Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR *And Hennessey Venom 650R*

[Tornado]

The ZR1 will be about the same power figures as the standard Viper, no? Or am I thinking of the next Z06?

The current Z06 is just as fast as the 600BHP Viper. I'm guessing this ACR will outhandle the ZR-1, but I doubt it will be faster going straight. Especially with the added downforce.

I would love to know, Joey, what on that Viper makes it look cheap and goofy?

Dodge Marketing Meeting:
Guy 1: Let's paint the back end black. That carbon fiber look is edgy with the kids these days.
Guy 2: Yeah! And lets add a bookshelf of a rear spoiler.
Guy 1: Okay, but only if we can make the front splitter look as tacked on as possible.


Its not that I doubt its credibility, but oh lord could it have used some time in the think tank. The GTS-R road car from all those years ago did everything much better.

 

[Philly]

The current Z06 is just as fast as the 600BHP Viper. I'm guessing this ACR will outhandle the ZR-1, but I doubt it will be faster going straight. Especially with the added downforce.

Ok. I guess that this could very well be the case. I must have forgotten that the Z06 can outdo the Viper, and that the only Viper is 600 hp. It seriously doubt the ZR-1 will be able to match the 1.5g pulled by this beast. Power comparison?

Dodge Marketing Meeting:
Guy 1: Let's paint the back end black. That carbon fiber look is edgy with the kids these days.
Guy 2: Yeah! And lets add a bookshelf of a rear spoiler.
Guy 1: Okay, but only if we can make the front splitter look as tacked on as possible.

After reading this, the car suddenly looks hideously ugly.

 

[McLaren]

Ok. I guess that this could very well be the case. I must have forgotten that the Z06 can outdo the Viper, and that the only Viper is 600 hp. It seriously doubt the ZR-1 will be able to match the 1.5g pulled by this beast. Power comparison?
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After reading this, the car suddenly looks hideously ugly.

In respect, the Z06 does not outdo the Viper. It comes amazingly close, but the 600Bhp is enough to put the Viper ahead.

 

[Philly]

In respect, the Z06 does not outdo the Viper. It comes amazingly close, but the 600Bhp is enough to put the Viper ahead.

R&T Viper vs Z06 test

Corvette wins.

BUT, that was with a 500 hp viper. Something tells me a Corvette down 100 horsepower can't really even think about competing with a Viper. Suspiciously, the ZR-1 has the same power rating, and has been introduced at pretty much the same time as the Viper's 90 horsepower jump. And based on the above article, I would bet the ZR-1 can outdo the 600 hp snake.

It used to be a 505 hp Z06 and a 510 hp Viper along with the 400 hp standard Corvette, 100 below the top guys.

Now we have the 600 hp ZR-1 and 600 hp Viper and a 500 hp Z06 (assuming the base car is dropped....). Z06 competes with the Viper? I would doubt that. For an ACR competitor, I think we will have to turn to already existing tuner versions or wait for somebody to get their hands on the ZR-1.

 

[YSSMAN]

I know C/D gave the win to the Corvette even against the 600 BHP Viper, and I want to say Motor Trend did as well, but I can't recall for certain. The fact of the matter is that while they are still shockingly close in performance, the Corvette is still easier to live with and feels like you're getting more for your money. Then again, that is obviously open to interpretation.

Stack the ZR-1 up against the ACR and it should be interesting. The Corvette should have an extra 50 BHP not to mention the presumably lower weight, and while aerodynamics will likely be on the side of the Viper, my guess is that with proper tires equipped on the Corvette, performance should increase dramatically.

Demand better tires, you get better performance...

 

[Philly]

According to the C/D results, the Viper is also faster in almost every way than the Corvette. And I find this very interesting that that 90 horsepower boost and other improvements was only enough to bring the Viper from just behind to just ahead of the Z06. I guess that shows what Dodge was aiming for.

 

[Keef]

Dodge Marketing Meeting:
Guy 1: Let's paint the back end black. That carbon fiber look is edgy with the kids these days.
Guy 2: Yeah! And lets add a bookshelf of a rear spoiler.
Guy 1: Okay, but only if we can make the front splitter look as tacked on as possible.


Its not that I doubt its credibility, but oh lord could it have used some time in the think tank. The GTS-R road car from all those years ago did everything much better.

Have you ever watched...racing? Like say, the Speed World Challenge? Or maybe SCCA racing. Race cars don't turn pretty until you get to Le Mans, Toronado. The spoiler works. The splitter works. Have you ever seen cars tuned for time attacks or track days? They're ugly as hell, but everything works. The Viper isn't about looking pretty, it's about kicking ass.

Stack the ZR-1 up against the ACR and it should be interesting.

Again, I think the car's on a different mission. Obviously we can't avoid comparing the the two big-dog American sports cars, but I have a feeling the ZR1 is chasing the rest of the world. Whereas the ACR is chasing down whatever happens to be in front of it on the track.

 

[Tornado]

Have you ever watched...racing? Like say, the Speed World Challenge? Or maybe SCCA racing. Race cars don't turn pretty until you get to Le Mans, Toronado. The spoiler works. The splitter works. Have you ever seen cars tuned for time attacks or track days? They're ugly as hell, but everything works. The Viper isn't about looking pretty, it's about kicking ass.

It works on the S2000 CR as well, but that doesn't mean the crap added to that car did it any favors either. The fact remains that the GTS-R from a few years ago accomplished the exact same mission, as have quite a few other cars, without looking so pathetically home brewn. And no racing heritage explains some of the odder things, like the "obviously carbon fiber" rear end. Regardless of which, I'm sure another week or so spent on it and they could have made something that is both fast and inoffensive, and that was my entire point.

 

[Keef]

That car didn't do anything better than the ACR of its time. The same 460 hp, the same handling characteristics, heck they even have the same wheels. The old GTS-R didn't use downforce to its advantage. It was simply an appearance package.

The rear end of this new ACR is the same glossy black paint as the rest of it.

 

[YSSMAN]

Again, I think the car's on a different mission. Obviously we can't avoid comparing the the two big-dog American sports cars, but I have a feeling the ZR1 is chasing the rest of the world. Whereas the ACR is chasing down whatever happens to be in front of it on the track.

I find that assertion mostly agreeable, as the comparisons are inevitable. But if we are to factor in price and performance, they are technically the only two that will compete. It may be a little unfair to stack the "standard" SRT-10 Coupe with the ZR-1, but thats just a guess...

Its a damn-shame the Ford GT isn't around anymore, this would have been an awesome showdown. Ford is really good about making something incredibly awesome and then killing it right when the good gets going. See also the Cobra R, the last SVT Cobra, the SVT Focus, SVT Lightning, and certainly the Ford GT.

 

[McLaren]

R&T Viper vs Z06 test

Corvette wins.

BUT, that was with a 500 hp viper.

And we're talking about the 600Bhp Viper.

Something tells me a Corvette down 100 horsepower can't really even think about competing with a Viper. Suspiciously, the ZR-1 has the same power rating, and has been introduced at pretty much the same time as the Viper's 90 horsepower jump. And based on the above article, I would bet the ZR-1 can outdo the 600 hp snake.

It probably can with the 50 extra horses, but against the ACR, I think the outcome will be very close.

It used to be a 505 hp Z06 and a 510 hp Viper along with the 400 hp standard Corvette, 100 below the top guys.

Now we have the 600 hp ZR-1 and 600 hp Viper and a 500 hp Z06 (assuming the base car is dropped....). Z06 competes with the Viper? I would doubt that. For an ACR competitor, I think we will have to turn to already existing tuner versions or wait for somebody to get their hands on the ZR-1.

Why would we need to wait for a tuner when the ACR is an official Dodge-made product that seems like it obviously introduced to compete with the ZR-1.

 

[Philly]

And we're talking about the 600Bhp Viper.

Which also apparently lost, but was still faster than the Corvette.

It probably can with the 50 extra horses, but against the ACR, I think the outcome will be very close.

Why would we need to wait for a tuner when the ACR is an official Dodge-made product that seems like it obviously introduced to compete with the ZR-1.

Maybe I'm just being overly picky. I guess what I'm looking for is a car that uses the same engine, but has aerodynamics and suspension tuning to achieve better results. And then the ZR-1 has an engine upgrade which gives it a different advantage. So not quite the fight where both cars post the same numbers in every category that I was looking for but I guess I can live with it.

 

[Keef]

Which also apparently lost, but was still faster than the Corvette.

And had better handling and braking numbers than the Corvette, while being easier to drive on the track. But you just can't live with a Viper on a daily basis. You can with the Z06. I've helped a guy I know unload groceries from the trunk of his Z06.

 

[TheCracker]

And had better handling and braking numbers than the Corvette.

You can't express 'handling' with a set of numbers

 

[Keef]

Like, totally the reason the editors specified that the Viper is waaaay easier to drive smoothly, because GM has no idea how to make a rear suspension.

The Corvette sucks.

 

[YSSMAN]

They've addressed the "twitchy" issue, which was partially at fault because of some so-so shock choices and a really uncommunicative steering setup. The 2008 models have improved greatly over that of the 2007s, which were better than the 2006 offerings. Its been minor tweaks here and there that have helped to improve things, which is something every automaker should do.

Odd really, most track days I've been to you see far more Corvettes than anything else. They must have gotten something right...

 

[Prosthetic]

They've addressed the "twitchy" issue, which was partially at fault because of some so-so shock choices and a really uncommunicative steering setup. The 2008 models have improved greatly over that of the 2007s, which were better than the 2006 offerings. Its been minor tweaks here and there that have helped to improve things, which is something every automaker should do.

Odd really, most track days I've been to you see far more Corvettes than anything else. They must have gotten something right...

It's cause your in Michigan... Think about it.
Here in Cali all you see is classic american muscle, tuners, and hot rods.

It really depends where your at. When i go down to SoCal it's tuner city.

 

[Philly]

In Seattle all the track cars are STis or EVOs. And then come muscle cars then a good mix of everything else.

As for seeing more corvettes, it is perfectly normal to see far more Z06s anywhere you go. My guess is that the Corvette is more of an everyday sportscar that works well on the track where the viper is more of a track that also happens to be able to be driven on the street. I'm sure that as you go up in skill, you would start to see more and more Vipers and less Corvettes because those guys are more likely to look for a track performer and not look at street performance. This also adds to the spectacularness of the Viper which makes it look even less attractive to the average buyer.

 

[Jim Prower]

Here In Central Illinois you have three choices:

Cheaply built Tuners (and a few okay ones from Chicago)
Mustang and Camaro Dragsters
Diesel pickups with chips, turbos, and big exhausts. often lift kits.

anything else is just a sprinkling, nothing really prominent, though I have noticed a few more STis around than in the past.

The Viper VS Corvette thing also has a bit of a dealership thing: we have only one dealer who sells Vipers in the area (Roanoake Dodge, and he sells to customers all over the country) while almost every Chevy dealer sells and services Corvettes. I imagine having a strong dealer network has something to do with the 'Vette's popularity at the track and on the road.

and it's also just that damn good. Which is why I don't like it.

 

[Joey D]

You don't like the Corvette because it's good?

 

[Jim Prower]

Mopar fan, remember? as soon as the C5R beat the Viper GTS-R, I started resenting the whole lineup. I'm also a Cubs fan, and resent the Cardinals for the same reason.

That being said, I've kind of turned to Nissan and the GT-R. which won't outdo the ZR1, but it's that much cheaper...

 

[McLaren]

Which also apparently lost, but was still faster than the Corvette.

Depending on the magazine though.

Maybe I'm just being overly picky. I guess what I'm looking for is a car that uses the same engine, but has aerodynamics and suspension tuning to achieve better results. And then the ZR-1 has an engine upgrade which gives it a different advantage. So not quite the fight where both cars post the same numbers in every category that I was looking for but I guess I can live with it.

Understandable, & partially agree with you. 👍

You can't express 'handling' with a set of numbers

True, you can't, but I'm pretty sure after all these comparisons, it's quite obvious the Viper is the better track car.

They've addressed the "twitchy" issue, which was partially at fault because of some so-so shock choices and a really uncommunicative steering setup. The 2008 models have improved greatly over that of the 2007s, which were better than the 2006 offerings. Its been minor tweaks here and there that have helped to improve things, which is something every automaker should do.

Judging by the 2008 430Bhp Corvettes, they still ride like the magazines complained about the Z06, in which the cars have a tendency to hit all kinds of hidden bumps.

Odd really, most track days I've been to you see far more Corvettes than anything else. They must have gotten something right...

1) You're in the Corvette's golden home.
2) The Corvette is pretty much the cheapest high-performance car.

Of course, if you came down here to our Concorso in June, the playing field was a dose of heavily-modified Vipers.

Mopar fan, remember? as soon as the C5R beat the Viper GTS-R, I started resenting the whole lineup. I'm also a Cubs fan, and resent the Cardinals for the same reason.

That being said, I've kind of turned to Nissan and the GT-R. which won't outdo the ZR1, but it's that much cheaper...

True, in LeMans they did, but let's never forget that the Viper remains as the most dominant vehicle model in the FIA, which I find to be a better and more leveled playing field. That "record" though will soon be passed on to Maserati at the current rate.

 

[Venom800tt]

Well I do know one thing people forget when comparing Vette and Viper production numbers and that is Dodge intentionally keeps production low. As long as the the Viper continues to be mostly hand built only 1000 or so will be built per year compared to the 20,000+ mass produced Corvettes that GM makes every year. Even though they have such similar performance people will always have a bias to either the Vette or Viper with a few people who like both. Anyway Viper owners and Vette owners tend to be different kinds of people for the most part.

 

[YSSMAN]

Different like one reading newspapers and listening to NPR compared to another jamming to RATT (not that there is anything wrong with RATT) and finding Marmaduke hilarious?

Yeah, I guess you could say we're different...

Then again, I like the Viper too. Not nearly as much as the Vette, but in that "hey, you're American, I'm happy to have you fighting with us too!" sort of way...

 

[Layla's Keeper]

It's funny, but I don't see anyone doing the obvious and connecting the new ACR Viper to the new ALMS GT2 Viper programs.

It's really quite simple, actually. Cerberus Group doesn't want to spend any money they don't have to, and the SCCA wants several large bags of money before they'll give the Viper a break so that it'll run on par with the factory Cadillac CTS-V's.

Net result? Woodhouse and Primetime Racing Group (along with several other rumored competitors) are taking their Vipers to the ALMS as of next season, with both teams having already competed in the latter half of the 2007 season. The biggest problem? The Viper Competition Coupe is underdeveloped for racing on slicks, and overweight compared to the F430GT and 911GT3RSR.

Seems to me the latest go-fast street Viper is coming out at just the right time to hook up with the latest racing Viper effort.

 

[Jim Prower]

Well, If they didn't make it look like a 16-year-old's Civic, Perhaps we'd take it more seriously....

 

[Joey D]

Well, If they didn't make it look like a 16-year-old's Civic, Perhaps we'd take it more seriously....

Agreed, it looks over the top, but not in a good way like a Zonda is. Yes fast cars should be a little odd and a bit zany, but Dodge took this one to far. They attempted to make something look mean but just made it look like a big goofy Hot Wheels car.

 

[Danny]

Rather than waste a new thread on this, I thought it would be more constructive to bolt it onto this one.

Hennessey Performance Engineering (HPE) today announced that it is introducing the company's first high-performance upgrade system for the new 2008 Dodge Viper SRT10. Known as the Venom 650R, the engine modifications increase by 78 horsepower, giving the Viper the ability to accelerate from 0 to 150 mph 1.5 seconds quicker (15.5 sec. versus 17.0 sec.) than the already factory-fast 2008 Viper that offers a stout 600 horsepower.

The Venom 650R package consists of custom fabricated long tube stainless-steel exhaust headers with 1 7/8-inch primary tubes flowing into 5-to-1 merge collectors. From there, the spent exhaust gases flow through aftermarket catalytic converters before traveling through a full 3-inch stainless-steel exhaust system fit with high-flow stainless-steel mufflers. Other performance upgrades include: K&N high-flow air filter element, 2-piece light-weight cross-drilled brake rotors (saving 8 lbs per corner), professional installation, dyno testing, Hennessey Venom Power floor mats and exclusive Hennessey Venom 650R exterior badges. Each Venom 650R has a serial numbered plaque located in the cockpit and under the hood. Rounding out the package, the Venom 650R will carry a full 3 year / 36,000 mile Hennessey warranty that will cover the modifications performed to the vehicle.

HPE plans to build 200 units for the 2008 model year. Many of these cars will be available through an exclusive Hennessey dealer network comprised of high-performance minded Dodge dealers.

The Hennessey Venom 650R upgrade package gives 2008 Viper owners the option to fend off any Corvette Blue Devil ZR-1s that they might encounter in the coming New Year

 

[Delirious]

That is hot...that brings back memories of the original vipers I loved when I was younger...I LOVE IT!!!!!

 

[Tornado]

Rounding out the package, the Venom 650R will carry a full 3 year / 36,000 mile Hennessey warranty that will cover the modifications performed to the vehicle.

Great! That is about the time the typically atrocious Hennessey will take to get the car done, assuming they don't sell it and pocket the money.