Demo - Too much simulation, not enough game

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jcmc

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jcmc968
Having spent 5 or so frustrating days slipping and sliding around the demo tracks in 2 different but equally hard to master cars, as impressed as I am by many under the bonnet elements of this demo I can't help feeling that this is a very poor marketing move to make this the first broadly available public demo of the game.

With the huge wait and enormous expectation for the game, first sight of it breaking cover was going to be so important for Polyphony & Sony to get strategically right. I think they've made a serious error of judgement.

GT brands itself as the real driving simulator and boy have they gone to town in proving this in the demo. The question is, do most people play with pro-physics - no, it may be real and all but for a great number of people - and GT needs to be a game that pitches itself to the wider masses rather than just a hardcore audience - it's bloody hard work and a pretty frustrating experience. Do race tuned cars slide about at 50mph coming out of a corner on racing tyres like bambi on ice ? They may well do but that reality does not pander to likely perceived expectation that they shouldn't.

A first playable demo should an inclusive thing - about fast, chuckable cars running high speed laps at 60fps on beautiful looking tracks designed to make people go wow. There's some hardcore wow for people admiring the complex physics, but come on, a single lowish speed, slippery car on a bland, non-descript track like Indianapolis. To do any justice to it you need a wheel peripheral which the majority of potential customers don't have. How inclusive and welcoming is that ?

Everyone on this site like myself will buy GT5 anyway, but what about the floating gamers who try out the demo to see it it draws them in. It's one of the least accessible and punishing game demos I have ever played, I think it will turn a lot of people off if they think that is symbolic of the games approach which is a shame.

Of course there is a time and a place for such demos as this one, I just think that time and place should have been later when at least most people would come to it knowing that GT5 will also be fun rather than the bone dry simulation replica that this demo suggests.
 
Not sure how many times I have to say this, so I'll say it again.

This demo is NOT for the every day Joe Schmo. This demo is a hard core, bare bones sample of the new physics, designed to do one thing, and one thing only. Find participants for the next GT Academy. End of story. Sheesh.

Edit: and this belongs in the GT5 time trial section.
 
When I tested this demo, my first impressions after few laps were: 'wth! ...they really are doing marketing-suicide!' :D

I dont know what their real meanings are, but I'm quite sure some teenagers aint waiting final product so much after this time-trial experience. I dont care about that, but in business-wise, I'm amazed about Sony's logic. :)
 
It's not a demo, it's a TT competition to find the fastest most capable drivers to race in real life, of course they're going to make it difficult and as close to a simulation as possible.
 
Edit : Responding to R1600 Turbo


Which bit did you not understand and I'll explain it again with even simpler words.

I KNOW what it is, i KNOW who it is aimed at but there are masses of people who are going to take a look as it is the first time anything GT5 specific has come out in 3 or so years of development. They will make assumptions based around this hardest of hardcore experiences.

And this demo is not what you want to show the mass market if you want to reassure them that GT5 is a game they must buy.

Now you might not agree but repeat it back to me so at least I know you understand.
 
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GT5 will get Prologues more arcadey Standard physics back as an option, dont worry.

Absolutely, but that's the most popular way of playing the game so convention dictates that you lead off your playable marketing campaign with that and follow up with the more niche stuff later to show off your depth.

t's not a demo, it's a TT competition

Do you think this is how the wider market actually sees it ? It's on PSN next to all the other game demos, for most people the labelling is semantics.
 
I'm actually inclined to agree with the OP to a large extent. R1600Turbo is quite right to point out that this is not supposed to be an 'entry level demo', but given that this is the "first taste" of GT5 for anyone who hasn't already bought Prologue, it is somewhat of a baptism of fire.

That said, it is good... very good. Although it is difficult and demands much more concentration than just flinging a car around a track, it isn't that difficult and is very rewarding once you start piecing it together. As such, even for novice, I reckon it's a pretty worthwhile experience.

But I do hope that they might release some other demos that allow us to preview some other aspects of the game - notably the standard physics model, and perhaps a few other driving surfaces/conditions or features (including cars and tracks) that we didn't get in Prologue. But in the meantime, the Time Trial Challenge should give newcomers a taste of how realistic GT5 can be, but at the same time it is useful to point out that GT5 is not always going to be quite as tricky, and hopefully the level of difficulty on display in the Time Trial Challenge is not off-putting to newcomers to the game.
 
JosVerstappen
maybe PD already earned enough money with the previous gt's and are now focussing on simming instead of selling...
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You can never have enough money :D
R1600Turbo
Not sure how many times I have to say this, so I'll say it again.

This demo is NOT for the every day Joe Schmo. This demo is a hard core, bare bones sample of the new physics, designed to do one thing, and one thing only. Find participants for the next GT Academy. End of story. Sheesh.

Edit: and this belongs in the GT5 time trial section.
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We know it is hard, but the post was relating to how this will most likely hurt GT's sales as this is too hard for many potential buyers.
G.T.Ace
GT5 will get Prologues more arcadey Standard physics back as an option, dont worry.
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It doesn't really matter. If you want to make sales then you make the demo easy and inviting. I know they couldn't do that on this demo but hopefully they bring out another one.

Less sales = Less budget for GT6 :(
 
While a disagree with most of your post i do agree on one point, it is a bad marketing move for the mainstream audience for racing games. Releasing the TGS build with damage and standard physics on PSN prior to this GT academy demo would have been a wise move to draw interest.

But like you said, a lot of people will have been put off by the difficulty.
 
DGiant2000
The bit where you said it was a demo 💡

Try learning some manners and not being petulant when people disagree with you.
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I agree with OP, that most of kids who download this 'timetrial competition', takes it as demo.

That's in the end only what matters when it comes ask about GT5 sales. This competition also aint going in every country, but also they can download it, so for them it is quite a much as a demo.
 
jcmc
Dgiant. My comment was aimed at R1600 Turbo's post and not your's.
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Then I apologise for not having any manners myself. Maybe PD should have done there marketing a bit better on this competition then to avoid any of the misinterpretation you speak of.
 
jcmc
I KNOW what it is, i KNOW who it is aimed at but there are masses of people who are going to take a look as it is the first time anything GT5 specific has come out in 3 or so years of development. They will make assumptions based around this hardest of hardcore experiences.
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And they will assume wrong.

owen.c93
We know it is hard, but the post was relating to how this will most likely hurt GT's sales as this is too hard for many potential buyers.
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For every person they lose, they could potentially pick up two or three to replace that person. Moot point.
 
Generally the marketing campaign thus far has been subdued but by the numbers. Playable demos at game shows of good looking fast tracks featuring new and sexy cars, tasters of some of the new features like damage but holding some other big stuff back to be able to make ripples all the way through to release. Screenshots the same, the new Ferrari, the Lambo licence, the sexy stuff.

So this is odd. A multi-car, multiplayer game with a solitary car on track demo - not an especially interesting car either it must be said. And that boring track. And the style of playing which is for a minority of users and of course something you would struggle to do well on anyway with the basic controller.
 
I was actually expecting somekind of 'surprise update, spec IV' for Prologue more than this GT-academy.

Like Kaz said ages ago, there was so much things promised to Prologue, but those never came... that way they should have not share anything else than new physics-model, few cars/tracks and some waited online-features to PSN for those who already have GT5P, and they could also sell rest of those copies which are still lying on stores.

That could have give them much valuable data about things before final D-day.
 
We may well see a proper 'demo' with all these features nearer the time in order to placate the masses.
 
jcmc
So this is odd. A multi-car, multiplayer game with a solitary car on track demo - not an especially interesting car either it must be said. And that boring track. And the style of playing which is for a minority of users and of course something you would struggle to do well on anyway with the basic controller.
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- The participants in GT Academy, who this was made for, will be using the 370Z in their competition. That's why it was picked.

- I happen to think the track is great, and the new physics make it a challenge.

- Struggle with a controller? :sly:

DGiant2000
We may well see a proper 'demo' with all these features nearer the time in order to placate the masses.
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I wouldn't think so.
 
jcmc
GT5 will get Prologues more arcadey Standard physics back as an option, dont worry.

Absolutely, but that's the most popular way of playing the game so convention dictates that you lead off your playable marketing campaign with that and follow up with the more niche stuff later to show off your depth.

t's not a demo, it's a TT competition

Do you think this is how the wider market actually sees it ? It's on PSN next to all the other game demos, for most people the labelling is semantics.
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I dont say youre wrong, but i really couldnt care less.
Im pretty sure there will be another GT5 demo before the release with more options and everyone who is interested in this will download it.
 
jcmc
I KNOW what it is, i KNOW who it is aimed at but there are masses of people who are going to take a look as it is the first time anything GT5 specific has come out in 3 or so years of development. They will make assumptions based around this hardest of hardcore experiences.

And they will assume wrong.

It doesn't matter whether they are right or wrong, if that is the perception they get then their interest will wane and they'll go off and look at any of the other hundreds of racing car demos out there that offer a more flattering experience.


owen.c93
We know it is hard, but the post was relating to how this will most likely hurt GT's sales as this is too hard for many potential buyers.

For every person they lose, they could potentially pick up two or three to replace that person. Moot point.

I'm not sure you understand the notion of what mass market gaming actually means and why developers and publishers have to pander to it.
 
R1600Turbo
Not sure how many times I have to say this, so I'll say it again.

This demo is NOT for the every day Joe Schmo. This demo is a hard core, bare bones sample of the new physics, designed to do one thing, and one thing only. Find participants for the next GT Academy. End of story. Sheesh.

Edit: and this belongs in the GT5 time trial section.
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Actually you're not right, though it's logical. KY said the demo was a preview of GT5. He never stated what you think. This was invented here.
 
DGiant2000
We may well see a proper 'demo' with all these features nearer the time in order to placate the masses.

I wouldn't think so.


I have no idea why you would say that, it's a nailed on certainty they will do this. They have already for games shows, will continue to do so for events like that so making that available to the public is common sense as well as basic marketing sense.

The whole Academy thing is a marketing campaign you do some months post release, as was the case with the first one. Come up with some scenario in order to encourage people to go back to a game they may well be losing interest in. Get some coverage to encourage late adopters to pick it up.
 
Well we can argue all day, point is you think it's one thing, I think it's another and so does every other person on here. The only people that know the real answer to that is PD, so everything else is just pure speculation.

jcmc
I have no idea why you would say that, it's a nailed on certainty they will do this. They have already for games shows, will continue to do so for events like that so making that available to the public is common sense as well as basic marketing sense.
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99% sure that isn't going to happen.
 
PD is still trying hard to hide all new things of GT5 as they can. If they gave us demo with new physics, EVO, Integra, F458 and BMW M3 E30 on Spa Francorchamps, we could maybe know if new physics is any good. But this 370Z / Indy emptiness is almost worthless and although being fan of simulator idea to the bone, it really scared me in term of control on the limit, lack of important force feedback and not convincing tyre physics where racing slicks are more user friendly than road tyres.
 

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