DiRT Rally 2.0 General Discussion

[MarcoM]

While graduated I wrote a thesis on how lorries would pass the through bends. I used Dutch professor Hans Pacejka's magic formula for tires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_B._Pacejka

Magic formula

Unreal engine using Pacejka's tyre model being used for slip angle visualization:


My friend and I using very fancy optical equipment on Celica to do measurements on slip angles to test the theory.

me

my friend

This was in 1994

I learned that tyre slip is quite difficult thing to catch in just a formula.

Just to show some graphs

 

[bogani]

Yep that's what the chart is about, as you turn the tyre deforms and the rubber wants to go back to its original shape (hence the name, is the torque from the tyres desire to self align).

Hmm, that sounds a bit too simple but I'm not an expert in vehicle dynamics.
Isn't the geometry of the front suspension the biggest reason the wheels always want to point in the direction the car travels? The caster effect?

 

[Scaff]

Is there a way to get tactile effects using the ps4?

https://thebuttkicker.com/buttkicker-gamer2/ . seems to work on consoles as well.

Next problem how do I tell my wife that I want a buttkicker?

Yep, that's exactly what I do, I have a Reckhorn system driven by my AV reciever, and would not drive without it.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/tactile-review-reckhorn-2-1-bs-200-kit.353088/

I didn't know that.

I always thought that it was because the car is travelling in one direction and the wheels are pointed in another direction. So the wheels want to align themselves with the direction the car is driving at. So the wheels are literally pushed back into the direction the car is travelling.

Its kind of the same thing, as soon as you turn the wheel the tyre starts to deform (and wants to go back to how it was) which is why as you turn the direction of the physical wheel and the direction of travel start to get out of line with each other (as the contact patch is deformed).

This series is worth a watch for how it all works.

Hmm, that sounds a bit too simple but I'm not an expert in vehicle dynamics.
Isn't the geometry of the front suspension the biggest reason the wheels always want to point in the direction the car travels? The caster effect?

That's a very simply way of explaining it, and it still one of the biggest factors, however you are quite right that everything from camber, camber recovers, load, toe, caster etc will all also affect it

 

[MarcoM]

Thanks @Scaff , looking into it...

 

[kikie]

Its kind of the same thing, as soon as you turn the wheel the tyre starts to deform (and wants to go back to how it was) which is why as you turn the direction of the physical wheel and the direction of travel start to get out of line with each other (as the contact patch is deformed).

I feel kind of smart now amongst smart people.

 

[cjr3559]

Played some more today, and throw me in the camp that feel there’s too much darkness and rain in the career mode. The game is teetering on becoming a grind. Maybe it’s the heavy default wheel settings too. Will need to lighten them up next time.

 

[BeardedWolf]

How can you detect understeer and oversteer without FFB?

FFB isn't just the road surface, I mean one of the values that DR2.0 has for FFB is Self Aligning Torque, which is literally the singl ebiggest way a tyre communicates understeer and oversteer to you as a driver (in sims and reality).

View attachment 804476

I mean, in Gran Turismo 1 and 2, there was no FFB, but I could still feel if a car had heavy steering or was super loose through the steering input. If I moved a joystick in one direction and the car either snapped in that direction or didn't turn as fast, I could discern how the car felt. Again, FFB is nice, I don't think it's necessary.

You guys are right, good FFB is perhaps only a nice to have. However unfortunately for me the dull and immersion lacking experience that I've found DR2 to be when using a wheel doesn't really encourage me to play it, and I'm not going to waste time on a game where I'm not feeling immersed.

I'm really glad you guy's are enjoying it, but for me, eye candy aside, it feels like a big step back in the rally genre as a whole.

I will say that it's damned good fun with a gamepad, but therein lies the rub - if a driving game which is classed as a sim feels more immersive and plays better on a gamepad than it does with a FFB wheel then there's something very wrong IMO.

Yeah, I feel ya. Personally, though, I kind of like having a Sim that's better with a Gamepad considering all the "Sims" out there that REQUIRE you to have like a $400 racing wheel in order to actually win.

 

[kikie]

The graphics look better than ACC, so far. ACC isn't finished yet but DR 2.0 looks amazingly good.

I am actually happy I bought the game.

 

[Scaff]

Hmm, that sounds a bit too simple but I'm not an expert in vehicle dynamics.
Isn't the geometry of the front suspension the biggest reason the wheels always want to point in the direction the car travels? The caster effect?

That's a very simply way of explaining it, and it still one of the biggest facto

I mean, in Gran Turismo 1 and 2, there was no FFB, but I could still feel if a car had heavy steering or was super loose through the steering input. If I moved a joystick in one direction and the car either snapped in that direction or didn't turn as fast, I could discern how the car felt. Again, FFB is nice, I don't think it's necessary.



Yeah, I feel ya. Personally, though, I kind of like having a Sim that's better with a Gamepad considering all the "Sims" out there that REQUIRE you to have like a $400 racing wheel in order to actually win.

Have you tried to drive with a wheel with the FFB turned off?

Input filtering on a controller and a wheel with zero FFB are totally different things, that's aside from the fact that FFB steering weight is a real thing.

 

[BeardedWolf]

Look, I'm just saying bad FFB isn't a deal breaker for me. But...that's my opinion.

 

[Bigbazz]

Look, I'm just saying bad FFB isn't a deal breaker for me. But...that's my opinion.

To be fair I agree, I can actually drive pretty fast without any FFB, you can just use visual cues within games and muscle memory. Good FFB adds to consistency because it lets you react based on more information but for sure you can do without it, I can at least. I did one of the dailies yesterday, I was 44th overall and my FFB was practically turned off and also no co-driver as I was listening to a podcast.

It can be done for sure, but I prefer FFB as I feel like I'm in the zone and can predict the car more, more connected.

 

[Slapped]

Look, I'm just saying bad FFB isn't a deal breaker for me. But...that's my opinion.

I remember playing GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, CMR and CMR2 with the respective dual shock controllers and it was great, and yes you really did sense the weight of the cars by the way that they moved. However having experienced good FFB on even a low end wheel I find very difficult to go back and not feel like I'm missing a lot.

Good FFB is more than just the icing on the cake for me - it's the bit that convinces me that I'm driving, and not just playing a video game.

 

[rich m]

A disasvantage of always online career... had my ps4 in rest mode last night and it seems there has been a ps4 firmware update this morning, so it won’t let me continue the rallycross championship (i was at the semi final stage). Not the end of the world, granted, but a bit of a pain in the arse.

Plus i’ll have to wait unil the update has downloded before i can start career again. I know i can still play freeplay, but i want to earn credits.

 

[kikie]

What is:

assist > Time Control Braking?

 

[MarcoM]

Brake help

 

[rich m]

Has anyone noticed that the group A Evo has a digital rev counter on the righ hand side of the daahboard? In front of the co driver...

I’m assuming it’s meant to be like that, never noticed it before lol

 

[KK78]

What is:

assist > Time Control Braking?

I think it helps make sure you stop at the steward at the end of a stage

 

[Deadheadbill]

I think it helps make sure you stop at the steward at the end of a stage

This. It determines how much assistance the game gives you to keep you from killing the steward. I have found it fun to leave it at 5 and barrel straight for the steward. Haven't been able to hit him yet.

 

[KK78]

This. It determines how much assistance the game gives you to keep you from killing the steward. I have found it fun to leave it at 5 and barrel straight for the steward. Haven't been able to hit him yet.

He is so pedantic, I stop 30 centimetres in front of him and he still beckons me to come closer, I wonder what happens if you hit him at speed

 

[kembro]

Interesting to see what others are using for FFB settings currently. I've just had another play and ended up with these, for today. Best I've found, so far.

 

[bogani]

Has anyone noticed that the group A Evo has a digital rev counter on the righ hand side of the daahboard? In front of the co driver...

I’m assuming it’s meant to be like that, never noticed it before lol

Yep, that is how it was in Mäkinen's car

 

[fernandito]

I think Sainz's '95 Escort Cosworth had also digital rev?

 

[R9NALD9]

You guys are right, good FFB is perhaps only a nice to have. However unfortunately for me the dull and immersion lacking experience that I've found DR2 to be when using a wheel doesn't really encourage me to play it, and I'm not going to waste time on a game where I'm not feeling immersed.

I'm really glad you guy's are enjoying it, but for me, eye candy aside, it feels like a big step back in the rally genre as a whole.

I will say that it's damned good fun with a gamepad, but therein lies the rub - if a driving game which is classed as a sim feels more immersive and plays better on a gamepad than it does with a FFB wheel then there's something very wrong IMO.

I enjoy the game for sure but as far as immersion goes I fully agree. The actual driving of the car is fun but I've only been playing a rally a night and have only done a single rallycross championship and rally championship (6 rally 4 stages each).

My difficulty moved up to clubman for both.

That said after winning my rally championship and saw the very average winning scene. I asked myself why do another one? It will all just repeat itself...and talking about repeat itself. The 4 stages already had me scratching my head how many sections are duplicated across the stages, sometimes in reverse sometimes not. I also saw that the next championship is 6 rallies with 6 stages each which immediately made me go "omf how bad is the stage duplication going to be now".

I get that any racing game the purpose is just to win championships and nothing more. But so far for me Dirt 2.0 lacks personality and I didn't get any wow moment for winning anything. Even when playing GT Sport I had a bigger sense of achievement winning a gold trophy. I just didn't get it here.

I'm also seriously considering waiting for all the additional DLC rallies to be added as I seriously don't want to repeat the same 6 rallies over and over again...this is on me as I should've done research beforehand.

Secretly excited for WRC 8 in September and actually considering grabbing WRC 7 on sale in the meantime. Again I'll be aiming to win a meaningless championship just like Dirt...but due to the licenses and from what I can gather a much higher sense of immersion it will mean more.

 

[fernandito]

Secretly excited for WRC 8 in September

I'd like to say the same after so many years of witnessing its real baaad bad physics, and I'm afraid wrc8 will not make any difference in that the most important area.

wrc7 track design is the best in this awful modern era of rally games. You may see it for yourself, but the problem continues to be the handling. This is the thing with these modern wrc games.

 

[R9NALD9]

I'd like to say the same after so many years of witnessing its real baaad bad physics, and I'm afraid wrc8 will not make any difference in that the most important area.

wrc7 track design is the best in this awful modern era of rally games. You may see it for yourself, but the problem continues to be the handling. This is the thing with these modern wrc games.

Let's hope man. When they revealed the game they said they revamped the physics so let's hope.

 

[kikie]

I think it helps make sure you stop at the steward at the end of a stage

Thanks

I have found it fun to leave it at 5 and barrel straight for the steward. Haven't been able to hit him yet.

Maybe you have to set it to 0?

 

[Brend]

It really is impressive how Codies still can't get human models or animations right. The driver and co-driver move like they're from the PS2 era.

On the FFB subject. For me, there really is something a miss. You play something as sensational as Assetto CC and feel everything in incredible detail. Then, you play 2.0 and it takes a write-off to feel anything?! Something is up, shocked if its working as Codies intended.

 

[GTMajarcus]

On the FFB subject. For me, there really is something a miss. You play something as sensational as Assetto CC and feel everything in incredible detail. Then, you play 2.0 and it takes a write-off to feel anything?! Something is up, shocked if its working as Codies intended.

I agree, something doesn’t add up. Beautiful game otherwise, but I don’t get why the road feel FFB is off. Dirt Rally had great FFB and so did F1 2017 and 2018. You could feel curbs easily in those games for instance, and they were both made by Codies.

 

[doblocruiser]

Just seen on the Codies forum that the new DLC content won't be integrated in the career.

 

[SPhilli911]

Playing last night the "connect to RaceNet" load time was taking so long I couldn't continue playing out of frustration. I'm talking 1 minute or more each time I entered My Team, My Garage, car purchase menu, completed a race or event, and seemingly everything I clicked on. The connection even failed after completing community events.

That was very unusual for me (RaceNet's been mostly reliable) and my internet connection is typically very fast, so I can't say for sure it was on my end or the game's, but either way, it's a good reason to be against the "always connected" BS. (playing on PS4)