Do we need PS4/ XBone already?

[mister dog]

I'm thinking a lot about this nowadays, mainly because of this picture:

Before when we bought a new console and invested hundreds of bucks, the results were worth it as graphically each generation made a huge jump (as you can see with Beethoven above), and games became more complex and original because of the extra power.

And whilst this is still the case (games will look better on PS4 and Xbone), the differences are less dramatic. At to that equation that we have a huge library of great games on PS3 and 360 already which sell cheap as the focus is on those shiny next gen consoles now, and you might wonder like myself if it is worth it to go next gen in 2015, or just focus on the collection we have now and make sure we finish those first.

I have probably 10 or so great games laying around (who are great both graphically and gameplay wise), that i started playing but i didn't even finish 30% of them due to time constraints, and there's loads more laying in the bargain shelve of the local game store that i haven't even bought yet ('the last of us' is only one example).

I think i'm gonna wait it out and focus on what i have, than having to invest 400+ for better eye candy. Benefits of this is when i eventually do make the switch in 2016-17, the consoles will be cheaper and i will have an extensive library of next gen games laying ready for me in those very same bargain shelves.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Whilst in terms of mesh complexity there isn't much of a notable difference you can definitely see the improvements texture and shader wise, normal maps are used more frequently to show off really fine details and the texture resolution on less important meshes is significantly better. So far lighting, shaders and texture quality is where the next gen games that I've played have seen the most improvement.

If I were you and I had a load of unfinished games sitting around I'd work my way through those then go for a next gen console, you might as well get TLOU Remastered on PS4.

(Went from PS3 to PS4)

 

[mister dog]

Whilst in terms of mesh complexity there isn't much of a notable difference you can definitely see the improvements texture and shader wise, normal maps are used more frequently to show off really fine details and the texture resolution on less important meshes is significantly better. So far lighting, shaders and texture quality is where the next gen games that I've played have seen the most improvement.

You're right, for example i'm playing FH2 on my 360 now and the Xbone version looks a lot prettier (road surfaces, lighting, weather). Thing is i'm finding the 360 version very pretty in it's own regard, and the gameplay matches it too, so my point being; is the 400 dollar investment worth it at this moment just for the sake of better eye candy?

If I were you and I had a load of unfinished games sitting around I'd work my way through those then go for a next gen console, you might aswell get TLOU Remastered on PS4.

That's my plan, but seeing i have a wife and kids which take up a lot of time, and there's so much games on my last gen consoles still, that will probably make it 2016- 2017 at the earliest

 

[sesselpupser]

Oh, I get it now. Your title is quite misleading, I thought you were asking if we thought we needed a PS5 already because the PS4 isn't a big enough jump from the PS3. The PS4/Xbox One are the current generation because they've been released, not the next generation.

Yes, the current generation was very much necessary, the Xbox 360 was holding everyone up with its DVD drive and the PS3's Cell architecture combined with the pitiful RAM it had was quite a mis-step. Now they're all using high capacity discs and x86 architecture with all that RAM, not only do games look better as mentioned, but they're also easier and cheaper to develop, they take advantage of various new features the current consoles have and generally overrall it's a much more sensible, efficient design that offers more than a graphical upgrade to most people. Like, for instance, if an update is released while you're at work, it'll be downloaded and ready to go when you get home. Or you can have the console charge your controller while it's in standby mode. Little things like that make all the difference as far as I'm concerned.

The PS3 was great and all but it was just old and pre-dated - for example - any notion that a console game would have several huge updates over the course of its lifespan, things changed dramatically in that regard so the PS4 was necessary to keep on top of that. The tiny RAM, the impact of introducing a new, complex architecture, 3D TVs, the death of SD TVs, the ever-increasing interest and deployment of streaming, remote play and cloud servers... These are all other developments that Sony and Microsoft had to respond to.

Graphics are just the result of progress, they used to be a big deal because huge leaps were still being made every couple of years but they're just not any more, not even on PC. The biggest feature of the latest Nvidia graphics cards is that they've optimised the architecture so they can simplify the processors to do the same job as the old ones but with fewer transistors... It's not like the old days where a new graphics card was required to even be able to launch the latest games.

 

[mister dog]

Oh, I get it now. Your title is quite misleading, I thought you were asking if we thought we needed a PS5 already because the PS4 isn't a big enough jump from the PS3. The PS4/Xbox One are the current generation because they've been released, not the next generation.

Adjusted, thanks for the heads up.

Yes, the current generation was very much necessary, the Xbox 360 was holding everyone up with its DVD drive and the PS3's Cell architecture combined with the pitiful RAM it had was quite a mis-step. Now they're all using high capacity discs and x86 architecture with all that RAM, not only do games look better as mentioned, but they're also easier and cheaper to develop, they take advantage of various new features the current consoles have and generally overrall it's a much more sensible, efficient design that offers more than a graphical upgrade to most people. Like, for instance, if an update is released while you're at work, it'll be downloaded and ready to go when you get home. Or you can have the console charge your controller while it's in standby mode. Little things like that make all the difference as far as I'm concerned.

The PS3 was great and all but it was just old and pre-dated - for example - any notion that a console game would have several huge updates over the course of its lifespan, things changed dramatically in that regard so the PS4 was necessary to keep on top of that. The tiny RAM, the impact of introducing a new, complex architecture, 3D TVs, the death of SD TVs, the ever-increasing interest and deployment of streaming, remote play and cloud servers... These are all other developments that Sony and Microsoft had to respond to.

Graphics are just the result of progress, they used to be a big deal because huge leaps were still being made every couple of years but they're just not any more, not even on PC. The biggest feature of the latest Nvidia graphics cards is that they've optimised the architecture so they can simplify the processors to do the same job as the old ones but with fewer transistors... It's not like the old days where a new graphics card was required to even be able to launch the latest games.

Whilst all of that is true, don't you feel a bit guilty throwing your trusty PS3/ 360 away already whilst you have this entire catalog of great games that you haven't played or finished? Either you did or you are that dedicated gamer that finished all there is because nobody has disturbed him in his basement

 

[Luminis]

That's my plan, but seeing i have a wife and kids which take up a lot of time, and there's so much games on my last gen consoles still, that will probably make it 2016- 2017 at the earliest

See, that's the thing. It's a very personal decision.

If you're the kind of guy who has the spare time to play through the games he likes, there's little point in sticking with the old consoles. The new content is on the new ones and if you want that, you'd go for it. If you're not bothered with the visual fidelity not being up to par, there's no reason to blow money now.

Personally, I'm not going to buy a next-gen console any time soon. My PC serves me well enough and the only reason to get a PS4 or XBone is a decent Gran Turismo or Forza game, for me. Still in doubt about GT7 and FM5 didn't seem like a big hit, so I'm still holding off. Might just refrain from buying a PS4/XBone entirely (first time not buying a console since the SNES generation). There's one reason that made the new generation of consoles pretty darn necessary, though. As neema_t said, the old ones were holding game development back. Even the PS4/XBone aren't much to write home about, in terms of raw power, but they're a huge step up from their ancestors. Those were bottle-necking video games quite hard, especially multi-platform titles.

 

[Aphelion]

The PS4-Xbox one are more about processing speed and over all user friendliness. Of course they do look better, but i get the feeling that isn't as much of the focus this time around.

 

[Parker]

There is much more to a game than just graphics. I made the jump the the current generation as soon as the PS4 was released and haven't regretted it one bit, however if you're the type of person who expects a huge leap in graphics like the previous few generations, you're gonna be disappointed.

 

[Shirrako]

This video proves that the gap is just as big as it has ever been

 

[Peasantslayer]

You're probably better off comparing games within a franchise, from what I've seen DC seems to focus on looks at the expense of everything else.

 

[Earth]

You're probably better off comparing games within a franchise, from what I've seen DC seems to focus on looks at the expense of everything else.

Driveclub really doesnt cut corners anywhere. Day/night changes, weather effects, 3D scenery that goes on for miles, shadows, sound, damage are all superior to GT6. Yes it runs at 30fps, but its a solid 30fps and if they had the time (3-4 years) and budget (tens of millions) of PD Im sure they could have got 60fps.

 

[PletdeKoe]

I'm gonna wait for No man's sky to buy me a playstation 4. Or if metal gear solid 5 turns out to be the amazing game it looks to be, i might just get it sooner.

 

[Luminis]

You're probably better off comparing games within a franchise, from what I've seen DC seems to focus on looks at the expense of everything else.

Forza Motorsport 4 to Forza Motorsport 5 shows the improved performance quite well, imho. The lighting, textures and anti aliasing are much better on the XBone compared to the 360. And that's a launch title compared to a title that came about late in the 360's life cycle.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't buy games for graphics, so what the console puts on the screen hardly matters. The newer consoles allow on paper, better physics, better AI, better detail, and more complex situations. The problem is when devs ignore all that and act like graphics are what matters. A lot of old games really shouldn't be competitive with new titles with the amount of power the consoles have, but as long as graphics remain a main selling point PS1 games will stay as good as PS4 ones, or in some cases exceed them. I haven't bothered with PS4 or Xbox One because they don't really offer much to play.

 

[Shirrako]

You're probably better off comparing games within a franchise, from what I've seen DC seems to focus on looks at the expense of everything else.

Wrong, It focuses on gameplay and social features just as much as the graphics, DC is a great game with a lot content, the DLC packs are amazing aswell.

I will continue to defend Driveclub because people hate on the game due to the launch which was indeed terrible, but now that is gone and the game is the best racing game on PS4 and also the best looking PS4 game at the moment, plays great, looks great, those 2 things make a game good and Driveclub is a 9/10 game, with all the DLC and the extra content, I believe DC will be a 9.5 or even a 10/10 game.

 

[mister dog]

Forza Motorsport 4 to Forza Motorsport 5 shows the improved performance quite well, imho. The lighting, textures and anti aliasing are much better on the XBone compared to the 360. And that's a launch title compared to a title that came about late in the 360's life cycle.

This is a good example indeed, but to demonstrate another point. Frankly if you look at that video the graphics on FM4 are almost as good as in FM5 (i even think the background mountains look sharper in 4 in some respect), so is this upgrade in graphics and physics from 4 to 5 worth 400 bucks as you can just go out and pick up FM4 for a tenner somewhere and almost have the same experience.

 

[MeanElf]

...don't you feel a bit guilty throwing your trusty PS3/ 360 away already...

Why would anyone throw away a previous generation console just because a new one is out? I know one or two people here don't use it any more, in which case the new-gen machines are a logical step. I have the PS2 a 3 and a 4 all happily co-existing along with a WiiU - they all get played on according to my mood (the PS2 less these days, I'll admit.)

As has been mentioned though, it isn't just graphics, as the processing options are definitely more robust and capable. Like @Shirrako says, DC offers so much more with it's full on dynamic weather and a tonne of peripheral motion from drifting smoke to blown litter and leaves. It's where GT is heading and I feel it is what Kazunori-san wants for the future of GT with his 'edge-effect' comment - obviously though, the PS3 couldn't manage that to anywhere near the same level.

 

[mister dog]

Why would anyone throw away an previous generation console just because a new one is out? I know one or two people here don't use it any more, in which case the new-gen machines are a logical step. I have the PS2 a 3 and a 4 all happily co-existing along with a WiiU - they all get played on according to my mood (the PS2 less these days, I'll admit.)

You're more the exception to the rule as i think the majority of folk either sell off their PS3 once they get a 4, or it disappears in the closet.

As has been mentioned though, it isn't just graphics, as the processing options are definitely more robust and capable. Like @Shirrako says, DC offers so much more with it's full on dynamic weather and a tonne of peripheral motion from drifting smoke to blown litter and leaves. It's where GT is heading and I feel it is what Kazunori-san wants for the future of GT with his 'edge-effect' comment - obviously though, the PS3 couldn't manage that to anywhere near the same level.

My point being is dynamic weather, upgraded smoke and blowing litter worth 400 dollars? The processing options will generate superior games in the future that's for sure, but most current gen games that are released nowadays just look a tad better than their last gen predecessors, so one can be perfectly happy (and have more money in the bank), if he settles for the extensive library of last gen games for the time being.

 

[Luminis]

This is a good example indeed, but to demonstrate another point. Frankly if you look at that video the graphics on FM4 are almost as good as in FM5 (i even think the background mountains look sharper in 4 in some respect), so is this upgrade in graphics and physics from 4 to 5 worth 400 bucks as you can just go out and pick up FM4 for a tenner somewhere and almost have the same experience.

Youtube videos aren't that good at conveying the finer details. The difference between 720p (FM4) and 1080p (FM5), for example, is quite hard to notice in a YT video that's rendered to 1080p itself with all the compression artifacts and whatnot. If you were to run them side by side, on a big TV screen, you'd notice the difference in resolution pretty easily. Same goes for anti aliasing.

My point being is dynamic weather, upgraded smoke and blowing litter worth 400 dollars? The processing options will generate superior games in the future that's for sure, but most current gen games that are released nowadays just look a tad better than their last gen predecessors, so one can be perfectly happy (and have more money in the bank), if he settles for the extensive library of last gen games for the time being.

I'd agree with you if it was one game that only benefitted from slightly better graphics. However, that's not the only benefit of a new console. You get access to the current content, which might be important for those who've finished the last-gen games they're interested in alreay; it might also be important to play games that still have a thriving community for multi player purposses.

Frankly, you could ask the same about any piece of technology. Why upgrade from your old CRT TV to a full HD TV if all you get is a higher resolution? You might just watch your old VHS tapes over and over again. Well, might be worth it if you're watching a dozen current movies per month, right? Why do I buy a watch with an asking price of $ 130? Because it's that much better at telling the time than a watch for $ 10? Nope, because I want the intangible/not immediately tangible benefits like (to me) better looks, longevity, the brand name.

So, let's not forget that consoles are toys. WE're not buying them because they're necessary or because they're paying for themselves. There's no need to buy a PS4; or a PS3, PS2 or PS1, for that matter. We buy consoles or gaming PCs because they're fun - and you can't objectively measure how much fun someone gets out of the improved fidelity of newer consoles - or how that fun would covnert to money. I could basically ask you whether a PS2 is worth the 50 bucks you'd have to spend on it (and some games) compared to blankly staring out of the window - and there's no objective way to prove that the PS2 would be worth the cash.

 

[Venom800tt]

I must be odd also, since I still play my PS3 more than my PS4, but whatever. Mostly because most of the games I really like are, well PS3 games. Main games I play on PS3 have yet to make the jump to PS4 yet anyway. Some others have, and I do enjoy them on PS4 greatly.

 

[Tornado]

The fidelity jump this generation has been smaller than any in the past, yes. It will undoubtedly get even more minute from here, too; not the least of which because the industry cannot indefinitely sustain itself along the path it has gone down.






But already I think we've seen things that show just how necessary it was to do so, even if just to get away from the overly complicated architecture developers have been working around. Five years from now, particularly after all the hubris with "the cloud?", I definitely see "what's the point" unless some major innovation hits the scene that truly moves things forward (Virtual reality?); because chasing graphics isn't going to do it anymore. But now? With new systems we might finally be able to see the kind of stuff we were hyped up to see in 2005, and I'm game for that even if it is just correcting mistakes made with last generation.

 

[sems4arsenal]

You're more the exception to the rule as i think the majority of folk either sell off their PS3 once they get a 4, or it disappears in the closet.

My point being is dynamic weather, upgraded smoke and blowing litter worth 400 dollars? The processing options will generate superior games in the future that's for sure, but most current gen games that are released nowadays just look a tad better than their last gen predecessors, so one can be perfectly happy (and have more money in the bank), if he settles for the extensive library of last gen games for the time being.

I'd suggest getting direct feed videos of the order or uncharted 4's demos at the Playstation event, thank me later.

 

[Daniel]

You're more the exception to the rule as i think the majority of folk either sell off their PS3 once they get a 4, or it disappears in the closet.

Doubt it. I know lots of people (me included) that kept their PS3 after upgrading, and I only know one person that's sold it. Yeah, I don't play it as much anymore, but it's still very much used.

 

[Oso Actual]

I've always wondered with each advancement in gaming, can they make this look anymore realistic? And they usually do. Some of the lighting and reflections that I see (Forza Horizon 2 and Infamous:SS) for example, the wet roads and glistening are amazing but will I still think that come games I play in 2016+?

I have both PS4 and Xbox One, I play and buy more games on xbox, even though I have had more frustrations with Xbox One over the last year than the 8 or so I had with the 360. Some of the freeze issues and having to clear the cache constantly in order to connect sometimes is borderline ridiculous.

But I suppose some things have to be a trade off with these new consoles.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I play PS3 probably more than I play PS4, Xbox One or PC. I do think think it is a good time when they released them and given the hardware, it means if there is a powerful next-gen handheld, might get the same gameplay as these new consoles with similar graphics. It is also good that more developers time can be spent on making the games than getting it to run. Speed is a huge improvement for PS4 compared to PS3. Also gameplay recording is a huge plus for me. Given costs of these consoles will likely come down relatively soon and already seem to have done so, they will likely be closer to current new PS3 prices and used games for the console are already quite cheap. I don't know if Sony and Microsoft will manage to make PS3 and 360 respectively much cheaper and how long they can continue producing them but something like PS4 and Xbox One seems like they can become very competitive on price very quickly.

Xbox One has taken a few steps back from 360 for me. Speed to use has taken a step back it seems and OS does not feel as easy to use. Don't know how much they can improve that but hopefully they improve it a lot. No free gameplay recording to share. It has also got a big disadvantage compared to the PS4 regarding GPU power and so don't really see much ways of improvement for first party games graphically while PS4 will likely have legs and it seems ease of development advantage but slightly slower CPU. Going from PS3 to PS4 will feel like a huge leap while going from say 360 to Xbox One won't IMO.

I didn't vote on poll as I already have the PS4 and Xbox One but still focus is on finishing last gen games.

 

[Wolfe]

As others have said, the next generation allows for things like better special effects, more advanced physics, and more objects/actors on screen, as long as developers don't continue bludgeoning their game engines with excessive poly counts and fine details at the expense of framerate ("it's a 'cinematic' framerate!"). The only reason things like rain and weather are selling points is because common graphics assets were pushing previous generation hardware beyond the point where games could deliver their own depiction of rain/weather.

More processing power is always useful. What matters is how it's utilized.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

As others have said, the next generation allows for things like better special effects, more advanced physics, and more objects/actors on screen, as long as developers don't continue bludgeoning their game engines with excessive poly counts and fine details at the expense of framerate ("it's a 'cinematic' framerate!"). The only reason things like rain and weather are selling points is because common graphics assets were pushing previous generation hardware beyond the point where games could deliver their own depiction of rain/weather.

More processing power is always useful. What matters is how it's utilized.

To me, last generation it seemed good trade offs were made and I think it will continue this generation too as I expect game developers to know better than most about what they are doing. It seems this generation CPU will be biggest bottleneck in advancing gameplay and looks like it will affect framerate too.

 

[Luminis]

I expect game developers to know better than most about what they are doing.

They're trying to make money; that's what they're doing. And that, quite often, doesn't coincide with making the best possible product.

 

[bevo]

Since the ps4 came out I literally haven't played the 360 or ps3 one. I move on quickly. For me though the consoles are pretty much just for sports and coop gaming. I use PC for racing and other genres.

I've always moved on fast. Every time a system has ever came out the last system was dead to me.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

They're making money. And that, quite often, doesn't coincide with making the best possible product.

Making money seems hard to do in this business so trying to make a best possible product and maybe exceeding budgets usually means from what I've seen quite a good product is made to be competitive. I see people refer Microsoft as Micro$oft even though potentially they could have made a loss on every console platform they released.