Do you think GT4 is incomplete?

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if I didnt have an HDTV, I would be a lot more pissed about GT4. The 1080i graphics, DFP support & a couple nice track additions, saved it from being very dissapointing.
However, I have to agree with the PS2 Limitation Theories. I truly think that GT5 will rebound BIGTIME, simply because of the PS3's true 1080i, DTS sound, and BlueRays higher capacity, thus eliminating the need to cut some prior series track favorites.
Hopefully they improve the menus, add online, add back Garage 2player battles but use stock Garage with online, add back ability to save/load to specific memory card, reduce amount of crap repetitive cars(ie skylines), cut the 24 hour Endurance races that are pointless since most peeps just set it to autopilot anyway, bring back the prizecar roulette wheel(eh, cheesy fun), better AI(duh), dump or improve how penalty is initiated.
 
i don't know about it being incomplete, but it's a lot more sorted than GT2 was.

that game was so disappointing with the stupid spelling mistakes and cars called 'XJR vehicle' and 'preceiding model' - it's as if they only needed another day or two...

i bought GT4 because i found out it had the old Nurburgring and the old Sarthe and i've been pleasantly surprised with the cool cars in it. but they could go much further with it.

what i want most from this game is to drive cars i will never own (or even see in person!) on tracks that i will never be on, or don't even exist anymore. i could care less about the 'realism' of race cars and physics and all that crap. i want to drive the porsche 917 and 956, the 60's trans-am mustangs and camaros, the pre-war GP cars, and i want to drive them on the greatest courses of all time; monza, spa-francorchamps, watkins glen, the mille miglia, the targa florio.

GT is real enough, now really make it the ultimate.
 
"There's no such thing as a final copy, only deadlines."

People bash GT4 but I pulled out my copy of GT3 yesterday and realized how far GT4 came from GT3. Cars don't feel as stable or weighty in GT3 and you have no real feeling. GT4's graphics aren't amazing anymore by any means, but they're a big step up from GT3's generally speaking. The only single thing that's worse in GT4 is the menu system.
 
Hello buddies,

Yep I also think the PS2 capacities down that magic GT4 that PD promised us.
And sure I was a little disappointed too with the 'special cars' at the beginning but now I enjoy it, the photo mode is awesome.
Concerning the DFP use, I must admit that is very transformed the game into sim and it is truely harder but more realistic if you can have a good cockpit 💡

But PD should have to debug it better, I mean the stuff that's appeared and put you at 80kms/h at the end of some races shoudn't occur :yuck: and I am still very upset that the penalties only work for us and not for the IA and that IA is still too stupid to not adjust its pace after a couple of out of track :ouch: and finally yep the wear of tyres is not realistic at all (40kms in medium should be 120~130) and where is the day/night change in the 24 hours races (I had it on that old "Le Mans 24") ?

But I must admit that the GT serie is still my favorite and GT4 is really the number one now (ha gach GT3 maybe...) and it's worth for the price and the hours I spend each day :dopey: so ya it is incomplete for me only in the senseof that undebugged stuff :guilty: but it is really a good game.
Otherwise why I have brought a PS2, a DFP and GT4 in US if I already have them in France ... I love it... that's it :sly:

Friendly,
Tiper
 
Put it this way, no game ever is perfect. In terms of being incomplete, I don't think so, the game is what it is, now perhaps they could have added some features, but would they have made more money? Would the extra work be worth it? How many more months should we have waited?

I mean, it will always be incomplete because there are always things to add, even if it's a solitaire mode you can play during the 24hr races.
 
as far as adding more stuff onto the game, from what i understand, PD was planning on using the online mode and the PS2 hard-drive to add new cars into the game as well as new tracks later on...when PS2 came out with the slim version (and no hard-drive support) PD said, OK, screw that....and packed as much stuff as they could into GT4...thats why the deadline for the game release kept on moving back...and moving back...and moving back....i think this is one of the many reasons for the shortcomings of GT4....a few things that were obviously improved from gt3 are the graphics...and i think the physics were improved as well...you get a better sense of speed from the game....i actually get nervous when doing 220MPH in the minolta on sarthe....gt3 was too smooth....i was disappointed in the type of cars that were in the game too....the amount of race cars was OK...but having the mercedes-benz motorcarriages and the ford model-t??? i understand the historical significance...and possibly giving these cars out on easy prizes...but having the ford model-t being rewarded for all gold s-license?? what a joke....
 
I fear I'm gonna be bashed here, but this is my story (and rant):

1. having convinced the mrs. that the PS2 was good for our children to play games, and also a not too expensive DVD player (so we could see some movies), I finally bought my PS2, I think it was in early 2002. And I bought it together with GT3 and the Logitech DF.

2. until GT4 was released I played intensively GT3, than GTC, than GT4:P

3. The only other racing game that made me stop playing PD's games for a while was 24H Le Mans. And I played that game always hoping that GT4, when released, would also have endurance races, dynamic weather, day/night cycles, at least 20 cars on track (LM has it, and it's a 2000 game).

4. GT4 became available at the local store where I usually buy games, by midnight of a particular day (can't remember exactly the date). I was there since 11h30, and even pre-ordered the game just in case. Left the store, with the game in my hand, at about 1:00 am, and I played it that night up until 4:00 am.

5. It was overall a better game than GT3, but the feeling I increasingly got from it was that it was "more of the same". More cars, more tracks, more races, and more graphic detail (even if less than the "litle", but very enjoyable, GT4:P).

6. Anyway, it was my new toy, and I played it intensively, night after night after night, until I started to get a growing feeling of boredom ... at about 85% of game completion (everything made except the enduros. Can't stand 24 hours straight in A-Spec, can't keep the kids away from the PS2 for several days and I refuse to use the stupid B-Spec thing. That's not even a poor team-manager sim, it's just a way to make us forget that they didn't want or didn't know how to allow midrace saves ... ).

7. And this - the feeling of boredom - never happened with GT3, a game I played many times in three years, restarting from scratch, GT mode after GT mode.

8. In May, Enthusia was released, and I also bought it (didn't pre-order, didn't leave the house at night to buy it, it was just a question of "hmmm, let's see how it is ...")

9. At first this game wasn't glamorous. The dark menus seem outdated, the game structure is confusing, and the immediate comparison with GT4 is: a) less cars; b) less tracks; c) less races; d) dark nurburgring; e) undriveable cars.

10. However, I kept (still keep) playing and replaying it, alwasy finding new chalenges, interstingenough to get me going. I won't go in detail about it here (you guys have a Enthusia forum in these boards so here it would be out of place to do it).

11. And ... I never even touched GT4 again. For almost a year now.

12. Why? Well, I think because GT4 has no re-playability value. And because the races there seem ... fake. The AI opponents are laughable, and when they aren't it is because there's ONE car in the lineup that blows the competition ... except you (maybe).

13. I won't say anything about the physics, there are members of these boards that have incredible knowledge about that (I remember particularly Scaff - that thinks overall GT4 is the winner - and Wolfe 2x7 - that thinks the same about Enthusia), so I will just say that the GT4 physics engine didn't impress me.

14. I have always been, and still am - even if, by now, people who had the patience of reading this rant think otherwise - a PD fan. I still think those guys have, with the GT series, really pushed the console racing games to a level difficult to imagine a few years ago.

15. But I think GT4 fell short of the heritage of its predecessors. I regard it as a false step, probably dued to the impossibility of delaying once again its release.

16. Until I have the PS3 and GT5 at home (and I plan to buy them both as soon as GT5 is released, unless other racing sim for the PS3 is released earlier), I don't think I'll pick GT4 from the shelf very often. If ever.
 
The course I mean is the one in GT3 that is very long, has a lot of crazy curves, long straights, and you can only practice in it.


You run this course when you have to pass some License Tests, I believe that part of this course is the final test of the IA license.
 
soptom
Stop moaning, the game isn't perfect, what game is? Are you?
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I think you misunderstand people's complaints. Of course no game is perfect. But the complaints are not about perfection, they are about expectations. People that played the previous GT games got to expect a certain level of improvement from game to game. Also PD made grandiose promises about what GT4 was going to be. And the simple fact is... the improvements fell short, and there were even some features that didn't work as well as people would like.

The hope remains that GT5 will correct these limitations.
 
ket01084
The course I mean is the one in GT3 that is very long, has a lot of crazy curves, long straights, and you can only practice in it.
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Ah, Complex String.
 
(First Post! :-D) - I understand that everyone here has noticed that GT4 was dumbed down for the PS2, Right? Many promised features were taken out so the PS2 could handle the load of GT4 and its left many people unsatisfied. I have had experience with every GT Series game except GT2 AND GT Concept, so I was wondering, Did the same thing happen in GT3? Did promised features get left out?, did it take long to develop?, etc... I know that the PS2 Compared to the original absolutely blows it away no argument, but besides the graphics, storage, and processing power offered by the PS2; were there features left out, or ditched for seemingly non-existent reasons? If so, Maybe with the 5th(ish) increment of Gran Turismo, We could notice a pattern perhaps? And if not, All I can predict is that if the release date for GT5 will be a lot later than expected, that either means PD is working on the improvements and catching up from what they missed in GT4, Or they are taking their sweet ol' time. Hopefully, GT5 is released very close to the PS3 release date, like GT3 was released with the PS2, And hopefully following on the scale of improvements that GT3 Did with its predecessor, GT2, We can expect everything and more, from GT5.

- King Klick, Addicted to GT Since 4th Grade.
 
Mr. Boy
The AI is rubbish, online play was pulled at the last minute, and there were lots of delays leading up to the release of the game. All these problems lead me to believe that it needed an extra year or so of development before it was released. Its as if they couldn't give us a brand-new AI engine or online play because time had run out. They could have delayed the game to Christmas 2005, but they delayed it so many times already, that it wouldn't make any sense to delay it again. GT4 is great as it is, but I think they need to release a GT4 2.0 or something like that.

Or maybe its just me.
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I have a feeling the whole "online play was pulled at the last minute" saying is untrue. Pulled at the last minute huh? Why is LAN play such **** then?

Even playing on a network is a friggin nightmare. How in the hell could they have gotten internet play working in their wildest dreams? Let's face it.. they focused most on making the game pretty. :/
 
Most of the things that disappointed me in GT4 have nothing to do with with the PS2 being limited but rather have the signs of being poorly thought out or just not cared (I won't list them since they've been mentioned many times by many people).

But I am surprised that LAN play is bad. Network play was just plain awesome in GT3 even if you did not have any AI players thrown into the mix. Would you mind elaborating what is wrong in GT4's LAN play?
 
KingKlick
I was wondering, Did the same thing happen in GT3? Did promised features get left out?, did it take long to develop?, etc... I know that the PS2 Compared to the original absolutely blows it away no argument, but besides the graphics, storage, and processing power offered by the PS2; were there features left out, or ditched for seemingly non-existent reasons?
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I didn't experience it first-hand, since I didn't get a PS2 or GT3 until long after they came out (and GT3 was my first GT), but I am aware of one big let-down that happened with GT2->GT3. GT3 didn't have nearly as many cars -- nor as much of a variety -- as GT2 did. :odd:

Why else do you think they went so crazy with GT4's cars? People were disappointed with GT3's selection, so "LOTS OF CARS" was written in big text on Polyphony Digital's dry-erase board during the planning of GT4. :lol:

And perhaps, concentrating on that one aspect led to the downsizing of other features. :indiff:

(By the way, welcome to GTPlanet! :) )
 
Having worked in development at a large software corporation, programs will always be incomplete and contain some bugs.

Here is how it is done:
1. New plans are developed for including or improving X, Y and Z.
2. X and Z are complete but Y is not.
3. The beta is delayed but eventually ships with X, Y(partially working) and Z.
4. Y is completed but a serious bug has been found in Z during beta.
5. The release date can not be pushed back any further.
6. Z is disabled and the program ships with only X and Y.
7. Z will be worked on for next version but will require modifications to both X and Y.
8. After release bugs are found in Y as it could not be fully tested during the beta cycle.
9. Go back to step 1.

All in all, I believe they did an excellent job on the game.
 
Cracker Jack
Having worked in development at a large software corporation, programs will always be incomplete and contain some bugs.
...
All in all, I believe they did an excellent job on the game.
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GT4 is a pretty good game, but I'd say the level of improvement is not up to the standard that PD set itself when they went from GT2 to GT3.

Compared to GT2, GT3 was a revolutionary improvement and it had far fewer "annoyances" than GT4, and GT4 was just what I'd call a next logical step - not the breakthrough that was anticipated by most long-time players.

Of course, it is still fun to play. :sly:
 
Polyhony needs to take all this into consideration and make the next GT so much better or else it will just get boring very quickely.
 
I whole heartedly agree... We were supposed to be able to paint cars aswell... and dont forget how ALL the cars were supposed to sound different... funny that my m5 at 7xx hp sounds the same as my all motor dc2 type r:crazy:
 
GT2 was HORRIBLY incomplete. All the praise people gave GT2, I had my doubts much like many others dissed GT4. Do I think GT4 is incomplete? Only if you think online play was the most important consideration. It had lots of cars, lots of tracks, an updated physics engine, of course... graphical improvements... but it's not incomplete. I'm not one of the ones saying "no online play, so in its place, we get a Photo Mode." I know I'm going to get laughed at and hated on, but I think the AI is actually better in GT4 than in GT3. I don't feel like GT4 forgot anything. The world came to an end (to many people) when their favorite racing game dropped online play after deliberately trying to work on it to make it happen... all for it to be dropped. I've said that it was the problem many people had because they let online play decide a game's success rather than the actual game. I know what I've been told in this forum. Someone said that I should get my head out of my ass. What happened as the thread became a flame fest? We were warned about starting a big argument in a thread.

GT4 was about perfect. GT2 had drag racing cars, but no drag racing course except for the 0-400m and 0-1000m Test Course deals. I would have liked drag racing for GT2 to give a chance at using the drag racing cars. But did GT2 have it? No. GT2 didn't have a single racing event in any GTF-sanctioned championship that used Rome-Night. You wonder why this course was forgotten... because NOT ONE CHAMPIONSHIP USED IT!!! Only experience you'd have is racing it in a GT2 Super License test, and a One-Make race if you were lucky. Don't talk about incomplete unless you're comparing ANY GT to GT2. In fact, GT2 had that 98.5% completion bug to it. If that's not incomplete, I don't know what is. GT4 didn't have the completion flaws of GT2, so I'd say GT4 is pretty damn complete. GT2 was an experiment in incompletion; GT4 was no where near incomplete.
 
wfooshee
I agree completely. To me it's all but obvious that this was developed for the PS3, then had to be stripped for the PS2 when the PS3 took so long to get built.

On-line play? Well, the PS2 can't hack the lag. Sorry. OUT.

20-car grids? Well, you get a grid, we'll draw the stripes (they don't move, see?) but only 6 cars will be on it. Sorry. OUT.

Animated drivers in open cars? Cool, but too many polygons for the PS2. Those are now "Special" cars and you can only run them solo. Sorry. OUT.

Animated pit crews? Well, sure, but everything else has to disappear while we run that on the PS2, and then only in 2D. Sorry. OUT.

And the clincher, of course, is the GT4 logo on the pit crew uniforms in the GT5 preview video that's out there.

OTOH, I've been enjoying the game, the physics are good, I love that we get tracks that we never had before, although I miss Rome, Stage 11, etc. The Missions add a nice feature to have to beat, and while many lament the lack of certain cars, I love the heavy iron of the American muscle cars. Nothing like a Charger on the 'ring to explain why Europeans never had a "muscle-car" era like ours.
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And I would trade all of that for the chance to drive a Murcielago.

Don't bother me with real-world business obstacles; in my eyes, GT will never be complete without those companies included in the game.
 
JohnBM01
GT4 was about perfect.
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Really?
rofl.gif


See my signature tagline. That's been my opinion since before last May. It's a good beta, but nothing more.

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
wfooshee
I agree completely. To me it's all but obvious that this was developed for the PS3, then had to be stripped for the PS2 when the PS3 took so long to get built.
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In view of what Codemasters is about to bring out shortly, I highly doubt that. The PS3 hardware was nowhere NEAR being usable at the time PD was "working" on GT4, beyond a concept stage.

PD raised a bit of cash test marketing about 13 or more GT4 one-brand demos, to help pay their huge bills. I can't determine if these actually slowed them at all, though.

The thing that I am still very curious about is the exact reason why GT4 was delayed in December, just before its Japanese release. I have not seen the definitive explanation about that one and think it would have a close bearing on GT4's release condition. Sure, I've seen the same speculations that you have, but that isn't enough.

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
I never seen a reverse light go on when I go backwards. Maybe its pointless but still.... it's a real driving simulator so it should have that.
 
With all due respect: Tint, air fresheners, owners manuals, air conditioning, rear defrosters, bumper stickers, spare tires, and sunroofs are part of many cars, but there's no reason to implement them in a driving simulator game because it doesn't add anything.

Besides, you shouldn't be going backwards.
 
I don't think that GT4 is incomplete, no more than any other GT game. Of course there were things that were 'left out/dropped' from development - but i'm sure the same can be said about the development of any game title. Trouble is that GranTurismo has such a fan following that any nugget of information that gets officially or unofficially leaked about the game, gets so scrutenized that mere rumours get blown up into expected features and when these expected features never appear in the final game everyone gets disapointed.

GT1 was such a fantastic and original game and the improvement of GT2 seemed to feature everything from our wildest dreams. We've all come to expect that anything is possible when it comes to new versions of the game, PD try their hardest but can never produce a game that is everything to everyone.

GT2 and GT4 pretty much pushed the envelope when it came to PS1 and PS2 gaming. The next GranTurismo title will be an early PS3 title and will impress more than it will disappoint, but for many it will still be a disappointment and won't feature exactly what they think it should. The version after that will push the PS3 to it's limits and be a better game - but cycle will always be the same. At the end of the day GT titles, no matter how much of an disappointment they are to us, still get played probably more than any other game.

Its best to consider GranTurismo as a series of 'beta' versions of the most complete driving simulator ever. Every version gets closer to 'perfection' but none will ever be perfect.
 

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