Diminishing Returns on Updates? Is it Time for 6?

[another_jakhole]

For the technological make-up of the game, of course the PS3 hardware caused big problems. The PS3 is severely starved of bandwidth and RAM, as witnessed by alpha that is running at such an absurdly low resolution.

For the game design, no, the PS3 hardware was not the problem. That would be a legitimate complaint of Polyphony Digital, that their game design skills are in the toilet, and if I personally am to stick with GT in future, it's an area they will have to improve by a factor of ten. I no longer want the same rehashed and broken GT design from years gone by.

I wouldn't say "in the toilet", but I kind of agree.

Thing is, a lot of people have a problem with the Menu system, and I barely do anymore. There are some people that have gripes with something that I don't have a big problem about, but then, some of those people come off as selfish by saying we don't need Photo Mode, which I've seen multiple times. Not nearly serious enough to be a consensus.

I hate that we have to listen to the default music in the Used Car dealerships. I don't really like that we still have to see the car roll up, even though, I can cut 5 seconds off that time by pushing Circle/X before the car even shows. Then, there are the tracks like High Speed Ring and Eiger Nordwand Short that have Reverse layouts and WEATHER layouts, but there are no Reverse layouts of them with Weather.

Sound effects are always louder than the Music in a race, unless I turn down Sound effects to under 65 out of 120. The sorting of paint chips is a real pain, too. I'm not completely against paint chips, but we should be able to have a way of getting them easier. For example, once we have one, we should be allowed to purchase them for however much or get them for free. These aren't nit-picks. Common-sense, it should be.

 

[Samus]

Couuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuldn't be more wrong. Plus, it's complete opinion. I don't use Photo Mode very often, but I KNOW a lot of people would be fuming if it wasn't in GT5. Do you know about that section of the forum? So many people use it, and what would the Admins/Jordan be using in their News articles... and the GTP BANNER for crying out loud.

You're going to extremes. There is nothing wrong with a photomode IN GAME nor is there anything wrong with adding a few backgrounds for a dedicated mode. What they didn't need to do was go to the exteme detail they did do on the photo travel locations, putting in as much or sometimes more detail than the actual race tracks. That was bad use of time, pure and simple.

1During the beginning, they really didn't, especially Kaz. He would be informed that some things couldn't be done due to it. He said it himself. They had to restart on some things over and over again.

PD are a first party developer with direct connections to Sony. They should have been the first to get to grips with the PS3 so I don't see how 'they didn't know what the PS3 was like' can be an excuse.

2Please don't. I can, honestly, say that's just wrong for more than one reason.

What is wrong? That this game took 6 years to develop? It did. Yes they may have worked on other things in between but the total length for GT6 was six years.

You need to go back and go through all the list of things and also go through forum to the list of things which are not mentioned since launch

They've made little tweaks here and there, but what MAJOR updates have their been? I'm talking large, game changing updates? Like I said even Spec 2.0 didn't change a great deal, it was just rushed out to coincide with the Forza 4 release date.

 

[another_jakhole]

They learned they couldn't do a lot of what they wanted on the PS3 as time went on. The level of detail in everything is PD's style. That's not a surprise. A lot of that stuff is worth it. Obviously, the level of detail in the cars make it so that they don't have to touch them up in the future.

What is wrong? That this game took 6 years to develop? It did. Yes they may have worked on other things in between but the total length for GT6 was six years.

You're hilarious. With your sarcastic and sly statements you usually post like. It's not worth it.


The last thing you said to kimi123 is opinion. I've ignored you whenever you posted saying that, because it wasn't worth it, a.k.a. my time.

 

[Samus]

They learned they couldn't do a lot of what they wanted on the PS3 as time went on. The level of detail in everything is PD's style. That's not a surprise. A lot of that stuff is worth it.

Did they realise they couldn't make 400 more events, make more use of the Top Gear license, include more variety in the cars, upscale more older tracks, make a better levelling system? No, and the list could go on. Yes they probably realised some of what they wanted to do graphically was limited by the console but CONTENT wise, no, they weren't limited by the console which once again, was my underlying point.

You're hilarious. With your sarcastic and sly statements you usually post like. It's not worth it.

Is that your response? Nothing for the actual point at hand?

The last thing you said to kimi123 is opinion. I've ignored you whenever you posted saying that, because it wasn't worth it, a.k.a. my time.

What? The main thing I said to kimi123 was a question. Yes the last part about spec 2.0 was my opinion but what is the problem with that?

 

[kimi123]

You're going to extremes. There is nothing wrong with a photomode IN GAME nor is there anything wrong with adding a few backgrounds for a dedicated mode. What they didn't need to do was go to the exteme detail they did do on the photo travel locations, putting in as much or sometimes more detail than the actual race tracks. That was bad use of time, pure and simple.





PD are a first party developer with direct connections to Sony. They should have been the first to get to grips with the PS3 so I don't see how 'they didn't know what the PS3 was like' can be an excuse.



What is wrong? That this game took 6 years to develop? It did. Yes they may have worked on other things in between but the total length for GT6 was six years.



They've made little tweaks here and there, but what MAJOR updates have their been? I'm talking large, game changing updates? Like I said even Spec 2.0 didn't change a great deal, it was just rushed out to coincide with the Forza 4 release date.

Again go through the list of changes since launch. It is considerable amount of updates to say the least.

 

[Samus]

Again go through the list of changes since launch. It is considerable amount of updates to say the least.

I have done, I've seen nothing major so I'm asking you, what would you consider to have been major updates or changes?

Again look at Spec 2.0, what did that REALLY add to the main single player game, A-Spec?

- standard cars given basic silhouette cockpit. (Not a few 'feature' and not something done very well)
- New opening movie (I still can't believe this was touted as a main part of the update. A new movie adds 0 to the game)
- Weather change menus in arcade mode (Handy for racing at certain times/rain in arcade, but no use for A-Spec)
- 11 NASCAR cars (They're pretty much identical to the 2010 cars. Only a die-hard NASCAR fan would get something out of those)
- Nissan GT-R Schulze (I don't even need to do the 'another GTR' line, do I?)
- Avatar in photo mode travel (Oh wow, this adds hours of fun and enjoyment. This is a perfect example of PD putting time into something that nobody asked for or cared about)
- Replay fast forward/rewind (As we found out, this was pretty misleading and not much use at all)
- Online restrictions (Good, but something we could have done manually beforehand)
- New photo stage added (See comment about avatar in photo mode travel)

- A few other misc tweaks that added no new content, just, well, tweaks.

 

[tfed]

Ugh, another i hate gt5 thread,just with a different title

 

[kimi123]

I have done, I've seen nothing major so I'm asking you, what would you consider to have been major updates or changes?

Again look at Spec 2.0, what did that REALLY add to the main single player game, A-Spec?

- standard cars given basic silhouette cockpit. (Not a few 'feature' and not something done very well)
- New opening movie (I still can't believe this was touted as a main part of the update. A new movie adds 0 to the game)
- Weather change menus in arcade mode (Handy for racing at certain times/rain in arcade, but no use for A-Spec)
- 11 NASCAR cars (They're pretty much identical to the 2010 cars. Only a die-hard NASCAR fan would get something out of those)
- Nissan GT-R Schulze (I don't even need to do the 'another GTR' line, do I?)
- Avatar in photo mode travel (Oh wow, this adds hours of fun and enjoyment. This is a perfect example of PD putting time into something that nobody asked for or cared about)
- Replay fast forward/rewind (As we found out, this was pretty misleading and not much use at all)
- Online restrictions (Good, but something we could have done manually beforehand)
- New photo stage added (See comment about avatar in photo mode travel)

- A few other misc tweaks that added no new content, just, well, tweaks.

I do not feel like copying pasting the whole list of updates and seasonal events. But it is pretty big. In fact too much to read.

 

[Samus]

I do not feel like copying pasting the whole list of updates and seasonal events. But it is pretty big. In fact too much to read.

I didn't ask you to post the whole list, I asked you to post what you think were the biggest individual changes to the game.

 

[ch3ng]

Ugh, another i hate gt5 thread,just with a different title

You didnt read the Thread did you? The Thread is Not about hating GT. This Thread is Critics on GT, discussion about new GT5 Updates or GT6 full development instead.

 

[tfed]

New chase cam,and cockpits for standards were pretty boss. At this point in the games cycle PD really dosent owe us anything

 

[ch3ng]

New chase cam,and cockpits for standards were pretty boss. At this point in the games cycle PD really dosent owe us anything

Thats your opinion

 

[tfed]

You didnt read the Thread did you? The Thread is Not about hating GT. This Thread is Critics on GT, discussion about new GT5 Updates or GT6 full development instead.

Happily i did not,just the last two pages. Yeah exactly that is my opinion,just like all the other walls of text are opinion as well.....so yeah, ha

 

[another_jakhole]

Thank you ^^

I didn't ask you to post the whole list, I asked you to post what you think were the biggest individual changes to the game.

Subjective ^^^. Just like how you think Photo Travel locations shouldn't have that much detail, I disagreed.

Not to mention, the first year of updates before Spec 2 were almost completely what PD couldn't add to the game. Ever since Spec 2, they've been adding a lot of what we wanted.

They've been improving the standards as time went on. That's one thing the isn't documented. So how about stop trying to get us off guard.

There are so many things you don't care to acknowledge. If you're leaving out G25/G27 support, improving the looks of the standards, and the biggest part of the game, the physics, then I don't see why I should take you seriously. I didn't even want to reply, but I needed to show that you're not all that.

 

[Samus]

Subjective ^^^. Just like how you think Photo Travel locations shouldn't have that much detail, I disagreed.

Of course it's subjective, that's why I want to hear his opinion of what he considers to be major updates.

Not to mention, the first year of updates before Spec 2 were almost completely what PD couldn't add to the game. Ever since Spec 2, they've been adding a lot of what we wanted.

Which are......?

They've been improving the standards as time went on. That's one thing the isn't documented. So how about stop trying to get us off guard.

Even if that is true, ever heard the phrase 'can't polish a turd'? They can 'improve' the standards all they like, they're still standard. Plus even so it's not a game changing update, I'm not going to spend hours more playing it because a few cars aren't quite as badly textured.

I'm not trying catch anyone 'off guard' or try to belittle anyone, I'm simply asking what people consider to be the biggest updates to this game. I don't see how it's a sneaky question or anything.

There are so many things you don't care to acknowledge. If you're leaving out G25/G27 support, improving the looks of the standards, and the biggest part of the game, the physics, then I don't see why I should take you seriously. I didn't even want to reply, but I needed to show that you're not all that.

Again, I'm not trying to be 'all that'. I simply started out in this thread by saying that in my opinion the GT5 updates are not as substantial/game changing/lengthening as some like to suggest. Now i'm trying to ask for anyone to tell me what the biggest changes were and nobody seems to be able to tell me.

 

[research]

Couuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuldn't be more wrong. Plus, it's complete opinion. I don't use Photo Mode very often, but I KNOW a lot of people would be fuming if it wasn't in GT5. Do you know about that section of the forum? So many people use it, and what would the Admins/Jordan be using in their News articles... and the GTP BANNER for crying out loud.

I didn't say abolish Photo-Mode. I'm talking about the crazy, hand-built Photo-Mode locations. Yes, they are gorgeous- but what are we talking about here? We're talking about precious man-hours that could've been used for something much more relevant to making this a great racing game. Is that not a fair statement?


There are PLENTY of beautiful locations to take photos on the many miles of track in gt5.


Racing Immersion > Photos of our cars next to a trolley.

 

[research]

SimonK has a strong point.

Wheels and psuedo-cockpits for standards just strikes us as something that should've been there at release. Physics, graphics, and sound tweaks... meh. Not bad, but these are minor. Simon is asking us to report the major changes- and it is hard to name one.

Don't get me wrong- i love all of the little improvements that have been made, but I question why they ever had to be made in the first place.


.. and "Support" for the G27/G25? What. They gave us a little diagram to make it easier to set up the button configuration. You could already just use the DFGT diagram and set up your G27 buttons to your liking. Support, to me, would mean things like force-feedback strength and speed, deadzone adjustment, etc...

 

[Samus]

I didn't say abolish Photo-Mode. I'm talking about the crazy, hand-built Photo-Mode locations. Yes, they are gorgeous- but what are we talking about here? We're talking about precious man-hours that could've been used for something much more relevant to making this a great racing game. Is that not a fair statement?


There are PLENTY of beautiful locations to take photos on the many miles of track in gt5.


Racing Immersion > Photos of our cars next to a trolley.

Exactly. I don't know how anyone can say this sort of detail in a photo mode only - https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-vs-reality-can-you-tell-the-difference/

Is more important to a driving/racing game than all of the circuits they removed from previous games.

 

[another_jakhole]

No one said it's more important. I hate the literalness some of you take things. Not researchALLwars, but you, definitely. Sometimes I feel like

I didn't say abolish Photo-Mode. I'm talking about the crazy, hand-built Photo-Mode locations. Yes, they are gorgeous- but what are we talking about here? We're talking about precious man-hours that could've been used for something much more relevant to making this a great racing game. Is that not a fair statement?


There are PLENTY of beautiful locations to take photos on the many miles of track in gt5.


Racing Immersion > Photos of our cars next to a trolley.

Yeah, nevermind, that first post I made was wrong, but people do think they need to take Photo Mode out. I read it wrong the first time, then I read it right the second time and I said that you should expect that level of detail by now.

There are PLENTY of beautiful locations to take photos on the many miles of track in gt5.

It's really not the same. I'm telling you, Photo Travel is essential to have in GT. It has to be superb.

Also, it's not like there are more Photo Travel locations than tracks and it's not an entire city that they have to remodel. London, Rome, Madrid tracks. There's a huge amount of time spent on them. Not to mention the other real world city tracks/layouts and Nordschleife. I don't think the Photo Travel locations are that big of a deal to be complaining about the level of detail they have.

I already explained why I don't care to reply to simonk.

 

[Samus]

No one said it's more important. I hate the literalness some of you take things. Not researchALLwars, but you, definitely.



Yeah, nevermind, that first post I made was wrong, but people do think they need to take Photo Mode out. I read it wrong the first time, then I read it right the second time and I said that you should expect that level of detail by now.

So what were the standard cars then? That's the big problem here, they go all out and you claim they strive for perfection with the photomode locations and we should just expect that sort of detail and quality from PD, then they go and give us standard cars. It doesn't really fit with this 'perfect' mantra, and why people need to stop using it as a pseudo excuse as to why they spend so much time on things most people would suggest they shouldn't have.

I mean like the point I made earlier, one or more PD employees spent their precious time programming the ability for us to place our drivers into photomode locations so we can take a picture of them. WHO ASKED FOR THAT?!?! Who would miss something like that?

The list can go on but it all comes down to the same point I've been making that you seem to still disagree with, PD made bad decisions of where to use their time in making this game.

 

[kimi123]

I didn't ask you to post the whole list, I asked you to post what you think were the biggest individual changes to the game.

I am just proving you wrong that the game has got several changes since launch.

The game has got too many changes so I cannot pick one. Things like cleverly managing load times, the performance, the graphics settings, wind sound, AI patterns, Camera angles, save option, weather and time control, removing HUD and so on ...

The greatest thing for me is that the game has got such a support from PD. This is the most awesome thing about it.

 

[Samus]

I am just proving you wrong that the game has got several changes since launch.

I never said it hadn't had a lot of updates, obviously it has. What I said was it hadn't really got any significant changes that radically changed or extended the single player game.

The game has got too many changes so I cannot pick one. Things like cleverly managing load times, the performance, the graphics settings, wind sound, AI patterns, Camera angles, save option, weather and time control, removing HUD and so on ...

Right, and how many of those things radically changed or extended the gameplay life? If you've stopped playing the game which of those updates screams "come back, there is more life in this game"?

 

[thelvynau]

When I joined gtp I had the impression simonk was just a gt5 hater but with more time reading the posts I am seeing that maybe he is right and gt5 has fallen short on what it could have been.

6 years of development and you would expect more from the game. Im not sure if hardware issues were the maun reason but if you add the time they have added new features then thats a very long time to try and polish a game.

 

[research]

The greatest thing for me is that the game has got such a support from PD. This is the most awesome thing about it.

I fully agree about the great support. Even though many updates/bug fixes turn into new bugs- I must give PD credit for using resources to improve a product that we have already paid for. The weather control, HUD-options (THANK YOU PD for allowing us to remove that bloody gear-change indicator!), wheels, load-time revamp, A.I. settings, physics and sound tweaks have all been very welcomed.

I will say this: A nice, beefy Event Creator would definitely alleviate many of the longevity concerns which are obviously surfacing and it would be considered a MAJOR update by all... even SimonK.

 

[Samus]

I love the GT series in general and it's no coincidence that I bought my PS3 in November 2010. I also greatly enjoyed GT5 but it just wasn't as good as I hoped, which i'm sure many of you have picked up. Why am I still here critiquing the game? I don't really know, probably because I procrastinate a lot but maybe in the slightest hope PD are reading these forums and that they can recover the first driving game I ever knew and loved.

One thing it certainly isn't is that I hate GT5 and just love the other game. Not that it matters but I've not had a 360 for nearly a year, so ain't even played FM4, just the two previous.

 

[kimi123]

I never said it hadn't had a lot of updates, obviously it has. What I said was it hadn't really got any significant changes that radically changed or extended the single player game.



Right, and how many of those things radically changed or extended the gameplay life? If you've stopped playing the game which of those updates screams "come back, there is more life in this game"?

As I said via updates they improved the game considerably. Adding more content and charging for it is not even important, everyone does that. But they can already sell some of the content that is going to be avaliable on GT6 via DLC through out this year if they want. It is upto them to decide

 

[Samus]

As I said via updates they improved the game considerably. Adding more content and charging for it is not even important, everyone does that. But they can already sell some of the content that is going to be avaliable on GT6 via DLC through out this year if they want. It is upto them to decide

So no, you can't tell me any game changing/extending updates?

 

[steve30x]

I just hope that they dont give any info on GT6 until they are 100% positive of whats going to be in the game and no more than 6 months before release.

 

[marky5244]

Personally I suspect GT5 was far from finished in middle of 2010 but Sony told PD that they had to release GT5 by the end of 2010. So PD took what they had and did their best to make a final product from it for release. It wasn't what they had wanted to release as GT5 but they had to get something out as it was getting a bit ridiculous. Since then I'm sure they have been working on GT6 but whether that will be released for PS3 or PS4 I don't know. Personally I hope GT6 is for PS3 and that its release is closer than we'd ever believe - it would be as GT5 was originally planned to be by PD.

As for the released DLC for GT5 it has been minimal and I think it is has been drip fed to keep GT fans just about happy. What about all those original tracks that didn't appear in GT5? Where are they? I'd buy them as DLC! I think they're being saved up for a blockbuster GT6 release in the relatively near future.

Just my opinion, could well be a load of rubbish.

 

[another_jakhole]

Personally I suspect GT5 was far from finished in middle of 2010 but Sony told PD that they had to release GT5 by the end of 2010. So PD took what they had and did their best to make a final product from it for release. It wasn't what they had wanted to release as GT5 but they had to get something out as it was getting a bit ridiculous. Since then I'm sure they have been working on GT6 but whether that will be released for PS3 or PS4 I don't know. Personally I hope GT6 is for PS3 and that its release is closer than we'd ever believe - it would be as GT5 was originally planned to be by PD.

As for the released DLC for GT5 it has been minimal and I think it is has been drip fed to keep GT fans just about happy. What about all those original tracks that didn't appear in GT5? Where are they? I'd buy them as DLC! I think they're being saved up for a blockbuster GT6 release in the relatively near future.

Just my opinion, could well be a load of rubbish.

It's isn't rubbish. It just isn't. PD really doesn't have to do anything anymore. If they were selfish and lazy, they'd tell us all to screw off by not doing anything. It's been over a year of adding/fixing GT5.

People keep bringing up that it took 6 years after GT4 to get GT5. Somehow all the features that GT5 has and other racers don't have aren't taken into consideration. simonk keeps saying "So no, you can't tell me any game changing/extending updates?"

He sounds so ignorant (to me) because as I already said, he ignored some of THEE biggest improvements to the game. How is physics improvement not difficult/time-consuming/game-changing in GT5? All the changes that weren't listed in the update logs. All the changes that he doesn't think are serious enough, obviously since his opinion of them are different than ours.