DFGT issues?

[Morgoth_666]

You're probably less likely to roll the car and die in Gran Turismo than in your real car, but you probably aren't very likely to make it very far around the corner in either case.

Still, I am fairly certain that my car's steering wheel will turn just as far at 50 km/h as it will at 0, just like my game wheel. But I'm not going to try it. There's a good chance that it will turn just as far at 220 km/h, but I'm not going to turn it even as far as I will at 100 - let alone 50 or 0 - to find out.

 

[NSXDriver]

most cars will break traction and slide rather than roll in real life, unless you drive something with a lot of weight above the tires

 

[BHRxRacer]

Don't do that! That is basically saying 'Kill me and my car'

I did say "without flipping over or spinning out. "

What possible reason would I have for doing that?

Lol because you said that "I have no idea what that means...lol" and he is trying to show you what it means but you are going to do it not him. All I'm saying is that's suicidal.

Yes.

You're probably less likely to roll the car and die in Gran Turismo than in your real car, but you probably aren't very likely to make it very far around the corner in either case.

Still, I am fairly certain that my car's steering wheel will turn just as far at 50 km/h as it will at 0, just like my game wheel. But I'm not going to try it. There's a good chance that it will turn just as far at 220 km/h, but I'm not going to turn it even as far as I will at 100 - let alone 50 or 0 - to find out.

You can't roll the car in GT but that's not the point. The point is, you're wrong. You can't get as many turns at that speed as you would at 0.

most cars will break traction and slide rather than roll in real life, unless you drive something with a lot of weight above the tires

"without flipping over or spinning out"

 

[sinbad]

Of course you can. You won't spin or roll over, you'll just go way past the slip angle of the front tyres and have hideous understeer.

 

[eran0004]

Just practice. A lot. After a few weeks you will get it. And 1 is way too low for FFB. I would even call 7 too low.

Yep, I find force feedback at 10 the most useful, it tells me the most about the road. It's a lot easier (in my experience) to correct a mistake at 10 than at 5, and even more than at 1.

And practice makes perfect. When I first got my DFGT I thought it was broken because it was impossible to drive with it. Then I realized that I would have to totally change my driving style and suddently we became best friends*.

(* Except from when driving on dirt and snow, the force feedback makes it awful every time.)


Regarding simulation mode, I believe that is for less advanced wheels. A DFGT or above is probably better than any other wheel on simulation mode. Don't quote me on that though...

 

[CDJW]

Personally, I don't understand how people manage to win with a controller. I'm all over the place with them in a racing game unless it's just an arcade racer. The DFGT is a great wheel for the price and my favorite that I've owned so far. It has a great feel for the road and is very subtle & natural feeling compared to other wheels in it's range.

 

[Morgoth_666]

I did say "without flipping over or spinning out. "



Yes.


You can't roll the car in GT but that's not the point. The point is, you're wrong. You can't get as many turns at that speed as you would at 0.


"without flipping over or spinning out"

And the same is true in GT5. You have no need to turn the wheel much if any farther than a real one. Maybe a little, I'd have to intentionally compare the two to be sure. And you probably won't flip over or spin out in GT5 either unless you are driving a car that likes to roll or gets massive oversteer. You'll just slide with no grip on the front tires. It might be possible to get a car that does tend to roll or spin to skip past that point and just understeer if you turn the wheel fast enough, but I've never seen a reason to try.

I think I did overlook the "without flipping over or spinning out" bit in your original message, but the way it was worded as "how many turns you can get out of the wheel" sounded a bit weird to me. I can get just as many turns out of the wheel at any speed, I just won't turn it as far as I can at speed because there is no reason to use that much other than to abuse the front tires at best and at worst to cause an accident. Just like in GT5.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Personally, I don't understand how people manage to win with a controller. I'm all over the place with them in a racing game unless it's just an arcade racer. The DFGT is a great wheel for the price and my favorite that I've owned so far. It has a great feel for the road and is very subtle & natural feeling compared to other wheels in it's range.

I golded everything with the controller without breaking a sweat. Only challenges were the 8C special event and the X1 events

Of course you can. You won't spin or roll over, you'll just go way past the slip angle of the front tyres and have hideous understeer.

Say that to Johnny

And the same is true in GT5. You have no need to turn the wheel much if any farther than a real one. Maybe a little, I'd have to intentionally compare the two to be sure. And you probably won't flip over or spin out in GT5 either unless you are driving a car that likes to roll or gets massive oversteer. You'll just slide with no grip on the front tires. It might be possible to get a car that does tend to roll or spin to skip past that point and just understeer if you turn the wheel fast enough, but I've never seen a reason to try.

I think I did overlook the "without flipping over or spinning out" bit in your original message, but the way it was worded as "how many turns you can get out of the wheel" sounded a bit weird to me. I can get just as many turns out of the wheel at any speed, I just won't turn it as far as I can at speed because there is no reason to use that much other than to abuse the front tires at best and at worst to cause an accident. Just like in GT5.

What car do you drive in real life? I'm pretty sure you'll roll or spin before you reach the lock. Granted you're on steroids, too.

 

[sinbad]

I golded everything with the controller without breaking a sweat. Only challenges were the 8C special event and the X1 events

Say that to Johnny

What car do you drive in real life? I'm pretty sure you'll roll or spin before you reach the lock. Granted you're on steroids, too.

"Roll or spin". Why?
Those things each happen because a very specific series of events takes place.
You're talking like understeer does not exist.

For a "spin" to occur, you first need an over rotation.
For an even less likely roll to happen, you need a rapid direction change without the slip which occurs when a "spin" happens.

When you consider that by rapidly turning the wheel beyond the point that gives optimum front turning grip you are actually reducing the turning grip, how are you going to be more likely to spin or roll than you would be in normal cornering?

Steering tyres don't have infinite grip. You would understeer. Fact.

Tell that to Andrew or something.

 

[MSTER232]

I decided to re-visit GT5 after years but this time, I got a wheel.

1) I tried to gold the eiger nordwand special event and I'm no where near my DS3 times. I'm just as fast in other tracks/cars but whenever I encounter a hairpin I get frustrated because I have to rotate the damn wheel at least twice to get the same angle I'd normally get just by flicking the analog stick. Is there a fix for that?
2) does the FFB motor wear out after a while?
3) I seem to get better feedback from the DS3 via vibration than the DFGT when it comes to wheelspin. I could be turning normally with the DFGT and all of a sudden I find myself sideways. With the DS3 it starts to shake a little right before it slips allowing me to correct. Fix?

Cheers

1.) For going around tight hairpins, then there is no fix for having to turn the wheel a lot.
2.) I would imagine that everything wears down after a while, but this would be entirely dependent on how long you've had your DFGT for and how often you use it.
3.) Try unplugging your wheel for a while and don't use it. I find that if I leave the wheel for a while, the FFB will become a little bit stronger without having to change the settings. If it's still too weak for you, then try increasing the FFB setting but considering you asked about the FFB motor wearing down, the more you fight your wheel and the higher you set the FFB to, the more likely your FFB motor is going to wear out quicker.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yep, I find force feedback at 10 the most useful, it tells me the most about the road. It's a lot easier (in my experience) to correct a mistake at 10 than at 5, and even more than at 1.

And practice makes perfect. When I first got my DFGT I thought it was broken because it was impossible to drive with it. Then I realized that I would have to totally change my driving style and suddently we became best friends*.

(* Except from when driving on dirt and snow, the force feedback makes it awful every time.)


Regarding simulation mode, I believe that is for less advanced wheels. A DFGT or above is probably better than any other wheel on simulation mode. Don't quote me on that though...

Sorry I quoted you...lol. Don't get me wrong the DFGT was a good wheel for me for the last couple of years but it's only a budget wheel. It's a giant leap up from a pad and a great place to start, but my G27 is light years ahead in every way and all the other high end wheels are as well.

And it does require practice. Unlike with the DS3 where you can do a lot of cornering just by flipping the stick around and all movements/reactions are near instantaneous, with a wheel, small movements of just a few degrees here and there affect the handling and cornering ability of the car. There's also a delay from the thought process of "turn" because unlike with a DS3 where you can turn instantly, you have to actually physically turn the wheel, which takes time. It takes time to press the brake and gas. You have to account for that time delay or you lose time on the track, a lot of time in fact, which is one of the big reasons guys are usually much slower in the initial stages of the DS3>Wheels transition.

 

[TwistyDrift]

Sorry I quoted you...lol. Don't get me wrong the DFGT was a good wheel for me for the last couple of years but it's only a budget wheel. It's a giant leap up from a pad and a great place to start, but my G27 is light years ahead in every way and all the other high end wheels are as well.

And it does require practice. Unlike with the DS3 where you can do a lot of cornering just by flipping the stick around and all movements/reactions are near instantaneous, with a wheel, small movements of just a few degrees here and there affect the handling and cornering ability of the car. There's also a delay from the thought process of "turn" because unlike with a DS3 where you can turn instantly, you have to actually physically turn the wheel, which takes time. It takes time to press the brake and gas. You have to account for that time delay or you lose time on the track, a lot of time in fact, which is one of the big reasons guys are usually much slower in the initial stages of the DS3>Wheels transition.

True with wheel you need A LOT of practice and a good tune.

 

[BHRxRacer]

"Roll or spin". Why?
Those things each happen because a very specific series of events takes place.
You're talking like understeer does not exist.

For a "spin" to occur, you first need an over rotation.
For an even less likely roll to happen, you need a rapid direction change without the slip which occurs when a "spin" happens.

When you consider that by rapidly turning the wheel beyond the point that gives optimum front turning grip you are actually reducing the turning grip, how are you going to be more likely to spin or roll than you would be in normal cornering?

Steering tyres don't have infinite grip. You would understeer. Fact.

Tell that to Andrew or something.

Who's Andrew?

In a FWD car you'll get understeer briefly and then flip if you continue to turn. Unless your car is really low which is unheard of in modern FWD cars. Most of them are too high and too narrow. As for spinning out, it happens with RWD cars at the right speed. Did I really have to mention the specifics? Bottom line is, you can't get more than 180 degrees in real life if you're driving at 50km/h or more.

 

[BHRxRacer]

1.) For going around tight hairpins, then there is no fix for having to turn the wheel a lot.
2.) I would imagine that everything wears down after a while, but this would be entirely dependent on how long you've had your DFGT for and how often you use it.
3.) Try unplugging your wheel for a while and don't use it. I find that if I leave the wheel for a while, the FFB will become a little bit stronger without having to change the settings. If it's still too weak for you, then try increasing the FFB setting but considering you asked about the FFB motor wearing down, the more you fight your wheel and the higher you set the FFB to, the more likely your FFB motor is going to wear out quicker.

I did notice it's stronger when I restart, but thought it was just me being less tired lol.

=

Accidental double post. Can't delete my own posts?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Who's Andrew?

In a FWD car you'll get understeer briefly and then flip if you continue to turn. Unless your car is really low which is unheard of in modern FWD cars. Most of them are too high and too narrow. As for spinning out, it happens with RWD cars at the right speed. Did I really have to mention the specifics? Bottom line is, you can't get more than 180 degrees in real life if you're driving at 50km/h or more.

What does any of this have to do with the DFGT and GT5?

 

[TwistyDrift]

What does any of this have to do with the DFGT and GT5?

Realistic VS GT5???

 

[sinbad]

Who's Andrew?

In a FWD car you'll get understeer briefly and then flip if you continue to turn. Unless your car is really low which is unheard of in modern FWD cars. Most of them are too high and too narrow. As for spinning out, it happens with RWD cars at the right speed. Did I really have to mention the specifics? Bottom line is, you can't get more than 180 degrees in real life if you're driving at 50km/h or more.

Hahaha wow, sure, whatever you say! I forgot all about the magic extra grip you get if you keep turning the wheel!
Thanks for the entertainment anyway.

I think Andrew knows your friend, Johnny, whoever the hell that is.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Hahaha wow, sure, whatever you say! I forgot all about the magic extra grip you get if you keep turning the wheel!
Thanks for the entertainment anyway.

I think Andrew knows your friend, Johnny, whoever the hell that is.

Of course. Cars understeer and keep all 4 wheels on the ground, always

 

[Johnnypenso]

Realistic VS GT5???

No it's not realistic in many ways, it's a cheap imitation of what it's like to drive a car, so what?

 

[Morgoth_666]

What car do you drive in real life? I'm pretty sure you'll roll or spin before you reach the lock. Granted you're on steroids, too.

I tried to explain what I meant. I tried to tell you that I misread what you were trying to claim(partly from reading too fast, and partly from mistakenly thinking that another post was from you), and that we're not really disagreeing about that. I tried to explain what it was about how you worded what you said that made it read a little confusing to me. I will try one more time.

If you turn the wheels too far for your tires' available grip, you will lose traction, If you have enough traction to go past your vehicle's point of balance, it will start to tip. This is not in dispute. This has nothing to do with how far the wheel will turn. I can turn my wheel roughly 450 degrees in either direction, no matter what the situation with the tires is. If I am understeering or spinning madly I can still turn the wheel just as far. I am not aware of any car with a steering wheel that locks itself to a limited amount of rotation based on it's speed. In fact, I may need that full rotation to counter an extreme slide someday(I actually did need it once many years ago, at around 110km/h). You can still turn the wheel as far as you want, whatever happens with the tires.

The way it was worded is all that caused my confusion as I can still "get as many turns out of the wheel" in any situation, my tires just can't handle what they would be asked to do. The two things are not related. This is how it works in GT5 as well, and is one of the main differences between wheels(which always have the same range of control and a direct connection to the wheels in-game) and controllers(which have an automatic limit on how far they can turn the front wheels depending on how fast you go).

I don't think I can be any more clear about it, so I'll just leave it there and be done with this silliness. The DFGT isn't the best wheel, but it works just fine, and nothing is completely accurate to real life. It takes time to train yourself to adjust to how it works, that's all. You don't need to turn the wheel anywhere near as much as you need to "turn" the controller, because 100% turned on the wheel is always 100% turned on the front wheels in-game, whereas the pad becomes less sensitive at higher speeds.

 

[Gunma36]

I've found useful setting "steering sensitivity" option. I had it set on -1 while trying to tame the X2010 since its reaction are way too fast. Try to set steering sensitivity on 3-4 and you might be able to turn the wheel a lot less in hairpins.