Do we need a track editor?

[the Interceptor]

I just don't understand how you expect YOUR tracks to stand out online (if that's even possible). You're banking on the idea that people will come across your track and suddenly want to race on it? I'd fear that if I made a cool track that I'd be the only one riding it, or maybe with a buddy or two. (Note: If there is a track editor, hell, that's awesome! I just hope it doesn't come before weather and other things).

With a livery editor, the whole world will see your ride! I cannot imagine how many folks would love to create unique looks for their rides. There is a reason it's a real-life hobby and passion for many. I can see a 60 year old painting a 1959 Chevrolet Impala and at the same time I can see a 15 year old customizing a 2009 Lamborghini Reventón. That's beautiful; seeing people from two different eras customizing popular cars of their times.

...And for that very reason in red: I firmly believe Livery editor> Track editor. Gran Turismo: Connecting people of all ages.

So let's assume there is someone out there who is very capable of creating tracks. Say he is going to rebuild Bathurst - the famous Australian track which probably won't be in the game, and put it up for download. Some people will test-drive this track, notice that it's very accurate and spread the word on the internet. More people will download this track, there probably will even be an open-source-ish feature, so people can improve the details even further. So what we'll end up with is a possibility to have pretty much any track anybody ever wanted to race on, may they be real life tracks or fictional tracks from previous GTs, or even from other games.

I understand the appeal of customizing cars, but I just don't see how that would beat this.

 

[Zimmerd]

I don't need a track editor...
It would be a nice addition BUT...
If I get a track editor, but no Spa, no Monza, no other nice tracks I've been hoping for..
I'll be disappointed.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

So let's assume there is someone out there who is very capable of creating tracks. Say he is going to rebuild Bathurst - the famous Australian track which probably won't be in the game, and put it up for download. Some people will test-drive this track, notice that it's very accurate and spread the word on the internet. More people will download this track, there probably will even be an open-source-ish feature, so people can improve the details even further. So what we'll end up with is a possibility to have pretty much any track anybody ever wanted to race on, may they be real life tracks or fictional tracks from previous GTs, or even from other games.

I understand the appeal of customizing cars, but I just don't see how that would beat this.

PD can create tracks. Why would you want to create many real world tracks if they can for us? As for fictional tracks, I have no real gripe except for the sheer amount of garbage tracks that will be made. I can see its appeal but not before the appeal of seeing people customize rides from all eras.

With a livery editor, there's an endless number of options. And in the end, aren't the cars the stars of GT?

 

[the Interceptor]

PD can create tracks. Why would you want to create many real world tracks if they can for us?

Because chances are they won't do it. Not because they can't, but because there's no time/resources for that. I'm sure there will be some download content after the release of GT5, but they won't supply us with new tracks forever. So why not give us a "tool" so we can do our own stuff?

As for fictional tracks, I have no real gripe except for the sheer amount of garbage tracks that will be made. I can see its appeal but not before the appeal of seeing people customize rides from all eras.

With a livery editor, there's an endless number of options. And in the end, aren't the cars the stars of GT?

Sure, the cars are the stars of GT. But with so many games looking sooooooo good in the menus and then totally screwing up the actual driving experience, GT stands out as one of the few games where the latter meets the former in perfect harmony.

In the end, it's a matter of personal preference. For me personally, GT is great to look at, but mainly a driving simulator. Visuals add to the experience, but nothing more. I want to drive various cars on various tracks, and I want it to feel as real as possible. I know I will be happy with what they will offer me with GT5, but I would be even happier if they gave us a track editor, so we can broaden the experience even further.

 

[killanite]

PD can create tracks. Why would you want to create many real world tracks if they can for us? As for fictional tracks, I have no real gripe except for the sheer amount of garbage tracks that will be made. I can see its appeal but not before the appeal of seeing people customize rides from all eras.

With a livery editor, there's an endless number of options. And in the end, aren't the cars the stars of GT?

There are things called Licensing issues. Giving us freedom with a track editor allows every track to be recreated in the game free of charge (and even some interesting imaginery circuits). PD can't do that without throwing a whole bunch of development money (and time) away to get licenses.

and about the livery editor Sure you get an endless number of "LIVERY'S". Putting a livery on an F430 doesn't mean you've turned it into a racing F430, just means you've painted it different? and for what? the aesthetic value?
The cars are the stars of GT but having a livery editor doesn't mean you have more/better cars, it just means you have more colors for them. Having a track editor means you have unlimited tracks.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Because chances are they won't do it. Not because they can't, but because there's no time/resources for that. I'm sure there will be some download content, but they won't supply us with new tracks forever. So why not give us a "tool" so we can do our own stuff?

Sure, the cars are the stars of GT. But with so many games looking sooooooo good in the menus and then totally screwing up the actual driving experience, GT stands out as one of the few games where the latter meets the former in perfect harmony.

In the end, it's a matter of personal preference. For me personally, GT is great to look at, but mainly a driving simulator. I want to drive various cars on various tracks, and I want it to feel as real as possible. I know I will be happy with what they will offer me with GT5, but I would be even happier if they gave us a track editor, so we can improve the experience even further.

I do not see how the size of a blu ray disc could not support both of our desires. I want the two co-exist. I want to a customize a car and race it on a real-world track or fictional track. But I'd never want to sacrifice the ability to modify a car before the ability to modify a track. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Tomaz]

We will be able to make real tracks if some of them won't be included. Then I'll need blueprints!

 

[Seismica]

A track editor is not essential. By meaning if they can't make it good don't include it.

If it is a good track editor, which allows a range of texture/appearence options, allows you to customize the track surface and width, any gradient changes in the road, cross-over bridges must be input in some way, like the one on Suzuka, there are other circuits like that. If they could do that and make it useable on the PS3 and PC, then it would be the single greatest addition to the game, more than any number of cars, more than any livery editor etc.

As for the track editor vs Livery editor that people seem to be discussing, Livery editors may be useful, but you arn't creating new cars, you are only customising existing ones. Its the same for body customising and tuning, its still the same car. Adding new cars to the game with an 'editor' would not really be possible as the cars have to be tested for their handling characteristics and such in real life first. But a track editor, all that needs to be right is the circuit and track dimensions, and all the grass/gravel in the right place, so its much much simpler, and if it can be put into the game it would be so much more useful than a Livery Editor, although i would prefer it if we had both

Although from where i'm standing, both are looking unlikely, but thats to do with PD and Sony's habbit of keeping things quiet. If GT gets both of these it will be the best racing game ever made, no question. They have already got the physics near as good as the best PC sims, and they have a great basis for the game which is the old GT4 which had amazing gameplay and menus.

To sum up, not essential, but please i want it Any track you want can be potentially added to the game, it just depends whether those creative types among us enjoy making circuits

 

[bullie77]

As I've stated earlier on the other thread, I'd rather want them to put their efforts and development time on essential stuff to get the "real driving experience" more real than ever, than unnecessary stuff like rewinds, track editors, or real time weather dynamics...

All I want is:

1) Realistic physics
2) Tyre wear & engine/mechanic wear
3) Improved AI
4) Rain races

All other than this is welcome if (and only if) its development doesn't compromise the development of the above mentioned.

 

[Lucas]

The opportunity to enjoy driving on and learning the greatest and most famous racetracks around the world is vastly more important to me than adding "a vinyl to a Vette's hood".

Don't get me wrong, Jordan, but with people complaining about Forza 3's Nürburgring, it would be an extreme case of idiocy not complaining about terrible modeled real life tracks. They would dedicate their time to make fantasy tracks, where you can't go wrong.

Anyways, yaywalter. A livery editor in GT5 doesn't have to be more advanced than Forza's to be fun. 👍 Building a proper track editor, remember, will be a much harder thing.

 

[Lain]

Is this turning into another argument? Bottom line is that both livery editor and track editor would be damn good additions to the series. Everyone has an opinion on which of the two is more important, but it doesn't matter.

 

[Lucas]

I know they would be good additions. But I believe it's common sense that people will have an easier and less frustrating time adding vinyls to their cars instead of creating tracks out of nowhere. My opinion, though.

 

[Raitziger]

i have no passion for ruinning car looks with stickers. However creating new tracks have been allways very enjoyable to me ever since stunts

 

[Seismica]

I know they would be good additions. But I believe it's common sense that people will have an easier and less frustrating time adding vinyls to their cars instead of creating tracks out of nowhere. My opinion, though.

Well thats not down to opinion, that is true. Creating a track is much more complicated and more difficult than customising the appearance of a car.

Whilst a Livery editor would definetly be more fun, a decent track editor in the right hands means the circuit wishlist will become a reality, not just a big list of tracks that are unlikely to be in the game.

I think the livery editor would be more fun, but in the long run a track editor would add so much more to the games life. But as neither of these features has been confirmed yet we are still only specualting. If i had to choose, i would choose the Livery Editor, as the track editor i would not use, i would wait for others who want to use it and download their created tracks... Partly because i lack the skill to create accurate circuits and partly because the amount of work needed is daunting...

 

[SpawnBlack]

I dont think that its needed as for right now with what PD are doing for GT5, there may not enough time or any real need for it until GT6......not to mention the added memory needed to pull it off so that it does not interfere with game play and ie physics.

 

[Seismica]

I dont think that its needed as for right now with what PD are doing for GT5, there may not enough time or any real need for it until GT6......not to mention the added memory needed to pull it off so that it does not interfere with game play and ie physics.

I agree. If this questionable source is right, then i welcome a track editor. If it is wrong, i don't want PD to go out of their way to make one just to make a few people happy. I'm sure we could cope with the tracks they will be giving us. But it would be a good idea for GT6...

 

[SpawnBlack]

As I've stated earlier on the other thread, I'd rather want them to put their efforts and development time on essential stuff to get the "real driving experience" more real than ever, than unnecessary stuff like rewinds, track editors, or real time weather dynamics...

All I want is:

1) Realistic physics
2) Tyre wear & engine/mechanic wear
3) Improved AI
4) Rain races

I too would like to have wet wheather races also but having the weather changes in there would mak it more interesting to start on a dry track and then to have it Cloud over and start raining(online or offline) as this would make it more exciting. You never know they may have already put the vitals in the game as PD do watch what we say and want for GT5.

 

[bullie77]

As I've stated earlier on the other thread, I'd rather want them to put their efforts and development time on essential stuff to get the "real driving experience" more real than ever, than unnecessary stuff like rewinds, track editors, or real time weather dynamics...

All I want is:

1) Realistic physics
2) Tyre wear & engine/mechanic wear
3) Improved AI
4) Rain races

I too would like to have wet wheather races also but having the weather changes in there would mak it more interesting to start on a dry track and then to have it Cloud over and start raining(online or offline) as this would make it more exciting. You never know they may have already put the vitals in the game as PD do watch what we say and want for GT5.

I would go as far as that on my wishes as that but, in the event of that happening, it would also necessarily involve that we would have pit stops and tyre wear. Which I hope we do.

 

[tibiquera]

Features are always fine, but they don't make the bulk of the game, they only add to it. That's why no features are essential in a game. You can have all imaginable features in a game, but it doesn't mean the game is actually good.

About a track editor and livery editor, the track editor would be a good thing if people were able to re-create classic tracks, or use their creativity to show the world they're better than mr. Tilke. But if it isn't in the game, it's fine too because it's just a feature.

For the livery editor, people have the misconception that GT has to copy everything Forza does. That's wrong. Both games are different and are trying to achieve different things. When I play GT games I feel like I'm going to a car museum. This happens because of the way cars are portraited in the game. Having a livery editor would take that feeling away, because it would feel like going to a car museum and seeing cars full of stickers, which would be quite distasteful. There's nothing wrong with that feature, but I don't think it fits properly the vision of the GT series. I'd prefer them to concentrate on other aspects instead.

 

[pricey2003]

I would KILL for a track editor.

 

[the Interceptor]

Don't get me wrong, Jordan, but with people complaining about Forza 3's Nürburgring, it would be an extreme case of idiocy not complaining about terrible modeled real life tracks. They would dedicate their time to make fantasy tracks, where you can't go wrong.

There's a difference though: from Turn10 I expect good work, because they are professionals which offer me their product for money. A gamer who models a track in an editor will get heaps more credit from the community, because his scopes are worlds short in comparison.

Also, given the editor will have the option, a track can be modeled by more than one person. If they open-source tracks, the cracks of modeling can hone it until it's perfect.

 

[rsh]

A trackeditor would be a nice addition.
But only if you could do it indepth. In other words, when a track that I would make would or could be the PD quality.

If I could make a racetrack of my own hometown that would be very awsome, but how much time would it costs to make such a track and even a bigger question mark, how much space would a track take on my harddrive? (Altough I am planning to put 1 TB on my PS3 )

 

[FoolKiller]

I just don't understand how you expect YOUR tracks to stand out online (if that's even possible). You're banking on the idea that people will come across your track and suddenly want to race on it? I'd fear that if I made a cool track that I'd be the only one riding it, or maybe with a buddy or two.

Ask the LittleBigPlanet level designers that have their levels now as part of the Game of the Year edition. I can pull up the user created levels and sort them by top rated or new. The answer to your question is all in how the UI works for the community side of things.

Add on that many people get their levels tested by mentioning them on community forums. The LittleBigPlanet forums have their own review section for people to submit their levels for review and the best ones are often given a spotlight on the News page. Sometimes they even make it to the PlayStation Blog.

The ability for quality tracks to be noticed is already addressed in other games.




My personal opinion is that an editor would be cool so long as it doesn't prevent other things from being included. But as certain features are a matter of more than just time, If we don't have a livery editor, weather, day/night changes, etc but do have a track editor I doubt that they will be related.

 

[Jordan]

Don't get me wrong, Jordan, but with people complaining about Forza 3's Nürburgring, it would be an extreme case of idiocy not complaining about terrible modeled real life tracks. They would dedicate their time to make fantasy tracks, where you can't go wrong.

You don't think players, when critiquing a track, would be able to take into consideration the fact that anything user-generated was created with a limited set of provided tools? It would be absurd for someone to complain about a user's track lacking a bridge, for example, if there was no ability to create one in the editor. Of course, that's aside from the fact that cosmetic, track-side features are really just icing on the cake. Once again, I'll reference my experience with rFactor: many of its user-generated tracks are not perfect, but that doesn't stop them from being crazy-fun to drive on.

 

[TheCracker]

Features like livery or track editors add to the longevity of any game. Just look at how much time and effort many of our own members put into Photomode and Photomode competitions. A good feature like this can almost make the main game a sideshow.

Personally i'll be disappointed if GT5 has neither a livery editor or a track editor. I really want to give back some of my own creativity to a game series that's given me so much over the years.

 

[Lain]

The more I think about it, the more excited I get about the possibilities a track editor could create.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Features like livery or track editors add to the longevity of any game. Just look at how much time and effort many of our own members put into Photomode and Photomode competitions. A good feature like this can almost make the main game a sideshow.

Personally i'll be disappointed if GT5 has neither a livery editor or a track editor. I really want to give back some of my own creativity to a game series that's given me so much over the years.

That sums of what I feel. I may be in favor of a livery editor, but if GT5 accommodates both, then we are truly seeing an epic video game. At the point when GT5 has a livery editor, track editor, and a complete weather engine, we'll be pretty much stealing from PD (lol). $60.00 for all that is a crime. And I am willing to be the thief.

 

[daus26]

The more I think about it, the more excited I get about the possibilities a track editor could create.

I agree. Knowing LBP's concept of play, create, share, eventually there would more likely be some genius somewhere in the world that is very well capable of making a well-made track.

Just like LBP, some levels are just poor in design, but there are some that is just full of pure talent, even one that surpasses some of Media Molecule's levels!

With that said, perhaps one day, there is someone out there that may create tracks better than PD themselves. This feeling of excitement just makes me want to cringe.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I just don't understand how you expect YOUR tracks to stand out online (if that's even possible). You're banking on the idea that people will come across your track and suddenly want to race on it? I'd fear that if I made a cool track that I'd be the only one riding it, or maybe with a buddy or two. (Note: If there is a track editor, hell, that's awesome! I just hope it doesn't come before weather and other things).

I certainly don't expect MY tracks to stand out, since I suck at track editing. But I certainly expect the community to spawn some very good tracks, some even better than what PD made. In the PC community, some mods even turned commercial and some modders even turned into professional gamestudios (e.g. splash damage). That's the great thing about a community: the gems will pop up out of the mess all by themselves. You don't have to look for a thing yourself if you don't want to.

There is one thing that worries me though: on the pc developers usually release a full blown editor, while editors on consoles are usually watered down. IMO this will certainly impact the maximum amount of quality that can be achieved. I'd rather have no editor (and PD spend time on something else) than a crappy one.

 

[blue night]

There's other stuff that I would rather have but those other things haven't even been mentioned yet. A track editor on the other hand has been, so yes I think it needs it because without it GT5 looks like it's not going to bring anything new and innovative to the series so far.