Do you think GT Academy is fixed?

[Voodoovaj]

Having spent most of my almost all of my 46 year around video games, you come to realise that the great wonder of games is that they allow all types of people to experience all types of scenarios that would not be possible in their real lives.

I find is strangely coincidental that all the GT Academy finalists/winners are guys who are fit and properly proportioned to be race car drivers. There isn't one out of shape, overly tall, excessively short, overweight, underweight, or otherwise "normal" person in the final group.

It might be a physics thing, but it seems unnatural.

 

[f40]

Surely it's natural that the best people at a "real driving simulator" will be "real drivers".

 

[Blitz24]

How is it fixed? There aren't many people who are skilled at GT6 (or any racing game) to the point that they can be professional race car drivers. If it's fixed, then the promotions for it are equally as pointless.

 

[smskeeter23]

If memory serves correctly you'll find that so far every winner has had some sort of driving/racing experience in the past. So I'm not certain either one totally applies. They're drivers who are also gamers I guess.

However, Brian Heikotter was quite obviously not who they wanted to win (but even he had racing experience). You could see it in the judges faces and reactions when it happened. Above that look at the "career" he's been given since he won. Out of all the winners he has been really hidden in a corner.

 

[VBR]

I find is strangely coincidental that all the GT Academy finalists/winners are guys who are fit and properly proportioned to be race car drivers. There isn't one out of shape, overly tall, excessively short, overweight, underweight, or otherwise "normal" person in the final group.

That's not strange at all. In order to be a real racing driver you have to be very fit, & that's what they're looking for; people with the potential to become real racing drivers. Just because you can drive fast in a sim doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to fulfill all the other requirements of a real life racing driver.

It's not "fixed" at all, they're just weeding out all the undesirables including those who are "...out of shape..." etc.



👍

 

[Famine]

I take it you've never seen the finalists or read anything I've written about GT Academy then?

Aside from the fact that a fitness test is part of the determining factor at the National Finals (usually press-ups, planking, vertical jump and Bleep) and then again at Race Camp (usually a punishing assault course) and all the finalists have medicals, the winners themselves aren't exactly homogenous.

Karl Chard, the guy who eventually won the entire UK group and represented the UK in the final race at GT Academy this year is no lightweight - even after he shucked a couple of kilos between the UK National Final and Race Camp (I've not weighed him personally, but he looks slightly less padded than me and I've got a BMI of 25.1). Florian Strauss (DEU 2013) is wider across the shoulders than Mr. Incredible, Wolfgang Reip (EU 2012) is too tall to fit into a single seat, open wheel formula car of any kind and Steve Doherty (US 2012) is... not the tallest chap I've met (no offence, @BICDRIVER49 ) - I'm about average height of 5'10" and I've got a bit of elevation on him.

In fact, check this picture of Wolfie and Steve after they shared a race seat:

​

You wouldn't recognise Wolfie's physique now, compared to that!

That notwithstanding, the Academy winners go through a fitness program that works them out to whatever they'll be driving. Jann (again, no offence @TECHNIKRS4 ) was a skinny kid and while I think I've got more than 20kg on him still I don't think I'd like to arm wrestle him - anyone who can drive a GP3 car for a full race weekend has got some arms on them and he can hit a brake pedal that requires more equivalent force than having one and a half of my fat asses sat square on it. The driver development program makes these guys racers.

GT Academy is designed to find a guy who fits into a lot of boxes - you're not going to find a short, obese guy winning it but even if you do he won't stay that way for long. Is it fixed? Not a bit of it.

 

[ColouredBadger]

I'm not so sure it's completely fixed but systematically picking the most suitable from the candidates. As the OP said, all the drivers seem to be around the same kind of build, shape and size. Which seems odd as you don't need to be extremely fit to be a racing driver. Anyone can get into motorsport without the help from PD or Nissan. In England anyone can enter the British Touring Cars if you can find funding. It's literally 2 years of getting your licenses and then you can jump straight in with the top drivers no matter what size/shape/age you are. The tallest person in the BTCC is 6 foot 6 and some are considered over their Body Mass Index, others are in their 40's and 50's but all of them are professional racing drivers getting paid £250,000 (do the exchange rate) or more a year. And it's the same all round the world.

I think the entire GT Academy is just a marketing point to say "Look how realistic our game is, we make real racing drivers. We're also backed by the FIA so buy our game, it's awesome 👍". That's all it is I think.

 

[Lawndart]

Surely it's natural that the best people at a "real driving simulator" will be "real drivers".

There is some truth to this, though it does not apply to me personally.

There is also those that are particularly in tune with digital mediums and know how to go to the limits of the game. Myself, I do what I would do in real life so I'm actually slower in game because curbs aren't slick in real life, putting a wheel in the dirt is very bad in most real life cases, and inducing drift is like slamming on the ebrake in real life...

So I have a lot of respect for these guys, anyone can be tought to be fast in a race car, not as much the case in a video game...

I too am a bit suprised we don't see more heavy guys, or at least a girl or two... (That alone would boost ratings and justify some degree of fixing).

Most are suprised at how many girl racers are at real race events... There is at least 2-3 in most races I've been in... My team feilded an all girl car just last year. But one almost died getting pitted head first into the wall at sears turn one and the whole car was destroyed... So bad it went to the crusher. But I digress.

 

[mister dog]

Would like to see a fat guy kicking virtual behind on GTA though. Shame he would get trashed at camp Kaz's physical tests afterwards, and the lesser of the aliens end up with the actual seat...

 

[mustafur]

I'm not so sure it's completely fixed but systematically picking the most suitable from the candidates. As the OP said, all the drivers seem to be around the same kind of build, shape and size. Which seems odd as you don't need to be extremely fit to be a racing driver. Anyone can get into motorsport without the help from PD or Nissan. In England anyone can enter the British Touring Cars if you can find funding. It's literally 2 years of getting your licenses and then you can jump straight in with the top drivers no matter what size/shape/age you are. The tallest person in the BTCC is 6 foot 6 and some are considered over their Body Mass Index, others are in their 40's and 50's but all of them are professional racing drivers getting paid £250,000 (do the exchange rate) or more a year. And it's the same all round the world.

I think the entire GT Academy is just a marketing point to say "Look how realistic our game is, we make real racing drivers. We're also backed by the FIA so buy our game, it's awesome 👍". That's all it is I think.

iI'l just tell you straight away that what you think they are Payed is soo far off the truth.

I think you will find those that are not in a Factory team or Big Private team will be actually paying to drive.
Your looking at statistics without looking at the individual, for example Matt Neal the one your using as an example as a Tall driver, is probably of the best tin top drivers in the World and has been for over 15 years, but his height makes him unable to do Open wheelers.

But being a GT academy Finalist myself I don't exactly know where being tall prohibits your chance to win(i mean look at Wolfgang Riep he is quite tall) considering the main prize is a race seat in a GT Style Race car.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I take it you've never seen the finalists or read anything I've written about GT Academy then?

Aside from the fact that a fitness test is part of the determining factor at the National Finals (usually press-ups, planking, vertical jump and Bleep) and then again at Race Camp (usually a punishing assault course) and all the finalists have medicals, the winners themselves aren't exactly homogenous.

...

GT Academy is designed to find a guy who fits into a lot of boxes - you're not going to find a short, obese guy winning it but even if you do he won't stay that way for long. Is it fixed? Not a bit of it.

In my opinion though, this IS fixing the result. The competition is pitched to the community as a chance to become a real racer

...unless you're not in good shape, in which case you are S.O.L.

I want to see the out of shape guys getting into shape to be better competitors AFTER they win the competition. Somewhere out there, there's a guy who is currently out of shape, or even obese, but is also the best racer the world has ever known. I also wonder how many current race drivers could pass the fitness tests. Sure, some drivers are in fantastic shape, but some are not big on working out at all.

Maybe I'm a jaded skeptic (well, no maybe there)

 

[nuerphil]

I#ve made the experience that the fastest and best wins
But during Race Camp happen strange things as you know. Much bases on the Benchmark session, where GTA gets to know who should reach the final and who not.
As a result they kick out slower drivers at a challenge, where a faster guy failed. For example : The instructors drove at the traffic challenge more aggressive when the slower guy drived, because the favourite failed in this challenge. In the end the favourite won GT Academy. The slower guy was out .

In general more people with racing experiences get into the finals. This year in Germany, I was the only "real gamer" in the top8

 

[Famine]

In my opinion though, this IS fixing the result. The competition is pitched to the community as a chance to become a real racer

...unless you're not in good shape, in which case you are S.O.L.

Hey, it turns out that I really suck at one of the disciplines - the Gran Turismo one.

Guess it must be rigged.

I want to see the out of shape guys getting into shape to be better competitors AFTER they win the competition. Somewhere out there, there's a guy who is currently out of shape, or even obese, but is also the best racer the world has ever known.

Okay. Is it just fat guys you want to see win or will a skinny kid like Jann or even Wolfie do you?

I also wonder how many current race drivers could pass the fitness tests.

All of them.

You misunderstand the nature of the fitness tests. They aren't a minimum standard - like, you must be able to do 50 press ups to qualify. Actually, they're not even tests of your fitness. They're tests of your mindset - everyone has a wall (I can do ONE press up at best - I've never been able to do them because my ass and thighs weigh four times what my arms and shoulders do) and it's not about where your wall is, but how hard you try to break through it... They can train you so your wall is further away, but you have to want to break through your walls first.

Attitude is possibly the biggest factor in determining a GT Academy winner. I've now met all of them except Bryan and Nick (and this year's German finalist) and despite the wide range of heights, weights and nationalities they have one thing in common - and it's something you can't train easily for.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Hey, it turns out that I really suck at one of the disciplines - the Gran Turismo one.

By this comment I assume you are insinuating that I am somehow bitter that I, myself, have not made it.

This is not the case. I merely brought this up as a discussion point. Just a way to gauge opinion, just opinions. I'm middle aged, so If I want to go racing...I just go and I prefer two wheels btw. I'm no where near fast enough to race at any pace above fast group at track day level on the bikes so I doubt that it would be any different in a car.

Okay. Is it just fat guys you want to see win or will a skinny kid like Jann or even Wolfie do you?

It isn't necessarily the fitness alone. It's also personalities, ethnicity, etc. I'm not saying it definitely IS rigged, but as mentioned, it is a marketing exercise and, as such, I doubt the true fairness of it all.

What it comes down to, for me, is that whenever I see scenes or pictures, it seems oddly unlike a meeting of gamers. It's a completely irrational position to take, I understand that. Something just doesn't seem right about it.

 

[Famine]

By this comment I assume you are insinuating that I am somehow bitter that I, myself, have not made it.

Nope. I'm pointing out that I suck at the Gran Turismo discipline required to qualify.

I also suck at the fitness one - I'm 36 and have knees that would be better amputated.

I'm a bit crap at the driving part too. Also I kinda hate people and find interviews a chore.

Otherwise I'm an amazing guy who should win GT Academy. So basically it's all fixed to stop me winning.

It isn't necessarily the fitness alone. It's also personalities, ethnicity, etc. I'm not saying it definitely IS rigged, but as mentioned, it is a marketing exercise and, as such, I doubt the true fairness of it all.

What it comes down to, for me, is that whenever I see scenes or pictures, it seems oddly unlike a meeting of gamers. It's a completely irrational position to take, I understand that. Something just doesn't seem right about it.

I don't really know what you're getting at.

It seems like you're saying it should only be a competition to find out who's fastest at Gran Turismo - fitness and actual driving ability should be ignored - and then asking Nismo to sink a few tens of thousands of pounds into getting them their 12 signatures to get a race at Dubai - and asking Bob Neville to put this untested spod into his very expensively prepared racing cars.

Do you just want to see fat knackers crashing race cars because they're crap?


There's a NASCAR joke in there somewhere.

 

[ColouredBadger]

iI'l just tell you straight away that what you think they are Payed is soo far off the truth.

I think you will find those that are not in a Factory team or Big Private team will be actually paying to drive.
Your looking at statistics without looking at the individual, for example Matt Neal the one your using as an example as a Tall driver, is probably of the best tin top drivers in the World and has been for over 15 years, but his height makes him unable to do Open wheelers.

Drivers in the factory teams are paid to drive for them and the field is made up of 90% factory teams so if you're good enough as a privateer then you'll get in. Just like Matt Neal did. But, he did well in his first season and then got offered a drive and has been paid ever since. There are also bonuses for privateers, like a race win reward and other rewards for championship finishes. I know this because someone I went to school with races in the Clio Cup an he is paid for driving with KX Racing, he's in the number 4 car. It's not that much as it's a support race group but £45k a year still isn't bad and he's been nowhere near GT Academy and can afford to drive around in a Mercedes C Class AMG. I digress. My point is that you don't need a silly competition on a game to be a racing driver. You can just do it if you really want to.

The GT Academy is about GT3 racing and some open wheelers as well as LMP2's. They can't have bulky drivers over 6 feet tall in those kinds of cars because they simply won't fit, hence why I believe they are chosen from the crop. I personally can't see where there'd be much of a difference between the finalists ability wise so they can pick and choose as they please, picking the more suited drivers to race for Nismo.

 

[GumballCGT]

There are a number of factors that they look at when narrowing down the field to finally choose their winner. Do they have favorites, of course. But, there will always be standouts in any competition. It's not just one's speed in a car, or their physical fitness, etc. There are guys who are plenty quick but may have terrible media skills, bad attitude, inconsistency, you get the point...To say it's fixed is a long shot. I've been through the whole process and now having talked to instructors and how they decide who stays around I can personally say they look at more things than I could name off. Most of us (unless you're part of the decision process) only see the surface of the contestants potential.

They choose someone with the natural talent and someone that can be trained quickly to be a top amateur racing driver in a few months. They don't have a year or two to work with someone on getting them up to speed in the car or in good physical shape. If they did, well, the program wouldn't be what it is today.

For myself, at the time I won I would say I was pretty average in all areas but they saw good potential with my speed in a car. I had good media presentation skills, I'm pretty young, my fitness was alright, I had nothing to hold me back (house payments, a family, etc.), so they saw they could really mold me and possibly push me into a future with racing as opposed to a one year wonder (which I hope doesn't happen haha).

So all in all it's just like them interviewing you for a job. They pick who has the most potential and can fill the spot to do the job. Those who don't do it as well as they want them to are the ones you don't see much or if at all. Just had to give some insight on the topic

 

[Rhykus Finlay]

Um, how exactly would someone out of shape be able to win a racing competition of any kind, off of a video game? It's not fixed...it's just kind of obvious...

 

[FSportIS]

Having spent most of my almost all of my 46 year around video games, you come to realise that the great wonder of games is that they allow all types of people to experience all types of scenarios that would not be possible in their real lives.

I find is strangely coincidental that all the GT Academy finalists/winners are guys who are fit and properly proportioned to be race car drivers. There isn't one out of shape, overly tall, excessively short, overweight, underweight, or otherwise "normal" person in the final group.

It might be a physics thing, but it seems unnatural.

In one of the US Academy back in 2012, I saw one fat guy and couple skinny guys in there. The fat guy i believe had a homeless background. He was miserable and funny going through all the physical tests but he tried very hard. He advanced to the top 8 or 10 but then got eliminated. In the final top 4 survivors, there are two skinny guys who are fast too. All of this is available on youtube.

Therefore, I think it is fair. I think whoever can drive not only fast both in virtual world and real world but also faster than many hundreds of thousands other drivers, deserves the win.

Another point is, to be in there the first place, they need to be super fast driving in the same GT events that EVERYONE has a chance to try. If they were to randomly pick someone then it is unfair but they pick the top so as long as you get to the top, you would have chance. They did not know if they were fat, skinny, out of shape or whatever.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Nope. I'm pointing out that I suck at the Gran Turismo discipline required to qualify.

I also suck at the fitness one - I'm 36 and have knees that would be better amputated.

I'm a bit crap at the driving part too. Also I kinda hate people and find interviews a chore.

Otherwise I'm an amazing guy who should win GT Academy. So basically it's all fixed to stop me winning.I don't really know what you're getting at.

Then we are in the same boat

It seems like you're saying it should only be a competition to find out who's fastest at Gran Turismo - fitness and actual driving ability should be ignored - and then asking Nismo to sink a few tens of thousands of pounds into getting them their 12 signatures to get a race at Dubai - and asking Bob Neville to put this untested spod into his very expensively prepared racing cars.

Do you just want to see fat knackers crashing race cars because they're crap?


There's a NASCAR joke in there somewhere.

Almost. I'm saying that the best players should go, with no regard to any other attribute (for instance, Canadians are not allowed). And then, it should be ONLY driving ability, with no other qualifying factor. So, if a dude is slower because he's 100kg overweight, then that's fair. But if that same guy gets eliminated because he didn't pass an arbitrary physical, that's a bit unfair. This applies to any other potential physical impairment. I want to know that they are slower on track, not that someone predetermined that they were unfit.

And yes, I want to see Nismo but money behind that, and YES, i want to see them end up in a very expensive car.

Basically, I would be happier seeing some idiot savant get in then anyone else . Maybe I just like the underdog too much.

I like stories like this one -> http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/web-originals/john-jock-horsfall-works-driver-secret-agent

Or this one -> http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/131963-the-incredible-drunk-story-of-duncan-hamilton



...and let the idiot savant/Canadian jokes begin

There are guys who are plenty quick but may have terrible media skills, bad attitude, inconsistency, you get the point.

Agreed. Like Kimi Raikkonen

 

[Rhykus Finlay]

Then we are in the same boat



Almost. I'm saying that the best players should go, with no regard to any other attribute (for instance, Canadians are not allowed). And then, it should be ONLY driving ability, with no other qualifying factor. So, if a dude is slower because he's 100kg overweight, then that's fair. But if that same guy gets eliminated because he didn't pass an arbitrary physical, that's a bit unfair. This applies to any other potential physical impairment. I want to know that they are slower on track, not that someone predetermined that they were unfit.

And yes, I want to see Nismo but money behind that, and YES, i want to see them end up in a very expensive car.

Basically, I would be happier seeing some idiot savant get in then anyone else . Maybe I just like the underdog too much.

I like stories like this one -> http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/web-originals/john-jock-horsfall-works-driver-secret-agent

Or this one -> http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/131963-the-incredible-drunk-story-of-duncan-hamilton



...and let the idiot savant/Canadian jokes begin

Okay, I think I see the point now, skill level should be the only determining factor. But that just won't work, NISMO wants DRIVERS, and the competition is for DRIVERS, using GT as a basic qualifying factor. If they guy isn't fit enough to compete in GT Academy, there is now way they could ever compete in the 24 hour races some of these guys are in. Or really any racing...

Oh, and I don't understand the Canadian joke. I'm sure it's offensive, but I don't really know why. o.O

 

[Famine]

Almost. I'm saying that the best players should go, with no regard to any other attribute (for instance, Canadians are not allowed).

That's the selection process - and Canadians (well... except Quebecois) were allowed this year.

And then, it should be ONLY driving ability, with no other qualifying factor. So, if a dude is slower because he's 100kg overweight, then that's fair. But if that same guy gets eliminated because he didn't pass an arbitrary physical, that's a bit unfair.

While there is a physical - there has to be in order that the person can be judged medically fit to get a racing licence - that's not what the fitness test is for.

You're not worse if you run a stage 4 Bleep than a guy who runs a stage 12 - you can be worse if you stop at 12 because everyone else has already stopped and there's no point pushing yourself, and better if you hit your limit at stage 3 and you have to crawl 4.1. As above, so below for 1 press up vs 50 or a 1 minute plank vs a 5 minute one. Or being physically dead after half of the assault course but dragging yourself to the end and starting again vs. running two complete laps of the assault course well within yourself.

This applies to any other potential physical impairment. I want to know that they are slower on track, not that someone predetermined that they were unfit.

It's (not quite) all about attitude. Had they picked someone better at driving than Jann in 2011 (and Jann wasn't necessarily the fastest there) but without the attitude to push themselves, we wouldn't have a GP3 driving GTA graduate on his way to F1. Jann's the rare perfect storm of someone who had the latent talent and the attitude to seize the chance and push himself and, while Lucas and Wolfgang have done some pretty amazing things (and I'm sure Mark, Steve, Peter, Nick, Stanislav, Florian, Miguel, Gaetan & unnamed German driver will follow), he's the benchmark that shows it works.

He qualified through being one of the very best Gran Turismo players - and that alone.


Incidentally, I've been to (I think) three national finals and three Race Camps (with a fourth to follow next week). It is actually amazing to see the guys who were gamers at the national final getting into the cars for the final race camp race as full-on racing drivers - with only a week of tuition.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Oh, and I don't understand the Canadian joke. I'm sure it's offensive, but I don't really know why. o.O

Merely because I mentioned Idiot Savants and Canadians in the same post, and we are a self deprecating bunch. It's all the poutine we eat.

 

[jimipitbull]

Having spent most of my almost all of my 46 year around video games, you come to realise that the great wonder of games is that they allow all types of people to experience all types of scenarios that would not be possible in their real lives.

I find is strangely coincidental that all the GT Academy finalists/winners are guys who are fit and properly proportioned to be race car drivers. There isn't one out of shape, overly tall, excessively short, overweight, underweight, or otherwise "normal" person in the final group.

It might be a physics thing, but it seems unnatural.

Nintendo Academy will tip the scales at normal people*

*people must be overweight

 

[TRC Scooty]

It's not fixed and Steve wasn't in good shape (ie fit) when he won GTA2012. You can't control your height and general build, but you can certainly choose to be fit or not. Won't necessarily effect whether or not you win, but if you do win they'll whip your ass into shape regardless. Pretty sure Steve stays more active and trim these days, has to do a lot of climbing podiums .

 

[Morphisor]

I do not think there is any fixing with regard to fitness or anything similar. I am however finding it curious how often the winner turns out to have previous racing experience. Especially considering the judges themselves say they look for those with the most potential to improve - someone with previous experience is much more likely to be closer to their ceiling than someone without.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

I can only think of two really good pro drivers who were big enough to look out of shape - Gerry Marshall who many consider to be the UK's best ever tin top driver and on the short list for best ever UK driver. The other is Jose Froilan Gonzalez the Argentinian Le Man winner and ex F1 driver from the 1950's in honour of whom the phrase "Speedy Gonzalez" was coined.

Racing is much more physical now than it was in Gonzalez or even Marshall's day so it's no surprise to me that out of shape looking guys get eliminated.


Regarding the previous experience driving skills are one of the main things assessed and someone with previous race experience is likely to do better on the driving challenges.

 

[Famine]

Regarding the previous experience driving skills are one of the main things assessed and someone with previous race experience is likely to do better on the driving challenges.

But much worse on the second benchmark - by not improving as much as their less experienced competitor.

 

[FSportIS]

I do think they take consistency into account. If they are consistently hitting the same and slightly better lap time. They are still seen as great candidate. However, I think if someone consistently improving their time in several trials, that is seen as more favorable as this attribute is seen as quick learning, adapting, and improvising which is needed in this sport.

 

[Filip_Ovik]

For all the gamers out there working hard for a spot to the race camp, it is possible to go far even if you don't have racing experience. Last year when I was going to the race camp I went to the nearest go cart club three times doing 8 minutes session and that was basically all real life training for me.

My car at home has 82 hp (Volvo 142 from 1972) so I had never been driving faster than 140 kph/90 mph.

On the physic side I made it to level 9 in the beep test, actually dropping out first of us seven regions winners.

In first benchmark I got 1:13.1 and in second 1:09.1, improved by 4 seconds, from slowest to fastest out of all groups!

I even got pole position in the semifinal race, but finished 3rd in the final race unfortunately (everyone that has followed GT Academy knows that if you win the final race you are the overall winner (if we look back at previous years)).

It was a great experience though!