Dirt is not ice!

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

How could they get this soooooooo wrong? Running half a rear wheel onto dirt does not mean you will automatically rotate the rear end 280 degrees!

Running around in the AMG on suzuka, or is it a '69' Newport Custom? Because that's what it drives like...

 

[MowTin]

I think if you're driving at the limit of lateral traction already and one of your tires...barely hanging on to the tarmac hits something like dirt or grass you'll instantly lose grip...the lateral forces will spike and you'll start spinning.

However, I suspect that dirt behaves differently than solid surfaces like tarmac, concrete or ice.

But I'm no expert.

 

[GTP_Cobra]

Im not sure either i agree with MowTin, but give it ago in ur car go round a corner at 100MPH hit the dirt and find out?

 

[91hondawagon]

Yeah, getting out of dirt or sand is like trying to escape from a plain of peanut butter; in certain cars, like Ferraris and the like, I can't get over 15 mph in the sand. When a tire goes off the track, though, let off of the gas an don't brake. If the turn is wide enough, you may be able to pull back on to the track and save your lap.

 

[Perfect Balance]

How could they get this soooooooo wrong? Running half a rear wheel onto dirt does not mean you will automatically rotate the rear end 280 degrees!

Running around in the AMG on suzuka, or is it a '69' Newport Custom? Because that's what it drives like...

I tried dropping my tire off the road at 50mph once, into some gravel.

Scary moment, it's pretty accurate.

Look what happens to my friends car when he hits some gravel that washed out onto the road.


EDIT: Language warning at the end.

 

[91hondawagon]

I tried dropping my tire off the road at 50mph once, into some gravel.

Scary moment, it's pretty accurate.

Look what happens to my friends car when he hits some gravel that washed out onto the road.

EDIT: Language warning at the end.

Thanks for the vid, it gets pretty crazy when you hit that gravel.

BTW, I see you're from Virginia, and it looked a lot like the Blue Ridge Parkway you were driving on. I'm on that road a lot, and I'm a bit afraid that one day I'm going to run (literally) into you.

Just kidding. But thanks for the vid, it really shows how accurate GT5's gravel physics are.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Thanks for the vid, it gets pretty crazy when you hit that gravel.

BTW, I see you're from Virginia, and it looked a lot like the Blue Ridge Parkway you were driving on. I'm on that road a lot, and I'm a bit afraid that one day I'm going to run (literally) into you.

Just kidding. But thanks for the vid, it really shows how accurate GT5's gravel physics are.

I wasn't driving, and although it wasn't the Blue Ridge parkway, it's still in the Appalachian mountains. It crosses over to West Virginia. Awesome road, that one.

Just keep an eye out for cars and don't drive at night. Worked pretty well for us so far, haven't had any crashes yet. People seem to think that driving at a quick(er) pace automatically means that you are driving blindly and recklessly, and will crash 100% of the time, when in reality, I am more careful, and pay more attention to the road and my surroundings than anywhere else.

EDIT: I don't think I'll be passing you anytime soon, you're 100+ miles away.

 

[SolidSnake15]

I tried dropping my tire off the road at 50mph once, into some gravel.

Scary moment, it's pretty accurate.

Look what happens to my friends car when he hits some gravel that washed out onto the road.

 

[Loon]

I tried dropping my tire off the road at 50mph once, into some gravel.

Scary moment, it's pretty accurate.

Look what happens to my friends car when he hits some gravel that washed out onto the road.


EDIT: Language warning at the end.

Is your friend an idiot?

 

[breakpoint]

I spun my GSX Eclipse out on time on a curve just because there was a dip in the road in the curve. Once the weight transfered the tail end came out and around and around i went. Was doing about 65 and managed to keep it out of someones fence, but i did tear up theyre yard a bit. Your friends car sounded like it was struggling...

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

Not sure where to begin there, I'll start be saying that clip has absolutely nothing to do with running a half tire on dirt in anyway what so ever. Your friend didn't hit gravel from the looks of it, it looks like he hit busted asphalt that had a pretty decent drop-off. Basically he ran off the road.

Not sure what the car is, but it's not going to have the same characteristics of the AMG that's for sure.

Lastly your friend shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of a car ever. That's one of the stupidest things I've seen in a long time. I can't believe you posted that here. I have a friend that was put into a coma because she was a passenger in the car of some moron who thought he could drive fast on a ****ty road, she ended up with permanent brain damage.

Give your head a shake, man.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Any damage to the car?

No

Is your friend an idiot?

No not really, but with all the other stupid reckless videos and bad drivers on the road, I can see why someone would think that with no background information.

I spun my GSX Eclipse out on time on a curve just because there was a dip in the road in the curve. Once the weight transfered the tail end came out and around and around i went. Was doing about 65 and managed to keep it out of someones fence, but i did tear up theyre yard a bit. Your friends car sounded like it was struggling...

It is a stock engine'd Miata, they were never too powerful to begin with.

Not sure where to begin there, I'll start be saying that clip has absolutely nothing to do with running a half tire on dirt in anyway what so ever. Your friend didn't hit gravel from the looks of it, it looks like he hit busted asphalt that had a pretty decent drop-off. Basically he ran off the road.

I can provide pictures of the gravel (wouldn't be today though, they are on my friends PC) if you don't believe me, and the drop off is only a few inches. His back wheels actually went off the road and back on while going sideways, so the drop off isn't too big. Actual dirt would probable have been a lot worse, this is a mild example of what could happen.

Not sure what the car is, but it's not going to have the same characteristics of the AMG that's for sure.

Maybe not but this video is to show what can happen when a car hits something other than pavement, and how big the effect can actually be. An AMG would probably be moving a lot faster in any situation like this, so multiply that a few times.

Lastly your friend shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of a car ever. That's one of the stupidest things I've seen in a long time. I can't believe you posted that here. I have a friend that was put into a coma because she was a passenger in the car of some moron who thought he could drive fast on a ****ty road, she ended up with permanent brain damage.

The road isn't crappy, and if she willingly went along for the ride, she knew the risks that went along with it.

If she was an innocent victim, then my condolences go out to you, innocent people should never die.

As an outside viewer though, I don't find it odd that you lump my friend into all the other crap drivers behind the wheels of their cars who think they are the next Ayrton Senna. I'm actually surprised at how bad some well respected famous drivers are after learning a few things myself. My friend isn't some throttle happy adrenaline junkie who likes to hear tires squeal. He spends a better portion of each day to improve his driving and knowledge. He just won a scholarship for 25,000, and it's going straight to skip barber racing school.

This thread is really not the place though. I posted the video to show that something as simple as some gravel on the road at 40mph can easily cause a wreck, so GT5P isn't too far off.

 

[RedSuinit]

Wow, you're lucky to be alive, if that truck had been about three seconds farther back than it was...

 

[putty]

from my limited experience with losing it at speed, GT5P is pretty accurate.

when a tire hits something that is low friction, you are essentially eliminating that tire from adding any traction. it is like 3 tires having to do the work of 4.

my friend and i were driving, i was in the passenger seat. he is a decent driver. going around a hairpin, wet road, one side of the car hits wet leaves on the road.

instantly, we start to drift towards the ditch at high speed. everything is in slow motion as the car continues to carve to the outside of the turn.

right at edge of the road running water had cleared about 50 cm wide of leaves, so essentially the leaves that spun us out were now between the right and left tires of the car. as soon as that happened, the car regained traction and we were back in control.

the whole thing could not have take more than 2 or 3 seconds, but that drift felt like eternity, i clearly remember it.

 

[Noah]

I thought the same thing about this. Seems like one tire touches the dirt and you spin out.

 

[Robie]

Please save testing things like this for track days!

 

[Lion-Face]

No i think its fairly accurate. Could it be people who jump from one car to another find it difficult? I spend alot of time in the F40 myself, i can control the car just fine from a slide or putting a tire on the grass. Not always no, but its predictable to a point where i know i can hold the slide and drive out of it or i should down shift and prepare to counter steer. The reason i say this is jumping from one car to another, your not used to the quirks of each car and putting a wheel on the grass may in one car be just fine, in others throw you off entirely. Its quite consistent to a point as i mentioned before, in a known car, it becomes predictable.

 

[moxtau]

I'd say it's accurate as it is. At any reasonable speed when you put a tire off the trackyou better stop turning, depending on speed you just lift the gas and turn slightly and carefully to get in the track again, or just brake straight if you were going really fast. Anything else means spin.

 

[Scaff]

Ignoring (for a moment) the video, dirt/gravel I would agree is not ice, however depending on the nature of the dirt it can come damn close.

Ice has a co-efficient of friction of 0.00 - 0.1 at most, now dirt and gravel will be higher than this, but if its loose gravel or dirt on a solid surface (tarmac or compacted dirt below it) and the loose surface is a greater depth that the tyre tread depth then its got a co-efficient of friction of around 0.2 - 0.3 (for reference road tarmac is around 0.9 - 1.0 and circuit tarmac around 1.1 - 1.2).

Now that a rather big difference in grip levels we are talking about and its certainly possible that running a single tyre off will reduce the grip levels significantly. So yes it is perfectly possible for this effect to be correct.


Now on the subject of the video, before anyone (and I do mean anyone) starts to throw rocks around they need to sit back and ask themselves if they have ever driven in a spirited manner on the public road (and I don't mean keeping within the speed limit - two different things). Because I think if we are honest all of those of us who drive will done something similar, hell I managed to nearly write off a car when I hit standing water and mud, at speeds well below the limit.


Regards

Scaff

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

The way I'd call it the driver got a bit of a fright when he saw the truck appear round a blind corner and turned out a bit more than he needed to avoid it. Easy mistake to make and probably a lesson learned

Didn't seem to be going too fast and he was using his lane the same way I would up until the last part. Only difference is I'd have assumed there was a much wider truck coming round there and adjusted my position accordingly, before it appeared. I think some of the comments might have been a tad harsh.

 

[Stevisiov]

Lets not forget that the rear wheels of the AMG are very chunky, and tend to sit ontop of the gravel rather than dig in like thinner wheels of saloon cars which tend to 'sink' into the gravel, I have alot of gravel thats at the bottom of my road, and whenever I accelerate from standing the wheels just spin regardless of how little power I try to put down.

 

[EDK]

Maybe not but this video is to show what can happen when a car hits something other than pavement, and how big the effect can actually be. An AMG would probably be moving a lot faster in any situation like this, so multiply that a few times.

The road isn't crappy, and if she willingly went along for the ride, she knew the risks that went along with it.

If she was an innocent victim, then my condolences go out to you, innocent people should never die.

As an outside viewer though, I don't find it odd that you lump my friend into all the other crap drivers behind the wheels of their cars who think they are the next Ayrton Senna. I'm actually surprised at how bad some well respected famous drivers are after learning a few things myself. My friend isn't some throttle happy adrenaline junkie who likes to hear tires squeal. He spends a better portion of each day to improve his driving and knowledge. He just won a scholarship for 25,000, and it's going straight to skip barber racing school.

This thread is really not the place though. I posted the video to show that something as simple as some gravel on the road at 40mph can easily cause a wreck, so GT5P isn't too far off.[/color]

Alex, I commend you. You could have easily turned this thread into another one of those big, arguing messes, with everyone personalizing it and not going anywhere. But you stuck to the facts and backed your position well. 👍

And thanks for sharing the video.

Now on the subject of the video, before anyone (and I do mean anyone) starts to throw rocks around they need to sit back and ask themselves if they have ever driven in a spirited manner on the public road (and I don't mean keeping within the speed limit - two different things). Because I think if we are honest all of those of us who drive will done something similar, hell I managed to nearly write off a car when I hit standing water and mud, at speeds well below the limit.

Nicely said. 👍

I had a similar event many years ago while driving my 1980 Scirocco on some back roads in Oregon. A little gravel on the inside of an uphill right hand turn while going about 35MPH soon had me in the middle of the road facing the wrong way. And it happens FAST.

So maybe PD just got it right with this game.

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

This is my problem with it, it's not at speed where the problem lies. Clipping some dirt/grass at 190 is usually okay for the most part, as it usually is. It's in slower tight corners/sections it seems worse.

For instance on the HSR coming across the bridge, sometimes if you push too hard you'll run wide and run the grass, but you're going pretty slow by that point. You're decreasing throttle as you're trying not to spin the drive wheels, you're just coasting through it till you get back on the track. Most cases your car will just start rotating and around you go, or you go into an unrealistic slide where getting back on the throttle has the opposite effect of powering you through it.

The other problem with controlling your car once you do clip dirt or grass is that there is a very unrealistic snap back effect on most cars. It's like once you do run off onto dirt/grass you lose the ability to 'drift' the car and it automatically spins you out. Even though the car may not be setup for rallying or 'dirt' driving, you still should have the ability to control yourself with power when this happens. The AMG for instance sure as hell has the ability to power-slide in dirt to 'pull' your way back onto the track without spinning out.

I've driven a lot on dirt / gravel in Alberta, racing through Bragg Creek and the Kananaskis Valley, there are some awesome roads there, well there used to be not sure about now. We used to 'rally' those roads all the time in anything from R12's, STi's, hell even old Galaxy 500's when we were feeling in a 'Burt Reynolds' mood. I know how to drive on dirt/gravel/mud.

Taking a car off the track onto dirt should not be a one way ticket to a 360. PD needs to work on this part of the game, it's not accurate.

I still love the game, 👍 I just hate the way it handles off track transitions and driving. I can't wait to see what they've done with the rally portions of the game, if they're still in it that is, because it's pretty well documented what rallying was like in GT4.

As for the other stuff with your clip? Whatever man. And yes I've definitely done my share of 'stupid' driving stunts on public roads, not sure why I'm still alive actually just glad I never injured anyone. I'm certainly not taking a 'holier than thou' stance, it's just stupid, period no matter who does it.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

This is my problem with it, it's not at speed where the problem lies. Clipping some dirt/grass at 190 is usually okay for the most part, as it usually is. It's in slower tight corners/sections it seems worse.

For instance on the HSR coming across the bridge, sometimes if you push too hard you'll run wide and run the grass, but you're going pretty slow by that point. You're decreasing throttle as you're trying not to spin the drive wheels, you're just coasting through it till you get back on the track. Most cases your car will just start rotating and around you go, or you go into an unrealistic slide where getting back on the throttle has the opposite effect of powering you through it.

The other problem with controlling your car once you do clip dirt or grass is that there is a very unrealistic snap back effect on most cars. It's like once you do run off onto dirt/grass you lose the ability to 'drift' the car and it automatically spins you out. Even though the car may not be setup for rallying or 'dirt' driving, you still should have the ability to control yourself with power when this happens. The AMG for instance sure as hell has the ability to power-slide in dirt to 'pull' your way back onto the track without spinning out.

I've driven a lot on dirt / gravel in Alberta, racing through Bragg Creek and the Kananaskis Valley, there are some awesome roads there, well there used to be not sure about now. We used to 'rally' those roads all the time in anything from R12's, STi's, hell even old Galaxy 500's when we were feeling in a 'Burt Reynolds' mood. I know how to drive on dirt/gravel/mud.

Taking a car off the track onto dirt should not be a one way ticket to a 360. PD needs to work on this part of the game, it's not accurate.

I still love the game, 👍 I just hate the way it handles off track transitions and driving. I can't wait to see what they've done with the rally portions of the game, if they're still in it that is, because it's pretty well documented what rallying was like in GT4.

As for the other stuff with your clip? Whatever man. And yes I've definitely done my share of 'stupid' driving stunts on public roads, not sure why I'm still alive actually just glad I never injured anyone. I'm certainly not taking a 'holier than thou' stance, it's just stupid, period no matter who does it.

i think the problem with not being able to slide the car in the dirt like you normaly would be able to is the fact that once all 4 wheels go off that stupid traction control kicks in. once that happens you no longer have the car control you really need to be able to handel the car and get it where it needs to go.

 

[bicycleshorts]

I'm surprised no one has posted this earlier:





Credit to the eclipsefan01 for hosting it on youtube.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Not sure where to begin there, I'll start be saying that clip has absolutely nothing to do with running a half tire on dirt in anyway what so ever.

is this better?

 

[newbielives]

Lol that is exactly what happens in GT5p!

is this better?

 

[paolopepper]

its the same as grid 1 tyre gers close to the edge and it spins and the vid about the f1 jsut proved it aswell

 

[RedSuinit]

Now on the subject of the video, before anyone (and I do mean anyone) starts to throw rocks around they need to sit back and ask themselves if they have ever driven in a spirited manner on the public road (and I don't mean keeping within the speed limit - two different things). Because I think if we are honest all of those of us who drive will done something similar, hell I managed to nearly write off a car when I hit standing water and mud, at speeds well below the limit.


Regards

Scaff

I have, but one thing about my comment, I was merely stating that he should be thankful he is even alive, I was intending in any way to call his friend an idiot, I have driven like that before, but like he said there are ways to do it and still be safe. For me it was back country roads where you could see 20 miles down the road, so you KNEW if you were putting anyone else's life at risk, and I KNEW what my car could and could not handle.

 

[FoolKiller]

This is my problem with it, it's not at speed where the problem lies. Clipping some dirt/grass at 190 is usually okay for the most part, as it usually is. It's in slower tight corners/sections it seems worse.

So, the places where you are most likely to have the car on the limit already? I don't know about you but I get a lot more tire squeal in a hairpin than I do on a high speed turn. This would be where you would most likely lose it if you have a loss in traction.

For instance on the HSR coming across the bridge, sometimes if you push too hard you'll run wide and run the grass, but you're going pretty slow by that point. You're decreasing throttle as you're trying not to spin the drive wheels, you're just coasting through it till you get back on the track.

So, you are slowing down, and taking a turn coming off of high speed, shifting a lot of weight to your outside wheels? And you wonder why you spin if you drop one?



I have personally flipped a car in an accident that resulted from dropping a rear tire off the road in a turn. I can tell you right now that it happens in real life because I've done it.