That GT5 cannot read the RA Menu at all from the G27 could still be something outside the submodule that runs the controller interface... similar to how this was accidentally left active on the DFGT and disabled thus. If extra lines of code were written in to prevent this happening with the DFGT... and then made universal to cover all bases (and peripherals) could this not have affected the G27 in the same manner that some DFGT users are complaining it has affected them?
The problem is the RA menu never worked at all anywhere for G27... it doesn't even bring up the menu... let alone lock you out of making changes. The buttons literally goes dead when you set it to RA menu, but it works fine for every other option that can be set and up until the last patch, no controller config had it limited in any way BUT the G27 and the G27 didn't just have it limited, it wouldn't even bring up the menu.
And again at some point IF such code existed (which it makes no sense that it would have from what we can see) it still would have had to have something in it specifically to affect the G27 only since no other device suffered RA menu nerfing before 1.05. Remember at the same time the G27 simply couldn't bring up the menu, the controller sitting right next to it bring the menu up just fine. That right there tells you the G27 is being singled out to not be able to use the RA menu.
So in short, no that doens't make any sense either.
And: while the four wheel buttons mapped to L2/R2 don't work, are there any other buttons mapped to L2/R2 that do work? If they'd managed to make the nerfing that specific, I'd give them kudos for figuring out how.
The 4 wheel buttons are not necessarily L2/R2, they are 4 specific and different buttons. They could be anything. See you are thinking that every button on the wheel must correspond to a button on the standard controller... it doesn't. While I don't know the exact names, they are quite likely just Button1, Button2, Button3 etc (see that earlier link on USBHID peripheral standards) all the way up to however many buttons their are. No button has to be any sepcific playstation button. For instance the 4 black buttons happen to correspond to the 4 buttons on the DS3 face, but they don't have to, the game dev can choose whether to map the buttons at all, and if mapped, what to default them to. The dev also chooses whether they are forced to that or they can be changed.
So if PD wanted to, the 4 black buttons on the ****er coudl easily be L3, R2, Select, and X or any other combination by default. On the wheel there is no actual "L2" it's just what PD happened to default it to.
In GT5P it was setup so that whatever the top button was mapped to, the lower ones were duplicated to that. It effectively made each side one big button with 3 lumps. This is not because the buttons can't function seperately, it's just because PD basically said "Allow assigning to top button, duplicate assignment to bottom buttons".
What PD has done now is not mapped those buttons in the peripheral map, they are dead to the game and do not respond to anything at all.
So in the chain of communication this is what looks to be happening:
Wheel tells OS I have buttonL1, ButtonL2 and ButtonL3 (3 buttons on the left side) and the OS says "OK I am passing these to software as Input20, Input21 and Inpu22 (numbers are not actual, just representative) and passes access to them off to GT5.
In GT5P PD did as I said above and just limited the use of these buttons to duplicates of Input20. In GT5 they have effectively removed the part that says "duplicate Input20 to Input21 and Input22" and just said "map Input20 default to L2" and stopped. They have removed any mention of Input21 and Input22, and did not make them functional at all.
This is not function specific, these buttons literally work for nothing as do the outide red buttons on the shifter. Again these DID work (so at one point were coded) and that coding has been removed as thhey no longer work for anything.
This was all covered in the OP, if you re read I laid out the details of what works and doesn't and the chain of events that make it pretty indisputable their functionality was taken out, not just accidentally never implimented.
My opinion about the motive still stands: They didn't actually have to destroy anything on the G27 to encourage people to opt up to the T500. They already had non-support of Force Feedback and the H-Gate in GT5P, with no reason to add support in GT5. If they'd wanted to give people encouragement to buy the T500, they could simply not do anything about the situation, with no further reason to do anything at all to convince people that the functional but not fully supported G27 would not give them the same experience in GT5 as the T500.
They didn't HAVE to, but it sure doesn't hurt to and almost certainly helps at least in some cases... I mean look at your own response:
So on top of that $600, you have to pay extra for the shifter?
Now you have decided $600 for the T500 is ridiculously high prices ESPECIALLY since it doesn't even come with any kind of stick shifter (no H gate and not even a sequential stick!).
It's a hard sell right? Some will buy it, but it's a hard sell...
It's made
little easier by the fact taht the closest available competitor is missing some functionality. Not all the buttons work, the FF is apparently not changeable, you can't call up RA menu. None of these are critical deal killers... some people will still make the call "even with the flaws, $300 for a G27 is a better value than $600 for the T500 without even a stick shifter.
But some will say "Screw it, do it and do it right. $600 isnt' THAT much money in the big picture and I don't have to put up with annoying things like not being able to assign every function like wipers and lights and buttons that don't work or having to have a controller around for RA menu"
As I said before, some people openly admitted they were paying $200+ for the SE when the normal game was available for $60 simply becase they were excited about GT5 and now that they finally got the chance to buy it, they were doing it
right.
You and I may not be swayed by such thing, but there are some who will be. Look at it this way, would you NOT want EVERY advanatage you could get while trying to market a $600 wheel against a $300 competitor that commes iwth an Hgate? Surely you would... I would even bring up better quality paint or a better cable management system if it exists on the T500... literally make the check list as long as possible with thing that favor you no matter how small.
NOW think about this... what if the G27 was FULLY functional... I mean every button on the wheel works, every function in GT works, FFB fully tuneable... suddenly the G27 actually has a few legs UP on the T500... more buttons available means you can actually program MORE into the G27 than into the T500 (note the T500 appears to have only 6 face buttons and a Dpad which is a pretty low count).
So when people ask on the forums or of their friends "which should I get? G27 or T500" the answer would then be "Dude! The G27 does EVERYTHING the T500 does, it has MORE buttons so you can program every feature in the game, it COMES with an hgate shifter and it's half the price of the T500 before even the shifter! Unless you REALLY want that better belt drive motor or something, definitely go G27. I mean mine works perfectly in every way for GT5 and I don't mind the noise at all and the FFB is plenty strong enough for me."
Now compare that to what we have now "Which should I get?" answer "Well I think $300 for the G27 is a better deal, but I have to keep my controller around and awake just to access the RA Menu, I can't program all the features onto the buttons which is kind of annoying and embarassing when showing off this cool game to my friends only to say 'oh yeah you can turn the wipers on and honk the horn! But I don't have those buttons mapped because I ran out of buttons, but you can do it!' and the FFB is a little too strong/weak for me and I can't make it really how I want... honestly it's just too unpolished an experience and I can't afford the $600 for the T500, but if I could, I might just do it to make my experience perfect."
See how nerfing a few features could quite easily swing some sales?
As I said before, I doubt they are trying to get G27 owners to upgrade to T500 out of frustration or anything, but when it comes time to buy that next wheel (or first wheel) they want the comparison chart to favor the T500 as much as possible to offset the price tag.
Think of how comparing GT5 against FM3 they put a lot of bullet points out there like weather, 1000 cars, time change etc... even if those things had major caveats like 80% standard cars, weather and tim only on some tracks and only in limited ways on many... it doens't matter... bullet points sell. It' marketing.
Basically the T500 has it's own selling points already, but what marketer wouldn't want MORE selling points... even if they are minor? If Toyota could somehow screw Honda into using 1mm thinner door panels do you not think they would so they could say "and our door panels are thicker than Honda's making them more dent resistent and making the whole build more solid"? I mean 1mm thicker doors are not a huge selling point on a $30,000 purchase but if you were a salesman, which would you rather have:
Checkmark next to selling point "thicker door panels"
or
Not have a selling point "thicker door panels"?
It lilke asking "would you like 25 cents or like to not get 25 cents?" It's hardly a big deal, but given the option who would ever choose "not get 25 cents" over "get 25 cents"?
Or imagine we are both selling our cars and I have the opportunity to (without getting cought) put a little dent in your cars hood. Nothing big, still runs fine and all... but it's something a potential buyer will probably notice...
If I did that, it's nt like a little dent is a huge deal, but it might just be what puts them over the edge to buy my car...
Are you seeing where I am going here?
BTW I am going to go ahead and be blunt here again, I understand you are busy modding arouond the forum and so it may be hard to follow this very techincal and long winded discussion in much detail, but it's kind of aggravating that you are continuing so adamently with your position when you have clearly not put much time into understanding the subject at hand especially when I am doing so much to try and lay it out for you in as detailled a manner as I can.
I mean you don't know what the details of the missing function that I put in the OP (which I suspect if you did might have saved a LOT of time and explaining) and you didn't even know the T500 costs $600 sans shifter...
Now not to be rude, but how would you feel if someone came up to you from basically a position ignorant of the facts then proceeded to ignore all your attempts to educate them on the situation and proceeded to argue you over and over from basically the same stance asking you things that they clearly wouldnt' have to had they bothered to read what you laid out for them before?
The places I run into this most in regular life are politics and religion... someone will constantly argue that a politician is like this or like that when they actually have onlyh a passing knowledge from a few TV blurbs about said politician and when you give them the real story on the politician they just kind of ignore it and keep asking "well what about this!" because it' what they feel must be true based ontheir emotions despite the fact you just said "he never did that thing" a second ago...
I am going to say again, I would really appreciate if, rather than what amounts to (again going to be blunt) wasting my time by popping in to put the burden of explaining the situation to you, you would give a little effort to reading what I have carefully laid out to help you help yourself before debating it further with me.
If your mod responsibilities make it impossible, I totally understand but I would also ask that you respect the truth of the situation there also and perhaps recognize your hat might best not be thrown in the ring considering you haven't had the time to put the effort necessary into it to be respectful of others time and effort involved? I mean I don't go into mac forums and try to question mac user about their issues while ignoring the FAQs or documentation provided about said subjects...
I mean post get closed because someone couldn't be bothered to look around a few posts before posting a question and knowing you don't have the time to get educated on the subject, but then posting theories on said subject repeatedly is somewhat akin to poting false information. Pretty much what I am asking for is that you recognize the amoutn of effort I have put into this, and put a reasonable amount of effort into making sure what you put forth as ideas or theories aren't already covered, debunked or easily ruled out through a little research on your end... kind of like please try using the search feature before making a new post so you don't make the mods close an uncesarily large number of duplicate thread kind of deal?
