got absurd amounts of high-speed downforce, and the hybrid's all gone by then so no risk of major understeer. Let it loose on Tokyo East or something. When it's up to speed it handles like a go-kart.
 
The current system is cool, but the implementation is a bit poo.

Yesterday for Race C I had a very good race where I was 6th behind 5th all race, we both started mediums, tried to undercut and run 7 laps on the soft on the leaders who were squabbling a lot. Worked a treat, passed 4th and 3rd (on Meds anyway), 2nd wrecked themselves and 1st was overtaken on track as they were on reverse strategy too.

I had at points a lot more speed than 1st, at points they drove quite a bit better in the 5 or so laps we battled. There were a couple slight bump incidents where I misjudged their braking points or how cautious they were mid corner, but otherwise we had a very clean race between us. Eventually finished 3 seconds behind as I overcooked a corner a bit trying to get very close for a passing opportunity. They defended hard when I had a good run, I tried to stay close as I can without accidentally tripping both of us.

Now, I wouldn't call my 2 bumps "clean", they definitely lost time as their lines were knocked slightly. I didn't try to overtake them at all and I lost time overall in just being a fair sport, as I should. Should I get downgraded SR, I don't think so as it weren't consequential mistakes and was quite minor. Should I be given the full SR boost? Also no as I definitely weren't completely clean. Over 12 laps, if the SR boost is 4 or 5 if I am not 99, I would had been satisfied if it was a +2. If I did it a lot over a race, like 5 times, I don't think I deserve a SR boost at all, if not a decrease. At the moment, is like an all or nothing without incremental creeps.

Because as it is, a guy who made a dreadful mistake once in 12 laps will get 10 SR drop for that 2 second penalty, even if they stayed clean rest of the way. Whereas the guy who initiates a lot of contact won't be penalised overall if they didn't get a SR drop warning, and that don't send the right message. A guy more assholey than me could had made the most of minor contacts and taken the race win in my last race. It needs more minor collision warning that can accumulate to a full penalty.


I starting to get why Race C is a lot more popular, the number of laps, tyre/fuel strategy means people are lot less desperate and cleaner. By lap 1 in Race B, if you aren't sniffing the leader's exhaust, you ain't winning unless they screw up massively. Or you are 3 seconds faster per lap. There is also a lot more "to lose" if you mess up as the next race is ages away in comparison, like you are more bitter about the move that went awry after you invested 20 minutes versus 8 minutes.
 
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GTS at one point was much closer to real racing, when the penalties were stricter.
When contact meant sr down.
To me the more contact you allow the more of an arcade game it becomes, given that there is no damage in dailies.

For me personally, I like the quick sprint daily format. Ok I’m not aware of a real life GT3 4 laps at Dragon Trail Seaside-or Spa. So what? I don’t care about that.
But it’s just what I am looking for in a simcade title. In that sense it’s better than a
long seriously boring affair needlessly running many laps pretty much alone-like many real life events. Then finally you draw closer to a car, and maybe carefully overtake it. Wow Neat
For me a sprint race online is the way to go 5-20 minutes long is the sweet spot. GTS has that.
But when you allow too much contact it’s arcade. It’s not fun to shove someone off and pass without any negative effect or penalty or rating down.
It’s worse to have that done to you, and see yourself not only get bullied but also lose to the cheater who rammed you.
Its infuriating!
They demean you, disrespect you by ramming by, get no pen, finish ahead of you, next race they are back.
That’s when it’s pointless.
Anyone whose been on the board a while knows how adamantly I supported the penalty’s system when it was stricter!
Why? Because, in the 99 lobbies, you might get a bad egg here or there, but they wouldn’t be there long due to the system.
Thusly (and I’m talking I dunno how long ago-2 years?)
So you could accept getting stuffed and slyly feel superior in a way because the other player lost rank-and lost the ability to match into the 99 lobby.

Again real racing you fear damage to car, yourself, competitors, spectators, etc etc
Online you need to fear ratings system.
The hard parts just how much.
To me though right now it’s totally arcade.
I can hit multiple guys off track and get a green sr up and crb.
When this system is setup like this it’s just stupid. Pixels hitting pixels tbh it may as well be pong.
Yeah it’s hard to strike a balance, of strict vs like now where you can ram anyone anywhere.

The concept is players that are fair and trying to be fair AT ONE TIME IN THE PAST were able to be matched in game, and more people played.
Now, when a fair player does a few entries and witnesses the chaos and arcade behavior-the thought and desire to continue is gone, what’s the point of trying to be skillful if no one else is going to bother?
Where’s the game in it? The racing?
I don’t buy that “rubbing is racing” online.
I bought into the whole sportsmanship Motorsport is a non contact sport ideal.
That’s the best way to make online.
Soon as you start allowing more ramming more ramming will commence, then you got Pong.
Imo online racing shouldn’t seek to be 1-1 same as real.
Imo it needs to recognize its online racing and do whatever is necessary to facilitate a fun experience that’s fair to all.
The more contact you allow the further you get from fair and the more players leave.
I for one would enter much more if I knew that I could do so, whatever my pace, and not have to worry too much about getting hit.
Like FIA. I’m not entering it now, not worth it to me to bother practicing. Not like this.
There’s tons of awesome fair drivers who would populate great lobbies if they had any confidence at all in a pen system to work.
Regardless of anything else any physics or etc.

Jmo

The system needs to not penalize small rubs, but cars off track and into walls, other cars, big slides outta control forcing others to avoid etc etc etc those things need consequences.
Without rules it’s chaos
 
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I thought I’d take the time to learn Fuji this week as it’s one of my weaker tracks to race and just do some hot laps. Then, if I felt I had a handle on things, then I’d jump into a race or two. Only problem is that I am terrible at this track. I can’t get any flow past the Dunlop Corner (turn 10). The track guides I’ve watched offer good advice, but I can’t translate it to the track. More practice is going to help obviously, so back to the grind tomorrow and we’ll see what happens.
 
Stilva
I thought I’d take the time to learn Fuji this week as it’s one of my weaker tracks to race and just do some hot laps. Then, if I felt I had a handle on things, then I’d jump into a race or two. Only problem is that I am terrible at this track. I can’t get any flow past the Dunlop Corner (turn 10). The track guides I’ve watched offer good advice, but I can’t translate it to the track. More practice is going to help obviously, so back to the grind tomorrow and we’ll see what happens.
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I think is because past Dunlop the feel of the circuit is very different, you driven half the lap of sweeping fast corners and hard braking zone and thrusted into a slow technical section that seemingly don't let you out the foot down. Chicanes are jarring as it is but this feels like a chicane that go for a third of the lap.
 
A week for the dailies feels about right. Races with the Nordschleife are my favored combo and by the end of the week I am done and somewhat satisfied. I decided to do an "accounting". I have raced in four weeks of dailies that involved the Ring either via the Nordschleife or N24. In total, I have completed 59 races. Now I will count the wins, Ok, wait for it, using fingers, onto toes, carry the 2... yep, got it... the grand total is 0! Freaking zero, ziltch, nada!

But really, it is all about the participation, right? :irked: Wins don't matter. :nervous: It is all OK. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
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MarkosC21
I was having some great fun yesterday in Race B. Nice battles, nice overtakes

Fuji - what a track! But that final section though :irked: I need to watch some track guides, cause at the moment I can only achieve a 1:47:low (quali) in the Ferrari 458
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I am a newb but I love Fuji. The last two turns are trouble because (1)they require very smooth turns and (2) both turns are blind. You have to smoothly track to a place you can't yet see....lol

For the very last turn on to the straightaway (16), You can use the qualifying time section to practice it. You can get about 20 runs at it in 5-10 mins if you want. Just get past turn 16 and then pause and hit retry and do it again and again. For me I just head for the orange cone and brake then turn when the orange on the right rail disappears. Others head left of the orange cone but that sweeping line does not feel good for me. Also, I feel more vulnerable to a T-bone entering the straight.

Anyway, because it is a blind turn, the only way I could get a feel was to just rehearse what it felt like when I hit it good. That is, what does the combo of braking %, steering and then acceleration feel like when you nail it. Mostly, what does it feel like with my steering when I get it right, because when you do you can accelerate much sooner and safer.

Turn 15 is similar but a left turn on a smaller scale. The problem again, imo, is that you are turning back blind and trying to get 2 wheels on the curb, a curb you can't yet see when you start your turn back. This is harder to practice obv because it is deep into the lap.

My guess is that with both turns 15 and 16 is that some people are not patient enough and think they are going too slow, when actually running both turns smoothly will gain you lots of time... but I guess that could be said for all turns...lol
 
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Its just annoying how much wasted time there is in that 20 minutes, most races are no more than 4-6 minutes, when they could easily be almost twice as long. When I play this game for that 1 or 2(if im lucky) hours of free time I might have in a day. I wanna pack as much racing as humanly possible into as short a time frame as I can.
I dont understand why Pd just quit trying after the first year and just lets the secretary call in the combos and rule sets. When it should be some who cares and has passion for cars.
Also why no suped up cars in the combos, its always slow cars, even tuned down spec cars or fwd push boxes. Never anything interesting...
I get they're concentrated on GT7, but just putting zero effort into the one part of the game that should be keeping people hooked & wanting to come back, is mind boggling and doesnt bode well on my confidence that ps5/gt7 will be a must buy.
 
newb1017
I am a newb but I love Fuji. The last two turns are trouble because (1)they require very smooth turns and (2) both turns are blind. You have to smoothly track to a place you can't yet see....lol

For the very last turn on to the straightaway (16), You can use the qualifying time section to practice it. You can get about 20 runs at it in 5-10 mins if you want. Just get past turn 16 and then pause and hit retry and do it again and again. For me I just head for the orange cone and brake then turn when the orange on the right rail disappears. Others head left of the orange cone but that sweeping line does not feel good for me. Also, I feel more vulnerable to a T-bone entering the straight.

Anyway, because it is a blind turn, the only way I could get a feel was to just rehearse what it felt like when I hit it good. That is, what does the combo of braking %, steering and then acceleration feel like when you nail it. Mostly, what does it feel like with my steering when I get it right, because when you do you can accelerate much sooner and safer.

Turn 15 is similar but a left turn on a smaller scale. The problem again, imo, is that you are turning back blind and trying to get 2 wheels on the curb, a curb you can't yet see when you start your turn back. This is harder to practice obv because it is deep into the lap.

My guess is that with both turns 15 and 16 is that some people are not patient enough and think they are going too slow, when actually running both turns smoothly will gain you lots of time... but I guess that could be said for all turns...lol
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On turns 13, 15 and 16 I tend to go deep and then take a sharp turn trying to hit the apex. I don't know if this is the quickest way to take those turns, it just feels more natural to my driving style. On the other hand, this approach is very poor defending-wise, so I usually let these turns go with as little battle as possible
 
newb1017
Turn 15 is similar but a left turn on a smaller scale. The problem again, imo, is that you are turning back blind and trying to get 2 wheels on the curb, a curb you can't yet see when you start your turn back. This is harder to practice obv because it is deep into the lap.

My guess is that with both turns 15 and 16 is that some people are not patient enough and think they are going too slow, when actually running both turns smoothly will gain you lots of time... but I guess that could be said for all turns...lol
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It is very easy to practice. Circuit Experience. The penultimate module for Fuji would include both GR Supra (Netz) and Panasonic so you can practice the lines through both to your hearts content. You may be in a different car but the technique is the same. The game will guide you through the corners both in the bottom banner and a video.
 
NosOsH
Its just annoying how much wasted time there is in that 20 minutes, most races are no more than 4-6 minutes, when they could easily be almost twice as long. When I play this game for that 1 or 2(if im lucky) hours of free time I might have in a day. I wanna pack as much racing as humanly possible into as short a time frame as I can.
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100% this. By the time you get through the results screens etc and back into the next race, there is 7-8min on the clock for this weeks race A. I don't mind that at the start of the week to do a few laps to improve my Q time, but it gets tedious later in the week. A 6-7 lap race would be ideal, and skip a slot for the qualifying if you want..

I do like race A this week. I've never raced at Dragon Trail Gardens before, but I quite like the track and already have my quali time down to a 1:56.5. I did a slipstream assisted 1:56.1 yesterday in a race and aim to get my quali time into the 1:55s by the end of the week. The aliens that are doing mid 1:54s blow my mind.
 
O604
I think they were talking about how there's no real life races that are that short. A 4 lap race in real life? Fans wouldn't have time to finish a beer. :D
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Nor would any driver worth a crap want to engage in such a race. IRL you'd have maybe one or two opportunities to pass before it was over (big MAYBE), especially IRL as you wouldn't risk contact with another car, so any grid of competent drivers, with tires that don't wear, very good BoP amongst the cars, and only four laps over 7 minutes of racing... means the finishing order would be the qualifying/grid order. Not a race. So to say Dailies are simulations and not an arcade game, doesn't work for me. The only reason it works as a game is the relative lack of consequences by being more aggressive in GT Sport than any respectable driver might IRL. To a point, though... and that's where so much of the rub is, when it comes to the penalty system and 'looking bad' in GT Sport.

A penalty system that is harsher on any contact at all, for races that are 30 min or more in length with more aggressive tire multipliers, etc., would make sense. But to completely prohibit contact in 7 minute Daily Race A and B's... not viable. That said, as agreed above, there is still some work to do to improve the algorithm. Being able to complete bulldog a guy from inside the apex to take a position should not be accepted, either.
 
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