Do GT7 cars and tracks really take that long to make?

See, here is where the problem is. GT was never "for the fans". It was a game Kaz wanted to make and share with the world.
You either like his vision or you don't. PD does not owe us anything.
This.
Gran Turismo is and always has been Kaz’s game, and probably will be until he decides to retire. Sure, he can’t just do whatever he wants, but I’ll never understand the mindset that any studios or developers owe the fans anything other than what is advertised or promised. The notion that everything has to be done according to popular vote of the fan base or customers is just foolish unless a company decides and states that is how they will operate, and if they do, best of luck to them! If there are certain/specific promises made, they should be upheld though.

EDIT: fixed typos.
 
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I said it before and I say it again. You put months and thousands of man hours to create tracks and then use them for one career event? That what they need to look for not just add useless cars(no events for them) and tracks...
 
I will not argue against that.
I believe that's why Kaz/PD responded to the review bombing... His actions put the money in jeopardy, they took a massive blow to their reputation that may impact GT8 sales to a degree. I know for a fact that I will NOT preorder GT8 and that I will be waiting a substantial after release to get a feel for what the game truly is.
 
I believe that's why Kaz/PD responded to the review bombing... His actions put the money in jeopardy, they took a massive blow to their reputation that may impact GT8 sales to a degree. I know for a fact that I will NOT preorder GT8 and that I will be waiting a substantial after release to get a feel for what the game truly is.
Yeah, I told myself that for GTSport and GT7 and I still preordered them. I had no intentions of playing GTSport once I heard it was online racing only because I was not interested in that.....I guess I couldn't help myself.
 
Fake tracks I guess they could pull out of their a in one drinking session, because it doesn't matter as all fake tracks are crap.
Well i'm sure who was ever behind the pen with "Trial Mountain" might have a little something to say about that..

I could (& do) run grooves in that track!.. The scenery, the layout, the time it takes to run.. perfect!


NW.
 
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Well i'm sure who was ever behind the pen with "Trial Mountain" might have a little something to say about that..

I could (& do) run grooves in that track!.. The scenery, the layout, the time it takes to run.. perfect!


NW.

Don't worry about them, that kind of take isn't even worth responding to, They were "officially done with GT7" all the way back in August last year... yet here we are. If there was a track argument worth debating, it'd be another story but as it stands... yeah, don't worry about it. Trial Mountain is still very good and a very pretty track that should be real.
 
Don't worry about them, that kind of take isn't even worth responding to, They were "officially done with GT7" all the way back in August last year... yet here we are. If there was a track argument worth debating, it'd be another story but as it stands... yeah, don't worry about it. Trial Mountain is still very good and a very pretty track that should be real.
I WAS officially done, until they fixed that bit. People voicing opinions gets people talking and listening. I can be done or as undone as much as i see fit thanks. It's not your call or pigeon hole attempt to make.

Anyway fake tracks, I see right through you. None of the fake tracks adhere to FIA regulations to varying counts, so they're not even realistic fantasy, they're schoolboy fantasy at best, because irl they would never and could never exist. So in a "sim" their point is...? Oh yeah cheap content, because as we know, PD don't respect their customers and rather than put in the effort and expense (from their vast profits) into a real track, they fill you with gunk. HTH
 
I WAS officially done, until they fixed that bit. People voicing opinions gets people talking and listening. I can be done or as undone as much as i see fit thanks. It's not your call or pigeon hole attempt to make.

Anyway fake tracks, I see right through you. None of the fake tracks adhere to FIA regulations to varying counts, so they're not even realistic fantasy, they're schoolboy fantasy at best, because irl they would never and could never exist. So in a "sim" their point is...? Oh yeah cheap content, because as we know, PD don't respect their customers and rather than put in the effort and expense (from their vast profits) into a real track, they fill you with gunk. HTH
Why do they need to adhere to FIA regulations? What do you think Gran Turismo is? Where do you think we are?
 
I WAS officially done, until they fixed that bit. People voicing opinions gets people talking and listening. I can be done or as undone as much as i see fit thanks. It's not your call or pigeon hole attempt to make.

Anyway fake tracks, I see right through you. None of the fake tracks adhere to FIA regulations to varying counts, so they're not even realistic fantasy, they're schoolboy fantasy at best, because irl they would never and could never exist. So in a "sim" their point is...? Oh yeah cheap content, because as we know, PD don't respect their customers and rather than put in the effort and expense (from their vast profits) into a real track, they fill you with gunk. HTH

:lol:

I can't determine if you've never played another Gran Turismo before or if you're so attached to the idea of GT7 being a simulator you feel insulted at the reminder it is a video game with a long history of using fictional tracks.

It's not as if the first game of the franchise was 100% fictional tracks, or anything— oh wait, it is. And they returned in every sequel since, besides GT Sport — yknow, that one game where FIA regulations actually meant something. There would have been no GT Sport or GT7 if it hadn't been for what the fictional tracks brought to the table.

And you know what's funny about GT Sport? Six circuits based on the Shutoko Expressway, which I assure you are not FIA graded and never will in a million years, but is absolutely in the tradition that tracks like Special Stage Route 5 set back in GT1, to say nothing of the importance of cars and the Tokyo expressways in Japanese car culture in general, but I digress.
Besides the highway tracks, GT Sport also had 15 totally fictional layouts. Sainte Croix? Dragon Trail? The Pocono-like Blue Moon? Fisherman's Ranch? All fictional. I guess the FIA had no problems with that either, but hey, according to your eminent opinion, all fake tracks are crap, right?

Chill out a little bit, yeah? It's a video game, not a high-stakes real-life racing career. I don't particularly care about your on-and-off relationship with GT7, but the least you could do is not act like a wannabe. And maybe try the older games in the franchise, maybe you'll have this mythical thing called fun on the way.
 
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You're right, they don't and people should vote with their wallets if they don't like it.
I wish that would be simple as that, especially when the devs (or better the director) promises to improve/fix things "in a future update".
(I love some things and absolutely hate other things about gt7, how do I vote? ._.)

You won’t find FIA grading at Mount Panorama and that’s a real circuit…
It's a grade 3 circuit (expired 2021)
 
Chill out a little bit, yeah? It's a video game, not a high-stakes real-life racing career. I don't particularly care about your on-and-off relationship with GT7, but the least you could do is not act like a wannabe. And maybe try the older games in the franchise, maybe you'll have this mythical thing called fun on the way.
Indeed!

Nike-One-22.jpg


NW.
 
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The thing about early versions of GT (I played GT1 - 4) was they wouldn't have had the budget or seriousness to have to worry about real tracks iirc every track in GT1 was fictional. A "filler" was fine. Games were not serious and nor were the prices or investment in things like wheels and rigs, so seriousness didn't matter. Now players can be expected be serious and spend £1,000s on a setup. A bit of reciprocation and respect would be nice.

Now they have a massive budget and team. With profits PD would seemingly rather horde instead of feed some of it back to the people that make their profits. They want to host serious ESports but on daft unrealistic tracks with dodgy or irl dangerous sections with daft track limits, kerbs, run offs, trackside furniture etc. Regs make realism.

Everyone has evolved with the times except PD.
 
They want to host serious ESports but on daft unrealistic tracks with dodgy or irl dangerous sections with daft track limits, kerbs, run offs, trackside furniture etc.
You should see WRC Esports...
Everyone has evolved with the times except PD.
And Turn10, which has been demonstrating the new Forza Motorsport extensively on the fictional Maple Valley circuit. I'm quite sure we'll see something from GTRevival on fictional tracks as well, as SMS hardly shied away from it before.

It's worth noting that Daytona has no FIA Grade either. Watkins Glen has previously been an FIA Grade 2 circuit, but that expired on June 8th 2022 so has never been FIA graded while in GT7 (June 20th 2022). And then there's Tsukuba...
 
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The thing about early versions of GT (I played GT1 - 4) was they wouldn't have had the budget or seriousness to have to worry about real tracks iirc every track in GT1 was fictional. A "filler" was fine.

If we were talking about the PS1 titles... sure... but Polyphony was already making Sony screw-you money by the time GT2 shipped. The best-selling PS1 game of all time is GT1. GT2 is third. (Final Fantasy VII was 2nd). They had "real" cash from that point; GT2000 and onwards. 4 in particular was the first to feature Le Mans, the Nordschleife, various layouts of the Fuji Speedway, the Twin Ring Motegi, and so on. Heck, the simple fact they secured Laguna Seca as early as GT2 and came pretty close to having Spa-Francorchamps is telling of what PD was willing to do early on.

Games were not serious and nor were the prices or investment in things like wheels and rigs, so seriousness didn't matter.

Oh no, you're one of those "serious game" people. Were you actually believing The Real Driving Simulator at face value, too? Is every other video game a toy in your eyes?

Sigh.

As early as GT1, Gran Turismo has been called a simulator. There was nothing like it on the platform, and PC equivalents were for an even smaller audience. Games weren't """"not serious"""" before, they were video games still and they still are video games today. What changed are definitions. We categorize, sometimes wrongly and arbitrarily, every racing game into neat boxes like "arcade" and "simulation" and "simcade", but these are monikers that don't mean much.

Games we refer to as racing simulators are old. Some of the sim racers considered the greatest of all time are ancient titles. Many Papyrus titles, in particular. Their problem is being confined to the PC, and requiring beefy configurations for their era. "Seriousness" has always depended on the player, not what the games were.

What Gran Turismo did, and still does, is give the general public a taste of realistic driving while still being accessible enough you can play it with nothing more than the latest console and a controller.

Now players can be expected be serious and spend £1,000s on a setup. A bit of reciprocation and respect would be nice.

Flat out, no. By and large, from the point of view of who the audience GT7 is marketing to, that is completely false. Besides the fact it's asinine to expect most of the playerbase on a PlayStation game to spend VR headset moolah, that's never what Gran Turismo was about.

Yes, the most serious drivers will spend the money on the rigs and equipment to drive better, but Gran Turismo 7 remains a game that is designed around the PS4 and PS5 controllers. Yes, these consoles have official wheel and pedal setups, and yes, there are official simracing rigs that run GT instead of a PC-based racer. But these things are for a tiny percentage of the actual player base.

This is still a mass-market. mass-audience, mass-appeal video game in a genre that doesn't draw Call of Duty audiences. GT, like Forza, in fact, needs every single thing it can to be as appealing to as many people as possible, because it's still a product that needs to make money.

If controller support had been an afterthought (i.e., as it is on many PC sims), GT7 wouldn't nearly be the accessible title that it is. It is those games that expect you to bring a wheel; any other input method, even if it works, will be very unpleasant until and unless you spend considerable time tweaking it to your liking.

Appealing to extreme hardcore racing nerds like you and I is not the point; it's just a small part of the strategy to draw as many players as possible.

Now they have a massive budget and team. With profits PD would seemingly rather horde instead of feed some of it back to the people that make their profits.

Gamer discovers video games are products that need to make a profit, just like everything else in the world we live in. Stay tuned, we'll see if they figure it out...

They want to host serious ESports but on daft unrealistic tracks with dodgy or irl dangerous sections with daft track limits, kerbs, run offs, trackside furniture etc. Regs make realism.

Everyone has evolved with the times except PD.

:lol: You're still going on with that... Yeah, I'm just going to defer to Famine's comment. Never check out the WRC scene if what you can find in GT7 runs you up the wall.

Or do, actually. Please do. Maybe you'll open your eyes eventually. Get your head out of the "regs" and the realism obsession for five seconds and you might realize this wasn't the point to begin with, especially in a video game that isn't making eSports its entire focus. GT Sport did that, but I already said my piece on GT Sport.
It'll never be perfect. There isn't a perfect racing game. The "everyone" you speak of either all showcase fictional tracks in their games, or have problems of their own. There isn't an El Dorado of realism and regulations.
 
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Then there's the rather obvious fact that the larger a games development budget, the more neccessary that it needs to cater for a more mainstream mass audience over niche die hards as it has those bigger development costs to recoup.
 
I don't work at Polyphony, I'm not privy to their development workflows or the way they do things. Everything I've stated is generalities that are fairly obvious if you simply stop and think about it.

If you have the least amount of experience working in any industry where tasks are completed by teams, you surely understand the concept of work-hours and how it doesn't work on a linear time scale. When Kaz said "It takes 270 days to make a car" he almost certainly did not literally mean the entire team works on a single car, one by one, until it's done, then they move on to the next; because once again, dev teams are groups of people that work on multiple things at once.

It's much, much, much more likely he meant 270 days worth of work-hours. This figure can be split and distributed between every team (and as @tankuroded mentioned, every subcontractor; it definitely helps not to keep everything in-house) to keep development times within an acceptable time frame.

It is a generality, but the one generality I'll mention is that the more detailed and the more accurately an asset has to replicate a real-life equivalent, the longer it takes to develop from scratch. It also doesn't account for anything they do to save time or work more efficiently (e.g., it's entirely possible Polys already has access to plenty of reference data and figures so they don't actually start from complete scratch on every single car).

Honestly, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter what my credentials are or what the exact details are. Even the 270-day figure is pretty meaningless at the end of the day. Even if I could give you a complete breakdown of how much time each person spends on what particular tasks, I doubt you will find the answer satisfying.

You came in with this thread explaining you are a hobbyist who doesn't work in game development and you further made the assumption that the realistic burgers took some of the fun you expected away. It's fair to question the decisions Polys has made for GT7 but it's complete absurdity to assume the reason is "If only they spent less time modeling X and more time making Y or working on Z" and then demand precise hour counts to support an argument that already falls flat on its face.

Simply put, it doesn't work that way.
Yes I'm sorry to say I had assumed you had zero experience in game development, since your original post reflected as much, but thank you for confirming this since it provides better context. I think it is important to breakdown where your "generalisations" are highly inaccurate because it is easy for other players to be ignorant of this and make similar mistakes.

For your benefit, the "burger and ambulance reference" was a joke poking fun at the idea of the trade offs required in development when there is an obsession with realism, this clearly went over your head, someone with more knowledge on the topic would've got it. The good news is that this video covers this topic quite well at a level you should hopefully be able to understand:



In case even further clarity is required: game development is all about trade offs, in fact most creative projects are. You have a finite amount of time to complete a finished product and the resources invested need to be enough to meet that timeline, otherwise you will face additional costs or a cancelled project/game. Of course there are some tasks within the entire process that can be done concurrently, but there is a lot of dependency as well. For example, the 3D assets that are modelled (eg. a car, or track) need to get textured, then rigged and/or animated, then they need to have the scripting added and be tested etc etc. The majority of these steps has a separate team of specialists dedicated to it, you don't have individuals working across multiple specialisations, especially in large studios. The only case where this is an exception is in tiny indie studios that cannot afford specialists and so rely on generalists instead.

Each individual can multi task yes, but everything they work on has impact on everyone else down the chain. For example, if one of these steps in the process takes longer or shorter it'll obviously have a ripple affect and change the timeline. When the internal team cannot handle the expected output, some of the work can be outsourced, if there is the funding for it. It is possible for the programming teams to use placeholders while the final assets are being finalised, but ultimately yes they will need to wait for the final assets to be finished so that they can do their part for the final game. So surprise surprise, the time spent on completing an asset (eg. car or track) will affect the work of the other teams if they still want to meet the existing deadline for launch. Therefore as I stated; decisions need to be made on where time is invested:

Eg 1. a reasonable amount of time is allocated to game design, asset creation, programming etc = a quality product across the board (this doesn't mean it will sell, but the quality is there)

Eg 2. an unreasonable amount of time is allocated to asset creation affecting the time available for everything else = insane quality assets (such as GT7 cars), bad game design (where do I even start), bad programming (such as racing AI)

Without wasting too much more of my time educating you; the notion that players have no voice when it comes to games is also inaccurate (except in the case of GT7). Good developers invest their time in researching their player base, the market, possible competitors etc. They invite players to provide feedback and testing during development, and post launch depending on their support model for the game. When a game falls over or creates backlash, obviously a developer (even as bad as PD) notices this and takes note to not make the same mistake next time.

It's all well and good that you don't think the development side of games matters or the amount of time required to develop certain assets, but you shouldn't throw around your misinformed generalisations as facts, because it makes other players as ignorant of the process as you. This thread is about game development, if that isn't your cup of tea or you don't actually have any experience or relevant insight to share, then you're welcome to contribute to a thread about how amazing the GT7 burgers and ambulance is, since that is what you have clearly spent the most time in your posts talking about. Alternatively feel free to share some more of your "generalities" just know that anyone with even some idea of what actually happens in game development will only think you're hilarious :D
 
For your benefit, the "burger and ambulance reference" was a joke poking fun at the idea of the trade offs required in development when there is an obsession with realism, this clearly went over your head, someone with more knowledge on the topic would've got it.

"You don't get it, I was just joking."

Yeah, right. Sure wasn't a joke until you decided it was now.

Well, casting aside your condescending attitude, since you were just joking and it went over my head, I choose not to take anything you say seriously and I won't read or respond to you any further. How about it?

Have a good day.
 
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Wow! Source?

...there are zero new real GT3 Models in GT7 from GTSport, just a three Evo Versions of existing cars. Ferrari did already couple of new generations (488, 296) and BMW (M4), McLaren (720S) and others (Porsche with their new 992 Verizon of the 911 GT3-R)...

So we'll, it still takes longer to make a real GT3 Car compare to the virtual one, but PD just don't do it at all, I think that's the problem. I totally stopped playing GT7 because I paid more than 80 bucks for a game with the same old cars like six years ago... Running with the exact same GT3 cars.

And stop always arguing that they don't care too much about GT3, when most of the races with good payouts and championships are GT3 (Spa 24h for example, the GT Championship these 5 races, and other 730 or 800 pp races) so that's still the main racing category (just like in the real world with multiple championships changed to strict GT3 category).

And also: they are NOT focused on eSports because they been totally dropped from the official eSports Events by FIA (they replaced GT7 with a game that is 4 years older but got all newer GT3 cars: ACC)!!!

It's getting even worse that FIA let the door open for GT7 for a comeback, if they fix some major issues like the mentioned qualifying system, strict and more realistic penalties, and especially newer GT3 cars. All that was back in late 2022, GT7 made nowhere near a comeback for the official FIA eSports Series.

It's embarrassing for PD and Sony to be outclassed by a smaller development team with a way smaller budged and a 4 year older game...

One year later, NOTHING of these issues been fixed. Not even one. Still the same old GT3 cars, still the same old road cars and no new endurance races or qualifications for offline races. Penalty system is still unchanged...

AI is that bad, the only family member who enjoys that game is my 9 year old son. But even he is getting bored recently, because it's just odd to watch real racing and get back to this game with 10 year older GT3 cars... And he still can't even choose a single Bentley or Koenigsegg, nor Rolls Royce, even if it's really big in the intro of the game because it's a big part of car history...

So, the only thing left why they do it like this is, they earn enough money with y'all. It seems to work to do it like this because a hell lot of players just buy the cars for real money, because they don't want to do Spa24h again and again or the lame 5 race championship. Again, all that races are GT3 made by PD itself.

It's a fact that GT7 got the most outdated car list of all games released during the last couple of years.

But why they should change something, they want the money and that's exactly what they got.
 
It's fascinating that a thread with 115 replies and 6K views to date, which asks a very clear question about insight into game development, only actually has one answer that provides any insight into the game development :) There is one other that makes attempts at a very surface level with details that can easily be found on Wikipedia with minimal effort. This all despite that with each of my replies I have made attempts to steer things back on track.

Every other game forum I have interacted with there are always players interested in the game development side of their favourite games. Some for example go on to be modders and some of the best modders even get hired to be developers. I understand GT7 isn't a PC game, but surely you understand my point.

The fact that so many GT7 players throw phrases around like "most realistic cars", "most realistic tracks", "the cars are all laser scanned", "tracks laser scanned, so detailed", "everything is laser scanned, even the burgers" (sorry that's my contribution :D )... and yet when you ask why are they "so realistic" does anyone have any insight into the process/why it takes this long; the response is: "most realistic cars", "most realistic tracks", "everything is laser scanned..." :boggled: .... Yes you've said that already, I'm not asking to be brainwashed further I'm asking for further insight, because the game development side of games interests me.

It is completely fine if nobody here actually knows, I would've settled for that, but as I stated previously you really shouldn't be spending your weekends arguing on a forum to begin with, but secondly arguing about things not actually relevant to the thread. Isn't that a given?

I'm still open to anyone else making an attempt because as mentioned I feel having this kind of knowledge is of great value to any player base or gaming community. However if there is indeed no more insight available I'm also happy to take my question to the game dev community instead, I just hoped someone here would know. Cheers :cheers:
 
Yeah, at this point I’d say the answers you’re actually looking for will only come from those working for PD or maybe another similar company. There has been plenty of insight and additional info given in this thread, which you specifically asked for in paragraph 1 of your initial post, but it’s either not good enough for you, because it’s at a high level, or not what you were expecting, and apparently nothing short of what comes directly from PD employees or actual developers working on current similar games will be. PD employees will be the only ones able to give you detailed answers and specific explanations you’re seeking about GT7 development. Outside of former PD employees/contractors, or educated guesses from rival companies, no one will be able to provide the level of detail and information you really want.

Caution should be taken when talking to employees of other companies though as they likely don’t have the same processes, tools, systems etc. that PD has/uses, so they won’t really be able to answer your question of ‘does it really take PD that long to make cars and tracks for GT7?’. The conversation then becomes “I like the way X company does it because it seems better/faster to me so PD should do it that way” which has actually already started in your initial post paragraphs 3 and 4.

As for your final question in paragraph 5 of your initial post, that is 100% personal opinion and preference. For some it is yes, for others it is no. I think you’re looking for those who have the same opinion on this as you, or possibly oddly wanting/expecting everyone here to have the same in which you do on this.

For most people who play video games there is little to no value, especially great value in understanding with great level of detail how the game is made. For those that are interested in this, it can be, but for the average player of a video game looking to relax and have fun playing a game, they couldn’t care less about the specifics of how exactly they do everything and how long it should take or what company has the most efficient process etc.

Honestly, it sounds like you don’t understand the purpose or intent of a gaming forum, which this is. This isn’t a forum dedicated to professional game developers and detailed conversations of that industry that would explain thoroughly how they do things, so it’s weird you make the comments that you did in your last post about there not being any PD employees or racing game developers on these forums to give you the answers you want. It seems you already know that’s where you should have gone in the first place, a forum dedicated to game developers, not one dedicated to people who want to discuss playing the game and share tips and tricks, screenshots, strategies, etc.
 
I'm still open to anyone else making an attempt

My two cents...

Because they're really detailed, and laser scanned.

<shrug emoji>

Perhaps if you, using your hobbyist knowledge, laid out a tentative explanation as to how long you think it should take, people could make suggestions as to where that might be right or wrong or perhaps point out things that you hadn't considered, rather than expecting them to lay it all out for you.

I'm not trying to be facetious, I get it, it is an interesting question, but at the end of the day it is what it is, I'm not sure if understanding why it is will alleviate the understandable torment that we're no longer in an era where 4 figure car counts are easy to achieve.
 
I think you’re looking for those who have the same opinion on this as you, or possibly oddly wanting/expecting everyone here to have the same in which you do on this.

That is a hell of an understatement...


For most people who play video games there is little to no value, especially great value in understanding with great level of detail how the game is made. For those that are interested in this, it can be, but for the average player of a video game looking to relax and have fun playing a game, they couldn’t care less about the specifics of how exactly they do everything and how long it should take or what company has the most efficient process etc.

Honestly, it sounds like you don’t understand the purpose or intent of a gaming forum, which this is. This isn’t a forum dedicated to professional game developers and detailed conversations of that industry that would explain thoroughly how they do things, so it’s weird you make the comments that you did in your last post about there not being any PD employees or racing game developers on these forums to give you the answers you want. It seems you already know that’s where you should have gone in the first place, a forum dedicated to game developers, not one dedicated to people who want to discuss playing the game and share tips and tricks, screenshots, strategies, etc.

Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but in all honesty, even if any of us here could get a hold of anybody working at PD, I don't think they would be willing to divulge these sorts of details. Internal workflows, development processes, and anything that hints at how intellectual property is managed internally are usually pretty well-guarded secrets shielded by NDAs.

It's exceptionally rare to have developers explain their complete thought processes, to begin with. The last time I remember anybody doing that with that kind of thorough details is probably Jon Burton of Travellers Tales. He is the person who started the GameHut YouTube channel to reveal many of the secrets and coding tricks he and his team employed to make some very technically advanced games happen in their time. And that's for games in the 90s. Maybe from time to time you'll have a specific developer share insights on smaller details. Very recently, I found a YouTube comment (@blackopsrocks) by the person in charge of modeling and rigging for Black, the PS2 game, which was posted in response to a 29-minute fan documentary on the subject. These types of comments are rare, interesting, definitely valuable... and usually the most we get.

Rarely do we have full breakdowns or documentaries explaining why X took Y time to do. When we do, it's usually because the companies involved no longer exist, or it comes directly from the source. That's the main reason why I said it doesn't actually matter what my credentials are. If I or anyone else here had that kind of information to begin with, what's the guarantee we could even talk about it? It's unsatisfying, but that's just how it is. It takes that long because it takes that long. We can only work with the information we have as outsiders, and insiders have plenty of contractual reasons not to reveal the secrets.

I've made my attempts with my hobbyist knowledge and relationships with people that do work in the industry to provide a few generalities and educated guesses, things that I imagined weren't particularly difficult to understand since it's not insider information. We could have left it at "Sorry, that's not enough, I need to know more from the people who work there." But I guess the OP expected too much and decided disrespect was an acceptable response when they didn't get what they wanted.
 
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