Do You Think During Movies?

[Danoff]

I’ve recently had the task of trying to explain the symbolism present in the final episode of Pirates of the Caribbean, Dracula, and the Lord of the Rings. I had the unfortunate duty to explain to someone that he basically had no idea what one of his favorite movies "Being There" was about. The people that I was explaining these things to are the type to get up and get a drink during a movie without pausing the movie. Passive watchers, is how I would describe them. I know a lot of people who watch movies/read books passively - not really doing any thought during the film. And I started wondering how many people out there are missing 90% of the movie they’re watching.

Was Fight Club a movie about some guys who hit each other? Or was it a comment on the importance of meaning, accomplishment, and emotion in life.
Was the Lord of the Rings a movie/book about some hobbits that try to destroy a ring? Or was it a comment on innocence lost and the inherent evil in absolute power?
Was The Matrix a movie about kung fu? Or was it a movie about fate, choice, faith, and even reality?

Some movies are easy right? It’s hard to miss the themes in Braveheart, V for Vendetta, or even a movie like X-Men. But it feels like stupidity to me when I have to explain that the ship at the end of the Lord of the Rings represents death, or even just transcendence. I know it isn’t, though, it’s laziness. But it’s easy to confuse a lazy thinker with a poor thinker.

So how about it? Do you notice this stuff, or do you pretty much just watch for the explosions? If you don’t notice this sort of thing in films, do you realize you’re missing a huge portion of the film?

Feel free to post examples of strong themes or symbolism that you particularly enjoyed.

 

[Dave A]

For me it really depends on my mood, but if I'm tired and not in the mood to watch a deep film I won't watch a deep film.

I don't go to as great lenths as a lot of people, but I do like a film with a good story and a good meaning behind the story. Just not when I'm tired, when I'm tired I'm happy with Die Hard 4. Some films I don't really enjoy enough to care, I never really bothered trying to understand the meanings behind Revolver. I'm a good story person but I like to be able to just enjoy the film while I'm watching first time, but to have things to think about after and to maybe pick up on when I watch it a second time and maybe a third time and so on.

 

[Joey D]

One thing that has always bugged me is that there probably is a deeper meaning to the Star Wars movies but I could never figure it out. I've heard ideas that it represented the Cold War, the Vietnam War, the US's imperial nature, and Communism, but I always thought these were a bit far fetched. I believe many movies have a deeper meaning but most of us either don't pick up on it or really care to pick up on it.

 

[Sage]

I don’t watch many movies, but when I do, I’m not just an active viewer, I’m an aggressive viewer – if I miss one insignificant word in a dialogue or if I can’t figure out what something symbolically represents, I go nuts. And I absolutely will not miss one second of a movie, even if I have to wee really bad.

A movie should be a deep look into someone’s heart, so a movie devoid of morality (or viewing a movie without thinking of morality) is just a waste of time.

[edit]:

One thing that has always bugged me is that there probably is a deeper meaning to the Star Wars movies but I could never figure it out. I've heard ideas that it represented the Cold War, the Vietnam War, the US's imperial nature, and Communism, but I always thought these were a bit far fetched.

I’m not sure there’s a Communism theme in Star Wars (there’s really no commentary on capitalism), but it clearly references WWII: Darth Vader = Hitler, and storm troopers = stormtroopers (there are other references to WWII, but those two are the most obvious).

 

[Joey D]

Wait so you are telling me there was a deeper meaning in the Fast and the Furious "trilogy"? I think a large percentage of movies have a meaning to them but there are some that just have mindless action or comedy in them.

 

[Danoff]

I don’t watch many movies, but when I do, I’m not just an active viewer, I’m an aggressive viewer – if I miss one insignificant word in a dialogue or if I can’t figure out what something symbolically represents, I go nuts. And I absolutely will not miss one second of a movie, even if I have to wee really bad.

A movie should be a deep look into someone’s heart, so a movie devoid of morality (or viewing a movie without thinking of morality) is just a waste of time.

I recommend that you stay far far away from the final installment of the Pirates of the Caribbean series. There is a good deal of symbolism in that movie, but good luck untangling the confusing cobweb and distinguishing important lines from the ones aimed at keeping 13 year old girls happy. It'll give you a headache.

 

[Sage]

I recommend that you stay far far away from the final installment of the Pirates of the Caribbean series. There is a good deal of symbolism in that movie, but good luck untangling the confusing cobweb and distinguishing important lines from the ones aimed at keeping 13 year old girls happy. It'll give you a headache.

Oh trust me, that movie drove me crazy. Right after exiting the theater, I spent about half an hour asking my friends about what had happened and who said what and what this meant etc. etc. Then once I got home, I spent about an hour reading the Wikipedia page on it.

I have to admit that as much as I enjoyed the series in general, I’m not too comfortable with the idea of glorifying pirates over a man whose last words are “It’s just good business.”

 

[FoolKiller]

I do both. It depends on my mood.

There is my Nirvana mood ("here we are now, entertain us") where I just want to be entertained. Show me stuff blowing up and pack in as much blood and nudity as you can. Many movies with symbolism, such as Lord of the Rings, can be watched like this and still enjoyed.

Then I have my self reflective thinking mood. This is where I sit and I watch a movie and examine details. Then if it is on DVD I watch it again, but with commentary to make sure I didn't miss anything. My wife hates this mood because she realizes I will bore her to death afterward talking about what the movie said or meant. It is even worse for her if it is a book because she didn't read it and has no clue what I am talking about.


I also have a third mode: Movie Critic mode. This is where I ruin a fun movie, like Transformers, for myself. I walk away questioning every bad line, the flat deliveries, the poor chemistry, and forced relationships. I tear the movie apart, and forget that I was supposed to be having fun.


Now, the only problem with all three of my movie watching modes is that when I try to watch a romantic comedy with my wife none of them are stimulated. My movie critic immediately points out the obvious relationship entanglements and then openly mocks poorly delivered lines. Then my thinking mode asks how they can get together after such huge betrayals and after treating each other certain ways. Or how can every single freaking character be so blind to the obvious. Then after I tear apart the movie from both a stylistic and depth perspective my Nirvana mood kicks in to try and save my sanity, but then I quickly become bored and fall asleep.

I run into a lot of people who just watch a movie for its mindless value and nothing else. The perfect example of this would be my debate on SuperBad in the What Movies Have You Seen Lately thread. I have also found myself not refraining from comments when I should and when someone says, "Hey, did you see X Movie?" I know they ask because they enjoyed it and want to talk about it. That does not stop me from saying, "Yes, and I spent the entire 2 hours trying to chew my foot off so I could escape." Suddenly they are offended, but it does save me from having to hear some mindless babble about great special effects and hot chicks.


Hey, Sage, I suggest using subtitles when watching at home. When I find myself examining dialogue heavily this helps me not miss something due to a sound effect or something else odd.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I agree with foolkiller on the first 2 moods. I don't always want to think in a movie, but sometimes you just feel its demanded of you.

I watched Munich today and it was fairly interesting. Though I don't know if too much of it was on a plate than to credit it as deep thinking.

The part where the protagonist talks to the Arab terrorist at the "safe house" allows you to see both sides of a conflict. That added to the thoughts about actually seeking out those responsible for them to only be replaced and whether there ever is an end to a fanatical confrontation.

 

[Danoff]

I have to admit that as much as I enjoyed the series in general, I’m not too comfortable with the idea of glorifying pirates over a man whose last words are “It’s just good business.”

Yet another aspect of the movie that I fear many people don't even really consider. If you're actually thinking about the movie, by the time you get to the end you're thinking "are they seriously glorifying thieves over what amounts to the police and businessmen?" The answer is yes. And you can see how they ended up in that awkward position.

But what else could I expect from a movie that starts out with a soldier explaining to people about to be executed that their "rights" to x, y, and z are temporarily suspended. Hello? Where did they get these rights? At least the pirates weren't yelling "freedom!" at the end.

I got caught up in the whole Davey Jones = The Sea, Calypso = The Wind relationship. And what sorts of doublespeak their lines had as a result of that interaction. I also got caught up in the concept of the pirates "taming" the wind and what sorts of implications that had. I still didn't like the movie, but there was definitely more to it than "Woah did you see that thing blow up? Hey look! Keira!"

I get wrapped up in symbolism in a big way for some of these movies. Fight club comes to mind. When the guy blows his apartment up (obviously rejecting his materialism), he finds that he's disgusted with the contents and says "how embarrassing, a refrigerator full of condiments and no food". That line captures the entire concept of the movie in a beautiful symbolic way. I think the vast majority of people I associate with would hear that line and say "what a strange line" and forget it 2 seconds later.

 

[Stevisiov]

I often like to think, 'deep' in terms of diologue, a perhaps deeper theme than the one that is apprently obvious. That said there are many movies where I could simply just watch without giving consideration to anything other than guns, bombs, cars and ladies.

The matrix is a film I rather enjoy, aside from the 'great effects for its time' the running along walls, the dodging bullets and the action in general. I am more interested in the acctual concept of the matrix. I start think things along of the lines, 'If I were in the matrix right now, how would I know?'.

The best diologue comes from Agent Smith generally, there was certainly more thought put into the diologue than perhaps would be noticed if you where just watching for the action. I can't think of any great examples right now, since I haven't seen the film in some time.

hmm...I may have to put the DVD on again.

 

[Kylehnat]

I take copious notes during each movie I watch, and then write a thesis on each one. Entertainment isn't truly entertainment unless you can find a way to suck the joy out of it.

For me, the point of TV and film is to make me NOT think. I think enough during the day; I don't want to do it at home. "But Kyle, don't you miss the deeper meaning behind [name of film here]?" Yes, I do. And no, I don't care. It is the job of the film-maker to entertain me--It is not my job to figure out how clever said film-maker's subliminal message is when his movie sucks.

When the TV is a-glowin', my mind is a-slowin', and that's the way I likes it.

 

[Danoff]

I take copious notes during each movie I watch, and then write a thesis on each one. Entertainment isn't truly entertainment unless you can find a way to suck the joy out of it.

For me, the point of TV and film is to make me NOT think. I think enough during the day; I don't want to do it at home. "But Kyle, don't you miss the deeper meaning behind [name of film here]?" Yes, I do. And no, I don't care. It is the job of the film-maker to entertain me--It is not my job to figure out how clever said film-maker's subliminal message is when his movie sucks.

When the TV is a-glowin', my mind is a-slowin'.

Ah good. I was hoping someone would admit it.

So let me ask you. Is there any book or movie that the underlying theme really resonated with you or any particular symbolic reference that you really enjoyed?

 

[Formula1Driver]

I basically just watch a movie to do blow some time. If there is a message in a movie that is not really obvious or jumps right out at you I will probably miss it as I don't really think there and wonder, "what did this mean...."

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I take copious notes during each movie I watch, and then write a thesis on each one. Entertainment isn't truly entertainment unless you can find a way to suck the joy out of it.

For me, the point of TV and film is to make me NOT think. I think enough during the day; I don't want to do it at home. "But Kyle, don't you miss the deeper meaning behind [name of film here]?" Yes, I do. And no, I don't care. It is the job of the film-maker to entertain me--It is not my job to figure out how clever said film-maker's subliminal message is when his movie sucks.

When the TV is a-glowin', my mind is a-slowin', and that's the way I likes it.

I will agree. Usually I watch movies for entertainment. I do turn on the subtitles, but that is just so I get the plot. I may do some thinking for some films, but I don't go out of my way to go much deeper. That's what ruined reading books for school, but sparknotes sort of saved them.

 

[V1P3R]

Watch Equilibrium, that will make you think about stuff differently.

 

[SolidSnake15]

I don't think, I just understand. Trust me, when it comes to movies, it's possible.

 

[a6m5]

I'm not as crazy as Sage(), but I can be just as..... aggressive of an viewer on occasion. Do I think durng movies? Just like couple other people in this thread, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Somtimes, I do pop in a DVD to relax my mind, enjoy the atmosphere of the film, watch exciting action. Actually, I should say, most of the times.

There are times I see a film in an attempt to analyze, understand everything about the film. Maybe the SFX, maybe the acting, maybe the plot, symbolism, cinematography, etc., etc.

Either way, loads of fun!

 

[niky]

I don't actually dissect every single movie I watch... just those that openly ask for dissection.

Star Wars is Star Wars is like "Lord of The Rings"... you don't really need to look for symbolism. It's all there in black and white. You know who's good, who's bad, and what the ending is going to be.

The Matrix is one of those "in-betweeners" for me. Sure, there's a lot of cryptic, hidden meanings in things, but it's just gloss, to me. Sure, there's a meaning there... the dominion of free-will over order, man over machine, and the difference between fate and free-will, and how accepting that fate can also be a function of free-will... blah blah... whatever... only it's all wrapped in so much symbolism that's obviously merely there to look mysterious... well, that's when the whole thing falls apart for me...

I loved Fight Club. The anarchy. The sheer surrealness and rejection of the trappings of modern life. It's a dissection of society, stripped to the core of things... what really matters in life? What do I want from it? Why do I associate with other people? And the ending is one of the best I've watched in the past twenty years.

I cherished A.I., too... (strange, I know)... a simple fairytale with a deep insight into human (and robotic) morality. A better job of it than the load of crap we got with "I Robot" (the screen writer deserves to be shot), or the sappy sentimentalism and excessive Hollywood-i-zation of "The Bicentennial Man".

Other "watch-and-think"-ers? Uhh... Jacob's Ladder, for me... Blade Runner... Memento (not for any deeper meaning, though it's there... it's just the tricky "whodunit" nature of the movie deserves more than a few replays on DVD)...

 

[Kylehnat]

So let me ask you. Is there any book or movie that the underlying theme really resonated with you or any particular symbolic reference that you really enjoyed?

The subtext behind "Bubble Boy" was very powerful, I thought. It showed us that we are all trapped in our own personal bubble for most of our lives. The plastic bubble was really a mental barrier, not a physical one.

So to answer your question: no, not really . I don't care for movies or books that are more than one layer deep (I actually don't care for books at all). I enjoy the occasional witty one-liners and references, but when a whole movie is one big "symbol" for something else, I find it very annoying and pretentious.

 

[nk4e]

Every "good" movie I watch, people don't listen to me. But I still think about it. Like the movie" RV". Though it is a simply comedy about family but I thought of it is life, do we live for the material things or the feelings of a family. But I started to say stuff to people because they would worry about the acting.

 

[FoolKiller]

I take copious notes during each movie I watch, and then write a thesis on each one. Entertainment isn't truly entertainment unless you can find a way to suck the joy out of it.

For me, the point of TV and film is to make me NOT think. I think enough during the day; I don't want to do it at home. "But Kyle, don't you miss the deeper meaning behind [name of film here]?" Yes, I do. And no, I don't care. It is the job of the film-maker to entertain me--It is not my job to figure out how clever said film-maker's subliminal message is when his movie sucks.

When the TV is a-glowin', my mind is a-slowin', and that's the way I likes it.

Here we are now.
Entertain us.

Kurt was talking about you.

Every "good" movie I watch, people don't listen to me. But I still think about it. Like the movie" RV". Though it is a simply comedy about family but I thought of it is life, do we live for the material things or the feelings of a family. But I started to say stuff to people because they would worry about the acting.

Nice Clerks example. Too bad Kevin Smith got the whole Death Star workers thing wrong. According to Lucas approved novels, the Empire used Wookie slave labor, so Chewbacca, co-pilot of the Millennium Falcon, killed thousands of his own kind. [/geek] What a Wookie!!!


Looking at Clerks it brings up a big point on this whole issue. I was raised in a conservative Christian home with many family and friends all alike. I am amazed how I can watch a movie like Clerks and see the satire and what Kevin Smith's point was. Also, I find his use of dialogue to be incredible and the characters talk like normal people, especially geeks, talk when they are just talking to each other about nothing. People I knew growing up see nothing but a much of foul mouthed idiots.

Another example is American Beauty. How many times to I have to explain that is was about more than just a pedophile looking to sleep with his daughter's best friend while his wife cheats on him? Most of these people get lost in the opening shower scene.

Often I am criticized by my movie choices based on the actions of the characters rather than the meaning of those choices. What do these things say about artistic style, our own lifestyles, or the socio-political structure we surround ourselves in? To them it is just sex and bad language.


I have seen it go both ways with both sides of the social and political mindset, but as the movie industry tends to lean more liberal the inability to see past personal offenses is more often seen by conservative viewers.

 

[Danoff]

So to answer your question: no, not really . I don't care for movies or books that are more than one layer deep (I actually don't care for books at all). I enjoy the occasional witty one-liners and references, but when a whole movie is one big "symbol" for something else, I find it very annoying and pretentious.

Ok, so what you're saying is that you really have no idea what you're missing. A movie like "American Beauty" will be completely boring and pointless to you. The scene from V for Vendetta where Evey steps out into the rain was probably confusing and stupid to you instead of being burned into your brain as one of the more beautiful moments in movie history...

 

[Kylehnat]

I haven't seen either one of those movies, so I can't comment. I'm not arguing that certain movies/scenes aren't powerful and provocative, nor am I arguing that movies should be of "Dude, Where's My Car?" simplicity. I'm arguing that if I have to sit and figure out why a seemingly-crappy movie is actually good because the film-maker is trying to be clever, then it is not a well-made film, and there is no reason why I should have to go and find the entertainment value in it. I bet if I watched "American Beauty" and "V For Vendetta", I would find them enjoyable, but probably not for the same reasons as you. Does this mean I don't "get it"? Maybe, but why should that matter? I'd get what I wanted to get out of it, and there is no reason why I should be forced to find more, just because it might be there.

 

[Gil]

One thing that has always bugged me is that there probably is a deeper meaning to the Star Wars movies but I could never figure it out. I've heard ideas that it represented the Cold War, the Vietnam War, the US's imperial nature, and Communism, but I always thought these were a bit far fetched. I believe many movies have a deeper meaning but most of us either don't pick up on it or really care to pick up on it.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but think "cowboy story, set in outer space"
All the themes are there.
The good guys are flawed,
Some of the bad guys aren't all bad, or are trying to make their way back to good. (See about half of Audie Murphy's old cowboy movies)
In the end, all that the good guys are trying to achieve is a home that is safe for little girls to walk down the streets unmolested at night.👍
And the citizenry can live free and pursue their simple dreams.

Yes my view is simple, but it's pretty much the same as many episodes of "Gunsmoke", "Bonanza", and "Have Gun will Travel".

 

[Danoff]

I haven't seen either one of those movies, so I can't comment. I'm not arguing that certain movies/scenes aren't powerful and provocative, nor am I arguing that movies should be of "Dude, Where's My Car?" simplicity. I'm arguing that if I have to sit and figure out why a seemingly-crappy movie is actually good because the film-maker is trying to be clever, then it is not a well-made film, and there is no reason why I should have to go and find the entertainment value in it. I bet if I watched "American Beauty" and "V For Vendetta", I would find them enjoyable, but probably not for the same reasons as you. Does this mean I don't "get it"? Maybe, but why should that matter? I'd get what I wanted to get out of it, and there is no reason why I should be forced to find more, just because it might be there.

I'm not necessarily talking about some kind of subtle reference - though that sort of thing can be very enjoyable too. I'm talking about really understanding the theme of the movie. You watched the Lord of the Rings no doubt. Did you understand that the story was about innocence and corruption (among other things)? If so, you're probably thinking enough to understand the movie. You probably watched Fight Club. If so, did you understand that the movie was about finding meaning (among other things)? If not, then you didn't really understand the movie.

So what? You might ask. Well, if you're too stupid or lazy to understand what you're watching, then you're missing the majority of the entertainment. You don't know it because you don't understand what you missed - but it would be like getting into a porsche and refusing to drive it at anything over 1/4th throttle, like never climaxing during sex, like smelling, but not eating a great meal. Yes, you're getting some enjoyment out of it, but only the surface layer.

 

[Kylehnat]

If not, then you didn't really understand the movie.

Why is there a correct interpretation of this artform? If I "understand" the movie differently than you, why am I wrong?

So what? You might ask. Well, if you're too stupid or lazy to understand what you're watching, then you're missing the majority of the entertainment.

Do you also get more enjoyment from a song if you pick it apart, note by note? A painting, stroke by stroke? If you do, that's perfectly fine, but you can't use that standard to judge how much I enjoy them.

 

[superberkut]

I absorb a movie, literally getting immersed into the plot, feeling for the main character and all others as he/she negotiates the narrative. However, due to this, I do not think afterwards, and sometimes I have trouble believing that I exist in a body; I feel very detached. The same goes for presentations.

Edit: To be specific, I notice all the symbolism and hidden meanings, but I come off stupified afterwards.

 

[Danoff]

Why is there a correct interpretation of this artform? If I "understand" the movie differently than you, why am I wrong?

There is a correct interpretation of what the writer was trying to say.

Do you also get more enjoyment from a song if you pick it apart, note by note? A painting, stroke by stroke? If you do, that's perfectly fine, but you can't use that standard to judge how much I enjoy them.

Those are not analogous. You still hear ever note and see every stroke if you don't analyze each one. But if you're not understanding the movie, you're not even hearing most of the notes.

 

[sn00pie]

Danoff, did you see Lost in Translation by Sofia Coppola?