Digital -vs- Physical | Handling Discrepancies

[shirakawaa]

I thought that car drove quite fine, if maybe a little oversteery at times. Didn't drive it that long though so I may not have been pushing. I'll have to take it for another spin. What you describe sounds more like what I found with the Spyker, man that thing is a handfull.

I used a DFGT wheel and I also fit comfort soft tires (which would be equivalent to good all-around sommer tires). The car oversteers badly and even spins just by cornering, without even braking or accelerating, if you don't countersteer quickly enough.

 

[madeye]

Saleens one of my favourite cars in game same with the TVR. It just takes a little bit of practice to get to grips with em. Im not even a seasoned GT5 player i started playing 3 months back so surely seasoned players should be able to play with it. I do use a DFGT though so dunno if thats a factor in this or not.

 

[Exorcet]

I guess what I have been wanting to know is did PD actually do some testing with any of these cars, or did they just kinda look at a picture and guess how it would perform?

Testing 1000 cars would be hard. But thankfully, it's not needed. Don't listen to the promo videos for GT where they mention driving the cars on track to capture the feel in the game. What you would actually do in a sim is make sure that your physics model can capture the dynamics of a vehicle properly, and then you make sure to take relevant variables from car manufacturers, or estimate them yourself.

PD made mistakes/omissions in both areas. The physics model is simply wrong in a lot of ways, and there are cars that clearly use incorrect data. See Viper SRT-10 03, which has the power curve of a 1.0 Liter high revving engine. Or the F40 which uses dry weight. Same for the Ford GT. I suspect, though without access to the physics model I'm unsure, that older cars are not handled very well by the physics model.

Saleens one of my favourite cars in game same with the TVR. It just takes a little bit of practice to get to grips with em. Im not even a seasoned GT5 player i started playing 3 months back so surely seasoned players should be able to play with it. I do use a DFGT though so dunno if thats a factor in this or not.

But the topic being discussed is how accurate are the cars. The Saleen isn't really all that stable, and there's no hint of downforce. This is completely opposite from the actual car. Also, on proper tires (ie Comfort Soft) you don't even get close to the Saleen's test acceleration. The tires are incapable of sustaining a realistic amount of grip under acceleration. That's a serious issue and a flaw in the physics. It's also been present since GT4, which suggests that PD does not care.

 

[playnthru]

I'm so sorry to tell you.. GT5, is not Real.. It's a game for Fun. The End.. "The real driving simulator" is called Marketing..

Comfort Soft tires, Are Not Like Any real tire. Honestly, if comfort soft were "like real tires" we would all be dead.. Killed by grannies driving SLS's.

No tire model in GT5 is accurate. It's a game.. Real life is outside!

 

[JLawrence]

Testing 1000 cars would be hard. But thankfully, it's not needed. Don't listen to the promo videos for GT where they mention driving the cars on track to capture the feel in the game. What you would actually do in a sim is make sure that your physics model can capture the dynamics of a vehicle properly, and then you make sure to take relevant variables from car manufacturers, or estimate them yourself.

PD made mistakes/omissions in both areas. The physics model is simply wrong in a lot of ways, and there are cars that clearly use incorrect data. See Viper SRT-10 03, which has the power curve of a 1.0 Liter high revving engine. Or the F40 which uses dry weight. Same for the Ford GT. I suspect, though without access to the physics model I'm unsure, that older cars are not handled very well by the physics model.

Thankyou for clarifying that for me. That actually makes a lot of sense.
Now do we think there is a reason they have done things like that to the Viper or the F40 or would you consider it to be just pure lazyness?

 

[Jawehawk]

Thankyou for clarifying that for me. That actually makes a lot of sense.
Now do we think there is a reason they have done things like that to the Viper or the F40 or would you consider it to be just pure lazyness?

I'm sure PD would love to take all the cars in the game, to all the real tracks in the game, to test exactly how each car behaves. However, that simply isn't possible due to time and money constraints. And as a result, they have to do the best they can, which whatever options and tools they have.

Expecting all the cars in the game, or even just all the premium ones, to drive exactly like their real life counterpart, is just silly.

 

[Exorcet]

Thankyou for clarifying that for me. That actually makes a lot of sense.
Now do we think there is a reason they have done things like that to the Viper or the F40 or would you consider it to be just pure lazyness?

I lean toward lazy just because the errors were carried over from GT4 exactly in some cases, and because (in the case of the Viper at least) they actually corrected it, but did not correct it. The Viper 03 and 06 use the same engine. The 06 has the correct curve, so PD went and obtained the correct data, but then did not go back and fix the 03.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'm sure PD would love to take all the cars in the game, to all the real tracks in the game, to test exactly how each car behaves. However, that simply isn't possible due to time and money constraints. And as a result, they have to do the best they can, which whatever options and tools they have.

Expecting all the cars in the game, or even just all the premium ones, to drive exactly like their real life counterpart, is just silly.

That's true. What will be more difficult. If PD was worth to actually drive every single car in the game, many the premiums. We all know some "inpatient" people will jump them for taking far to long you know?

 

[TrackpadUser]

The RUF Yellowbird, almost undrivable. I do love driving it, its a challenge. It's fast too, but hold on for that oversteer, you will be white knuckling it around the track. whoo hoo!

At least it is know for being an oversteery car IRL

Its a Porsche 911 930, a car known for being quite oversteery, but it has even more power and its lighter.

 

[phil_75]

The McLaren MP4-12C seems to have strange handling to me. In real life it's meant to be extremely grippy and fast, but to me, in GT5 it's slidy and comparitively slow.That may be because of my driving style and because I use a DS3 though.

Its one of the worst handling cars in GT5!👎

 

[DGXR]

Yes GT5 is a game. It is also touted as a racing simulation, and as such, there are some really big mistakes as everyone said above. Even if PD got it right with all the power curves, curb weights, F/R weight balance, tire grip, downforce, etc. there would still be some flaw or bug in the game. Personally I love the S7, it is one of my favorite cars. I also like the MP12-C and McLaren F1. I agree about the Speed 12 -- with such high power and light weight it should drive better but it's certainly not undriveable. For some reason I have trouble with the BMW 2002 and certainly the Hyundai HCD concept.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Not that anyone else was asking, but they were on my mind so I drove both the Spirra and Spyker for a while today at Trial Mountain on Comfort Softs(Fanatec GT3, no aids, practice mode).

I still love the Spirra and want to drive it more. It is a bit twitchy on the way into the apex, but once you're through it is absolutely planted on exit. It likes to get into the sort of slides that you can put your foot on the floor and just wait a half-second as it settles then rockets forward out of the corner. Great fun to drive.

The C8 I found a bit more docile than memory, but still with massive understeer on entry and one tiny problem on exit causes wild oversteer that I have a tough time catching.

C8 wins on sound, Spirra wins on fun. Both hated Trial Mountain's many crests. C8 was faster as it should be, but only by a tenth this test. There was clearly lots more in it but it was much harder to find. The Spirra was much faster through every corner on the track, but obviously the Spyker has the power.

 

[Slash]

Yep have you tried driving the Shelby GT350? pretty undriveable no matter what I did to it.

Which is bull because in real life that car is grippier than all hell.

 

[playnthru]

Which is bull because in real life that car is grippier than all hell.

Have you ever seen real race footage of a GT350R.? Or driven one? They are sideways on entry,exit and in a straight line. "grippier than hell" they raced on bias ply tires.

 

[tfed]

Lancia stratos is a goddamn midget on a top

 

[watermelon punch]

"The real driving simulator" is called Marketing..

This ^
It is, after all, a game.
A really good game.

But I do think they probably neglected a LOT with the antiques.

I mean the schwimwagen & kubelwagen surely are NOT realistic the way they drive in the game!!!!!

One would hope they would've put more realism into the Spitfire or Viper or whatever... But I think it comes down to priorities.
Perhaps if they did it right, we'd have to have paid $300 for the game. And then they couldn't stay in business I guess.

Comfort Soft tires, Are Not Like Any real tire. Honestly, if comfort soft were "like real tires" we would all be dead.. Killed by grannies driving SLS's.

No tire model in GT5 is accurate

I agree with this. That, I think has always been a big part of the problems with GT5.
The improved tire model is definitely improved in some ways.
But I suspect it still leaves a lot to be desired.

That said, I'm going to disagree that comfort tires are necessarily completely worse than real life road tires. Difference being that you would NOT be driving on real roads they way you do in GT5 race track races!!
Or at least I hope you shouldn't be!!!!

@ JLawrence: PS: You can edit the subject title of this thread at any time, I believe. You may get more of the informed types of responses about game modeling if you specify an interest in comparing real world vintage cars to their gt5 models. 👍

 

[Morgoth_666]

Lancia stratos is a goddamn midget on a top

So you're saying it's very accurate then, right?

 

[watermelon punch]

Lancia stratos is a goddamn midget on a top

So you're saying it's very accurate then, right?

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You may get more of the informed types of responses about game modeling if you specify an interest in comparing real world vintage cars to their gt5 models. 👍

I mean yeah, we can all agree that the Stratos is a handful in this game.
But does anyone have one in real life??
I sure don't!

I don't have a Midget either.
Would the real life Midget make me as car sick as the one in the game?
I don't know!!

I would be interested in hearing what people who HAVE driven these cars in real life, have to say about it.

 

[Exorcet]

I would be interested in hearing what people who HAVE driven these cars in real life, have to say about it.

But even better than that is having people who know what they're talking about.

There is potentially some value in owning the car as far as this discussion goes, but ownership does not make someone an expert on cars.

 

[Morgoth_666]

But even better than that is having people who know what they're talking about.

There is potentially some value in owning the car as far as this discussion goes, but ownership does not make someone an expert on cars.

Indeed. There are many people who know the cars I've owned far better than I ever will. I can tell you that an '87 Camaro 2.8L has a very nice breeze coming through the foot-vents at 100mph(no idea how I've remembered that all these years), but I could never tell you how the rear end reacts while plunging through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca or how fast it could take a non-cambered hairpin without looping.

 

[Mac K]

Why are so many people mentioning the GT350? It's no GT-R, but its far from undriveable as opposed to a Yellowbird or a Stratos. Honestly though, no car is undriveable, some are just harder than others.

 

[ZohsixGT5]

I golded the recent seasonal with a tuned version of the GT350. It's not THAT bad.

 

[tfed]

Its going to be hard to find someone on here,thats driven an orginal stratos. Not the kit version

 

[TokoTurismo]

^ You mean the road version? I have one, and rally version.

 

[Mac K]

^ You mean the road version? I have one, and rally version.

He meant a real Stratos

 

[JLawrence]

I happen to love the GT350. It's one of my favorites in the game, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it isn't that much like the couple I have taken around the track in real life. Obviously it isn't the grippiest of cars, but even still, the real life car doesn't slide every time you touch the gas

 

[tfed]

^ You mean the road version? I have one, and rally version.

Yeah my bad,an actual real stratos

 

[C-ZETA]

Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car.

Press the throttle in it and you'll get sideways. And if you steer it with one ounce of steering too much, and you've spun it into the gravel and possibly gone and hit the wall with it.

 

[White & Nerdy]

The stock one is like that too, only everything happens in sllloooooowwwwww mmmmoooootttttttiiiiiooooonnnnnn. The real one can't possibly handle like that.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car.

Press the throttle in it and you'll get sideways. And if you steer it with one ounce of steering too much, and you've spun it into the gravel and possibly gone and hit the wall with it.

Same thing happend to me too with that car, it's crazy. Sometimes don't drive it if I don't want to drift but it's crazy to handle.

You have to be extra careful when driving that thing. But I like it though I'll give it that.