Dodge Challenger News: 2009 R/T and SE Models Debut

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Joey D
some people really need to learn the word sarcasm and what it means.
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ditto

The point they are poorly made products and the Challenger is going to be the same way, another sub-par Chrysler model that a few people will buy but in the end the Mustang and Camaro will be better...but that's not saying much.
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unless you can time travel, i dont see how you can be so sure of this. The vehicles gonna be on a next gen platform under the watchful eye of new management. It may be the product that starts chryslers turnaround, it may bethe one that ensures their demise, but right now its just too early to tell.
 
Fine in my opinion the car is going to be utter rubbish when it finally does hit the streets. Better?

I just can not see Chrysler building a quality vehicle under American management and a UAW work force.
 
Uh-huh. When G.M. is doing exactly what you say? In fact, they're squaring up to have some of the best cars in the world. and made in America, by UAW workers, with American management. Hell, CAT has been putting out the best product in their category with management in Peoria, Illinois, not even Detroit, and those same UAW workers. (The D6-D11 Track-Type-Tractors are assembled with American parts in East Peoria, just across the river from the world headquarters.)

If the big guys can, why can't the little guy? ask AMC before the disastrous Renault partnership. Many of Chrysler's rubbish cars were made under Mercedes management, anyway. I think Chrysler can get off their ass and put out good cars again.
 
Jim Prower
Uh-huh. When G.M. is doing exactly what you say?

If the big guys can, why can't the little guy? ask AMC before the disastrous Renault partnership. Many of Chrysler's rubbish cars were made under Mercedes management, anyway.
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Who said GM is building good cars? I like GM the best out of the American automakers but as a world player I do rate them lower down the list. Until they either make the UAW build better vehicles or get management that sees you need to get rid of the UAW to build better vehicles the quality will be sub-par.
 
CTS? Malibu? For the first time, they get some of the highest marks in their category, and Zeta and other cars are looking to follow. You don't need to get rid of the UAW to make quality product. Actually, you need to treat them well.

Caterpillar is a good model, as much of their heavy equipment sold in the U.S. is built in the U.S., by UAW workers, and they still get higher marks than Komatsu and Deere. they're the largest construction equipment company in the world, and their foriegn plants produce for foreign countries, only. Much of my family is CAT workers, and CAT has some of the best programs in the business, though, granted, contract talks aren't always friendly, but overall satisfaction is high, and product shows it. Happy workers = Happy product

So, next time you see a tractor with a raised drive sprocket and the CAT logo on the side, (Which shouldn't take long) think that that was built in America by Unionized Americans under American management.
 
Treat them well? How much better can you treat them? They already get better benefits then a large majority of the American workers. Go work with the UAW and come back and talk to me. I say get rid of them all and give the jobs to people who actually care about what they are doing.

And a lot of CAT stuff isn't built here, when I worked for the City of Auburn Hills our excavator was a CAT and it said Made in Egypt or something.
 
Its not the UAW that will be building the Challenger, it will be the CAW workers in Ontario who are doing the dirty work. Canadian autoworkers, for the most part, do a pretty good job on most of the cars that they build. Granted, Lake Orion and Fairfax (here in the US, both UAW factories) have received top-notch scores in quality, but its a per-model basis it seems sometimes.

If Cerberus spends the money, and I'm sincerely hoping that they do, this Challenger could be the car to "save" Dodge at the very least, and maybe bring in some folks to have a look at the other cars. Its more or less up to whatshisname who came over from Toyota to clean up things now; Spend the money, make a better car, (hopefully) gain more buyers.

...Thus far, that process seems to be working for both GM and Ford...
 
Joey D
Treat them well? How much better can you treat them? They already get better benefits then a large majority of the American workers. Go work with the UAW and come back and talk to me. I say get rid of them all and give the jobs to people who actually care about what they are doing.

And a lot of CAT stuff isn't built here, when I worked for the City of Auburn Hills our excavator was a CAT and it said Made in Egypt or something.
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I don't know who told you about this notion that American cars are crappy because of the people who put the bits together. Crappy design is crappy design, regardless if an Italian furniture craftsman assembles it or a dimwitted monkey does. The major flaw is who came up with the silly, inconvenient ideas, and who approved or disapproved of them on the financial level. Cost cutting has been GM's motto for too many years, which translates directly into the final product, no matter where it is all assembled.
 
I've also been mulling over the possibility of not using robust work methods, which, I'll bet, is a problem with many of Chrysler's plants: too much Human decision involved. They probably still apply the glue to your P.T. Cruiser's mirror with a hand-gun, clean the glass by hand, and stick it on by hand. Also, the tooling probably gets worked to death. Combine the problem of he fact that the Avenger and Sebring are still produced in Normal on the same line as the Galant and Eclipse: That car had to be designed for that line, which I'll bet is part of it's awkward proportioning. It takes a LOT of time to re-engineer a plant for a completely new model, especially if the model is in high demand (or is in a high rate of production and sold cheap.)

What ticks me off most, is that you seem to think that UAW workers do nothing but haggle over pensions. Where do you get that idea? from the strikes? I HAVE talked to UAW workers, and they work hard to get paid. sometimes, the union tries to get more than they can, that's true, but workers don't particularly enjoy striking; they're making no money, and the return as of late seems to be not gaining ground, but keeping from losing it.

and who says foregin workers do any better a job? How do you explain Honda and Toyota's American plants, eh? Mercedes...yeah, Mercedes has final assebly plants in the U.S. It's expensive to put cars on a boat and ship them, especially in the quantity of sales cars that are built here enjoy. So, manufacturers put up with the UAW to get the local output to keep from shipping an absurd amount of automobiles. Somehow, they keep the quality up. Honda's probably the best example of this.

Okay, I'm rambling now. better stop.

Still scratching my head on that Excavator, though. That'd be expensive to ship, especially if engnes get sent from Mapleton, IL to Egypt (Especially the case if yours had an ACERT engine...the other main U.S. market engine plant is in Virginia or somewhere), just to assemble the machine and bring it back here.. I wonder if they didn't buy that one secondhand (or thirdhand) off a Middle Eastern contractor...

Look, all I'm trying to say is that it IS possible to build a car in a U.S. factory with good quality. Will the Challenger live up to a standard set by it's competitors? I don't know. Remember, when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME. I've done that a lot.
 
Jim Prower
What ticks me off most, is that you seem to think that UAW workers do nothing but haggle over pensions. Where do you get that idea? from the strikes? I HAVE talked to UAW workers, and they work hard to get paid. sometimes, the union tries to get more than they can, that's true, but workers don't particularly enjoy striking; they're making no money, and the return as of late seems to be not gaining ground, but keeping from losing it.
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I had a summer internship at General Motors back in 2003 through the US FIRST Robotics team #68 Truck Town Thunder. I worked under the command of Bob Evoy in the body on frame mock-up department on Centerpoint Campus in Pontiac, MI. Technically I was a contractor through Troy Designs though

All the UAW employees that worked there were not only the laziest people I've ever seen, they didn't work hard, they broke expensive things, and they stole GM blind on a ton of different things. Also I could even move a tool off a workbench to get a serial number because that was in violation of the contract. So yes I have worked with the UAW before which is why I has a strong dislike of them.

If you want proof that I worked there I guess I could scan in my ID badge if I can find it.
 
strange...all the plant workers I've seen work hard. Wonder if it was just that manager, there.
 
Well, heres a really good reason to complain about the Challenger now:

Autoblog
One of our readers pointed us to this page over at Dodge's website that contradicted our earlier post about the 2008 Challenger SRT-8's pricing, which was originally announced at $37,995 (including the $675 destination charge). We realize that inflation is a cruel mistress, but a bump in the sticker to $40,095 left us scratching our heads. A few emails back and forth between the people at Chrysler revealed that the SRT-8 was slapped with a $2100 gas-guzzler penalty that accounted for the discrepancy in price. Not a real surprise considering the 425 hp 6.1-liter HEMI V8. As a comparison, however, the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 gets a $1300 consumption penalty, even with 75 more horses under the hood. A quick search over at fueleconomy.gov revealed that if Challenger SRT-8 owners are penalized $2100, that means that they'll also only be getting between 18.5 and 19.5 mpg in the combined cycle. We doubt that'll be a deterrent, but it's food for thought.
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That really, really, really sucks for Chrysler. Thats almost nail-in-the-proverbial-coffin bad...

If the R/T isn't cheap (like not much over $30K cheap), you can write this one off as one of the biggest failures in automotive history. Too expensive, not efficient enough, too heavy, so-so quality, and so on. I hope things get better with the lower-spec models, but this certainly does not inspire confidence...
 
Did you really expect something good from Chrysler?
 
$2100? Pttth, my Explorer gets 12 to 15 MPG, what do I care? The Challenger is still hawt.
 
Yeah...that is a reason to complain. I guess those aggressive rear ratios got to them.

To tell the truth, that sucks, really does. We can hope the 5.7 with MDS gets much better efficiency. UNLESS the government is doing something stupid to the price to antagonize Chrysler...wait, Isn't that about the same difference for guzzler tax on the Corvette, too?

Hm, that gets one thinking, perhaps it's because the SRT8 will be the only option upon release. if THAT's the case, prices could go down upon the R/T and "SXT" models being released. at least they're not using the 2.7...
 
Neither one of the Corvettes get gas-guzzler taxes because of the skip-shift feature and that absurdly tall cruise ratio. My guess is that many of those features will make its way down to the Camaro (plus the cylinder shutoff), likely meaning that it too will dodge the tax.

But even then, note the Shelby tag. Only $1300 for the same amount of forward gears and (presumably) a similar final-drive ratio... That is, on the manual models. I'm sure that the slushbox has done its best to ruin part of the party...
 
Hm, yes. I'd venture to guess that the overdrive's not tall enough, and there's a bit more power sapping, too. Sure, they could put a numerically lower rear end in the car, (2.90?) but then it woudn't accellerate as fast.

We'll see what happens with the sticks and the smaller engines. Furthermore...could that stick trickle down to the Charger/300? (Considering the G8 will offer one.)

Wiiiishful thinking....
 
18mpg? Wow that's dreadful on a new vehicle. That's about what the Z06 gets and it's got more horsepower and a bigger engine.
 
Well the sticker says that but you have to take into account if you buy a Z06 you aren't exactly going to drive it like an old lady.
 
Tophaticent
The Z06 gets about 25 MPG on the Highway. ;)
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Disclaimer: results acheived with absurdly tall sixth, skip-shift, and a light right foot.

But why couldn't Chrylser deliver on that mileage? It's not gonna help their company-wide fuel efficency either.
 
$1,200 Gas Guzzler Tax?

Jeez, it doesn't drink that much gas does it? BMW only charges $1,200 for the M6 and M5 here.
 
Well the SRT-8 Charger is rated at 13/18 mpg, I can't imagine the Challenger is any better...in this day and age that is unacceptable for a vehicle to get that poor of mileage.
 
Most of you won't agree with this, but why is everyone complaining about the poor gas mileage in a performance car? I personally feel if you can afford the car you can afford the gas. But hey, that is just my humble opinion. And given the funds needed I'd buy a Challenger SRT-8 over quite a few other cars many like more. But everyone has their own taste when it comes to cars.
 
I don't expect it to get 40 mpg but I do expect it to get better then 13mpg especially with only 425hp. We live in 2007 when gas prices are going up and up. And just because you can afford a $40k doesn't mean you have a ton of money, $40k for a car really isn't that much now a days.
 
Joey D
Well the SRT-8 Charger is rated at 13/18 mpg, I can't imagine the Challenger is any better...in this day and age that is unacceptable for a vehicle to get that poor of mileage.
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That's awful. Does Chrysler realize that is Gallardo mileage?
Venom800tt
Most of you won't agree with this, but why is everyone complaining about the poor gas mileage in a performance car?
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Because the Challenger, even with a V8, should not be drinking as much as gas as a Lamborghini or either of the V10 BMW's. The Gallardo's V10 drinks 10/15 while the M5 and M6 drink 13/18.
 
Venom800tt
Most of you won't agree with this, but why is everyone complaining about the poor gas mileage in a performance car?
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Its a completely valid point, but when at the same time that Chevrolet and Ford can do better with their own cars, thats a problem in a market that is starting to heavily consider fuel economy.

Personally, I cant fathom paying that much for a Challenger. People cited the high price of the Camaro as one of the biggest reasons why it was canceled in 2002, and this very well could play out the same way.
 
Well we shall all see how things turn out after the car has been on the market for a while. Maybe they will lower the price after the "gotta have it" crowd calms down. But I do agree that $40k is a bit steep. Good looks and a V8 can only go so far these days.
 
I have a question for everyone: If you had $40,000 right now, would you buy a Challenger?
 

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