Does a Tesla need to refuel for 6 hours during endourance races? :D

[peterjford]

I'm also thinking that. I don't get the hype about electric cars nowadays. The range of electric cars is very bad and the electricity comes from nuclear powerplants, so that is not an option. However, I think we have to step away more and more from oil since we are running out.
I think a hydrogen car works the same way as a combustion engine does. So would a hydrogen muscle car sound the same as a combustion muscle car? I think so, the only difference is the fuel.
Maybe that somebody can correct this? I don't know much about cars but I am just a car fanatic.

There is another way to use hydrogen, that is in a fuel cell. With a fuel cell the hydrogen is combined with oxygen (in the air) and you get water and electricity. The electricity is used to charge the batteries and power the motor. Fuel cells are currently very expensive, but like everything else, the price is coming down. There are some fuel cell vehicles in test fleets, but I don't know of anything you can buy yet. When I see that hydrogen fuel station near my house, its a fuel cell vehicle I will buy.

 

[MM1000]

There is another way to use hydrogen, that is in a fuel cell. With a fuel cell the hydrogen is combined with oxygen (in the air) and you get water and electricity. The electricity is used to charge the batteries and power the motor. Fuel cells are currently very expensive, but like everything else, the price is coming down. There are some fuel cell vehicles in test fleets, but I don't know of anything you can buy yet. When I see that hydrogen fuel station near my house, its a fuel cell vehicle I will buy.

Of course, we will need refuel stations outside our own homes. I like long roadtrips, and cannot have a car that can't drive thousands of miles from my home sometimes.

But one really awesome aspect of a fuel cell is that you can have a charger in your home, much like a Leaf's charger, only ready to refuel your car in seconds instead of hours. You can power this charger with natural gas, which isn't expensive in some parts of the world, and is plentiful and very clean.

Like you, I patiently await the technology. I think a combination of CNG cars and hydrogen cars will be the near future, with hydrogen becoming the future after a few generations of advancements.

 

[sandboxgod]

If I had the money, I would buy a Tesla Roadster! I can buy 2 Tesla, for the prize of 1 Camaro here... (T-700 000 nok, C-1 500 000 nok)

It would be fun with a online race with not just Tesla, but only electric road cars. Are there others than Tesla and i-miev? When I get online again, I´ll set up a room, if not any others do it before me

Hm, that actually sounds fun

 

[MM1000]

Yeah, I'd want to be part of an all electric race. Though you might as well call it an all Tesla race as far as I know.

 

[Neocodex]

The car itself isn't outrageous...paying $35k for some dinky ****box is...and who is going to keep that car for close to 9 years? You also left out maintenance costs. What if you're out of warranty and the batteries need to be replaced? I'm sure that will be cheap.

Up until a few years ago, the batteries were costing upwards of $10,000 to replace.
Its subsidized now, so the cost is down to $3,000

Toyota now has a x number of years of coverage on the batteries, but I think its only up to 150k

 

[Moot]

Up until a few years ago, the batteries were costing upwards of $10,000 to replace.
Its subsidized now, so the cost is down to $3,000

Toyota now has a x number of years of coverage on the batteries, but I think its only up to 150k

What car are you talking about this was about the Leaf wasn't it?
It will cost you $25,000 to get a new battery pack I expect.
They are guaranteed to 100k miles.

 

[mrluckypants]

What??? You don't want to pay $35k USD for this? You MUST be an idiot!

um, no

 

[10,500RPM]

The electric cars will NOT save the world! The hybrids use petrol and from where the energy comes from?! The hydrogen cars will I think.

Hydrogen will not "save the world", you need a lot of power for the electrolysis to split it from the oxygen in water.

Realistically everyone needs their own renewable power source to make their own fuel (eg a wood gasifier to generate electicity to recharge a car/ produce hydrogen, very little oil is required to do this (it's used as a lubricant))

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I guess this is OT, but that claim is in serious dispute. To say the least.

And 'can' != will. I saw a neighbor throwing out those fluorescent bulbs, and I've thrown away AAs occasionally, only to remember that's a no-no when it's too late.

There's a huge difference between throwing AA batteries away and recycling the 6,800 cells in a Tesla, I would think. The Tesla owner can't just remove and throw away this huge battery pack. Doing so would be extremely dangerous, plus, it might actually cost more since the Tesla owner would now have to buy a new battery from the dealer with nothing to trade-in.

Same goes for Prius batteries. In my shop, I wouldn't even dare to work on the Prius hybrid/synergy electrical system. A special shop with padded floors is needed just so the mechanic doesn't possibly get fried!

Anyway, that's not really the topic. Tesla is a damn fun car, though it's no Elise. It runs out of power and cannot be refueled for this kind of event.

Yea, I love my Tesla. I love sneaking up on people online as I race it (it's deadly silent!)

 

[Neocodex]

There's a huge difference between throwing AA batteries away and recycling the 6,800 cells in a Tesla, I would think. The Tesla owner can't just remove and throw away this huge battery pack. Doing so would be extremely dangerous, plus, it might actually cost more since the Tesla owner would now have to buy a new battery from the dealer with nothing to trade-in.

Same goes for Prius batteries. In my shop, I wouldn't even dare to work on the Prius hybrid/synergy electrical system. A special shop with padded floors is needed just so the mechanic doesn't possibly get fried!



Yea, I love my Tesla. I love sneaking up on people online as I race it (it's deadly silent!)

My boss is a firefighter and he says anytime they come to an accident, first thing they check is if the vehicle is a hybrid.

 

[MM1000]

Hydrogen will not "save the world", you need a lot of power for the electrolysis to split it from the oxygen in water.

Realistically everyone needs their own renewable power source to make their own fuel (eg a wood gasifier to generate electicity to recharge a car/ produce hydrogen, very little oil is required to do this (it's used as a lubricant))

Well, save the world is hyperbole, but Hydrogen's only problem is that it takes a lot of electricity. This is an imminently solvable problem in a way other technologies aren't. Prius or Leaf style batteries are heavy and take too long to charge to be the kind of transport people need. Gasoline has some pollution aspects and also relies on oil, which has geopolitical problems and the rest that we're all familiar with. For hydrogen, it produces a good driving experience, is easy to refuel, produces no pollution*, and it works if you can find an electricity source. And that source can be different wherever you are.

It's not really that difficult to produce electricity, and we get better at it all the time. It's a downside that can be solved in a way gasoline and batteries can't.

*of course, generating the electricity can produce pollution, but this can be tightly controlled in a way cars aren't. That one smog producing car you see produces a ton of pollution, but even a modern coal plant is drastically cleaner than the equivalent number of Priuses because of the major cleaning steps we take these days.

 

[Moot]

Pollution created on the road is far worse than from a power station for our health. If all emissions were removed from public roads and transferred to power stations, quality of life would be vastly improved, even if it meant an overall increase in pollution.

 

[10,500RPM]

It's not really that difficult to produce electricity, and we get better at it all the time. It's a downside that can be solved in a way gasoline and batteries can't.

Really? Last I heard it's becoming more and more difficult. Oil is running out, nuclear isn't exactly popular (except in Saudi Arabia) and windfarms are very inefficent. Geothermal is a no go here (only a real alternative in zones with high volcanic/ seismic activity) and tidal energy has very little inverstment/ progress.

 

[iamsupernasty]

Pollution created on the road is far worse than from a power station for our health. If all emissions were removed from public roads and transferred to power stations, quality of life would be vastly improved, even if it meant an overall increase in pollution.

And this comment is based on what factual evidence?

 

[10,500RPM]

And this comment is based on what factual evidence?

Quite a lot actually. The diesel fumes vs smoking tobacco investigstion was interesting to say the least.

 

[iamsupernasty]

Quite a lot actually. The diesel fumes vs smoking tobacco investigstion was interesting to say the least.

I'm not talking about Tobacco....

I want to see a stat that says Automobiles are responsible for more pollutants than Industrial plants. I find that hard to believe. Coal burning power plants are one of the most hazardous air polluters on the planet.

 

[10,500RPM]

I'm not talking about Tobacco....

I want to see a stat that says Automobiles are responsible for more pollutants than Industrial plants. I find that hard to believe. Coal burning power plants are one of the most hazardous air polluters on the planet.

That's a simple matter of efficency. A few big pieces of machinery are more efficent than lots of little ones and new power stations are build to meet strict environmental regulations. Older ones have had carbon scrubbers retrofitted too.

 

[iamsupernasty]

That's a simple matter of efficency. A few big pieces of machinery are more efficent than lots of little ones and new power stations are build to meet strict environmental regulations. Older ones have had carbon scrubbers retrofitted too.

Wrong.

According to the United States Government (http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/fq/emissions.htmll)

What are the largest sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S.?
In the U.S., our energy-related activities account for over three-quarters of our human-generated greenhouse gas emissions, mostly in the form of carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels. More than half the energy-related emissions come from large sources such as power plants and factories, while about a third comes from transportation. Industrial processes (such as the production of cement, steel, and aluminum), agriculture, other land use, and waste management are also important sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States. Forestry is also an important sector — in the U.S., after accounting for tree growth and harvesting, there is a net accumulation of carbon from the atmosphere and into biomass. This net accumulation partially offsets some of the emissions from other sources. For a detailed look at U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, visit the U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory on EPA’s Climate Change site.

What are greenhouse gas emissions from the power sector?
The process of generating electricity is the single largest source of emissions in the United States, representing 34 percent of emissions from all sources across the country in 2007. Electricity generation also accounted for the largest share of carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel combustion, approximately 42 percent in 2007. Electricity was consumed primarily by users in the residential, commercial, and industrial sectors for lighting, heating, electric motors, appliances, electronics, and air conditioning.

What are greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector?
In the U.S., the transportation sector accounts for approximately 33 percent of total carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel combustion, the largest share of any end-use economic sector in 2007. Emissions from this sector increased by 29 percent from 1990 to 2007, representing an average annual increase of 1.7 percent. Nearly 60 percent of the emissions resulted from gasoline consumption for personal vehicle use. The remaining emissions came from other transportation activities, including the combustion of diesel fuel in heavy-duty vehicles and jet fuel in aircrafts. Current details on emissions from the transportation and other sectors are available in the U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory.

Is that a good enough source for you?

 

[iamsupernasty]

Also, China is now the worlds largest polluter. In China there are only about 180 million cars. In the United States, we have 250 million cars. Yet, somehow, China has more emissions. Wanna know why? It's because factories are bigger polluters than cars.

 

[sumbrownkid]

game design oversight by PD...

Or is it the cold hard truth being told in pixels?

 

[Moot]

Wrong.

According to the United States Government (http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/fq/emissions.htmll)

What are the largest sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S.?
In the U.S., our energy-related activities account for over three-quarters of our human-generated greenhouse gas emissions, mostly in the form of carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels. More than half the energy-related emissions come from large sources such as power plants and factories, while about a third comes from transportation. Industrial processes (such as the production of cement, steel, and aluminum), agriculture, other land use, and waste management are also important sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States. Forestry is also an important sector — in the U.S., after accounting for tree growth and harvesting, there is a net accumulation of carbon from the atmosphere and into biomass. This net accumulation partially offsets some of the emissions from other sources. For a detailed look at U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, visit the U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory on EPA’s Climate Change site.

What are greenhouse gas emissions from the power sector?
The process of generating electricity is the single largest source of emissions in the United States, representing 34 percent of emissions from all sources across the country in 2007. Electricity generation also accounted for the largest share of carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel combustion, approximately 42 percent in 2007. Electricity was consumed primarily by users in the residential, commercial, and industrial sectors for lighting, heating, electric motors, appliances, electronics, and air conditioning.

What are greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector?
In the U.S., the transportation sector accounts for approximately 33 percent of total carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel combustion, the largest share of any end-use economic sector in 2007. Emissions from this sector increased by 29 percent from 1990 to 2007, representing an average annual increase of 1.7 percent. Nearly 60 percent of the emissions resulted from gasoline consumption for personal vehicle use. The remaining emissions came from other transportation activities, including the combustion of diesel fuel in heavy-duty vehicles and jet fuel in aircrafts. Current details on emissions from the transportation and other sectors are available in the U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory.

Is that a good enough source for you?

Green house gasses are not really classed as a pollutant in the public health aspect and quality of life aspect.
Check out the EU regulations for car emissions, lot's of limits for various emissions, CO2 doesn't even get a mention.
Also I never said vehicles are more polluting than industry or power plants, I'm just saying removing the pollutants which are collecting just metres away from us from the roads and emitting them from a power station instead results in less concentrated pollution effecting us, it's exponentially a smaller risk. Perhaps metaphorically like radiation particles.

 

[10,500RPM]

Wrong.

Are you really that stupid? That explains nothing at all. Industry uses a lot of energy to produce goods so it can't be compared to the carbon footprint for recharging cars. Think before replying ffs.

See that bit in bold? Look at the carbon footprint for an ic engine travelling over a set distance and then carbon footprint for the electricity required to recharge an electric car.

 

[10,500RPM]

I did it for you before you come back and tell me how many miles it is to the moon or some other ridiculously irrelevant piece of in formation

An EV recharged from the existing US grid electricity emits about 115 grams of CO2 per kilometer driven (6.5 oz(CO2)/mi), whereas a conventional US-market gasoline powered car emits 250 g(CO2)/km (14 oz(CO2)/mi) (most from its tailpipe, some from the production and distribution of gasoline)

The answer is quite clear there.

 

[peterjford]

Are you really that stupid? That explains nothing at all. Industry uses a lot of energy to produce goods so it can't be compared to the carbon footprint for recharging cars. Think before replying ffs.

See that bit in bold? Look at the carbon footprint for an ic engine travelling over a set distance and then carbon footprint for the electricity required to recharge an electric car.

Then add the carbon footprint for manufacturing/recycling/disposal of the batteries.

Guess what, its all the same. There is no free lunch, there are no unicorns, you are not as special as your mom says you are.

Just drive what you like and plant a tree (or 3 in my case, I have a big yard).


And use the edit button too.

 

[10,500RPM]

Then add the carbon footprint for manufacturing/recycling/disposal of the batteries.

Guess what, its all the same. There is no free lunch, there are no unicorns, you are not as special as your mom says you are.

Just drive what you like and plant a tree (or 3 in my case, I have a big yard).

And where was i talking about hugging trees? Do you really think I care about the environment? I thought this was about clean air in cities, not worldwide CO2 emissions

 

[10,500RPM]

And use the edit button too.

Get a life. Don't start a sentance with and.

 

[Moot]

Then add the carbon footprint for manufacturing/recycling/disposal of the batteries.

Guess what, its all the same. There is no free lunch, there are no unicorns, you are not as special as your mom says you are.

Just drive what you like and plant a tree (or 3 in my case, I have a big yard).

You planting 3 trees, or even every single person on the planet planting 100 trees, does not cure thousands of people an long painful death from cancer due to vehicle emissions.
Exhausts on public roads kills people.
Better to just say drive what you like and have a smoke in your yard while having a BBQ, until the government commands you otherwise. As it's more honest perhaps.
But I think we are talking about different kinds of pollution here.
Also I'm pretty sure I read trees are carbon neutral or even a contributor or something, they don't clean the air or make a net difference. The Earth's CO2 could be managed very effectively by killing all the planets trees and storing them or turn them into paper. That way a mass of CO2 has been absorbed by the trees and then prevented from re-entering the atmosphere. Obviously I shouldn't have to say a world without trees would not be worth contemplating.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Exhaust emissions can directly/indirectly kill people, but not at an astronomically high number like wars, famine, and through crime.

When people bring up that argument, it really is not that great of an argument, because let's admit, people die everyday unfortunately for a variety reasons.

 

[Moot]

Exhaust emissions can directly/indirectly kill people, but not at an astronomically high number like wars, famine, and through crime.

When people bring up that argument, it really is not that great of an argument, because let's admit, people die everyday unfortunately for a variety reasons.

There are laws and government that protect people from famine, crime, wars and exhaust pollution.
Counter to what you say I say millions of deaths, more than famine and crime and war put together per year result from exhaust emissions.
Neither of us have any numbers to hand here.

 

[peterjford]

Exhaust emissions can directly/indirectly kill people, but not at an astronomically high number like wars, famine, and through crime.

When people bring up that argument, it really is not that great of an argument, because let's admit, people die everyday unfortunately for a variety reasons.

Its just a wild theory of mine, but I think that more people die from the stress of arguments about things like emissions related deaths than die from emissions.

Back on topic:

I hope to be online tonight at around 2000 PDT. If anyone is on at that time, send me a message on PSN and we can have a tesla race. I hope 10,500RPM will be on, but that will be very early in the morning for him.