Does doing exactly the speed limit in town make me a jerk?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim Prower
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Yeah, if someone is tailgeting me, I'm not going to slam on my brakes. I'm not THAT stupid. Just a light tap will get them off. And I'll make that tap with my left foot, so my right stays on the accelerator.

Doesn't matter. Any action you take deliberately to make another driver take evasive action is dangerous and stupid.

They may have behaved stupidly and placed themselves in a situation where they allow other drivers to dictate their actions, but that doesn't mean you should lower yourself to their level and behave just as stupidly - and any accident that arises as a result of your "brake check" will be at least partially your fault, potentially up to 50% your fault.

Maintain the speed you feel comfortable doing. If having them crawling all over the back of you makes you uncomfortable, pull off/over and let them past. Let them have their stupid accident elsewhere and don't cause one.
 
Yeah, if someone is tailgeting me, I'm not going to slam on my brakes. I'm not THAT stupid. Just a light tap will get them off. And I'll make that tap with my left foot, so my right stays on the accelerator.

Have to admit, I do this too, albeit infrequently. Usually to Vectra drivers. Everyone else I give the benefit of the doubt.

On topic, no, you're not being a jerk Jim. If you're going the limit (and remember it's a limit, not a target) then you're setting a good example. If people behind are getting cheesed off then it's their problem.

On the open road, there'd still be nothing wrong with it, though I personally tend to travel a little above if the conditions allow.

On the motorway, I actually travel 5mph below the limit nowadays, unless I'm in one of the passing lanes. 65 is enough to pass trucks (over here, where they're limited) and make decent progress whilst saving a ton of fuel at the same time. My car isn't that suited to the motorway so I get no extra enjoyment from doing the 80+ that everyone else does.

If I have to pass something, I'll zip up to 70-75 so I'm less likely to hold anyone behind up, and then drop back down to 65 once I've pulled in again. Everybody wins.
 
I go through the exact same thing all the time. I go the speed limit, sometimes a little slower, and people just fly by me. Oh well I try not to get too mad about it. Some people are just bitter all the time and there really isnt much you can do about it besides pull over and let them pass. Since I started daily driving my 2005 Subaru Impreza, I have run into a lot more problems. Especially people trying to race me.
 
Jerks are those that have modified (lowered) their suspension so that they are unable to maintain a sensible speed through towns because of speed humps... usually "hot" hatches, not able to stick to the speed limits anywhere!!

30mph limit...
45mph>speed hump>4mph>straight>45mph>speedhump>4mph>straight>45mph>speedhump...

Just get a proper car!!!!! And because they've usually got some lame exhaust on it, you get the tin can symphony going up and down through the rev range each time too.

Oh so true, I find it amusing if anything. They're racing around like maniacs alot of the time but a simple bump in the road becomes a huge obstacle and they have to crawl over it. I also love when the same people drive off every light like it's a drag strip and then just get to the next red quicker but ultimately everyone ends up there before it's green so what do they gain? Nothing, just working their cars harder and wasting petrol.

I personally don't mind people who do the speed limit or anyone slightly either side of it, it's those who go to the extremes of either which irritate me. I to treat the limits as a guide to how fast I should be going minimum or maximum in average conditions with good flow (roughly 10% each way), obviously traffic and such can effect this. Over-speeding in itself doesn't annoy me, more the associated behaviour of tailgating, if I were going over the limit and I came up behind someone slower I know there's nothing to gain by getting right up behind them and I'll wait in line until I can safely pass.

The flipside annoys me more when a driver or sometimes vehicle simply doesn't or can't stay near the limit when there's large traffic flows and it causes huge ques to form and traffic is backed up because of it. Tractors are a good example of this going on major road during peak times, it drives me crazy on the A5 near where I live (used to be on my daily commute) at rush hour when a tractor decides to join at 20mph (60mph limit) on an often single lane road.
 
I believe indeed it is up to the driver to decide he can not risk his drivers license and keeps in the limit the driver sees fit.
I'd be lost without mine.

Lately I have had the honour to get light flashes and horn sounds from a truck driver who thought that the limit in some works was not fast enough. I would have expected professional drivers to have more sense.

Afterwards the truck overtook me, there still were 3 lanes in the works, which was a lot more sensible.

On break checking, it is showing to the person behind you that you could be breaking for things that person can not see. The person behind you is supposed to be able to avoid any object that could or could not be foreseen that comes in its way.
Yes I agree you should not provoke accidents, but I do not see any mistake in warning people upfront you might have to break at any moment. (PS: I used to use fog lights for this, I do not do this anymore, I now start laughing at the other persons behavior; to tears sometimes).
 
It doesn't matter if they are supposed to be able to brake for any upcoming changes in speed or traffic. If you deliberately take an action to cause another driver to have to (or think they have to) make an evasive action, you're being as much of a jerk as they are and just as dangerous.

I speak from experience, too. I've never wrecked from it, thankfully, but I've done tons of stupid things before my uh, natural mental state was under control. I don't pretend to be some holier-than-thou speed-limit freak. I thrive off of the adrenaline from spirited driving. I've passed on the shoulder, darted through 4 lanes of traffic to get ahead, gotten up on people's bumpers. It's all stupid. It's not worth the risk. The fact that I'm alive is a testament to stupid luck.

I enjoy driving much more now that I am calm 95% of the time, rather than worked up in some super testosterone-fueled machismo rage (which it was, for me). I stay closer to the speed limit instead of doing 394898234mph, or even under if the road calls for it (example: short back road that is almost wide enough for two cars with a posted limit of 30mph, two way traffic, residential. I'll do 20 there because it's safer.) I stay to the right, which has always been the law in the states I've lived in. Most importantly, if someone wants to pass me, it doesn't bruise my ego anymore. I move over and let them pass. If nothing else, they'll field the cops for me.

That really was the biggest thing for me. "I have to be fastest, craziest, etc." It's dumb and can get you killed. Luckily I grew up and cut it out.

So, I agree with Famine wholeheartedly.
 
These guys are HUGE assholes. the left lanes are meant for passing. Sure, they're following the speed limit but they are not being courteous and thus huge jerks. In some states the guys on the left would get pulled over and ticketed.
Um, it was an experiment in civil obedience to show that the law is broken. It was not some form of prank just to be jerks.

Their point is well made and one that I feel applies locally for me. The interstate speed limit is 70mph, but as soon as you enter Louisville city limits it becomes 55mph. Traffic rarely runs below 65mph and as you drive through town the only difference between the interstate on one side of the city limits and the other is the amount of traffic. It is still limited access, still two or more lanes wide in each direction, and there is no pedestrian traffic allowed in the area.

And of course, cops love to sit and watch for speeders within a quarter mile of the reduced speed limit sign.

there are laws in some states prohibiting cruising in the left lane if traffic conditions are favorable
We have those here, and it is even posted "Keep right except to pass." I don;t know the law in Atlanta, where that video was made, but if they were violating it then it was a form of civil disobedience to make a point.

The question the video asks you is: If they are assholes for doing 55mph because the traffic flow is closer to 75mph, then why is the speed limit 55mph?

The thing that get's me the most is when people speed where you should never speed! Neighborhoods and school zones.
And construction zones. We had a construction worker killed a year or two ago when a car that was speeding lost control and broke through the construction barriers. There is also construction traffic entering and exiting the normal traffic and if you are speeding along you may not be able to slow down in time to avoid that dump truck that just pulled out, what should have been a safe distance, in front of you doing 55mph.

Often I see situations driving to work through construction zones (they are on a long-term project widening I-64 to three lanes each way between Louisville and Lexington) where construction zone traffic is flowing at around 65mph and all of a sudden everyone is slamming on their brakes because they didn't realize that large truck driving along was part of the construction crew and needs to exit the interstate on to gravel or dirt, thus slowing down to a near stop first.




On the original topic. I was under the understanding that Jim Prower was on a single lane in a neighborhood (no passing lanes). Doing the speed limit, to the chagrin of other drivers, does not make him a jerk when it is 1) an area kids/families maybe running around in, and 2) area cops are likely to heavily enforce. He is protecting himself and others.

If it is a two-or-more-lane section with a passing zone, stay in the cruising/right-hand (US) lane unless you need to pass someone. People who ride in the passing lane like some form of vigilante speed limit enforcer are making it more dangerous for everyone involved. Anyone getting angry for someone doing the speed limit in the far right lane would be better served questioning the speed limit than those wishing to avoid possible traffic citations.
 
Let me add that by brake checking, I'm not trying to cause an accident behind me. It's simply a warning to the driver who is tailgating me to back off a bit. I don't even lose speed when I brake check.

Oddly enough though, the rare instinces that I am tailgated, it's on a four lane road. Why can't you just pass me?
 
Let me add that by brake checking, I'm not trying to cause an accident behind me. It's simply a warning to the driver who is tailgating me to back off a bit. I don't even lose speed when I brake check.
And how does he/she know you aren't? They see your brake lights come on and can either wait to see if you are actually braking, thus delaying their reaction time, or they can just assume you are and act evasively, placing themselves and anyone around them in danger.

If you just want to say, "Back off," buy this:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/car/d138/

d138_drivemocion_ex_series_led_car_sign_inuse.jpg


d138_drivemocion_ex_series_led_car_sign_chart.jpg
 
Let me add that by brake checking, I'm not trying to cause an accident behind me.

Whether you're trying to or not, that's going to be the result.

Keep the focus on your own driving and let them get on with behaving like a cock. If you're concerned about them doing it right behind you, pull off/over and let them get on their way to behave like a cock somewhere else. I quite enjoy being tailgated, so I allow it to continue.
 
Whether you're trying to or not, that's going to be the result.

Keep the focus on your own driving and let them get on with behaving like a cock. If you're concerned about them doing it right behind you, pull off/over and let them get on their way to behave like a cock somewhere else. I quite enjoy being tailgated, so I allow it to continue.

To be fair, the idiots that sit behind on the motorway (and elsewhere) are generally covering the brake anyway because they're sitting far too close. They're the ones you can see when they tailgate others with the brakelights flashing every couple of seconds as they maintain their "distance" by tapping the brakes rather than just BACKING THE HELL OFF.

Certainly not advocating the "brake check" method but I'm not going to lie and say I haven't done it before.

I do like the device that FK posted. Ideally it'd be programmable so I could really let people know what I think of them.

The only tailgaters that really cheese me off though are those who sit right up your chuff when there's still an empty lane on the outside of you that they could pass you in. I do think some drivers are either so scared or stupid that they refuse to pass using the outer lane and will only go past when you move back in again.
 
Yes. I've seen those - usually in the distance ahead. Surprisingly, given my relative... usage of pace on our arterial roads, there's always someone in a German saloon who wants to go faster.
 
Rather than "brake checking" a tailgater spray your screen wash which will get their wind screen too, keep doing it until they get the hint. Also be proactive and leave a larger than normal (but not stupidly large) gap between you and the car in front which subconsciously alters the behaviour of the driver behind you to do the same thing. Of course pulling over will work most of the time. Someone was tailgating me so I pulled into the left hand lane but they pulled in too and continued to tailgate me even when I slowed down to about 20mph below the limit, they were completely oblivious to what they were doing and just followed the car in front no matter what (although they didn't follow me home!)
 
I would judge the speed limit by what is punishable. Are you going to get pulled over for going 50mph in a 45mpn zone? Nope, not ever and I've never heard of it happening for that reason alone. So I would have to be the odd guy and say yes, you are being a jerk. However, only if its a single lane road and not in a school zone :)

Jerome
 
Though be careful when assuming no one will pull you over for doing 5 over.

Most cops won't pull you over for doing 50 in a 45, heck, most cops probably speed faster than that anyways. But there is always that one cop who is having a really bad day, and wants to make someone else have a bad day. Those are the cops who will pull you over for doing 46 in a 45. Believe me, they exist. I had a friend who got pulled over for doing 46 in a 45. And they are perfectly in the right to do so.
 
Within half a mile of my house there's a very pointless* stretch of 20mph. And I get tailed doing 30km/h! I refuse to go any faster than that because then I'd be in serious trouble if I got caught.



*There's 15ft verges either side. One side has a field of cows, the other the back gardens. There is very little pedestrian traffic.
 
Though be careful when assuming no one will pull you over for doing 5 over.

Most cops won't pull you over for doing 50 in a 45, heck, most cops probably speed faster than that anyways. But there is always that one cop who is having a really bad day, and wants to make someone else have a bad day. Those are the cops who will pull you over for doing 46 in a 45. Believe me, they exist. I had a friend who got pulled over for doing 46 in a 45. And they are perfectly in the right to do so.

Cops are obviously quite within their rights to pull someone over for doing '5 over' - whether they would or not is another matter. Presuming that they never would is more than a little foolhardy. Even if they let you off without a ticket, they've still wasted a good deal of your time going through the whole pulling over process. Certainly more time on your journey then the difference in driving at exactly the limit would have.

I personally try to drive at 'about' the speed limit in built-up areas. On more open roads and motorways i travel at speed that i feel safe at and i'm just very observant whilst doing so. Which is why, not wanting to tempt fate, i've never been stopped for speeding or involved in an accident in 21 years of driving. So many people drive at exactly the speed limit thinking it makes them immune from any possible trouble, yet they just don't concentrate on what they are doing or what's happening around them.
 
Rather than "brake checking" a tailgater spray your screen wash which will get their wind screen too, keep doing it until they get the hint. Also be proactive and leave a larger than normal (but not stupidly large) gap between you and the car in front which subconsciously alters the behaviour of the driver behind you to do the same thing. Of course pulling over will work most of the time. Someone was tailgating me so I pulled into the left hand lane but they pulled in too and continued to tailgate me even when I slowed down to about 20mph below the limit, they were completely oblivious to what they were doing and just followed the car in front no matter what (although they didn't follow me home!)

It really doesn't. Someone stupid enough to sit a foot from your bumper at 80mph wants to be in that large gap you're leaving as soon as you even hint at moving out of the way.

It's another part of the reason I've slowed down on motorways. Got very bored of the rat race, doing 80-85mph and still managing to get in the way of utter wazzocks doing 90 and 100.

I time my journey between home and uni every time I do it. There's very little difference between doing it at 65 and doing it at 80, mostly because at any speed your journey time is dictated by the amount of traffic, and unless I had a completely clear (and roadwork-free) route, I suspect I'd rarely better the 90 miles in 90 minutes I do at the moment.
 
yet they just don't concentrate on what they are doing or what's happening around them.

Key to everything to do with driving ever. Even before I could drive, my number 1 complaint when I went karting was this.
I sometimes wonder how these people even got a license or got beyond walking on public roads - life with traffic be it on foot, on a bike, in a car, on a race circuit, in a plane, a helicopter, a boat....awareness is key.
 
Regarding the whole brake-check thing..

Hypothetical situation:
You are driving along at the speed limit,
The car behind you is less than 1m from your rear bumper,
A child runs out infront of you from behind a parked car,
You brake suddenley, but in a controlled fashion, pull up in a straight line less than 2m away from the child,
The car behind was caught by suprise, looses control under braking, clips kerb, rolls into a bus stop, killing 3 people, also nudges your car that last 2m so you hit and severly injure the child.

Who is responsible for the deaths?

A) You
B) The Child
C) The Tail-gater


I don't mean to be insensitive, but if the child were removed and the example used a brake-check, would the answer be the same?
 
I've never had to deal with this kind of situation before, but I think in both cases the tailgater is at fault.
 
Who is responsible for the deaths?

A) You
B) The Child
C) The Tail-gater


I don't mean to be insensitive, but if the child were removed and the example used a brake-check, would the answer be the same?
C) The tailgater.

He did not leave appropriate space between his vehicle and mine.

For a brake check, assuming you intentionally, suddenly applied brakes and slowed down, then A and C. Your intent to scare him or make him react played as much of a role as his inappropriate driving.
 
If you are smart enough to drive the speed limit and not get a ticket, good work.
But, if you want to speed, good luck dealing with the force.
 
For a brake check, assuming you intentionally, suddenly applied brakes and slowed down, then A and C. Your intent to scare him or make him react played as much of a role as his inappropriate driving.
In a rear-end collision, the driver behind is almost always at fault. You can be taken to court for "intentionally" causing a collision, but that is very difficult to prove. It may not be right, but that's how our justice system works.

I have brake-checked two people in my lifetime, and immediately hammered the throttle to make sure they didn't hit me. Both times, they got the point. Not smart, but it worked. A similar, almost-as-effective method is to simply click and hold the brake lights on with the left foot without actually slowing down. The person behind usually reacts to this. If not, then the next step is fun...see how slow you can go before they finally wake up. I got one person down to 45 mph on a rural freeway before he realized what I was doing and finally went around.
 
anyways when i get annoyed by tailgaters i just either ignore it, or when they get on my nerves just slow down and smile and wave when they can finally pass
 
Tractors are a good example of this going on major road during peak times, it drives me crazy on the A5 near where I live (used to be on my daily commute) at rush hour when a tractor decides to join at 20mph (60mph limit) on an often single lane road.

As one of those tractor drivers, I can assure you that travelling at a maximum of 25mph on a 60mph road can be just as frustrating for the tractor driver as it is for everyone else. I know the 25 maximum for agricultural vehicles is there for a reason - 3.5 tonnes of tractor and up to 5 tonnes of trailer plus cargo takes some stopping (and whilst I'm here, please bear that in mind if you decide to pull out in front of one).

The farm I work on has only one entrance/exit, and that's onto a busy single lane national speed limit road (although the road as a main route came after the farm was established). The other problem with tractors is they usually have no suspension whatsoever, so if you hit a bump - and you will, often - the whole thing bounces until you back off the throttle. I pull in to laybys as often as possible to let traffic through - the law states as a tractor driver I have to anyway - but depending on the load and trailer length there aren't many laybys large enough.

Lastly, if I'm in a tractor and I'm turning right, with indicator on, into the farm drive off the main road and you try to overtake (this happens about once a month) and we make contact YOU WILL LOSE. Especially if you're doing 60+ and I'm pulling away from a standstill. I've never had an incident yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

All of the above is even worse in one of our tractors, a 1988 David Brown Case with a top speed of 14mph. That's a real PITA. The first time I drove it I thought I'd missed an overdrive gearlever somewhere.

Sort of rant over. To summerise, we're not certainly sitting in the cab grinning at the queue behind.

I still can't comprehend who thought 55 was an appropriate speed on a 4 lane highway, btw.
 
In a rear-end collision, the driver behind is almost always at fault. You can be taken to court for "intentionally" causing a collision, but that is very difficult to prove.

Indeed, there's no way of telling if you brake checked the driver behind or if a dog/cat/rabbit/hedgehog etc. ran in front of you and you hit the brakes to avoid it.

Some people tend to justify tailgating by saying that it's safe to do because they can see through the car in front and thus can react to dangers looming up ahead. Well, good luck trying to do that with my vehicle... the rear compartment windows blacked out with what I assume to be 5% film.
 
It really doesn't. Someone stupid enough to sit a foot from your bumper at 80mph wants to be in that large gap you're leaving as soon as you even hint at moving out of the way.

It's another part of the reason I've slowed down on motorways. Got very bored of the rat race, doing 80-85mph and still managing to get in the way of utter wazzocks doing 90 and 100.

I time my journey between home and uni every time I do it. There's very little difference between doing it at 65 and doing it at 80, mostly because at any speed your journey time is dictated by the amount of traffic, and unless I had a completely clear (and roadwork-free) route, I suspect I'd rarely better the 90 miles in 90 minutes I do at the moment.

You're right, I should have added a caveat that leaving a 2 - 3 second gap from the car in front to instil the same behaviour from the car behind will not work with people who are actively trying to bully you out of the way. I've done a couple of RAC driver training courses through work which have taught this method and it can be quite successful to normal drivers who are just absent mindedly driving too close to your bumper.

Totally agree about motorway speeds, I've made many 2 hour journeys to Birmingham and it makes didly squat difference to the time whether you chill out in the left hand and middle lanes and go with the flow or stay in the right had lane and battle with the other loons and Audi drivers.

In answer to the OP, no it doesn't make you a jerk but I'm not surprised it annoys some drivers. I generally go with the 10% + 2 rule for urban driving as far as my speed is concerned and put more concentration into paying attention to what's going on around me than the exact speed limit.
 
In a rear-end collision, the driver behind is almost always at fault. You can be taken to court for "intentionally" causing a collision, but that is very difficult to prove. It may not be right, but that's how our justice system works.
I don't care what the law says, if you do that you are just as much to blame.
 
@ OP: Well, Jim, you don't own a Prius, so I'm gonna say it is alright.[/youdbesurprisedhowseriousIambeing]

It really doesn't. Someone stupid enough to sit a foot from your bumper at 80mph wants to be in that large gap you're leaving as soon as you even hint at moving out of the way.
Indeed. I once did an "experiment" in my Mom's Shadow when there was a guy tailgating me along 81 North. I spent about 3 minutes accelerating from 75 to about 90 and the guy just kept about 10 feet from me the whole way. Needless to say, I pulled off to the side of the road rather soon after that.
 
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