Does doing exactly the speed limit in town make me a jerk?

[Omnis]

My dad's middle brake light bar is a bright 3-flash strobe that fires after you haven't touched the brakes in like 5 seconds or something like that. Works pretty well.

 

[Dragonistic]

Sort of rant over. To summerise, we're not certainly sitting in the cab grinning at the queue behind.

I'm not saying they or you are happy about it, I know how bad it is being stuck at slow speed on a high speed road and it's certainly not enjoyable. I also understand the need to move and be on the road, but I just wish they wouldn't do it in rush hour, once they reach a thinner stretch or place where overtaking is dangerous (or a HGV is behind) and entire traffic flow gets ruined and I know there are other routes they could often take because I use the same routes to get around it.

Any other time would at least not make multiple people late regularly. That said recently it's not been as bad in my own experience, though there is one local farmer who uses his tractor (on L plates) as a daily driver and goes to the shops in it which is truly obnoxious.

 

[wfooshee]

It was an experiment to show how dumb the lower speed limit is on highways. They were going exactly the speed limit so they couldn't have gotten a ticket.

Actually, yes they can, in some states. Florida just missed passing such a law earlier this year. Refusing to allow faster traffic through would be a moving violation, just like speeding or right-of-way violations. Even if faster traffic was faster than the speed limit. And those guys should have been held liable for anything that happened in traffic behind them.

I remember while teaching my kid to drive, we came into very heavy traffic northbound on I-75 in Florida, south of Gainesville. It's 3 lanes each way, and we could see heavy traffic for a couple of miles ahead as we crested hills. Finally we got to where we could see clear road, then the logjam, and I told Josh that this was what rear-view mirrors were for. Sure enough, we got their, and some geezer is hunched over the wheel, looking terrified, doing 58 in a 70, in the leftmost of 3 lanes. Had miles of traffic stacked behind him, clear road ahead. And he was only blocking one lane, not all three!

Everybody knows that the speed limit on an interstate highway is probably the slowest traffic, except for trucks on hills or some vehicles that probably shouldn't be on the road anyway.

Sitting in the left lane with the cruise set .005% different from the car you're "passing" is mind-boggingly frustrating, and mind-boggingly stupid. The cruise control is not a lock. Mash the #*%&ing gas and get by so the queue behind can get on with their lives.

As for the original post, depends. If you get a line of 8 or 10 cars, then you're being a jerk. Nothing you have to do is so important as to interfere with that many other people's right to get on their way. One person behind you in a hurry, tough toenails.

 

[niky]

In a rear-end collision, the driver behind is almost always at fault. You can be taken to court for "intentionally" causing a collision, but that is very difficult to prove. It may not be right, but that's how our justice system works.

Which, interestingly enough... is how a few insurance scams work... box a guy in... then have the front car brake-check him to cause a collision. Works mostly because people aren't aware of the situation and tailgate.

-----

For me, the brake-light is a last resort, one that's preceded by me slowing down subtly... then a whole lot (leaving a three or four car gap to the car in front), followed by a slow brake down to below the limit. I've had guys ride my butt at 20-30 km/h over the limit when there are free lanes over to the left (passing side in this country)... and it's not only irritating as hell... having experienced being rammed in the rear by inattentive and impatient drivers twice (the first time, the guy was going so fast that even braking from ten car lengths away, he shoved his front bumper a foot deep into my rear hatch), I do what I need to do to ensure that my rear seat passengers aren't in danger when a truck decides to break down right in front of us.

Not going to leave a three-car gap to my bumper? Well, I'll add yours to mine and we can sit six car lengths behind the guy in front of me (all while matching his speed). No rush.

 

[Northstar]

Actually, yes they can, in some states. Florida just missed passing such a law earlier this year. Refusing to allow faster traffic through would be a moving violation, just like speeding or right-of-way violations. Even if faster traffic was faster than the speed limit. And those guys should have been held liable for anything that
happened in traffic behind them.

Thing is that there was no faster traffic as the flow of traffic was going the speed limit. I also don't see why they should be liable for anything that happens behind them because it's not their fault if some idiot is too busy talking on his phone or whatever they may be doing and runs into someone.

As for the original post, depends. If you get a line of 8 or 10 cars, then you're being a jerk. Nothing you have to do is so important as to interfere with that many other people's right to get on their way. One person behind you in a hurry, tough toenails.

It goes both ways though, unless it's an actual emergency(being late for something is not an emergency as cops have pointed out several times), nothing is so important that you can't go the speed limit for awhile. I'm not going to go faster than I feel comfortable going(or risking getting a ticket in a car that isn't mine) so somebody I don't know(or care about) can get to the store(or where ever they seem to be hurrying to get to) ten seconds faster.

As for the tailgating thing, I just look in my rearview mirror, laugh and hope a cop sees them(which has actually happened 3-4 times).

 

[mustangGT90210]

I've only read the first page of this thread, so I'm sorry to anything I missed. Just wanted you guys to know beforehand.

I seem to get this impression from people behind me. I'm having a higher incidence of tailgating than I can remember, and they're throwing ruder gestures, too.

But I'm following the law. They're breaking it. Who's right, here?

Technically, you're right. The only time you'd be being a jerk is... Nah, you're following the law there, and they can go around you if they feel the need, on any road.

Hell, sometimes I drive where my speedometer says I'm doing a perfect 45, but in reality it's closer to 40, just to piss people off, if they are tailgaters. Elaboration below...

But sometimes necessary to get some 🤬-holes to back off. Just make sure they're paying attention and don't hit you.

Ahh the brake check. I got that one down, and I don't really even care if they hit me, because my back bumper will just about total their car and it'll just bend a little. <3 steel truck bumpers. (Where I live, only the cars do this. Anyone in a truck drives it like a normal person)

When I notice someone is tailgating me, I'll brake check, then coast down to what the speed limit is, and then go a little under, and if they're still there a little later, it's time for another brake check. Nobody rides my ass, especially a-holes!

 

[LeftyWright69]

Speeding only makes sense if you can gain enough time to make it worth something. Example: 65 mph SL and your 10min late to work, you would have to go 75 mph for an hour to gain aprox. 10 min. If a ticket for going over the SL by 10 mph is $100 then you would have to make $600/ hr to break even, if you wanted to work 10 min pay for the ticket, or if you wanted to take all day to pay for the ticket then you would have to make $12.50/hr and that&#8217;s not taking into consideration the taxes they take out for that days wages or the increase in your insurance rates&#8230;&#8230;..ouch!

 

[Famine]

Ahh the brake check. I got that one down, and I don't really even care if they hit me, because my back bumper will just about total their car and it'll just bend a little.

And if they hit someone else as a result of taking evasive action because you're trying to force them to crash?

When I notice someone is tailgating me, I'll brake check, then coast down to what the speed limit is, and then go a little under, and if they're still there a little later, it's time for another brake check. Nobody rides my ass, especially a-holes!

The sort of person who'd tailgate is the same sort of quick-to-anger dick who wouldn't think twice about passing you, cutting you off/up and then slamming on their brakes. I trust you've never seen "Duel"?

People sometimes act like morons on the road. That's not a free pass for you to act like a moron right back at them. Drop your pride, let them past and let them have their accident somewhere else.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Keep the focus on your own driving and let them get on with behaving like a cock. If you're concerned about them doing it right behind you, pull off/over and let them get on their way to behave like a cock somewhere else. I quite enjoy being tailgated, so I allow it to continue.

My partner who was hit in the back once, gets very nervous from people tailgating, up to the level that the attention for the road in front is not sufficient according to me. So people tailgating also introduce danger and possible accidents and evasive manouvers (like pull off/over where it is not convenient to do so)!

Actually in France on the "Peripherique" helicopters measure the distance between cars and people tailgating get pulled over by motorcyclists and fined.

People sometimes act like morons on the road. That's not a free pass for you to act like a moron right back at them. Drop your pride, let them past and let them have their accident somewhere else.

Lead by example and complement people when they do something good even if they did everything wrong before. Still is most useful according to me.

 

[Famine]

So people tailgating also introduce danger

Of course they do. That doesn't give carte blanche to escalate that danger by brake-testing them.

(like pull off/over where it is not convenient to do so)

What a wholly bizarre thing to say. I don't recall advocating that you immediately dive out of their way regardless of any other factors.

If you're comfortable being tailgated, do nothing. If you're not comfortable being tailgated, let them past. There is no third way unless you want to act like as much of a moron as they are.

Actually in France on the "Peripherique" helicopters measure the distance between cars and people tailgating get pulled over by motorcyclists and fined.

Well that's a terrific solution. If you're being tailgated in Baton Rouge, just drive to the Paris ring-road and they'll be fined.

Lead by example and complement people when they do something good even if they did everything wrong before. Still is most useful according to me.

Huh?

 

[FoolKiller]

As for the original post, depends. If you get a line of 8 or 10 cars, then you're being a jerk.

How so. They are behind him, meaning that they were not there before he began driving down that road. He did not pull out and then slow down on a line of traffic. He is driving the way he normally does, and fully within the law. Because 8 or 10 people chose to break the law it makes him the jerk? I don't see the logic.

Nothing you have to do is so important as to interfere with that many other people's right to get on their way.

As the topic says though it is "in town." To me in town looks like this:

That's likely because that is where I grew up. But there are cars parked along the sides that can pull out, pedestrians crossing the street from business to business, children and families, and various other things that should require proper attention when driving "in town." Nothing those 8 or 10 people have to do is so important as to ignore those factors, or to make them request someone who is being attentive and maintaining a safe speed behave differently.

And as those 8 or 10 people have, as you say, a right to get on their way, are police giving out speeding citations violating their rights? Or do they not actually have a legal right to get on their way in whatever fashion they choose?

 

[wfooshee]

Thing is that there was no faster traffic as the flow of traffic was going the speed limit.

Of course there was faster traffic. How did all that traffic stack up behind them if they weren't going faster up to the point they could proceed no further?

Leading to my point below . . . .

How so. They are behind him, meaning that they were not there before he began driving down that road. He did not pull out and then slow down on a line of traffic. He is driving the way he normally does, and fully within the law. Because 8 or 10 people chose to break the law it makes him the jerk? I don't see the logic.

Traffic is like crowd motion, but unfortunately, it's single file. If one car is running along, even within his rights at the speed limit, he can impede numerous other vehicles, something not actually possible in a crowd in a hallway. Once that impediment has affected enough people (big line stacked up behind him) that should be taken as a clue that a certain discourtesy is being done. Ease the speed up just a tad.

My assumption here is that this is a business-type road, not a residential street. In a neighborhood, stick to the limit. There's not gonna be a crazy queue formed up there, anyway. But in a business district, most traffic runs a little over, and running at the limit when you know that is just rude. Unless your license is in jeopardy there's no reason not to run with traffic, even if traffic is 5 or 10 over. Impeding traffic is more dangerous than running with traffic.

 

[Famine]

Ease the speed up just a tad.

No.

Nine people who want to break the law should not coerce a tenth who wants to remain legal to join them - and it is no defence to break the law because 90% of people want you to.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Most annoying thing I know of: 2 lane road narrows to 1 lane. Cruise is set exactly at the speed limit. Person behind you keeps their distance until it narrows and then they start tailgating.

Particularly when you've got to make a left turn right after they climb up your arse.

 

[mustangGT90210]

And if they hit someone else as a result of taking evasive action because you're trying to force them to crash?

If they're tailgating, I doubt evasive action is their first idea. They're breaking the law, all I'm doing is lighting up my brake lights in front of them. Common sense says for them to hit their brakes. Lord knows they'll stop faster than a 20 year old pickup truck

The sort of person who'd tailgate is the same sort of quick-to-anger dick who wouldn't think twice about passing you, cutting you off/up and then slamming on their brakes. I trust you've never seen "Duel"?

People sometimes act like morons on the road. That's not a free pass for you to act like a moron right back at them. Drop your pride, let them past and let them have their accident somewhere else.

I only get tailgated on 2 lane back country roads, never where there's passing lanes. And I'm not about to inconvenience myself by pulling over just so they can go on. I'm going at least the speed limit, they can deal.

Most annoying thing I know of: 2 lane road narrows to 1 lane. Cruise is set exactly at the speed limit. Person behind you keeps their distance until it narrows and then they start tailgating.

Particularly when you've got to make a left turn right after they climb up your arse.

It's even more "fun" when it's dark, just a 2 lane road, there's 2 Crown Vics behind you, you're on the brakes, blinker on, start into your left turn and by the time you're halfway through your turn the idiot 2 cars back has jumped into the left lane and rammed YOUR front fender. Ask me how I know. 👎

 

[Famine]

If they're tailgating, I doubt evasive action is their first idea. They're breaking the law, all I'm doing is lighting up my brake lights in front of them. Common sense says for them to hit their brakes. Lord knows they'll stop faster than a 20 year old pickup truck.

They're breaking the law. All you're doing is behaving dangerously and stupidly. Do you believe "common sense" plays any part in the thought processes of someone who thinks they need a 3 foot stopping distance?

I only get tailgated on 2 lane back country roads, never where there's passing lanes. And I'm not about to inconvenience myself by pulling over just so they can go on. I'm going at least the speed limit, they can deal.

The last line is correct. The fact you'd brake-check someone indicates that you're the one who can't "deal".

If it bothers you, pull over. If it doesn't, ignore them. These are your two options. Brake-checking is stupid and dangerous.

 

[mustangGT90210]

They're breaking the law. All you're doing is behaving dangerously and stupidly. Do you believe "common sense" plays any part in the thought processes of someone who thinks they need a 3 foot stopping distance?

These people that need the 3 foot stopping distance all have better brakes than me, and I have a bumper that will mess their day up if they decide to bump it. It's all on them. But no, common sense would not be one of their strong points, I completely agree with that one.

The last line is correct. The fact you'd brake-check someone indicates that you're the one who can't "deal".

I deal with it just fine, I brake check for the hell of it. And just by firing the brake lights, not actually applying brake. And even that's few and far between. They would have to ride my butt for miles on end before I tried anything. It's my way of telling them to be more aware of their surroundings.

 

[Famine]

It's all on them.

No. No-one has ever crashed from being 3 foot away from someone else at 60mph. If they bump you when you brake-check them, you are 50% to blame - they may have been following too close to avoid an accident but your actions caused one. On purpose, at that.

I deal with it just fine, I brake check for the hell of it.

You change your driving behaviour according to the aggressive driving habits of others. That doesn't sound like "dealing" to me.

So long as you think brake-checking is just fine, you aren't going to get this.

 

[mustangGT90210]

No. No-one has ever crashed from being 3 foot away from someone else at 60mph. If they bump you when you brake-check them, you are 50% to blame - they may have been following too close to avoid an accident but your actions caused one. On purpose, at that.

So you're telling me no one has ever crashed when a semi ("lorry"?) blows a tire and they're riding that trucks ass? It's just stupid to be that close anyways.

And yes, if I slowed down at all, I'd be 50% to blame, but not at all by just lighting up the brake lights.

You change your driving behaviour according to the aggressive driving habits of others. That doesn't sound like "dealing" to me.

So long as you think brake-checking is just fine, you aren't going to get this.

I'm a teenager, so it does seem like dealing to me. Nothing bad has come of it, and it's just how I drive.

And with that, I'm just going to agree to disagree here, neither of us are going to sway the others opinion!

 

[Famine]

So you're telling me no one has ever crashed when a semi ("lorry"?) blows a tire and they're riding that trucks ass?

No, I'm telling you that no-one has ever crashed just from "riding that truck's ass". The clue is in the words I said and requires no interpretation.

When the semi tyre blows, that precipitates the accident. The fact they're too close to it completes the accident. Neither alone causes a crash.

It's just stupid to be that close anyways.

Yes. But it's not your job to police the roads. We refer to the people who exhibit behaviour of trying to deliberately cause other drivers to crash by acting stupidly as "road captains".

And yes, if I slowed down at all, I'd be 50% to blame, but not at all by just lighting up the brake lights.

No. Any action you make which causes another driver to act confers blame upon you for that act.

If you rest your foot on the brake pedal so the lights come on and they panic and crash, you are 50% to blame for that crash.

I'm a teenager, so it does seem like dealing to me.

I can tell.

Nothing bad has come of it

Yet.

and it's just how I drive.

And I'm trying to get across to you that it's not how you should drive.

If someone is tailgating you, either deal with it and carry on or pull over and let them behave like a moron somewhere else. Don't behave like just as much a moron as they are.

 

[crooky369]

I'm a teenager, so it does seem like dealing to me. Nothing bad has come of it and it's just how I drive.

Teenagers have enough problems keeping 80hp cars on the road so how have you managed to get a job driving a truck and the money to cover the insurance on a Mustang?

Is insurance extremely cheap in the US?

 

[CTznOfTime]

@ thread question:

If it is.... then i shall become a jerk... because i am tired of getting speeding tickets...

I just got one this morning...
I am still sick and tired of people associating speeding with dangerous driving...
... but the law is the law... and so today i shall give up my rebellious attitude for the more civilian BOT-like attitude...

 

[FoolKiller]

Teenagers have enough problems keeping 80hp cars on the road so how have you managed to get a job driving a truck and the money to cover the insurance on a Mustang?

Is insurance extremely cheap in the US?

Insurance isn't extremely cheap, and it varies by region and many other factors as well as age, but if it is your only expense it isn't hard to cover.

As a teenager he is likely on his parents' insurance, likely as a secondary driver (make its cheaper), and there is even a chance that he doesn't pay for it himself.

EDIT:

@ thread question:

If it is.... then i shall become a jerk... because i am tired of getting speeding tickets...

I just got one this morning...
I am still sick and tired of people associating speeding with dangerous driving...
... but the law is the law... and so today i shall give up my rebellious attitude for the more civilian BOT-like attitude...

Cruise control, if you have it, is your friend.

 

[crooky369]

@ thread question:

If it is.... then i shall become a jerk... because i am tired of getting speeding tickets...

I just got one this morning...
I am still sick and tired of people associating speeding with dangerous driving...
... but the law is the law... and so today i shall give up my rebellious attitude for the more civilian BOT-like attitude...

What? Surely going quicker is always going to be more dangerous with less time to react and longer breaking distances?

 

[mustangGT90210]

Teenagers have enough problems keeping 80hp cars on the road so how have you managed to get a job driving a truck and the money to cover the insurance on a Mustang?

Is insurance extremely cheap in the US?

When I got hit back when I was on my learners permit, it scared the retarded driving out of me before I ever got a chance to do it, which is without a doubt a good thing. It left me with a much higher respect for vehicles, and I drive my truck like so. More space between me and the guy in front of me than necessary, always being aware of my surroundings, and overall not being stupid. (aside from the "brake check" as I see how that is seen as irresponsible and stupid)

The Mustang is my fathers, I was 3 months into my permit when I got hit, he was sitting in the passenger seat and to this day tells me it wasn't my fault and there was nothing I could do about it. And he's anal about that car.

On the insurance front, it's about 1300 per year just to keep me on the policy, and it's 700 a year for insurance on the truck. I'm the primary driver, and it's in my dads name even though I paid, for lower insurance rates. I pay the 700 on the truck, and thank god my parents cover the 1300, otherwise I wouldn't be driving.

To cover gas and all, I have 2 jobs, 1 day a week at a horse farm and 16 hours at a bamboo nursery per week. And I'm 17

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Teenagers have enough problems keeping 80hp cars on the road so how have you managed to get a job driving a truck and the money to cover the insurance on a Mustang?

We do?

News to me. I know I'm not the absolute best driver in the world, but I've got less than no problem controlling the vehicle and adjusting for conditions.

 

[eSZee]

C) The tailgater.

He did not leave appropriate space between his vehicle and mine.

For a brake check, assuming you intentionally, suddenly applied brakes and slowed down, then A and C. Your intent to scare him or make him react played as much of a role as his inappropriate driving.

It's still the child unless you can prove you stopped in time and the tailgater did in fact cause you to hit the kid. He'll get a ticket for failing to avoid a collision but unless proven otherwise, it's most likely ruled an accident.

Thing is that there was no faster traffic as the flow of traffic was going the speed limit.

Obviously, impeding traffic is illegal last I checked.
"Impeding traffic is typically defined when not operating a vehicle reasonably, so as to block the normal flow of traffic. It typically is used in cases where a person is blocking an intersection or driving too slow and causing a log jam. Laws vary by jurisdiction, but are generally follow a standard of "reasonable operation". The following is an example of a state law governing impeding traffic:

" 169.15 Impeding traffic.

No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law or except when the vehicle is temporarily unable to maintain a greater speed due to a combination of the weight of the vehicle and the grade of the highway. "
"

Of course that right there contradicts what was said earlier in the quote.

 

[mustangGT90210]

We do?

News to me. I know I'm not the absolute best driver in the world, but I've got less than no problem controlling the vehicle and adjusting for conditions.

This. Hell, I can make my truck slide off road and still be in total control. I don't do that on road though, too dangerous

 

[homeforsummer]

We do?

News to me. I know I'm not the absolute best driver in the world, but I've got less than no problem controlling the vehicle and adjusting for conditions.

Correct. A car is only as powerful as the proportion of that power you use.

That said, younger drivers are more likely to use a greater proportion of whatever power they have.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

This. Hell, I can make my truck slide off road and still be in total control. I don't do that on road though, too dangerous

Exactly.

Correct. A car is only as powerful as the proportion of that power you use.

That said, younger drivers are more likely to use a greater proportion of whatever power they have.

Won't disagree with that second bit at all, but for the most part it's not how much power you use or have, but for how long you apply it. You might have 400hp, but if you only use all of it for the time it takes to go from 30 to 70 (such as getting on the freeway) it's not unsafe to do so (given there's nobody in front of you who isn't already up to target speed).

Although I have been speed matched getting on the freeway multiple times because people are complete arseholes; accelerating to prevent someone from merging into the slow lane to the point you're undertaking everyone else is not exactly a good idea. Especially when they were doing the speed limit coming off the curved on-ramp. Then you let off when they do. >_>