DFP Clutch mod

  • Thread starter Thread starter Convergent
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If you're playing on PC you probably just need to go with a standalone set of pedals, on console tho I don't think it's easily possible, but if you're REALLY determined I'm sure you could find a way.
 
What I did on my DFGT was this:
  • Bought a second hand steering wheel with gas and brake pedals (15 euro)
  • Removed the controller board from the wheel, threw the wheel itself away
  • Opened the pedal box and removed the brake pedal
  • Added the spring of the brake pedal to the gas pedal (double spring) for a better feeling
  • Put the controller board of the wheel in the empty space where the brake pedal was, closed the pedal box
  • Placed the pedal box to the left of my DFGT pedal box
  • Configured my PC games to use the gas pedal of this 'second wheel' (what's left of it ;)) as a clutch
It's running very well, I'm using it for many months now.
 
Gunstar
If you're playing on PC you probably just need to go with a standalone set of pedals, on console tho I don't think it's easily possible, but if you're REALLY determined I'm sure you could find a way.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by standalone?
 
insert coin
What I did on my DFGT was this:
  • Bought a second hand steering wheel with gas and brake pedals (15 euro)
  • Removed the controller board from the wheel, threw the wheel itself away
  • Opened the pedal box and removed the brake pedal
  • Added the spring of the brake pedal to the gas pedal (double spring) for a better feeling
  • Put the controller board of the wheel in the empty space where the brake pedal was, closed the pedal box
  • Placed the pedal box to the left of my DFGT pedal box
  • Configured my PC games to use the gas pedal of this 'second wheel' (what's left of it ;)) as a clutch
It's running very well, I'm using it for many months now.
Click to expand...
May you post a picture of the pedals? :)
 
Any chance you could tell us what platform you're sim racing on? Long story short: If you're racing on a console, there's nothing you can do to mod your DFP and add a clutch. If you're on PC, you can and you have a lot of options on how to achieve it.
 
Coxis
Any chance you could tell us what platform you're sim racing on? Long story short: If you're racing on a console, there's nothing you can do to mod your DFP and add a clutch. If you're on PC, you can and you have a lot of options on how to achieve it.
Click to expand...
PC
 
Convergent
PC
Click to expand...
Buy a set of standalone pedals. Standalone means they're a device on its own, and have their own USB connection.

Here's a list of pedals you could buy:
Clubsport Pedals.
CSR Elite pedals.
T500RS pedals with JBodin adapter and Leo Bodnar cable.
G25/27 pedals with JBodin adapter.
ECCI Pedals (these can connect directly to your DFP and would work with GT6) -- I have these. Not cheap.
Hydraulic pedals like those offered by Michael Main.

There's no need to mod your DFP and there's way more options out there. This is just a quickly put together list.
 
Coxis
Buy a set of standalone pedals. Standalone means they're a device on its own, and have their own USB connection.

Here's a list of pedals you could buy:
Clubsport Pedals.
CSR Elite pedals.
T500RS pedals with JBodin adapter and Leo Bodnar cable.
G25/27 pedals with JBodin adapter.
ECCI Pedals (these can connect directly to your DFP and would work with GT6) -- I have these. Not cheap.
Hydraulic pedals like those offered by Michael Main.

There's no need to mod your DFP and there's way more options out there. This is just a quickly put together list.
Click to expand...
Estimate of the cheapest one here?
 
I bought a pair of G25 pedals about a year ago. Had them wired in to my DFGT and used that for a while.

Then wanted to have a clutch pedal for iracing, and better resolution for the pedals. I think the DFGT is 8-bit where the Bodnar cable is 10-bits. Somewhere I saw the math on how much better the 10-bit would be, but forgot to bookmark it.

So now I just use my G25 pedals as a stand-alone. I didn't think it would make much difference, but in every track I had been to prior to the bodnar cable (In iracing with skip barber) I'm putting up better lap times. Using Ispeed (lap analyzer) I've noticed my braking/throttle is less spikey and more consistent. It is my 3rd season of the skip barber and I might just be getting faster in general.
 
Infinital-NG
Somewhere I saw the math on how much better the 10-bit would be, but forgot to bookmark it.
Click to expand...

Not sure if this is the same as what that math(s) said, but as 8-bit can count up to 256 and 10-bit can count up to 1024, I suppose that means you get 256 different possible steps within the range of the DFGT's pedals and 1024 with the Leo Bodnar cable so basically the total travel of the pedal (i.e. rotation of the potentiometer) is divided up into smaller chunks; as the output goes from around 5V to 0V, with an 8-bit pedal every one of the 256 steps accounts for around 20mV difference in what the potentiometer is giving, with a 10-bit pedal every one of the 1024 steps accounts for about 5mV, meaning that smaller changes in the pedal are detectable with the 10-bit cable.

I'm personally extremely skeptical that anyone can possibly tell the difference even though you get ~4 times more sensitivity, I mean when have you ever used a DFGT and thought 'if only I could be somewhere between 6/256ths and 7/256ths of the brake pedal's travel, maybe I wouldn't have locked up so badly on that corner!' or similar. But I haven't tried them back-to-back so maybe I'm completely wrong.

Just saying, of course, my post is totally irrelevant to the actual topic of which one to recommend to the OP.
 
neema_t
Not sure if this is the same as what that math(s) said, but as 8-bit can count up to 256 and 10-bit can count up to 1024, I suppose that means you get 256 different possible steps within the range of the DFGT's pedals and 1024 with the Leo Bodnar cable so basically the total travel of the pedal (i.e. rotation of the potentiometer) is divided up into smaller chunks; as the output goes from around 5V to 0V, with an 8-bit pedal every one of the 256 steps accounts for around 20mV difference in what the potentiometer is giving, with a 10-bit pedal every one of the 1024 steps accounts for about 5mV, meaning that smaller changes in the pedal are detectable with the 10-bit cable.

I'm personally extremely skeptical that anyone can possibly tell the difference even though you get ~4 times more sensitivity, I mean when have you ever used a DFGT and thought 'if only I could be somewhere between 6/256ths and 7/256ths of the brake pedal's travel, maybe I wouldn't have locked up so badly on that corner!' or similar. But I haven't tried them back-to-back so maybe I'm completely wrong.

Just saying, of course, my post is totally irrelevant to the actual topic of which one to recommend to the OP.
Click to expand...
neema, I think going from 256 to 1024 is noticeable. I remember when I first rewired my ECCI pedals for use with Logitech wheel, I'd use them connected directly to the wheel. When I got my LB cable, I did feel a difference, I could brake and control my acceleration more finely. To me, going from 1024 to anything higher might be a little overkill. There are some boards out there that give you like 4096 steps of resolution or something. It also could be placebo effect -- who knows.
 
Coxis
neema, I think going from 256 to 1024 is noticeable. I remember when I first rewired my ECCI pedals for use with Logitech wheel, I'd use them connected directly to the wheel. When I got my LB cable, I did feel a difference, I could brake and control my acceleration more finely. To me, going from 1024 to anything higher might be a little overkill. There are some boards out there that give you like 4096 steps of resolution or something. It also could be placebo effect -- who knows.
Click to expand...

Ok, I have to admit, I thought the G27's pedal potentiometers were 1:1 with the pedal itself but it turns out they're geared to do somewhere between 270-300 degrees of rotation. That means with a 8-bit ADC you'll have 1.05 to 1.17 degrees of rotation per step, with the 10-bit pedal you have 0.26 to 0.29 degrees per step... That makes a lot more sense! If the pots were 1:1 with the pedal axles (like the Driving Force Pro's pedals, the last set I opened up, were) you'd have something like, what, 40 degrees (which is a guess from my vague memory)? That's 0.156 degrees with the 8-bit ADC and 0.039 degrees with the 10-bit, but at that kind of travel you'd never be able to hold the pedal on any one of the ADC's steps anyway so that's why I thought the extra resolution is a bit of a waste.

So yeah, I take it back. Not that it matters anyway since you can't put the G27's pedal set through a DFGT and keep the clutch pedal anyway, you'd need the 10-bit Bodnar cable for that clutch so this is all academic.

My advice to the OP is to get some G27 pedals and the Bodnar cable. Spring mods or even a load cell swap for the brake are easy to come by and not ridiculously expensive, and they're cheaper and more common if you do ever need spare parts. Though, having said that, you might want to check the availability of spare potentiometers for the other pedal sets before you make a decision; the pots they use in the G27 pedals are hard to find so if they get worn out you're kind of limited in your options beyond buying an entire new set of pedals to get the pots from... If you can find a set that use easy-to-find off-the-shelf parts, even if they're a little more expensive, I'd suggest you get those. I don't know if such a pedal set exists, though.
 
Convergent
May you post a picture of the pedals? :)
Click to expand...
As requested:
IMG_00000044_zps28e7e6bc.jpg

I have glued a foot rest to the base of the clutch pedal for better ergonomics ;)
 
Good job! You know, since you kept the board of the original wheel you could probably also make a button box. :) You should go for it!
 
That's a cool mod, and rather cheap indeed. I have a MOMO racing wheel here and its ffb motor is a bit dodgy... I might do the same. Or at least something similar, like leaving the MOMO intact but under the desk someone without the power plug (pedals will work just the same). Or I might do like you and just buy a second-hand, non ffb wheel for that purpose - it's a great idea.

There is the USB adapter for Logitech pedals, but why would one pay £25 on a simple USB cable is well beyond me.
 
If its the bodnar cable your referring to, not only is it simple plug and play to get the pedals working it gives you 4x the resolution. Stock they have 256 "steps", with a bodnar cable it has 1024 "steps". It lets you be more accurate with your pedal inputs.
 
insert coin
I have thought of that, but I have plenty of buttons on my DFGT.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I almost forgot: the second hand steering wheel also came with an e-brake which I'm still using for rally games.
This one (I removed the shifter since I'm using a TH8RS):
2urqsr6.jpg

So I'm using an original 'one button box' :lol:
 
Coxis
Buy a set of standalone pedals. Standalone means they're a device on its own, and have their own USB connection.

Here's a list of pedals you could buy:
Clubsport Pedals.
CSR Elite pedals.
T500RS pedals with JBodin adapter and Leo Bodnar cable.
G25/27 pedals with JBodin adapter.
ECCI Pedals (these can connect directly to your DFP and would work with GT6) -- I have these. Not cheap.
Hydraulic pedals like those offered by Michael Main.

There's no need to mod your DFP and there's way more options out there. This is just a quickly put together list.
Click to expand...


The question I have is when you run the pedals as stand-alone, do they run through the PC or the wheel? I have bought a thrustmaster T500rs pedal set and want to use it with my DFGT wheel. Can the clutch be used?
 
In my case I'm in fact connecting 2 wheel + pedal sets to the PC, each with its own USB connector. I have removed the wheel and one pedal from the cheap wheel, so one pedal remains of that wheel set.

Maybe this will clarify it a bit:
Wheel 1: Medion (wheel + brake and) gas pedal - USB plug -> PC
Wheel 2: unmodified DFGT + brake and gas pedal - USB plug -> PC
So the PC sees 2 controllers (wheels and pedals).

You could go one step further by removing the wires from the potentiometer of the pedal from wheel 1.
Then connect the potentiometer of the T500 clutch pedal to the wires of wheel 1.
 
Robert Brauer
The question I have is when you run the pedals as stand-alone, do they run through the PC or the wheel? I have bought a thrustmaster T500rs pedal set and want to use it with my DFGT wheel. Can the clutch be used?
Click to expand...

The DFGT (or any other wheel without a clutch) won't ever be able to operate a clutch if the pedals are directly connected to it, so yeah, they run through the PC. By purchasing a J Bodin adapter and a Leo Bodnar adapter, you're turning the pedals into complete standalone devices, with added configurability and higher resolution. Even if you had the T500RS base doing this would be something worth considering. :)
 
Coxis
The DFGT (or any other wheel without a clutch) won't ever be able to operate a clutch if the pedals are directly connected to it, so yeah, they run through the PC. By purchasing a J Bodin adapter and a Leo Bodnar adapter, you're turning the pedals into complete standalone devices, with added configurability and higher resolution. Even if you had the T500RS base doing this would be something worth considering. :)
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks for that information. Is running through those adapters the only way? The reason I ask is that I cut the T500rs modular plug off and fitted an RJ45 (CAT5) plug. Will this work if I just plug this in and configure it that way? Or do the J Bodin and Leo Bodnar adapters have some electronic element in them that is required to run the pedals stand-alone.......?
 
Wheels have USB controllers in them, which transform the button and axes signals into a language the computer can understand. The pedals of commercial wheels aren't designed to be standalone, so they don't have a controller PCB in them. That's why you need the adapters. Plugging them in directly to the computer won't work even if you adapted a USB plug into them.

If you cut off the phone plug from the pedals you'll need to somehow adapt it back in if you want to connect it to the Bodin adapter.
 
Coxis
Wheels have USB controllers in them, which transform the button and axes signals into a language the computer can understand. The pedals of commercial wheels aren't designed to be standalone, so they don't have a controller PCB in them. That's why you need the adapters. Plugging them in directly to the computer won't work even if you adapted a USB plug into them.

If you cut off the phone plug from the pedals you'll need to somehow adapt it back in if you want to connect it to the Bodin adapter.
Click to expand...

Damn, I somehow knew that would end up being a bad idea.....lol Your advice and information is very much appreciated. Thankyou...
 
So just one last thing. Let's say I want to use the T500rs pedals, but only the brake and accel, can I remake the plug to suit the DFGT? Or does it not read the T500rs signals?
 
If the potentiometers have the same ohm value, then yes. According to a forum post elsewhere the DFGT has 10k ohm pots.
Please note: there are linear and logarithmic potentiometers, the DFGT has linear pots. It is very likely the T500 pedal set has linear pots too.
 

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