Dear Polyphony part II: Bring law and order to online races!

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Leonidae

Leonidae

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I myself don't have PS3 nor GT5P yet, but I'm not only worried but greatly disturbed by the fact that judging from the increasing amount of complaints about the online mode, it's completely horrid experience. Rear-ending, crashing into others, taking shortcuts etc despite the penalty system.. it's destruction derby out there!

Please, Polyphony Digital: Come up with penalty system that actually gathers up driver data about penalties, sums them up in their profile and places him/her into race where others are like him/her, leaving the clean racers to have their own higher quality races and thus improving the quality of the experience. Some people whom I know have tried the GT5P online, and they were very disappointed at the utter lack of order on the track.
 
A cumulative +/- system for racers would be a great idea, and I think we'll see lots of testing and tweaking of the online racing from now until GT5:Full comes out. At the moment, GT5P online is a semi-featured mess of arcade-style racing and dominance by a handful of models... so things can only get better, right? ;)
 
once the game becomes established, this will really become a non-issue, as natural selection will take its course. Dont sweat it.
 
Omologato
once the game becomes established, this will really become a non-issue, as natural selection will take its course. Dont sweat it.
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That is what I am hoping. I can think of two solutions:

aka Ridge Racer 7 style; give the host the power to boot people from the room, plus have the ability to mark racers, so the host can remove a known troublemaker before they can get on the grid

aka Warhawk (teamkill) style; ram x cars and get an auto-boot from the room, or an auto disqualification from that race

I guess most of us will ultimately race in two modes; private rooms with friends and/or for competitions, and then open rooms for some practise and chilling. :)
 
NO, please don't do that, I have had lots of penalties for being rear-ended or side crashed. I don't want to get a bad name because some f$@%#ing kid or idiot likes to crash into me! If you want to use something like that I'll stop playing online until a 100% foolproof penalty system is implemented.
 
LFS has a system where if you want someone booted, you vote to have them kicked off, then if the majority agree, out they go. The number of times people get booted vs complete a race could help with the running total of 'points' to judge people by.

Obviously you could get people ganging up and booting off random users, but then, you wouldn't want to play with children like that anyway.

Some running total system is definitely needed (and private rooms of course...)
 
PD should also give us complete driving/racing stats for each player. As detailed as Warhawk somehow would be awesome.
 
letdown427
LFS has a system where if you want someone booted, you vote to have them kicked off, then if the majority agree, out they go. The number of times people get booted vs complete a race could help with the running total of 'points' to judge people by.

Obviously you could get people ganging up and booting off random users, but then, you wouldn't want to play with children like that anyway.

Some running total system is definitely needed (and private rooms of course...)
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Completely agree with this. It's best for us to be able to judge other drivers. If drivers fall below a certain standard they should start from the back of the grid every time or, even better, in their own game.
 
Mr P510
PD should also give us complete driving/racing stats for each player. As detailed as Warhawk somehow would be awesome.
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No, no, no. Its a fair idea. but I don't want to have to worry about keeping a clean record. I.e. as many wins as possible without ruining my 'score' with lower placed finish.
I'm a bit too competitive for my own good :guilty:

If we want scores, we should have our own leagues on these forums. In my opinion.
 
As stated earlier, the balance of the rules are (hopefully) improving. And this won't be a huge issue when private rooms are available.
 
JackM
No, no, no. Its a fair idea. but I don't want to have to worry about keeping a clean record. I.e. as many wins as possible without ruining my 'score' with lower placed finish.
I'm a bit too competitive for my own good :guilty:

If we want scores, we should have our own leagues on these forums. In my opinion.
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That I can not agree 1 bit with.. We need an open ladder with all stats. Wins / Losses / Quitting and general hamfistedness out in the open.

If a player quits before the race is over to not finish in a lower place, this should definitely be recorded - and on display..
 
Its easy make all cars ghost cars so there can be no nudging or crashing. It makes it less real but all of us who love to race and compete on a level playing field can race without cheaters wrecking your lap times. Or just a ghost racing series? it can run alongside all the other rooms
 
Leonidae
I myself don't have PS3 nor GT5P yet, but I'm not only worried but greatly disturbed by the fact that judging from the increasing amount of complaints about the online mode, it's completely horrid experience. Rear-ending, crashing into others, taking shortcuts etc despite the penalty system.. it's destruction derby out there!
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LOL
You are making this thread on speculation, on what others have complained about. There's usually more complaints then there are praises. More people like to share their complaints. More people will deny their driving had anything to do with it and would rather blame the game. It's an online game, with human drivers. What do you expect. Play the game for yourself first.

I wish those that complained would post videos to prove it. The videos would show how they are driving too.

Have you ever been on the highway and see slow drivers clog up the fast lane? When they do, they can cause trouble for people wanting to use that fast lane, sometimes accidents. If you learn to avoid this, you can get out of that situation.
Know your surroundings when you play online. It's simple, if you can't keep up with the pack move aside, if you brake early, be aware of those behind you. Learn to drive.

90 percent of the time when an incident does happen, that person stops and waits for me to get out of the sand trap and pick up where we left off. That's an Honor system that is unspoken, and I do the same when I unintentionally hit them.

Don't get me wrong, there are idiots that show up sometimes. It's obvious when you see them in the game. It's not so important to get the pole position right away...take your time. It's not a timed race. If I see an idiot driving and ramming, slow down, wait for him to spin out, and then take the quick pass. He shouldn't be able to get near you again. Avoid them. That's the best tip.
 
tris10g
Its easy make all cars ghost cars so there can be no nudging or crashing. It makes it less real but all of us who love to race and compete on a level playing field can race without cheaters wrecking your lap times. Or just a ghost racing series? it can run alongside all the other rooms
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Doesn't that really just end up as a time trial though?

The exciting bit in racing is that you have to take corners differently, out brake, take different lines, slipstream etc etc to get past people, and do so without causing an accident. This would be even more exciting once / if damage is implemented.

"Is the extra few thousand and the kudos for 1st place really worth risking having to repair the side of my car if he shuts the door on me" etc.

It might be an interesting ability to ghost race people, especially for seeing where you lose time, but for racing, I think you need the opponents there.



EDIT:

Following on from Breaker, when you're driving, and racing, you'll do much better if you just assume everyone else is utterly incompetent, and could do something stupid at any time. Take nothing for granted. This is especially true online, where there are no consequences at the moment.

At least once we have private rooms (this must the 5th time I've said private rooms today... Oh how we need them) you'll get a nice bunch of courteous defensive drivers who're out to have a good clean race (and a free run to muck about in probably 👍 )
 
Personally I agree with letdown427 completely, taking out the collisions would take out a huge part of the depth in online races. I've only had maybe 30 races online so far, and surely there's been some idiots, who ONLY want to crash into others, but I'd say the number of them seems a bit exaggerated here on the forums, at least to my experience. Let's not forget that contact does and is even expected to happen, but there's a huge difference with cleanly blocking someone from overtaking you or cutting them off from the inside when they brake too late in the corner, compared to just blindly ramming people off the track. I 100% agree with penalizing the latter harshly, but I don't agree the former should be penalized.

What really ticks me off and really shows the difficulty of creating a fair penalty system is what's happened to me on more than one occasion. I'm breaking hard into a tight corner (quite often turn 3 to the right on HSR), when someone rams me from behind and off the track, and I get a penalty. Sweet.
 
letdown427
Doesn't that really just end up as a time trial though?

The exciting bit in racing is that you have to take corners differently, out brake, take different lines, slipstream etc etc to get past people, and do so without causing an accident. This would be even more exciting once / if damage is implemented.

"Is the extra few thousand and the kudos for 1st place really worth risking having to repair the side of my car if he shuts the door on me" etc.

It might be an interesting ability to ghost race people, especially for seeing where you lose time, but for racing, I think you need the opponents there.

: )
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Yea, any suggestion for all ghost race simply defeats the purpose of racing against others. I agree with the points you've made.

That extra second to pass some driver in front of you immediatly when you are on your pace and he is slower is not worth it. If you can't do it safely, don't do it. You'll stay in pole position, if not first at least second place if you drive smart. Too many people have this mindset that they need to drive their time trial pace and line out there. It's not time trials. It's racing against other drivers where you have to stradegize where you overtake, how you slipstream, change up your line and out brake, out smart, or defend your position. That's what racing against ghost cars doesn't deliver. Lets not ask for that.

Plan it out. Take your time and wait for the safe spot to pass someone to avoid any grief from racing wheel to wheel with someone you suspect will ram you.

Like letdown427 said, "Is the extra few thousand and the kudos for 1st place really worth risking having to repair the side of my car if he shuts the door on me" etc.

even though there is no damage, you will end up in the sand pits. Is it worth it?
You can still finish top, even if it's not first place. Enjoy it and don't drive it like it's your time trial and people are suppose to respect or know and agree with your line. Play with the mindset that other drivers will not respect your line and be cautious and patient.
 
I'll ask if Greycap can come up with some evidence. before that, I'd hold my LOL's, BO..
 
Hubbe
As stated earlier, the balance of the rules are (hopefully) improving. And this won't be a huge issue when private rooms are available.
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Won't private rooms only benefit those with lots of online friends? Being very new to the PS3 world I don't have online friends and my real friends aren't that interested in gaming. I guess that means that i'll just have to race against idiots and kids. :grumpy:
 
Leonidae
I'll ask if Greycap can come up with some evidence. before that, I'd hold my LOL's, BO..
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Greycap didn't start this thread, but sure why not. Post the incident of one guy driving and have that represent how the expeirence will be for everyone else.
You can't take one indicent and say that's what online is all about.

I can provide evidence of online racing where you just take your time you can avoid it.

If the stove is hot, why put your hand on it?
If there are idiots driving in the game, why drive near them?
 
stooo00
Won't private rooms only benefit those with lots of online friends? Being very new to the PS3 world I don't have online friends and my real friends aren't that interested in gaming. I guess that means that i'll just have to race against idiots and kids. :grumpy:
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I think that's where GTP comes in 👍
 
BreakerOhio
Greycap didn't start this thread, but sure why not. Post the incident of one guy driving and have that represent how the expeirence will be for everyone else.
You can't take one indicent and say that's what online is all about.
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stop putting words into my mouth, wise guy.

I can provide evidence of online racing where you just take your time you can avoid it.
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Point of racing isn't waiting behind some troublemaker until he crashes into barrier or someone else, or is it? Point of racing is being fast, and you can not enjoy and put up your best performance when you have to evade someone who is trying his best to crash into you, unless PD adds a game form called "trade paint" or "tag".. in which case you could as well play NFS.

If the stove is hot, why put your hand on it?
If there are idiots driving in the game, why drive near them?
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because closing your eyes from the problem isn't a solution. it'll still be there when you open them again.
 
I haven't had any problems when racing in the expert events. I've found all the races to be fair and square, but, in the other classes it is a whole different ball game.

Most of those people are idiotic, I'd advise anyone to stay well clear of the beginner and intermediate class events.

I do hope Sony patches the game soon after the release of the USA version of Prologue with custom lobby creation.
 
Leonidae
Point of racing isn't waiting behind some troublemaker until he crashes into barrier or someone else, or is it? Point of racing is being fast, and you can not enjoy and put up your best performance when you have to evade someone who is trying his best to crash into you, unless PD adds a game form called "trade paint" or "tag".. in which case you could as well play NFS.



because closing your eyes from the problem isn't a solution. it'll still be there when you open them again.
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You're right that you can't put on your best performance when you have to evade someone. Try to include the measurement of your performance to require evading and it may be more satisfying when you do evade someone.

The point of racing shouldn't be to wait, but we have to deal with it.

In everything we do, we all want to win, we want success in life...just like racing. We all want to be winners.

But we can't always win the race outright, sometimes you have to lose some races, evade idiots. There are other variables out there. We have to dodge adversity because there are people out there that intentionally get in our ways to slow us down. Ignore the idiots online racing, avoid them, drive around them or wait. That's the best solution. We can't control them, they have game too and will be on the track too, but we can avoid them if we see them.

You don't go diving into a mess. That idiot on the road you see crashing into people will spin out soon. My point is, be aware of that. If you are on pace to collide with that mess, slow down.

Don't go into that mess unless you know you can slip through and escape it. Being patient and timing is important to not get yourself into a mess with other cars.

Patience is important to winning a race.

Point of racing is about winning, getting top pole position, which comes from speed of course, but it's not the same as being the fastest in time trail.
 
Whistle Snap
I haven't had any problems when racing in the expert events. I've found all the races to be fair and square, but, in the other classes it is a whole different ball game.

Most of those people are idiotic, I'd advise anyone to stay well clear of the beginner and intermediate class events.

I do hope Sony patches the game soon after the release of the USA version of Prologue with custom lobby creation.
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Ditto.
 
Hi to all,
i think too that the rammers aren't a real problem, also the collision mode and penalty system improved tremendously since spec2 imo.
only thing that annoys me most are the people quitting as the host only because they know they can't get 1st place... whats up with this once we have endurance races ? i fail to understand why there aren't dedicated servers!? At least there should be a option to chose wether you wanna play with the disconnectors or NOT
just my 2 cents, hope its not off-topic
cheerz
 
Theres a VERY simple way to make the online races cleaner, and one which has already been promised by PD to be released as a patch for GT5p! Voice Coms! It's that simple! You batter into someone now and theres no swearing back at you, no warnings to other drivers to be wary of you, no condeming by other racers! If you clip someone accidentaly or are shunted into somebody, theres no way you can apologise If your passing someone on the inside theres no way to tell them what your doing.......Total anominity and every accident s seen as deliberate. people get anoyed and then start retaliating.....soon it is just demolition derby! Add voice coms then you then need to awnser for your actions, if it's a race accident then an imideate apology defuses the situation imideatly. Bring on the voice coms and my handy book of French swear words LOL
 
Hereward
Theres a VERY simple way to make the online races cleaner, and one which has already been promised by PD to be released as a patch for GT5p! Voice Coms! It's that simple! You batter into someone now and theres no swearing back at you, no warnings to other drivers to be wary of you, no condeming by other racers! If you clip someone accidentaly or are shunted into somebody, theres no way you can apologise If your passing someone on the inside theres no way to tell them what your doing.......Total anominity and every accident s seen as deliberate. people get anoyed and then start retaliating.....soon it is just demolition derby! Add voice coms then you then need to awnser for your actions, if it's a race accident then an imideate apology defuses the situation imideatly. Bring on the voice coms and my handy book of French swear words LOL
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Agree with you, but you should be able to have a clean race without Comms. You dont see real race drivers talking to other cars in real life
 
Lobby and moderators would be a good way to deal with it, or similar voting as in LFS.
 
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