Does this explain AI contact/aggression?

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I noticed that the AI cut corners a lot, notably the tight 10th corner at Fuji (bottom left on the map)

In the replay from the GT500 race, I noticed that all AI ahead of me were cutting that turn so badly, their outside wheels were on the curb, halfway into the grass. I guess the AI outside of me was going to let me have the inside line, but when I didn't cut the corner he just smashed into me because I wasn't far enough inside for him.

Also, I agree with OP, the collision boxes on cars seem to be perfect boxes that don't conform to curves. I'd like to do some testing with collision detection on the Deltawing.
 
The issue is that some of these things have been done in games probably more than a decade a go.....EA's F1 game from my PC days have AIs that you at least for the most part not having to worry about turning in on you....same AI essentially persisted in most Simbin's game...
 
Interesting. The collision detection is bigger than the car. Nice, that would explain a lot. In GT5, the rolling start at Nurburg, there was always one AI that would bounce off the wall before the green, and there was like a foot of space between the wall and the car. They should make the collision box slightly smaller than the surface of the car.
 
The other day I messed up the settings on my GT-R Black on SSX, so my max speed fell off at like 256mph I think? At the end of the second straight one of the Veyrons caught up to me, went a bit to the left, the immediately went back spinning me out at 256mph... I was driving in a straight line... FOR OVER 8000 METERS... I wasn't turning, I wasn't trying to dangerously pass... I was driving straight... and he just spun me out like he was meaning to do that on purpose... it was done perfectly... if this is just a mistake, PD programmed the best pitting simulator...
 
ebadevil
if this is just a mistake, PD programmed the best pitting simulator...
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Pretty much, yes. It's really unfortunate in one way, but so funny because of it.
 
I think the ai just think that your cars hitbox is smaller and think they can get closer to you then they actually can. 🤬 that sentence sucks but I cant be bothered.
 
@hsv010 here is the video to bring this thread back up to snuff..


Even though it is obvious physical, and theoretical contact occurred, it can be observed that there is no "observation" that the AI will take into account.

I also just wondered if this is what is the problem with Forza's drivatar or whatever...
 
Sometimes, especially at high speed, they literally do not see you. They are blind.
 
Just my two cents, I think there is definitely a collision detection issue that wasn't occurring in GT5, I noticed this in some of the slalom licence challenges, and some other challenges where I apparently clipped cones but was sure I hadn't (I use chase cam)

As for the revised AI, generally prefer it as it's far more challenging but it can be harsh at times. The opposition seem to think little of running you off the track when you have the racing line and are level or even ahead, and whilst I don't think they should give up when you are directly in front of them, constantly pushing the back of your car isn't ideal either. To me the AI just seems adjusted to be a little less sporting, rather than actually improved.
 
Want to know where the crashbox boundaries are on any given car? Take it to a photomode location and hit select. The blue box is very likely the same one that is used for the cars "boundaries" on track.

Is this the problem? Yes. Could they make the box smaller? Theoretically yes, but then it would also let whatever part of the car is outside of the box sink into anything it comes in contact with and PD doesn't seem to like that unless it's the tires, which ironically is yet another problem with "the box".
 
Two things I found annoying on AI.
  • They tend to take an unnecessary winding line in the straight. They mostly do the classic out-in-out through corners, so far so good, but in the following straight, they don't stay outside but step into the middle. They do this even when they should stay outside for the next corner. In many cases they do this, Nurb, Ascari, Apricot hill etc. Is this a blocking? Looks like it but too early because they tuck outside again near the coming corner. It's just an unreasonable and unnecessary maneuver. I found it's new in GT6.
  • When contact happens, AI's reaction, if any, is pushing you back, no matter where the track leads to. For example, in a left hand corner, you're on outside and making contact with AI at the inside, it just gives up its own correct line and wholeheartedly fights against you -- heading right to push you, instead of going left as it should. It's no good to itself and stupid. This is an old stupid issue from previous GT.
 
daan
The AI cannot "see", so a visible boundary will probably mean nothing to them.

I'm sure it would be easier to program them to know where the box is rather than the numerous different individual shapes of each car.
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It certainly would. In fact, it wouldn't be a difficult feat of coding to figure out the collision boundary in a plan view of each model, at a very low perimeter resolution you could calculate it in milliseconds... and you only really need to do it once per-car per-race-loading.

The slightly-off collision boxes (now so much better than old GTs) are just another one of those mad not-quite-right Gran Turissmo details, after all this time I'm sort of learning to live with it :D

EDIT: @smskeeter23 : No, the blue box in photomode isn't the collision box, that would be ludicrous... cars wouldn't visibly their corners within a meter of each other if that were the case ;)
 
When your car comes in contact with an AI car they seem to behave like they weigh 200 tonnes. What ever you do to them or whatever they do to you ****s you up and has almost no effect on them.
 
They need to give us all the sliders instead of just the roughness / aggression one:

ai_skill
ai_skill_breaking
ai_skill_cornering
ai_skill_accelerating
ai_skill_starting
ai_roughness
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Please Polyphony, do the right thing and fix this disaster.


Other AI stuff:

enemy_lv
enemy_bspec_lv
bspec_lv_offset
gap_for_start_rolling_distance
rolling_start_v
use_rolling_start_param
ai_script_crc64
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Whistle Snap
They need to give us all the sliders instead of just the roughness / aggression one:



Please Polyphony, do the right thing and fix this disaster.


Other AI stuff:
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Those, along with the mention of brake fade from the same source, are just as likely to be newer controls for as yet unimplemented features.

The slider we get could affect all of those controls, or none. We don't know what the code is doing, and we don't know what parameters aren't exposed like those in that list, or are exposed in a different list somewhere else.


If AI improvements are coming, plus sounds, plus potential geometry visibility control for the new course maker tracks, plus aero, data logging, triple-screen etc. it's possible there's a whole other branch to the codebase that includes these things, and we're currently playing the one with all the legacy stuff in it. This would be less work to manage than having separate branches for each successive addition of each feature as it becomes available.


The collision issue is clearly just badly tuned distance parameters for the AI, or some disagreement between the data the AI is using for car sizes and that the collision system is using.
 
The only hope I have for better A.I. is with the "new, more powerful B-Spec mode."
 
starknight97
When your car comes in contact with an AI car they seem to behave like they weigh 200 tonnes. What ever you do to them or whatever they do to you ****s you up and has almost no effect on them.
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Haha, yes I often feel the same, but not always. Sometimes, there're chances to push them out or into the wall if you find and keep a good line :lol:

Nevertheless, it seems they know very well when I'm struggling in catching the floating tail and give me a hit right at the perfect moment & perfect angle, just like what the cop does to a car thief in movies. A snapping 180, what else? :irked:
 
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