Do you secretly love the which of these cars would you buy threads?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sertsa
  • 31 comments
  • 2,139 views
Sertsa

Sertsa

Messages
966
Modern car shopping is discouraging. I love driving, and it's surprisingly tough to find a reasonably affordable, somewhat practical, well-handling car with a manual transmission. I may have to give up on finding one without electronic throttle/braking/steering.

I nearly bought a 2000 S2000 last fall, but I couldn't quite convince myself, given that I live in a rural area with a few dirt roads and a lot of inclimate weather. I'm also 6'2".

And, I'm now too old to not look ridiculous in some cars, so quite a few sports compacts are out.

Anyway, enough words and to the current contenders, complete with sample pictures:

Set 1 - The all wheel drive stealth hot rods:

Subaru Legacy GT:
15386556996.275668081.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg


The Mazdaspeed6:
P1743.02.jpg



Set 2 - Luxury performance:

Yeah, it's a 3-series. Too bad so many of their owners are nits.
03.jpg


And probably its main competitor, an Infiniti G (a G35 in this case)
15176988684.268497272.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg



Set 3 - Or just say, forget stealth, forget practicality, get something that looks like this and let the highway patrol take notice:

Zoom Zoom, with a thirsty rotary engine that requires oil with every second fill-up (of premium fuel at under 20 mpg).
15401934758.276559585.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg


Or the Z. The glorious, brute force of the Z:
NP1772.jpg



Caveats: I've owned two Nissans, put a lot of miles on each (one to 250K), but they took a lot of maintenance and had some quirks. I've flirted with Mazda and owned one for a week, but it had issues so the dealer agreed to buy it back. I'm hesitant to try again. I love older Hondas, but I just don't like the ones that have been built lately, and I'd prefer rear or all wheel drive this time. I'll be keeping my current Honda, though.

So, what do you think?
 
Last edited:
Gut instinct says either the MS6 or the Z-Car, depending on which wheels you like driven.

But then I remembered that the G35 has about the same performance as a 350Z, and will probably be a bit cheaper to buy and insure. Out of the six, that's probably the one I'd go with.
 
Out of all of them, I'd take the RX-8. You only mentioned the rotary drawbacks, which are things that don't bother me because the Renesis is an engine the size of a watermelon that puts out 232 horsepower that only has 3 moving parts which rotate, not reciprocate, which allows the engine to rev freely to 9 grand while being so smooth it seems almost otherworldly.

Also, once you open up the intake and exhaust, it'll sound like this:



Wankels are magical, wondrous things. Most people don't get them, but for people like me who do, there are few things better.
 
Brand loyalty would have me generally saying the Legacy/Liberty or the 350Z, but to be perfectly honest I would go with the 6 MPS. I like the look of it, it's got all-wheel-drive, it's practical, and the 2.3L turbo'd 4 is a really damn good engine.

Second choice would definitely be a Liberty though. Love Subarus to bits, and the GT versions if I'm not mistaken get the STi 2.5L motor which has a lot of punch and good aftermarket support. Plus you get a fair bit of kit for cheap and the AWD system is one of, if not the best for reliability and capability.
 
Thanks.

I guess I focused on the rotary's drawbacks, as it's what's keeping me from getting an RX-8. Otherwise, nearly everything about the car--including the sound of the engine--seems awesome.

Well, that and my previous Mazda experience. In short, I had severely broken my left leg and needed an automatic. I found a used Protege, but it turned out the transmission was bad. Replacing it would have nearly doubled what I paid for the car. That same experience is making me hesitant with the MS6. That and long term replacement parts, as it was only made for a couple of years. The other issue is that, if I understand it right, the MS6 mostly operates as a FWD car but pushes up to 50% of the power to the rear wheels during certain driving conditions. Impressive technology, but I wonder about the likelihood of its going wrong.

I'm surprised how many used RX-8s and MS6s are currently available in my area. When I search for RWD/AWD cars with manual transmissions, there may be more of them than anything else.

The Subaru is very tempting, and I'll have to see if that one's still in stock, even though I'm uncertain about the dealer selling it (although it's better than the chain selling nearly all new Subes in my area). It seems the hardest to find used, despite my being in an area that should be one of the company's key markets. I've never driven a Subaru; one of the few makes I've yet to try. I also keep thinking about WRXs, but it's tough to find one that's not had hideous things done to it, and most of them aren't exactly stealthy. (If I'd find a reasonably well-maintained bug-eye, however, it would be hard to pass up).

I also really like the Z, but the Infiniti is a more civilized, stealthy version. It has a back seat and every kid with a bodykit-clad compact won't want to race me. (A friend who has a Mustang Cobra has that problem, but she'll occasionally launch off a light if her kids aren't with her).

I'm surprised no one's said BMW. Maybe driving aficionados who play GT games know that there really are other choices. At any rate, I was tempted to buy a '95 325i for $3K and just drive the snot out of it, but it appears someone already bought it. It would still cost a good amount to keep going, I think. Still, though...

Anyway, despite the frustrations of finding sporty cars with manual transmissions, I also have to say that what is out there is surprisingly good. Those cars (and some that are similar) are all 2005-2008 models, all have under 50K miles and are listed between $15K (including an RX-8) and $27K (The BMW and Z, which has under 8K miles). Most are around $17K-$22K. Not bad, and I could buy nearly any two for the price of what they are new. Hmmm...
 
I'll sum it up in three categories...
  • Practicality = Subaru Legacy GT
  • All 'rounder = Infiniti G35 saloon
  • For the 8 year old kid in you = 350Z

The RX8 is ok, but all those revs will drive you batty if you drive this on a daily basis to/from work. Revving the nuts off of something day in and day out can get a bit tiresome. Plus the negatives outweigh the positives IMO, but to he honest I am biased against the RX8 a bit (doesn't help that my fiancée wants one). The MazdaSpeed 6 while a great and fast car, they tend to eat tires and I don't know if you would like the interior. Looks good, but feels a bit cheap and tinny...and thus comes the rattles 40-60k miles from now. I do love any and all MazdaSpeed stuff. I know it is probably blasphemous to mention but have you considered a Mustang GT? If you are considering an RX8 and or a 350Z and you are not cross-shopping a GT then you might just want to take a drive in one. While I like BMW, if you can't get either a 335i or an M3 then I wouldn't bother personally. While the lower models may be some fun and not that expensive...you'll come to realize on of these days that you should of forked the extra money on the 2 higher models.

Final thought, here is a suggestion for you to either consider or turn down. :D

2010 Ford Fusion Sport AWD 3.5L V6:
2010-Ford-Fusion

2010_ford_fusion_4-500x358.jpg


The great thing is you can get the dealer to paint that chrome grille the body color and then it looks perfect. 0-60 in the 6's and the good smooth drivetrain makes a perfect daily driver and fun on the weekends through some mountain roads with that awsome new 3.5L V6 and AWD. It doesn't have a manual but does have a 6spd flappy paddle gearbox that some reviewers like. Plus, you can support Ford who didn't take any of our tax dollars and waste it. :D
 
JCE - Thanks. I kind of consider Ford, and I generally like dealing with them professionally (I work with people from nearly all the car manufacturers). I really don't think I'll like the flappy pedals in the Fusion, however, and my impressions of driving some other Mustangs wasn't great. It wasn't bad; I just like a little more ability to carve up curves (even though my first car was a massive, somewhat unwieldy ex-police Plymouth with a 440 cubic inch engine). I haven't tried the most recent Mustangs, however.

And, I'll say it. I once owned a Pinto. I know it's nowhere near the same Ford, but it's tough to give a company a second chance after that. Still, it wasn't as bad as two of the GMs I had. (That and I'm a little irked that Ford decided to give Europe a much more sporty Focus than they gave to North America. I guess they knew what they're doing, though. Both are massive hits in their respective places).
 
Last edited:
JCE - By the way, since you like Mustangs, you may like this photo of Mustang #1 next to the first prototype. This is at The Henry Ford museum, which is very cool place.
Mustang.jpg
 
Sertsa
Well, that and my previous Mazda experience.
Click to expand...
I can vouch for Mazda. My family has owned eight Mazdas from 1980 to now, and the most serious issue with any of them was a leaky heater-core in the 1985 626. Of the newest generation, my parents have a 2003 6 and a 2009 6, and I have a 2007 3. All three of those cars have been bullet-proof (I think the '03 6 had a recall concerning the fuel cap).

The Mazda club I hang out with has lots of 3's, MS3's and MS6's. Nobody ever has any serious issues, except for with over-zealous modifications. I'd look at the MS6, as everyone I know who has one loves it, and it's reliable.
 
Thanks, Kylehnat, that helps. I have noticed a few of them around here have rust issues, even cars as new as the 3s. I also know someone who blew the engine on a 6, but I think she seriously neglected it. The MS6 is right at the top for now.

Balocco - Those look interesting, but past experience has my recoiling at the thought of ever owning another GM. (That has nothing to do with the bailout. Sometime in my late teens/early 20s, I just got tired of being stranded and trying to figure out what was wrong with the thing now. Not even the Pinto put me through that).
 
Legacy all the way.

I've only had one problem with mine in the past two years and it's because I can't find the turbo!
But please get the 4th gen like the one pictured the 5th gen looks terrible. And try to find a spec.B those are awesome.
 
Sertsa
I've never driven a Subaru; one of the few makes I've yet to try. I also keep thinking about WRXs, but it's tough to find one that's not had hideous things done to it, and most of them aren't exactly stealthy. (If I'd find a reasonably well-maintained bug-eye, however, it would be hard to pass up).
Click to expand...

WRXs are nice but the later Libertys get the same motors anyway and are found to be one of the much less molested Japanese models.

I've driven my mum's old '05 WRX and a 2009 Subaru Liberty 2.5i and they're both great cars to drive. Loads of grip, good punch from the flat-4 (although the 'Rex had a few mods which saw about 300hp at the wheels compared to the standard 220hp at the flywheel), and because of the AWD they feel very planted and secure. Sube's automatic transmissions are a bit meh though.

We also never had any mechanical problems with SIC EM (the WRX) since ownership, however insurance obviously was pretty bad. Because you're looking at a Liberty/Legacy though, that problem is rectified.
 
Thanks. Frizbe - I'm not sure what you mean that you can't find the turbo. Do you need a replacement and can't get one? Also, the spec.B sounds awesome, but weren't only 500 made? Finding one would be very tough, and then I'd probably feel bad putting miles on it. I did look over a current gen. Legacy on a lot and didn't like it nearly as much.

Murcie - Coolness. I think I would like the Legacy to have a tighter suspension like the Imprezza, though. After all, I can have fun carving through a rural curvy road every day, but getting close to a top speed range is a special occasion, not really for public roads, event. But your mom had a modified WRX? That is quite cool.
 
That year of Legacy was awesome. But also awesomely tight. The Mazda6 is a bit roomier... better steering, too, but that Legacy had a very keen balance, if I remember right... both fun to drive. Both very "Q-Car". Put on a wool coat and spectacles and you might be able to snow your way out of a ticket when driving either... :lol:
 
Sertsa
Murcie - Coolness. I think I would like the Legacy to have a tighter suspension like the Imprezza, though. After all, I can have fun carving through a rural curvy road every day, but getting close to a top speed range is a special occasion, not really for public roads, event. But your mom had a modified WRX? That is quite cool.
Click to expand...

Yeah cause it's more luxury the Legacy is a bit softer than a WRX but it still has plenty of grip and balance in it and you can get pretty much the same aftermarket parts as an Impreza if you wish. Mum's 'Rex had an ECUTek remap, 19" Konig Unknown mags on Toyo Proxes4 tyres, 3" MRT Rally exhaust and a set of King Springs (front)/TEIN (rear) lowered suspension. About 300hp at the wheels (took down pretty much every V8 that went against it) and stuck like superglue in the twisties. Lots of feel/feedback, and pretty much no body roll.

Like niky said though the model Legacy you're looking at had a pretty good suspension setup that was close to the WRX's right out of the box.
 
niky - I have the spectacles covered, and on occasion even the wool coat. I guess that's the upside to being a speed freak / literature and music geek. I may have pushed my luck in being let go after getting caught doing 20MPH over. (I didn't try to talk my way out of it, either. I knew what I was speeding, and I admitted it when he asked.) If he sees me doing that again, though, it'll be time to pay.

Anyway, the S/S# knob in those Legacy/Liberties seems a little funky. I guess it regulates how much the turbo kicks in under acceleration?

Murcie - Cool. Here I thought it was a little nuts when my mom had muscle cars, including a Plymouth Road Runner. So, if one of your friends starts bragging about the speed of, say, a Civic Si or maybe even a Mustang, you could just tell him, "Dude! My mum could outrun you in her car!"
 
My money would go on the MPS6 - but then I have a small person and some dogs, and my sportscar bent is fulfilled elsewhere. I had the 6's chassis-cousin Mondeo ST220 for a while and it was a very, very good car. The MPS is the same, but faster and 4WD...
 
My money would go to the Z or MS6. It's a tough choice. If you have another car I would easily go with the Z, and even then the Z is a good daily driver. I ran into problems when I wanted to go out with friends and didn't trust anyone else to drive.

I'd take the MS6 over the Legacy, though I've only driven the MS6 and the decision is purely based on my opinion of the 6.
 
Sertsa
Thanks. Frizbe - I'm not sure what you mean that you can't find the turbo. Do you need a replacement and can't get one? Also, the spec.B sounds awesome, but weren't only 500 made? Finding one would be very tough, and then I'd probably feel bad putting miles on it. I did look over a current gen. Legacy on a lot and didn't like it nearly as much.
Click to expand...
LOL I only have a 2.5i
The Si drive system affects boost pressure and suspension firmness. at least '08/'09 had elctronic suspension on the Si drive equipped cars.

I'm pretty sure the spec.B was made in more numbers than 500 I've seen more than enough to tell me they can't be quite that rare. I believe the first run ('05 or '04 I think, pre-facelift) was really small.
 
"2009 Subaru Liberty 2.5i.....good punch from the flat-4"

I wouldn't exactly say that but remember it only produced 170hp at the motor, and because of the 4WD system not much ends up at the wheels anyway. The spec.B however is a lot quicker. I know which one I went for, but the MS6 is still a bloody fantastic car from what everyone says, I suppose I can take their words for it. And plus, I think they both also look great.
 
Thanks, everyone. I'm surprised how many like the stealthy performance cars. I thought I was in a serious minority liking cars like that. I'm mostly tempted by those two, as well, or something made earlier.

Does anyone have a G35 or G37 with a manual? There's an Edmunds review that recommends against the manual because, they say, the cabin is so refined and the noise level so low that the driver can't really hear when to shift. That seems like a pretty extreme statement.


Casio - Maybe Saab's new parents are better than the last ones.
 
Last edited:
Turbo Lag
A bit OT but Frizbe is yours a pre- or facelift model?
Click to expand...
Mine is a facedlifted sexy-as-all-get-up '08 model.
Just missing the hood scoop. Damn special offers on the slow models. :ouch:
 
Turbo Lag
"2009 Subaru Liberty 2.5i.....good punch from the flat-4"

I wouldn't exactly say that but remember it only produced 170hp at the motor, and because of the 4WD system not much ends up at the wheels anyway.
Click to expand...

True but for what is essentially a base model it certainly isn't bad. Obviously the new GT with the turbo'd 250hp motor is the pick of the current line-up.
 
The only cars I would consider "jerk cars" are the Z, Bimmer and maaaybe the MS6. Coincidentally, 2 of 3 of those are my top picks! 👍
 
I'm surprised anyone would think a Mazda or Subaru would be a jerk car. Subaru seems to get the opposite reaction. Speaking of that, I told a friend, who happens to be a woman, I was thinking of a Subaru.

She said, "A Subaru? Nooooo. Dude! It's a [expletive] Subaru! Women hate those!"
I told her, no, in some places they're considered cool, especially the WRX. She protested and said, never, in no circumstance, does a woman think a Subaru is cool. Practical, ok, but cool, never.

I don't think she's right, though, and that definitely doesn't mean I'll drop it from consideration. I just thought I'd share. Maybe I should ask her about a 9-3 just to see how long it takes her to stop laughing.
 
Sertsa
Yeah, it's a 3-series. Too bad so many of their owners are nits.
Click to expand...
You'd best take that back. We're a completely sound bunch of cool guys that just happen to have the best cars on the planet.

The 335i is clearly the best option. Interior is better than the G35, and that turbo setup is so smooth on the 335i, its torque everywhere!

And it will keep its value longer.

And it looks better.

And its a BMW.

So yeah, the BMW is best.
:sly:

But srsly, it is the best one
 
Azuremen - Laughs, great post. But have you seen how a lot of BMW drivers behave in a downtown parking garage? And around it? Maybe the confined spaces drive them crazy, or maybe it's the getting an assigned parking space. (Although maybe they need to have the assigned numbers on the prime floor, because that may be the only way to tell which is your black or silver BMW. OK, so maybe they can tell by the personalized license plates). Still, the greatest nits seem to be switching over to Audi. OK, a few have Priuses, which also have personalized plates alluding to the fact that their cars are hybrids, but that's another kind of nit, and I digress.

Honestly, I'd really like an older, pre e-nanny 3-series, but I'm concerned It would demand a good chunk of my life's savings to keep it alive. I'm thinking an E30 would be quite cool. Or maybe an E46, although I think it's pretty e-nannied. But since I've learned what those codes mean, have I become more of a nit? (Actually I think the true BMW nits are the ones that buy it for the pinwheel, not what's behind it.)
 
Last edited:

Latest Posts

Back