Dont forget dlc! (circuit/tracks)

[dhandeh]

Obviously gt5 is going to sell by the bucketload and we would love to have all tracks that have ever existed on the disc from the start, but dont forget dlc.

If this 20 track with variations is the truth (we dont know yet), some will certainly be missing. Tracks like autumnring, grand valley etc, all being original tracks could be made available as dlc, we would be happy (even though we have to pay), sony will be happy (extra revenue) and pd will be happy (continuing development).

There will probably be region track packs released aswell, Japan, Britain, touring car tracks, rally tracks etc. The possibilities are endless.

I cannot believe the tracks available on the disc will be the only ones we get.

 

[Devedander]

My love hate relationship is turning more and more into hate hate...

It seems DLC is being used as a money grab more and more and less as a way to give gamers more of what they want at reasonable prices.

We got the Day 0 DLC out there which is literally ready before the game is on store shelves.

We have the on disc DLC which is even worse becuase it was actually coplete when the game went gold and you just have to pay extra to get access to it even though it's already on your disc.

We have the lockout used gamer DLC which is "free" for buyers of new games however which costs money for used gamers. Basically a tax on used gaming which the new buyer actually pays because he will take a hit on his sell price down the road.

And more and more it just seems like DLC is less and less "you finished your whole pie, would you like to buy another slice?" and more "You paid for a pie, here is a quarter of a pie and we will sell you the other 3 quarters a bit at a time so you don't realize your whole pie costs twice what a normal pie should cost".

Everyone is excited about DLC but honestly with the way DLC is going we are just ending up with pretty much the same content we used to expect in a "compelete" game but it's stretched out so you don't get it all at once and by the time you do get it you have paid almost $100 for your game.

Honestly look at all the DLC out there (MW2 is the prime example) and ask yourself this:

If you add the price of the DLC to the original price and then stick all the DLC content into the original box, would you have bought it at that price?

Would you have paid $90 for MW2 if it had shipped with a few more maps and some throwback maps?

I dunno, I always hear about DLC in such a good light and honestly I think 90% of the time it's just another way to screw the customer out of more $$$.

/rant

 

[Tired Tyres]

Whilst I agree with what you're saying, you can't say PD are screwing us out of content in GT5. I think in this case DLC will be welcome.

 

[alba]

I think knowing KY/PD's philosophy, they'll try to go the valve road of releasing a lot of content free of charge and then after quite a while they'd offer paid DLC packs. At least that's the way I see it

 

[dhandeh]

Unfortunately this is the way things are, the powers that be know that dlc will shift so thats why they do it.

The content already on disc that is unlocked should be banned, that is totally out of order. MW2 dlc, is basically 75% old maps from MW1 and world at war, that they know will shift.

GT5 dlc will sell by the bucketload, i would rather it be free, anyone would, but its all about making money and dlc will do that. Im afraid there is not alot we can do about it, if you dont buy it, 10 people will.

 

[newbielives]

I hate the idea of DLC, it gives the accountants and business men too much room to screw the customer over by holding back content

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I wont be paying for any DLC for GT5 so as long as its free, I will be fine with that. I am sure the game will need plenty of patches within the first few months anyway. Especially the online. This is their first attempt at online and the will have a lot of bugs to work out.

 

[MasterFocus]

I'm ready to pay! Playstation Card are not that expensive since a 20$ card is in fact 20$ tax in

 

[JDM-GT5]

i would not mind having DLC later on after the game is released and maybe even another type of greatest hits game where all the DLC is available. For example MCLA Complete edition was awesome.

 

[Stevisiov]

While this is true, DLC tracks are a real pain to work into an already released game structure.

The career mode already has all its tracks pre-selected, so buying tracks afterwards won't be in the career mode and only arcade mode, this doesn't fully utilise the usefulness of the track.

'But I only care about online mode!' I hear you say. Great, but before you can race against you're friends, they have to have bought the downloadable extra tracks first, if they haven't, you can't race against them at those tracks. That would be a real pain for GTP competitions btw.

 

[Devedander]

Whilst I agree with what you're saying, you can't say PD are screwing us out of content in GT5. I think in this case DLC will be welcome.

Honestly if the track count is as low as it's shaping up to be, as nice as the tracks are looking it makes no sense to me that they couldn't get more (especially ficticious) tracks in there.

If the track count is reasonably high out of the box and a few really sweet deals come around I might rethink, but it would have to be a pretty sweet deal (I'm talking like $3 a track or something).

I stick by my motto of "If the game had included the DLC cost in the sticker price and included the DLC content in the box would I have been ok with that price?"

I'm ready to pay! Playstation Card are not that expensive since a 20$ card is in fact 20$ tax in

Burn through one of those cards and GT5 becomes an $80 game... 2 of them and it's a $100 game... with DLC pricing standards the way they are going today (nothing comes out for less than $5 anymore and $10 and even $15 is not crazy for a content pack) and it woudln't be hard to imagine turning GT5 into a $100 game just to get a decent number of tracks on board.

 

[Worthy1066]

I personally think Sony has told PD to leave out some tracks for DLC for 1 reason only and that was KY said there will defo be no DLC a while back .Suddenly E3 possible chance of DLC Sony has a lot a muscle and knowing the company that it is Mr Yamauchi's ideal world tends to get bent towards Sony's ideal world

 

[opladener]

Usually I would agree with you, especially when it comes to DLC already on the disc (I'm looking at you, Capcom !)

But with GT5, we're getting so much content already (800+ cars !) that I would happily spend some money on a "classic GT track pack" or something like that.

That and when you compare the playing time you get out of GT5 to other 60€ games, GT5 is actually really cheap. Hell, I spent more than that on gas last weekend for just a few hours riding the bike.

Some games are REALLY worth their money, and GT has always been a prime example of that.

 

[Sidders]

My love hate relationship is turning more and more into hate hate...

It seems DLC is being used as a money grab more and more and less as a way to give gamers more of what they want at reasonable prices.

We got the Day 0 DLC out there which is literally ready before the game is on store shelves.

We have the on disc DLC which is even worse becuase it was actually coplete when the game went gold and you just have to pay extra to get access to it even though it's already on your disc.

We have the lockout used gamer DLC which is "free" for buyers of new games however which costs money for used gamers. Basically a tax on used gaming which the new buyer actually pays because he will take a hit on his sell price down the road.

And more and more it just seems like DLC is less and less "you finished your whole pie, would you like to buy another slice?" and more "You paid for a pie, here is a quarter of a pie and we will sell you the other 3 quarters a bit at a time so you don't realize your whole pie costs twice what a normal pie should cost".

Everyone is excited about DLC but honestly with the way DLC is going we are just ending up with pretty much the same content we used to expect in a "compelete" game but it's stretched out so you don't get it all at once and by the time you do get it you have paid almost $100 for your game.

Honestly look at all the DLC out there (MW2 is the prime example) and ask yourself this:

If you add the price of the DLC to the original price and then stick all the DLC content into the original box, would you have bought it at that price?

Would you have paid $90 for MW2 if it had shipped with a few more maps and some throwback maps?

I dunno, I always hear about DLC in such a good light and honestly I think 90% of the time it's just another way to screw the customer out of more $$$.

/rant

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, MW2 is a poor example. I bought the game at release for £25 and bought the first map pack for £11 so has cost me a total of £36. Not bad for a game that has a RRP of £49.99.


I will be buying the special edition of GT5 and, if i am being totally honest with myself, will more than likely pay for any DLC that is released. Purely because I am such a big fan of GT and will want the full experience.

 

[dhandeh]

I can understand the point of using MW2 as an example, there is probably a total lack of effort into the map dlc packs (many recycled maps from previous games from the same gen), and the game generally still retails at around 35 to 40 pounds.

GT5 dlc will again probably be old tracks from previous games, but main difference from a previous gen. Hopefully these circuits and new ones will be almost like the real thing (i wont mention 2d trees).

 

[balang_479]

My love hate relationship is turning more and more into hate hate...

It seems DLC is being used as a money grab more and more and less as a way to give gamers more of what they want at reasonable prices.

We got the Day 0 DLC out there which is literally ready before the game is on store shelves.

We have the on disc DLC which is even worse becuase it was actually coplete when the game went gold and you just have to pay extra to get access to it even though it's already on your disc.

We have the lockout used gamer DLC which is "free" for buyers of new games however which costs money for used gamers. Basically a tax on used gaming which the new buyer actually pays because he will take a hit on his sell price down the road.

And more and more it just seems like DLC is less and less "you finished your whole pie, would you like to buy another slice?" and more "You paid for a pie, here is a quarter of a pie and we will sell you the other 3 quarters a bit at a time so you don't realize your whole pie costs twice what a normal pie should cost".

Everyone is excited about DLC but honestly with the way DLC is going we are just ending up with pretty much the same content we used to expect in a "compelete" game but it's stretched out so you don't get it all at once and by the time you do get it you have paid almost $100 for your game.

Honestly look at all the DLC out there (MW2 is the prime example) and ask yourself this:

If you add the price of the DLC to the original price and then stick all the DLC content into the original box, would you have bought it at that price?

Would you have paid $90 for MW2 if it had shipped with a few more maps and some throwback maps?

I dunno, I always hear about DLC in such a good light and honestly I think 90% of the time it's just another way to screw the customer out of more $$$.

/rant

This is true, but dont forget Kaz mentioned the bluray disk is basically full, so extra DLC may be necessary without turning the game into a 2 disk.

 

[Robin]

Why is anyone asking for DLC BEFORE the game is released! Its that kind of mentality that makes developers think they can hold finished stuff back that could have been boxed to rip you off sometimes even at the day of release.

Everything done for the game should be on the disk all the way up until the date they go gold. Period. I don't think we should even hear the word DLC for GT5 till months or even a year after release.

Robin.

 

[Devedander]

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, MW2 is a poor example. I bought the game at release for £25 and bought the first map pack for £11 so has cost me a total of £36. Not bad for a game that has a RRP of £49.99.


I will be buying the special edition of GT5 and, if i am being totally honest with myself, will more than likely pay for any DLC that is released. Purely because I am such a big fan of GT and will want the full experience.

Well you got it on sale and certainly picking games up on sale makes it feel a lot better but I think the point still carries. That would be like saying it's ridiculous that BMW charges $30k for air conditining however I got a smokin deal on my BMW at $40k off MSRP so it's not a bad deal really.

Basically what I am getting at is MW2 MSRP is $60, the map packs are $15 each for 2. Obviuosly accounting for currency conversion, let's say at launch at was $90 for MW2 but it had all those maps from the map packs in it, woudl you have said "that's a good price!" or "WTF that's not worth $90"

Even if you got it on sale for half off, lets say instead of $30 on sale it's $60 on sale but you get these maps... would you say "sweet that's a good sale price" or "WTF that's full price for a game, not a sale, this whole "Extra maps" thing is a scam!"

 

[dhandeh]

I think the reason im asking for dlc (if that is the only way to do it), is because i have waited so long for this game, if the disc is full, i want more. If it is free to start off with great, but if i have to pay so be it.

Given the choice between 1000 cars and 20 tracks (or however many we get), i would prefer less cars and more tracks, but sony know it will be easier to shift tracks as dlc than vehicles.

 

[gtone339]

DLC: updating all of 800+ standard models with interior detail.

 

[Devedander]

This is true, but dont forget Kaz mentioned the bluray disk is basically full, so extra DLC may be necessary without turning the game into a 2 disk.

Would making it a 2 disk really have been so bad? Especially considering every PS3 has a hard drive so you can count on the ability to install.

Why is anyone asking for DLC BEFORE the game is released! Its that kind of mentality that makes developers think they can hold finished stuff back that could have been boxed to rip you off sometimes even at the day of release.

Everything done for the game should be on the disk all the way up until the date they go gold. Period. I don't think we should even hear the word DLC for GT5 till months or even a year after release.

Robin.

Exactly... DLC has gone from "extra goodies down the road" to "what can part out and sell as "additional" for extra profit?"

 

[Sidders]

Well you got it on sale and certainly picking games up on sale makes it feel a lot better but I think the point still carries. That would be like saying it's ridiculous that BMW charges $30k for air conditining however I got a smokin deal on my BMW at $40k off MSRP so it's not a bad deal really.

Basically what I am getting at is MW2 MSRP is $60, the map packs are $15 each for 2. Obviuosly accounting for currency conversion, let's say at launch at was $90 for MW2 but it had all those maps from the map packs in it, woudl you have said "that's a good price!" or "WTF that's not worth $90"

Even if you got it on sale for half off, lets say instead of $30 on sale it's $60 on sale but you get these maps... would you say "sweet that's a good sale price" or "WTF that's full price for a game, not a sale, this whole "Extra maps" thing is a scam!"

I wasnt disagreeing with you m8, I started by saying that I agree with what you originally said, and i certainly understood it.

Just thought MW2 was a bad game to use as an example.

 

[Snaeper]

Kaz has mentioned he doesn't want to release an "unfinished game". So the only reason I see DLC becoming available is for the same use that it was in GT5 Cars that are released after the game is. I would love to have a pack that includes the latest SEMA Winning car along with concepts and production vehicles that had been released that year. Could even split it for Free/Paid DLC, with paid being premium car models, and free being standard. Although Premium AND free would be preferred.

I wouldn't release tracks for DLC. I'd keep those for the next GT game as an incentive to buy, plus they might take forever to download. I also wouldn't do what Forza is doing by releasing DLC packs with cars that could've very well been in the game when it was released.

 

[Devedander]

I wasnt disagreeing with you m8, I started by saying that I agree with what you originally said, and i certainly understood it.

Just thought MW2 was a bad game to use as an example.

I was just saying I think it is in fact a good example, you just happen to be an exception. Maybe it's a bad example for you in particular and those like you (actually I almost always buy my games on sale in the first few weeks so it's not exactly accurate for me either) but the point was valid in general.

I can't think if a game that illustrates it better (even if it doesn't necessarily for those who managed to score it on sale).

 

[Devedander]

Kaz has mentioned he doesn't want to release an "unfinished game".

To be fair, Kaz has also said he is never really done and even when the game is released he is still working on it basically in prep for the next game.

Basically think of GT as a long journey and every release we get is basically where they are on that journey at that time, never really the end result (or at least not for a long time).

And honestly, can you say from what we know about KY and his style that he considers a game with 200 premium cars and 800 standard cars "finished"? You know he wants them all to be the same cailbur.

 

[Dazzla]

GT5 is the only game where I would actually pay to DLC such as cars and tracks.

 

[fade]

Well, once they have released GT5, where do they go from there? Start working on GT6?

I'm not a huge fan of DLC, I wouldn't say no to some for GT5. In fact, since this game is already pushing the PS3 to the limit, what would be the point in a GT6? Why not just supplement GT5 with expansions/DLC?kr

 

[shadynader]

If a game is worthy of its price tag in the first place and i feel im getting something for my money, I have no problem buying DLC if it interests me.

With a BluRay almost full of a game series i know and love i can safely say that i will have no problems in that respect. As long as the DLC is worked on after the games locked down and is not mostly contained on the disc and unlocked for a price, nobody will have a problem with that, after all, nobody wants to work for free.

 

[Devedander]

Well, once they have released GT5, where do they go from there? Start working on GT6?

I'm not a huge fan of DLC, I wouldn't say no to some for GT5. In fact, since this game is already pushing the PS3 to the limit, what would be the point in a GT6? Why not just supplement GT5 with expansions/DLC?kr

Generally as soon as a game is released (if it's reasonable to assume there WILL be a sequal) the work for the sequal begins and is often underway.

The reason being that you have to plan your game around what technology you have available and what you think you can accomplish, but by the time you get done with it, it's almost certain all kinds of crazy possibilities are available to your future that just can't really be patched or worked into this game. Perhaps entire new lighting and rendering techniques that would involve rewriting huge chunks of the game to squeeze into it. And there is always hardware... PS4 maybe?

So what would be the point of starting GT6? To get crackin on GT6... that would be a point much of it's own. I personally think we will see on more GT on the PS3 and then it's off to PS4 world... and I think GT6 will really be ultimately what GT5 should have been.

GT6 I would expect will involve the end of Premium/Standard cars and more tracks and basically fleshing out the foundation GT5 is shaping up to be.

If a game is worthy of its price tag in the first place and i feel im getting something for my money, I have no problem buying DLC if it interests me.

With a BluRay almost full of a game series i know and love i can safely say that i will have no problems in that respect. As long as the DLC is worked on after the games locked down and is not mostly contained on the disc and unlocked for a price, nobody will have a problem with that, after all, nobody wants to work for free.

I take measuring a game in terms of it's on disc size with a grain of salt. There is no arguming a BR full of content is a lot but a lot depends on why it's that big (and how big really that is as I believe KY has only said it's "almost" full).

Basically like I said, if you add the price of the DLC to the buy price and I still thought it was a good price, I am ok with it.

 

[shadynader]

I take measuring a game in terms of it's on disc size with a grain of salt.

Thats why i said...

With a BluRay almost full of a game series i know and love i can safely say that i will have no problems in that respect.

Its a combination you see

I believe KY has only said it's "almost" full.

Thats what i said...

With a BluRay almost full of a game series i know and love i can safely say that i will have no problems in that respect.

See, almost, its right there. ^

Basically like I said, if you add the price of the DLC to the buy price and I still thought it was a good price, I am ok with it.

Different method to my own but i see what your saying. Now i understand why you seem to be against DLC.