Double clutch gearboxes

[GT'S BiG FaN]

Why does most DCG equipped cars shift so slowly, like the Ferrari 458 & the McLaren MP4-12C, only the GT-R & the veyron shift like a DCG.

 

[Raitziger]

They did not bother to update shift times. Quite simple really. Most players do not even know what dual clutch transmission is.

 

[THEPUNISHER]

A question that i'm searching for an answer for it , why o why .

Raitziger Diamond Member Online Now!
They did not bother to update shift times. Quite simple really. Most players won't even know what dual clutch transmission is.
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when the nissan gt-r black edition released the gearbox shift like something really slow and one of my friend heard me complaining about it then he said maybe its slow real life .

how can they make it slower than before ?

and that story proves that most people don't know about DCG , my friends think the aventador have almost the fastest shifts ever nissan gt-r r35 and veyron are just faster .

 

[Vegard]

The time it takes from selecting the next gear to the time it is engaged is pretty much spot on. The thing that is wrong is when the delay occurs.

In a roadcar with a double clutch gearbox the delay come right after you select the gear, meaning the car continues to accelarate for a short while before it breaks propulsion and shifts.
In GT5 the propulsion is broken the second you press the button.

If GT5 had real gearchange simulation we'd have threads complaining about the long reaction time from pressing the button to gearchange.

If you look at inboard footage of an SLS AMG you will be shocked by how long it takes for the 'box to react.
The pause in propulsion is very short but the reaction time is Tiptronicish slow!

 

[BlackSeries]

In real life, GTRs tranny is tuned for very aggressive shifts, thats why it get such a low 0-60times.

And far 458 goes, the 1st gear always hit the rev limiter for tenth of a sec...it annoy the hell out of me.

 

[Tornado]

Why does most DCG equipped cars shift so slowly, like the Ferrari 458 & the McLaren MP4-12C, only the GT-R & the veyron shift like a DCG.

Because they didn't care. That's also why there are a couple hundred cars with automatic transmissions in the game and less then a dozen of them actually have automatic transmissions according to the game engine.

 

[counter345]

I'm guessing because they were more focused on trying to get the core bits of the game more finished (such as A-spec) than the specific detailing of the transmission. Just a thought.

 

[karelpipa]

A spec needs complete overhaul, so i dont think they were focusing on this particular area, but your idea might be true :-)

 

[HuskyGT]

If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of DSG equiped cars in the game that don't even act like they have one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VW Scirocco R20, VW Golf R20, Audi TT 3.2 Quattro (both) and Audi TTS come equiped with DSG's as well. They should shift like the GTR, the Veyron and the Evo X. They should also act like an automatic when going to a complete stop (just like the ones mentioned).

Also, it's funny that the Ferrari California mimics the DSG better than the 458. I'm not sure, but don't they share the same tranny?

And I agree. Most people can't tell the difference between a SMG, an old F1 or a Cambiocorsa, for instance, which are nothing more than electronically controlled MANUAL transmissions without a physical clutch pedal. Now, a DSG (direct shift gearbox) or like you guys call it a DCG, is in escense an automatic transmission with two separate clutches. One clutch holds one gear ready with all the power of the engine while the other clutch has already engaged the gear, thus when changing gear, there is no loss of power.

I remember that the first car I saw with this type of transmission was the old Audi TT 3.2. Then it was used in the Golf GTi MK5. The transmission proved to be so superior, yet less sophisticated than the old sequential transmissions that even Ferrari, and BMW have now gotten rid of their F1 and SMG respectively.

Feel free to correct me. This is what I learned many years ago in a Motor Trend magazine when they tested the Audi TT 3.2 DSG and explained how the transmission worked.

 

[THEPUNISHER]

If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of DSG equiped cars in the game that don't even act like they have one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VW Scirocco R20, VW Golf R20, Audi 3.2 Quattro (both) and Audi TTS come equiped with DSG's as well. They should shift like the GTR, the Veyron and the Evo X. They should also act like an automatic when going to a complete stop (just like the ones mentioned).

Also, it's funny that the Ferrari California mimics the DSG better than the 458. I'm not sure, but don't they share the same tranny?

And I agree. Most people can't tell the difference between a SMG, an old F1 or a Cambiocorsa, for instance, which are nothing more than electronically controlled MANUAL transmissions without a physical clutch pedal. Now, a DSG (direct shift gearbox) or like you guys call it a DCG, is in escense an automatic transmission with two separate clutches. One clutch holds one gear ready with all the power of the engine while the other clutch has already engaged the gear, thus when changing gear, there is no loss of power.

I remember that the first car I saw with this type of transmission was the old Audi TT 3.2. Then it was used in the Golf GTi MK5. The transmission proved to be so superior, yet less sophisticated than the old sequential transmissions that even Ferrari, and BMW have now gotten rid of their F1 and SMG respectively.

Feel free to correct me. This is what I learned many years ago in a Motor Trend magazine when they tested the Audi TT 3.2 DSG and explained how the transmission worked.

👍

The most wierd and funny thing is when you install a transmission for the GT-R R35 for instance suddenly the GT-R R35 become a manual gear box for no obvious reason .

 

[Raitziger]

Sometimes it feels like there is some "automatic" force that drops revs in gear change and car won't start pulling until revs are at specific point. This seems to be more strong in high revving cars like 458 italia.

 

[HuskyGT]

Another car that does mimic the DSG transmission is the Mercedes Benz SLS AMG. Which is correct since it has the SpeedShift DCT-7.

The C63 AMG, also acts like it has a high performance DSG when shifting(not when stopped), the problem is that the C63 has the regular 7-speed SpeedShift which is an auto tranny, not a DSG.

The SL55 is one of the few automatics that acts like one, but the SLR McLaren despite having a modified version of the old 5-speed SpeedShift (which is basically the same transmission), acts like a manual. What is PD thinking? They always do things at random



[wikipedia, you're the best]

 

[MrMY02WRX]

Out of interest, do any of these paddle shift boxes change without a pause when you pull the paddles?

I'm a bit of an old man when it comes to my thoughts on transmissions, I absolutely hate every automatic gearbox in any car that I have ever driven, & though I'm aware of their advantages, I am simply not capable of understanding why anyone who actually enjoys driving would choose one over a H-pattern shifter. The more I have a go at different automatics, the more I realise how much of my personal driving enjoyment is based on shifting gears manually.

Some time ago I took a very simple manual function automatic for a test drive. That is, an auto where you can slide the bar over into a manual gate to shift gears yourself. When I drove I couldn't believe the horrendous pause between you bumping the stick and the car changing gears, and when it did you got that same crappy sliding thump you get when a car changes itself automatically. I thought to myself, geez, what's the point???

But that's seriously old-school technology now in the world of modern manually shifted autos and semi auto gearboxes, and I have yet to drive a paddle shift car of any sort. Do any of them behave at all like a manual when you select the gears, with a similar shift to what you get when you let the clutch out in a H-pattern only much faster?

Since all cars are going this way, (...groan....) I'd like to hope that there will be some enjoyable cars for me to drive in the future!!

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of DSG equiped cars in the game that don't even act like they have one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VW Scirocco R20, VW Golf R20, Audi TT 3.2 Quattro (both) and Audi TTS come equiped with DSG's as well. They should shift like the GTR, the Veyron and the Evo X. They should also act like an automatic when going to a complete stop (just like the ones mentioned).

Also, it's funny that the Ferrari California mimics the DSG better than the 458. I'm not sure, but don't they share the same tranny?

And I agree. Most people can't tell the difference between a SMG, an old F1 or a Cambiocorsa, for instance, which are nothing more than electronically controlled MANUAL transmissions without a physical clutch pedal. Now, a DSG (direct shift gearbox) or like you guys call it a DCG, is in escense an automatic transmission with two separate clutches. One clutch holds one gear ready with all the power of the engine while the other clutch has already engaged the gear, thus when changing gear, there is no loss of power.

I remember that the first car I saw with this type of transmission was the old Audi TT 3.2. Then it was used in the Golf GTi MK5. The transmission proved to be so superior, yet less sophisticated than the old sequential transmissions that even Ferrari, and BMW have now gotten rid of their F1 and SMG respectively.

Feel free to correct me. This is what I learned many years ago in a Motor Trend magazine when they tested the Audi TT 3.2 DSG and explained how the transmission worked.

Couldn't have said it better my self..

 

[Raitziger]

Out of interest, do any of these paddle shift boxes change without a pause when you pull the paddles?

Dual clutch gearboxes are the fastest there is (GTR, 911,M3). 2nd fastest are single clutch automated manuals(Ferrari F430, Audi R8). 3rd is race car driver with manual. Some automatics are also good like the ones in new MB AMG-cars, but generally they suck in performance driving.

 

[coolboy48]

Gah....

Details like these make me wonder what PD are doing sometimes.

The Evo X's TC-SST works proper too.

Maybe PD gave certain slush box autos the single-clutch physics as the latter can blip/rev-match on downshifts.

Can the SL55 AMG or IS-F rev-match?

How about the incorrectly specified 307 CC, C30, RS6, XK/XKR, Mustang GT and the rest?
(And that's only the premiums!)

Granted I cannot say the same about cars that should have twin-clutches.

 

[HuskyGT]

Out of interest, do any of these paddle shift boxes change without a pause when you pull the paddles?

I'm a bit of an old man when it comes to my thoughts on transmissions, I absolutely hate every automatic gearbox in any car that I have ever driven, & though I'm aware of their advantages, I am simply not capable of understanding why anyone who actually enjoys driving would choose one over a H-pattern shifter. The more I have a go at different automatics, the more I realise how much of my personal driving enjoyment is based on shifting gears manually.

Some time ago I took a very simple manual function automatic for a test drive. That is, an auto where you can slide the bar over into a manual gate to shift gears yourself. When I drove I couldn't believe the horrendous pause between you bumping the stick and the car changing gears, and when it did you got that same crappy sliding thump you get when a car changes itself automatically. I thought to myself, geez, what's the point???

But that's seriously old-school technology now in the world of modern manually shifted autos and semi auto gearboxes, and I have yet to drive a paddle shift car of any sort. Do any of them behave at all like a manual when you select the gears, with a similar shift to what you get when you let the clutch out in a H-pattern only much faster?

Since all cars are going this way, (...groan....) I'd like to hope that there will be some enjoyable cars for me to drive in the future!!

It's wierd, but even though DSG (or DCG) gearboxes are essentially automatics and most of sound like an auto tranny when changing gears (though incredibly faster), it's the feel what makes them different. You can't feel this in the game, but in real life, when you shift in one of these in their sportier mode, they feel like a CVT transmission (with their infinite gear) in where there is absolutely no loss of "pushing force" when engaging another gear. Bsically you can hear them shifting, and the engine dropping revs, but you can't feel it; the car just keeps on pushing and pushing which is why they are superior than the most sophisticated sequential tranny. Not even the fastest F1 transmission can do this since there will always be a brief loss of power when engaging a new gear, even if it's for a fraction of a second.

I haven't personally driven a car with a DSG transmission, but according with test drivers in car magazines, this is how they feel, and this is the reason why even manufacturers with the fastest, most incredible sequential transmissions (BMW's SMGIII and the last of Ferarri's street F1 tranny, just to name a couple) have swollowed their pride switched to DSG's.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I know the Aventador is only a Single CG.. But, it shifts from 1st to 2nd like a pig - HUGE pause in between those gears. It should be the fastest "Stock Road Car" in the game when it comes to shifting..

 

[THEPUNISHER]

I know the Aventador is only a Single CG.. But, it shifts from 1st to 2nd like a pig - HUGE pause in between those gears. It should be the fastest "Stock Road Car" in the game when it comes to shifting..

Yeah like sport clutch will make a big differences.

 

[1241Penguin]

All cars in the game seem to shift at the same speeds. That's probably why even traditional manuals will shift unrealistically fast. PD needed to find a speed that can "suit" manuals and automatics, probably because they didn't bother recreating them properly.