Does PD Want us to "Cheat"?

[Abriael]

It's quite simple. Gold without assists isn't and shouldn't be accessible to everyone. Otherwise there wouldn't be any meaning in having a ranking system.

The difficulty level of the challenges is very nice.

And starting from last place and working your way up is not racing!

Is it not? So in real races the ones that starts last in the grid is not racing? How droll.

 

[NewMoon]

Im Pretty sure Poly Phony Digital are working hard right now to fix this problem for 1.06. Or 2.00?

Thank You!

 

[YellowG1]

I don't much mind SRF as I do the people who brag about how "easy" events are or brag that they golded some event "first try" without telling us they're relying on SRF. If people want a pure simulation that's fine and if people want an easier ride, that's fine too Just don't pretend you're some amazing racer when you're not telling people you're using SRF.

 

[WhiteAnimal166]

I go full monthy on GT5, but take it normal instead of Death Incarnate on most FPS's.

Only thing I wonder about, some here race without it most of the time, and just turn it on for events they can't get gold on fast enough. Why is gold more important than to give yourself time to improve, or accept you've driven to the very best of your abilities but there are some challenges you can't beat yet? Isn't there the ultimate challenge??? Basically you want do drive without, otherwise you'd use it all the time.

I'd say, play on the game and in a few month you return to the event (I know this doesn't apply for the seasonal events) and you notice the diference, thus giving you a measure on how much you've improved over time. THAT sort of thing would give me satisfaction.

Everybody's own choice whether to use it or not of course. I choose not to, but I won't judge others who fare well with it. So many gamers, so many different approaches.

It's a game option, so no reason to consider it a cheat. Only wish replays would show more info on used settings, driver aids and car tune options to better be able to place a certain laptime or achievement in the correct context.

 

[SoMe0nE2tAlK2]

Just curious since we're discussing "cheats"

Anyone manage to do the Redbull X2010 challenge on Monza without cutting the 2nd chicane?

 

[carlosy]

Just curious since we're discussing "cheats"

Anyone manage to do the Redbull X2010 challenge on Monza without cutting the 2nd chicane?

Easy...

I golded it with my lefthand using only a pad without assists, while I was eating lobster with my right hand and learned quantum physics for my exam. BTW, I am 12. So, it should be easy for everyone over 8 or maybe 9.

 

[EmptyBox]

It's a game option, so no reason to consider it a cheat. Only wish replays would show more info on used settings, driver aids and car tune options to better be able to place a certain laptime or achievement in the correct context.

By that same logic, as I mentioned in the first post

Cutting the second chicane at Monza is fair game.
Cutting the Chicane at the Nurburgring (Both the GP track and Hohenrain (sp?) at the end of the Nordschleife) is fair game.
Cape Ring? Straight line em, it's fair.
Deep Forest? Fair game (Again, you could debate this one as legit)
Suzuka? Go for it, cut that Casio Triangle in half. why not.

It's an option just as well as SRF. There is nothing but logic telling me that I should stick to the racing surface, but that doesn't mean I have to.

SRF is a cheat because unlike an assist it has zero downside. It's pretty safe to assume that in all but extremely rare situations everyone will be faster with it. It's a pretty huge difference.

 

[JJ72]

Go to Arcade races menu, select Professional, propper tyres, depletion/wear on, no assists, heavy damage, real trackside reduction, take 10 laps of any track, put HUD off - and prepare to be amazed.

Heavy damage will significantly change the way you drive, tackle the opponents and cope with the track.

It is the hard-core of hard-core. Best AI and driving ever in video games.

Errr.....they are still at least 2 second a lap slower than me, and I am not the absolute best in racing games.

I guess you have never experienced the 110% AI in Rfactor. GT5's AI is not the quickest nor the smartest (F12010 beats that).

 

[JJ72]

I am not a GOD player by any means, but I am %99 certain that RX7 seasonal event cannot be completed without RSF no matter what you do to the car.

Than you are already proven wrong by a number of posters on this forum, every single challenge so far can be golded without SRF.

 

[JJ72]

sorry but it's just a game and should be enjoyable not impossible.

Just because you can't gold everything it is not enjoyable? When you do your best and improve upon yourself, it is enjoyment.

by the same token, is guitar hero not enjoyable because less than 1% of the players can Full Combo Through the fire and flames on expert?

You don't have to ace a game to enjoy it, people seem to have taken winning every trophy in games for granted.

 

[EmptyBox]

Errr.....they are still at least 2 second a lap slower than me, and I am not the absolute best in racing games.

I guess you have never experienced the 110% AI in Rfactor. GT5's AI is not the quickest nor the smartest (F12010 beats that).

rFactor AI is marginally better than GT5. It's horrible. Instead of braking on exit, they just run you over as you brake for corner entry! lol

GP4 still has the best AI ever.

I think it's important to mention the fact that there are two input options, one of them being a wheel which is clearly faster in every regard with equally skilled users, and a DS3 which is what the masses use.

 

[atsinged]

This is my first racing sim, in fact I think I only played one racing game in the past, as a kid on a Commodore 64. I am a pretty hard core sim player, though mostly with submarines, which are about as far removed from GT5 as can be imagined. In short, I'm probably about as fresh to racing sims as you can get.

I do admit that things like spending an hour getting in to position and setting up a firing solution on a single ship or end game EQ raiding probably mean I have a higher grind tolerance than most. Anyway, here is my take on a lot of this.

I'm going to count myself as a hard-core player, even though I still suck, because I love the game and I know that with practice, I won't suck in the future. You wont see me online until I can at least delude myself in to thinking I can race clean.

The hard core vs. casual argument shows up everywhere in the sim and MMO world and bluntly it will never go away in mass marketed products. The sim / end game MMO communities are similar and not nearly large enough to support products like GT-5, Silent Hunter, WOW, Everquest and Eve Online. So to make a product we can enjoy, they have to appeal to a broader base and give the more casual player lots of things to do and offer easier ways to do them. Smart companies can do this and throw enough bones to the hard core crowd to keep them entertained.

So far, my impression of GT5 is that it is doing an OK job of toeing the line, favoring the casuals, but more tuning options and difficulty ratings would correct it.

I do fully support the idea of difficulty ratings based on aids and perhaps car used impacting experience and payout from a race. A race with a "fair" car and minimal aids nets 100 percent, and the percentages can go both up and down from there. Winning with an underpowered car, with all aids off should get a nice bonus. Running a vastly overpowered car with training wheels should get perhaps half.

So the question someone will ask, especially since this is my first post, is what did I, as newbie do?

I turned off all the assists except for driving line (which I see as a learning tool) and started running in to things and doing license tests over and over to learn techniques. Over time, I'm running in to fewer things and seeing more and more of those pretty gold cups over events I've done. The license tests and specials DO have their place, at least in teaching people like me, who are just learning the game, and want to really learn the game, things we need to know.

 

[WhiteAnimal166]

By that same logic, as I mentioned in the first post

Cutting the second chicane at Monza is fair game.
Cutting the Chicane at the Nurburgring (Both the GP track and Hohenrain (sp?) at the end of the Nordschleife) is fair game.
Cape Ring? Straight line em, it's fair.
Deep Forest? Fair game (Again, you could debate this one as legit)
Suzuka? Go for it, cut that Casio Triangle in half. why not.

It's an option just as well as SRF. There is nothing but logic telling me that I should stick to the racing surface, but that doesn't mean I have to.

SRF is a cheat because unlike an assist it has zero downside. It's pretty safe to assume that in all but extremely rare situations everyone will be faster with it. It's a pretty huge difference.

Of course that's not the type of option I meant, but I like the to-the-point-ness of your reply

It shall come as no surprise to you that I agree that the sort of options you counter argument are cheats / unfair behaviours at least, but still of a different nature than an in-game setting that's perhaps implemented not well and offers an unfair advantage despite the person who's using it has no obvious unfair intentions. For me there's a nuance difference, but don't know how to explain.

 

[RobGT81]

Just because you can't gold everything it is not enjoyable? When you do your best and improve upon yourself, it is enjoyment.

by the same token, is guitar hero not enjoyable because less than 1% of the players can Full Combo Through the fire and flames on expert?

You don't have to ace a game to enjoy it, people seem to have taken winning every trophy in games for granted.

Agreed.. whats the point in gold trophies if they arent a challenge to get? Gold should only be possible without driver aids. There needs to be some incentive to improve. GPL was great for this, just as you thought you were getting faster the AI scaled up.

 

[opladener]

Actually in all A spec races you can see your typical opponents you will race up against. It's right up there next to entry requirements.

I know that, theres just no way to see if they use the cars stock or tuned to hell.

 

[RWB1213]

Tough is good to a point, then it just becomes tedious. As much as I hate to say it, the GT franchise has a long history of deploying tedious challenges. Select seasonal events are flat out tedious if you are not going to deploy the aids. I'm waiving the white flag and running the Focus Challenge with SRF tonight- 6 hours of finishing 1-3 sec behind is more than enough time invested. In the end, I feel cheated two ways, the challenge is too hard without the assist(1), so I'll have to use the assist to complete the challenge with a gold(2.) I also agree with some of the other posts that criticize the fact that A-Spec is largely year/make/model without any hp/tire restrictions. This has made A-Spec terribly boring. The "challenge" factor of GT needs a good thorough cleaning up.

 

[tazmanuk]

can i ask a question? to late ive started so ill finish.

in real life racing dtm/gt/formula 1 etc do they use tcs and asm?
if they do then surely it is ok to use in game. ok sfr is different but some of us need the help!

 

[mindspin311]

Isnt SRF basically Stability control? Its a device that keeps the car in line and keeps it from understeering or oversteering.

Suer sounds like stability control to me.

Do you guys think otherwise?

 

[SoMe0nE2tAlK2]

can i ask a question? to late ive started so ill finish.

in real life racing dtm/gt/formula 1 etc do they use tcs and asm?
if they do then surely it is ok to use in game. ok sfr is different but some of us need the help!

The problem isnt with TCS and ASM as they clearly have a downside (laptimes are notably slower with them on than off unless you're relying on them for stability).

The problem is Skid Recovery Force with magically gives you more grip with zero downsides.

 

[RobGT81]

Isnt SRF basically Stability control? Its a device that keeps the car in line and keeps it from understeering or oversteering.

Suer sounds like stability control to me.

Do you guys think otherwise?

Spin Recovery is more than stab control, its like running super slick tyres on the best handling car ever made (x1) even though your driving a ford focus on comfort tyres. You can blaze into corners doing whatever speed you want and the car just seems to grip. I dont know why people use it, it makes a mockery of the games pretty good physics.

 

[jbrennen]

I always figured they should have an Iron Man setting for the career mode -- chosen at the time that you start the game.

In an Iron Man career, you can't use any driving aids not present on the real car -- so cars which have ABS can use it, cars without, nope. Skid Recovery Force, no, of course not. TCS and ASM on a '61 Jag E-Type? Heh heh, sorry.

Also, in an Iron Man career, mechanical damage is dealt out to your car and can actually put you out of a race. Same with running out of fuel -- if you run out on track, you have no engine power. Downshift at the wrong time and over-rev the engine and it blows up. Car damage must be repaired between races with real "money" (credits).


The sim fanatics will choose Iron Man. 90% of folks won't, and won't care about it. The Iron Man guys can compare themselves with each other, and look down at those who aren't Iron Men. Those non Iron Men will of course think that the Iron Men are crazy masochists, and maybe they are.

 

[namregzepol]

I always figured they should have an Iron Man setting for the career mode -- chosen at the time that you start the game.

In an Iron Man career, you can't use any driving aids not present on the real car -- so cars which have ABS can use it, cars without, nope. Skid Recovery Force, no, of course not. TCS and ASM on a '61 Jag E-Type? Heh heh, sorry.

Also, in an Iron Man career, mechanical damage is dealt out to your car and can actually put you out of a race. Same with running out of fuel -- if you run out on track, you have no engine power. Downshift at the wrong time and over-rev the engine and it blows up. Car damage must be repaired between races with real "money" (credits).


The sim fanatics will choose Iron Man. 90% of folks won't, and won't care about it. The Iron Man guys can compare themselves with each other, and look down at those who aren't Iron Men. Those non Iron Men will of course think that the Iron Men are crazy masochists, and maybe they are.

+1 but we need some way of mark ourselves so we know who is iron man or not.

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

Oh yeah SRF is really bad and so is the X1, both hurt GT5's credibility IMO.

 

[ChicoMaloXD]

At the end of the day, this is just a game that tries to appeal everyone.

 

[slick1ru2]

It was to do with the large margin of skill levels of people who buy the game and appealing to all of them. Just like in real life, some drivers are on a different level then others even though they are racing the same class cars. This is a game that kids to the elderly enjoy. You want to make it so that you can customize so those finding it too easy can adjust it to be more of a challenge and vice versa. The same with all video games from Madden to COD and their Easy to Extreme modes.

 

[ItsHim]

SRF is a cheat because unlike an assist it has zero downside. It's pretty safe to assume that in all but extremely rare situations everyone will be faster with it. It's a pretty huge difference.

SRF has one major disadvantage - it kills all the fun. And there's little point in driving left once SRF takes charge.

Tried it myself yesterday for the second time for the Special event on Laguna Seca - just couldn't be bothered to mess with the car and wanted the extra cash and XP on offer.

It's probably a good tool for novices to learn the track, nevertheless, and keep frustration low because there is a terrible lot to learn about driving in GT - mastering the car, mastering the track and mastering the race.

To me, it's a good tool to skip the races I can't be bothered to do properly. More time to re-run those I really fancy with all kind of different cars.

Track-cutting, however, is heavily frowned upon in online races, and rightly so.

I think anyone who can beat a player using SRF while no using any aids (including ABS) himself is a true iron man. And should quit playing video games and get his or hers carrere in motorsports going

 

[atsinged]

Even as a newb, I'm opposed to tools like SRF and really think they are a bad crutch, even for learning.

It's probably a good tool for novices to learn the track, nevertheless, and keep frustration low because there is a terrible lot to learn about driving in GT - mastering the car, mastering the track and mastering the race.

Good point, but it would seem to me that someone is in for a very rude shock when they are used to tearing around a track in a fully (and probably poorly) tuned car and then take the training wheels off and realize they have to completely change the way they built and drive it.

I've been hitting the seasonal events pretty hard, for a low level like me they seem to be good money and exp and I've kind of developed a process for approaching them. I buy the car and leave it stock then drive a number of easy laps around the track in practice mode, learning both the track and how the car behaves on it. I can usually lose a few seconds each lap by pushing a little harder here and there and hitting a cleaner entry and exit there.

Once my lap times are reasonably consistent and I think I'm starting to hit my and the car's limits under the circumstances, I'll start looking at the tune and tweaking it while entering a few races to see how I do.

I have a silver in the fiat, silver in the GT-R but was hitting a wall (literally and often) in the RX-7 until I did the above, now I should silver it pretty quick. I've raced the Challenger once after starting like that and took 6th my first outing, more practice and tweaking will bring it down.

Why not gold? I need more practice, not an easy button.

 

[namregzepol]

Even as a newb, I'm opposed to tools like SRF and really think they are a bad crutch, even for learning.



Good point, but it would seem to me that someone is in for a very rude shock when they are used to tearing around a track in a fully (and probably poorly) tuned car and then take the training wheels off and realize they have to completely change the way they built and drive it.

I've been hitting the seasonal events pretty hard, for a low level like me they seem to be good money and exp and I've kind of developed a process for approaching them. I buy the car and leave it stock then drive a number of easy laps around the track in practice mode, learning both the track and how the car behaves on it. I can usually lose a few seconds each lap by pushing a little harder here and there and hitting a cleaner entry and exit there.

Once my lap times are reasonably consistent and I think I'm starting to hit my and the car's limits under the circumstances, I'll start looking at the tune and tweaking it while entering a few races to see how I do.

I have a silver in the fiat, silver in the GT-R but was hitting a wall (literally and often) in the RX-7 until I did the above, now I should silver it pretty quick. I've raced the Challenger once after starting like that and took 6th my first outing, more practice and tweaking will bring it down.

Why not gold? I need more practice, not an easy button.

+1

I need more practice too.

The same with all video games from Madden to COD and their Easy to Extreme modes.

I think that's what we need. Different Modes with different aids. (GT Live / Arcade?)