Down Tuning/Power Restricting. Exploitation or Useful Too?

[watermelon punch]

Sorry for not being clear. I'm saying that the limiter is misunderstood. People all seem to be assuming that going with the power limiter leads to domination online. So I assume that most people are super tuning and then limiting, but it might just make then end up slower. I'd really like to see a thorough test of the limiter to see which side is actually right.

You really think a non limited car is going to be better??

Is this offline? If so, it's not really a concern. Even if it was online, the rules say 98 hp.

How could someone have a LEAGUE offline??? (Did you actually read what I posted?)

So long as you make 98 hp, it's all fair. If the host wanted to give non limited cars a better chance to compete, PP would have been a better choice.

If you knew anything about these cars, you'd know how wrong you are about PP.
PP almost NEVER helps non-limited cars. Indeed, I think the problem becomes more pronounced when PP restriction is used!!!

And if this race is a league race here on GTP, it's possible to use both hp and PP, and car restrictions to make the race whatever the host wants.

Oh yes, because every GTP member is completely honest & trustworthy by default.
No one would trust that!
Many people involved in spec races constantly complain they continually wonder if they're really in a fair race.

I agree. But the problem isn't the limiter. It's people not using PP. All of what you say it valid under the hp and weight system, but vanishes as soon as PP is used.

I find the problem exists more pronounced in unfairness when the restriction is PP.
(Note: I'm talking about road cars - not cars which utilize massive downforce controls.)

And another problem with the PP system is that if you have a varied make race, there are ALWAYS certain cars that will be dominant at a particular PP.

PP doesn't make things easier for people to play fair. It makes it easier for the people willing to spend hours figuring out the flaws in the PP system, where they can get an edge.

Power limited cars always have less hp than non limited cars of the same PP.

But bundles more torque is always more desirable than a few more hp.

 

[Stigsblkcousin]

It works the same way for PP. If you take a car with 700pp into a 550pp room and down tune it to meet the restrictions, the car with the "true" pp of 700 is going to run off on a car the has a "true" pp of 550.

 

[Ecchi-BANZAII!!]

Some say that using the power limiter to down tune...

Some say that using the power...

Some say...

Stigsblkcousin

👍

Yeah some cars get an extremely high powerband when they use power restriction.
Nissan GTR SpecV '09 for instance does since it get constant BHP on the chart diagram after 4000RPM.

 

[Exorcet]

You really think a non limited car is going to be better??

With PP, it stands a good chance.

How could someone have a LEAGUE offline??? (Did you actually read what I posted?)

Yeah I read it all, just covering all bases.

If you knew anything about these cars, you'd know how wrong you are about PP.
PP almost NEVER helps non-limited cars. Indeed, I think the problem becomes more pronounced when PP restriction is used!!!

Now I'm quite sure that you don't understand how powerband and gearing factors into speed.

Take two identical cars, double the power on one, and then limit back to the original's PP. The limited car has less power. Buy the racing transmission for each car. The limited car can run gears farther apart, but it may not make the same overall power per gear as the "peaky" non limited car. The non limited car would be faster in that case.

Oh yes, because every GTP member is completely honest & trustworthy by default.
No one would trust that!
Many people involved in spec races constantly complain they continually wonder if they're really in a fair race.

How does honesty even factor in with hp, weight, and PP restrictions? You will need to meet the specs to enter the race, there is no way to cheat short of hacking the game.

I find the problem exists more pronounced in unfairness when the restriction is PP.
(Note: I'm talking about road cars - not cars which utilize massive downforce controls.)

Again, I don't think you've done enough research.

And another problem with the PP system is that if you have a varied make race, there are ALWAYS certain cars that will be dominant at a particular PP.

I've done 100's of online races and still have not seen a PP dominant car, only dominant drivers.

PP doesn't make things easier for people to play fair. It makes it easier for the people willing to spend hours figuring out the flaws in the PP system, where they can get an edge.

Exactly like any system ever made. However PP >>>>>>>>>>> hp and weight.

But bundles more torque is always more desirable than a few more hp.

Learn about gearing.

 

[watermelon punch]

Yes, I do understand how the power band factors in. I know very well how torque figures in.
The bottom line is... with PP - the power limiting SIMPLY BECOMES MORE WORK AND MORE TRICKY and fussy to find how to exploit the system. It does not prevent exploiting the power limiting system.

I notice the people who like the PP system the most are those who enjoy spending tons & tons of time tuning, trying to find every little edge.
And the people who dislike the PP system, are those who would rather just race people on mechanically similar terms. (Ie; not win because of a tuning/mechanical advantage)... and spend more time racing, less time tuning. (Maybe because they're too busy to figure out all the tricks on all the cars they'd like to race.)

HP/weight restrictions LIMIT the amount of fussing you have to do.

Some of us play this game for leisure time fun. IE: I don't want to have to learn more about the transmission!!!! I just want to race. I don't want to have to learn more about tuning flaws in the game to exploit. I just want to race. I don't want to spend hours figuring out the best PP for a car. I just want to race!!

Oh as for the honesty thing...

This was said:

And if this race is a league race here on GTP, it's possible to use both hp and PP, and car restrictions to make the race whatever the host wants.

That makes it sound like well, as long as it's people on this forum, you can trust them all to limit their own hp/weight within a PP restriction, or restrict their own PP within a hp/weight restriction, if you tell them to.
You can't assume every member of this forum won't cheat
There's no way in the game to set BOTH a pp and hp/weight restriction. Or even a PP/hp restriction. I would like that very much. But there just isn't an option for that.

And until that's an option, along with a game control to forbid power limiting, and even better a way to restrict individual tuning parts... The PP system gives an unfair advantage to anyone who just has more time on their hands to sit & fiddle, and also finds that fun.... over many of us who would just rather race!! I wish ALL cars were available in the Recommended Garage, for example. I would probably not even bother with tuning at all if that were possible to race ALL road cars in STOCK condition (knowing that NOBODY could be cheating).
The only cars I see any point at all to upgrading from their stock values for fun racing would be the super-low power antiques. Beyond that, I would have GREAT fun in racing all the road cars at their stock hp/weight values.

I KNOW I'm not the only one!!
And it's us who the PP system & power limiter really cheats the most in gt5.

The PP system benefits hard core gamers the most IMO.

 

[Exorcet]

Yes, I do understand how the power band factors in. I know very well how torque figures in.
The bottom line is... with PP - the power limiting SIMPLY BECOMES MORE WORK AND MORE TRICKY and fussy to find how to exploit the system. It does not prevent exploiting the power limiting system.

There is no power exploit. Yes, with hp/weight, a limited car is better. It's not an exploit, it's how the game is. And with PP it's not an issue (or at least some think so).

I notice the people who like the PP system the most are those who enjoy spending tons & tons of time tuning, trying to find every little edge.
And the people who dislike the PP system, are those who would rather just race people on mechanically similar terms. (Ie; not win because of a tuning/mechanical advantage)... and spend more time racing, less time tuning. (Maybe because they're too busy to figure out all the tricks on all the cars they'd like to race.)

HP/weight restrictions LIMIT the amount of fussing you have to do.

Some of us play this game for leisure time fun. IE: I don't want to have to learn more about the transmission!!!! I just want to race. I don't want to have to learn more about tuning flaws in the game to exploit. I just want to race. I don't want to spend hours figuring out the best PP for a car. I just want to race!!

I like PP for one reason, it provides the best and most fair racing in my opinion. I don't mind tuning cars, but I don't spend countless hours tuning my cars. I'd just rather not find a 600 hp room, enter, and get passed by all the wing equipped McLaren F1's which have a clear advantage (true story).

That makes it sound like well, as long as it's people on this forum, you can trust them all to limit their own hp/weight within a PP restriction, or restrict their own PP within a hp/weight restriction, if you tell them to.
You can't assume every member of this forum won't cheat
There's no way in the game to set BOTH a pp and hp/weight restriction. Or even a PP/hp restriction. I would like that very much. But there just isn't an option for that.

Limit one, have all drivers enter, then set the other limit while everyone is on track. Those cheating get kicked. You don't need honesty.

And until that's an option, along with a game control to forbid power limiting, and even better a way to restrict individual tuning parts... The PP system gives an unfair advantage to anyone who just has more time on their hands to sit & fiddle, and also finds that fun.... over many of us who would just rather race!! I wish ALL cars were available in the Recommended Garage, for example. I would probably not even bother with tuning at all if that were possible to race ALL road cars in STOCK condition (knowing that NOBODY could be cheating).
The only cars I see any point at all to upgrading from their stock values for fun racing would be the super-low power antiques. Beyond that, I would have GREAT fun in racing all the road cars at their stock hp/weight values.

I KNOW I'm not the only one!!
And it's us who the PP system & power limiter really cheats the most in gt5.

The PP system benefits hard core gamers the most IMO.

Using PP - find the best suspension, gearing.

Non PP - the above but in addition: find the car that allows the most downforce, gets the flatest powerband, and has the best chassis. -> Way more exploitable.

Secondly, without tuning, there are yet more exploits as you can't get cars to match performance. Set the rules to 600 hp and ~ 3300 lbs and the Viper ACR is the best car ever.

Thirdly, tuning is not cheating. I don't know why you're so against it. If you're losing because you can't put in the time to get better, that's not a bad thing.

Fourthly, you would probably do poorly against people who spend more time playing if there was no tuning.

 

[TimberW]

So far in the pre-season of the series that I'm running. PP seems to do its job well. And the use of the power restriction is limited to 90% to 100%. Of course there is no way of policing this area apart from the participants being honest about it.

There is a lot of tuning which will make the difference as well as driver skills. Different drive train seems to make a difference as well, that could also be the tuning and drivers skills again.

When it came down to two cars with similar PP, (I run 450PP on the series) I find that usually the cars are quite well matched.

 

[watermelon punch]

I like PP for one reason, it provides the best and most fair racing in my opinion. I don't mind tuning cars, but I don't spend countless hours tuning my cars. I'd just rather not find a 600 hp room, enter, and get passed by all the wing equipped McLaren F1's which have a clear advantage (true story).

I'll allow that you may be right when referring to PUB LOBBIES & restrictions.
I see what you mean, believe me.

But I'm talking about organized racing.

I gave up on ALL pub lobbies except Shuffle Racing & NASCAR ONLY, almost immediately after trying random pub lobbies.
As far as I can see... racing in pub lobbies 👎 It's problematic from the get-go to the finish line. A complete waste of time for me.

It's also absolutely devoid of any really interesting road car racing I'd be interested in. In pub lobbies, no matter what the room is labeled, it always turns into people bringing super cars or at least the Lotus Elise, or demanding that the PP limit be raised, again & again. That's how it goes.

Those of us who want to race the more unusual cars are unlikely to find anything in pub lobbies.
Because in pub lobbies, people only race the most competitive cars at any given pp... or in any given class for that matter.
People in pub lobbies seem to ignore 80-98% of the cars available in the game!

And that's just my complaints before you even get into the dirty driving tactics issue!!!
And how hard core gamers in pub lobbies know how to exploit the damage system, the penalty system, to their advantage.... etc etc.

And of course there's invariably some unsupervised child or someone with a mental problem who's likely to join at any moment & spoil things.

NOT a good situation if you're looking to MAXIMIZE your playing time.

For my interests, and the cars I want to race & the type of racing I'm interested in...
Pub Lobbies = Waste of Time

Limit one, have all drivers enter, then set the other limit while everyone is on track. Those cheating get kicked. You don't need honesty.

I already thought of that. And there's still a flaw.

As a host, I'd rather everyone could be 100% sure that *I* am not cheating too.
I wouldn't... but I don't want anyone to have any doubts, especially about the host!!

Using PP - find the best suspension, gearing.

Non PP - the above but in addition: find the car that allows the most downforce, gets the flatest powerband, and has the best chassis. -> Way more exploitable.

Again, we're talking about apples & oranges here.

You're talking about free car choice pub lobbies.

I'm talking about organized races with very specific car restrictions. Say, restricting to one class & banning outliers (the turtles & the hares). Or 1-make races (or 2-in-1 make races like the one I'm currently organizing). Or organized races with a very specific list of cars that are allowed.

When you're dealing with this type of racing, there's a lot less to worry about in terms of gearing under the hp/weight scheme, so long as the cars are not at maxed out.

Then it just becomes a matter of some quick tests with the transmission at the hp/weight limit... some adjustments on the suspension & LSD (that you might even find a set-up in the Tuning Section of the forum - which you can try out to see if it works for you, without ever having to start from scratch). And off you go.

No fussing with seeing what PP the power band is best at. You know what you're in for, you might try adding or taking off parts, but otherwise, it is what it is, and you set your transmission accordingly. Process complete.

Thirdly, tuning is not cheating. I don't know why you're so against it. If you're losing because you can't put in the time to get better, that's not a bad thing.

I'm not saying that all tuning is cheating.

But I would rather lose because of poor driving skills, than win because I have some great mechanical advantage trick I know and my opponent doesn't. So in that sense, yeah, I would see it as cheating... If I just win because I have a faster car, because someone couldn't spend an hour tuning & analyzing their power band, because they had to make dinner before the race... seems rather dull & stupid to me.

I'm not saying YOU shouldn't tinker with the power band and race in PP races if you enjoy that.

BUT I DO NOT. And I think that should be OKAY too!!!!
Not have some smart remarker tell me "learn gearing"
I don't think you would appreciate it if I told you that you should play the game in only stock cars from the recommended list and stop tuning!!!
So don't tell me I should play your way!
That's my point.

You should NEVER assume your way of playing this game is the right way.
Because believe me, after seeing the NASCAR ALL day series... I realized that "clean" means different things to different people, even on this forum!!!

Not saying it's wrong... Just saying that people have different ideas about how to race.
(ie: I'd seen cleaner random NASCAR pub lobbies than the GTP NASCAR lobby today. LOL)

Fourthly, you would probably do poorly against people who spend more time playing if there was no tuning.

I would say that's half true.
Only half, because people who spend more time playing, also spend more time tuning.
But of course, that's why I like highly organized hp/weight restriction races, where suspension, LSD, & transmission tuning is allowed.
I'm not so against tuning altogether.

But not complex PP tuning. It just amplifies the times I have to re-enter the track to run another timed lap test...
And I don't want to be studying graphs or making spreadsheets. I just want to set the car up, do a couple of test laps to check, and then race race race!!!!

Speaking of which, having lounge/lobby free run work like "practice mode" would be helpful too.
One of the biggest time wasters in GT5 is having to do an off-lap before getting to a timed lap in the lounge/lobby.
But unfortunately, I've found some cars that do behave differently in the lounge with the same settings as practice... so I think it's safer to tune online.

 

[watermelon punch]

So far in the pre-season of the series that I'm running. PP seems to do its job well. And the use of the power restriction is limited to 90% to 100%. Of course there is no way of policing this area apart from the participants being honest about it.

There is a lot of tuning which will make the difference as well as driver skills. Different drive train seems to make a difference as well, that could also be the tuning and drivers skills again.

When it came down to two cars with similar PP, (I run 450PP on the series) I find that usually the cars are quite well matched.

I wonder if the players are also well matched... in terms of tuning experience & racing experience. That could account for it more than your restriction method.

But having said that, I know your series has a rather more complex set of rules & scoring. So that may have an effect too more than your restriction method.

(I had been reading it in the past. I'm always interested in different ways people come up with, like the Lemons series... to mix things up a bit.)

 

[TimberW]

I wonder if the players are also well matched... in terms of tuning experience & racing experience. That could account for it more than your restriction method.

But having said that, I know your series has a rather more complex set of rules & scoring. So that may have an effect too more than your restriction method.

(I had been reading it in the past. I'm always interested in different ways people come up with, like the Lemons series... to mix things up a bit.)

You wouldn't really know if the players are matched well until you get on the track. After a while, looking at the leaderboard and race log, you can roughly figure out where you sit in terms of skill level.

Scoring is just experimental, but the data collected and calculating win ratios is "Solid" data, data based purely on "yes" and "no" results. So the win/lose ratio is simple but powerful enough to provide a good indication of how good a driver is.

Also, one good thing about players rating other players is that it's an incentive of letting people know what kind of a player you are, thus promoting cleaniness and good attitude. Thus allowing creating the battle rating system.

 

[watermelon punch]

You wouldn't really know if the players are matched well until you get on the track. After a while, looking at the leaderboard and race log, you can roughly figure out where you sit in terms of skill level.

Scoring is just experimental, but the data collected and calculating win ratios is "Solid" data, data based purely on "yes" and "no" results. So the win/lose ratio is simple but powerful enough to provide a good indication of how good a driver is.

Also, one good thing about players rating other players is that it's an incentive of letting people know what kind of a player you are, thus promoting cleaniness and good attitude. Thus allowing creating the battle rating system.

Yes I did notice that, and thought it was an interesting & possibly persuasive tactic.

Of course if there's various cars with various drivetrains... it may have more to do with player skill - rather than pure driving skill.. IE: if people are allowed to choose cars to suit their skills...
Well, I think you know where I'm going with that. That it's a bit different than say a 1-make race with everyone in a stock recommended vehicle as far as judging "driver skill" in a controlled setting.

But anyway, in that sense, your system may work with PP restriction... and may actually not be able to work with a hp/weight system. Because the car someone might perform best in, could get more easily dialed out by a hp/weight restriction.

Of course I think a lot of it hinges on the honour system of power limiting limits.
Of course the honour system is more trustworthy in some situations more than others.
First, there's the people involved... The type of race yours is, I think would be likely to attract people who would be more likely to honour an honour system. Some races attract more of the type of people who would be likely to cheat. (That's a rather difficult thing to put into words, but I definitely see a psychology there, that different types of racers are attracted to different types of races.)
And also the type of racing & cars involved may make for more likely there be a temptation for people who might consider cheating. Whereas in other types of races, cheating might be more obvious & therefore less tempting... or maybe cheating wouldn't really help all that much, so it would be less tempting.

Of course I should just say, "gt5 racing is complex"... and that says it all.
I think we're all just looking for ways to make it less complex... and then wind up making it more complex anyway. LOL

 

[TimberW]

we definetly can't stop cheaters from cheating. But one thing I do realise is that, there isn't really much joy by winning through cheating. Especially if you get a growing and maturing club. So far I find players praising each other for their integrity and their attitude. Even when they have lost, usually they'll give in positive comments still.

Of course there are some bumps along the way, but it's each players job to respect one another.

Also, since it's one vs one, it's really a combination of driver skill and car tuning.

A cheater can only gain an advantage through car tuning, but the driver skills will in the end prevail. Maybe at low levels, you'll find cheaters. But at higher level, when you really get a fair and good competition, it just leaves you wanting more of the competition. And if you're a top level player, you won't feel much sense of accomplishment if you cheat your way into winning.

And the respect towards other players sharpens each player as well. A one week later battle I think is good, so they will look forward to next week's match, giving it enough buffering to sort their attitudes out if they do have anything.

 

[diptob79]

I think PD should limit the power restriction.
I remember on GT5 quick tuning, power and weight can't be altered beyond 20%
Now in GT5, we can restrict the power to 50% and that's too much.

So my suggestion, PD should change the limit of restriction to 80% only. To go further, players have to remove some performance parts.

 

[watermelon punch]

I wish everyone felt that way TimberW... Like obviously we do. I agree it feels no accomplishment to me to win by cheating... Or just win over somebody who's not on the same page, or just clueless.
I also don't find easy wins fun at all.

But unfortunately there are a great many players who don't seem to mind getting a win by sneaky methods. It's bizarre. But apparently some people just care about winning no matter how, and it doesn't bother them at all to cheat.

But the more you race with the same people, the less those people will do that, or even want to be involved.
There was that study that showed that cheaters are more likely to cheat with strangers, rather than people they'll likely race again.
So yeah, league racing is the way to go to have less cheating overall.

That said, no, there isn't 100% methods.
And yeah, even a limit on the amount of power limiting you can do would be a step in the right direction.
Or even better, a way to restrict in a race exactly how much percentage, or to allow none at all.

 

[TimberW]

Yes, I think sometimes, allowing the use of some power limiter is better than none at all.

Also, just like any decision making, as the host, you should make the final call. You should take in community input and make considerations with it.

But you have to make sure you are not dictated by the community, cause in the end, you won't be able to please everyone. And also, I realise it's important to get it right first time. Too much changes and going back and forth with the same issue is just not good enough. People just will get frustrated by it. It may be better not to introduce the feature until you can sort it out.

Anyways, enough talking... come join us at LotS, come to the dark side.... come, you know you want to... lol.

 

[Exorcet]

I'll allow that you may be right when referring to PUB LOBBIES & restrictions.
I see what you mean, believe me.

But I'm talking about organized racing.

I gave up on ALL pub lobbies except Shuffle Racing & NASCAR ONLY, almost immediately after trying random pub lobbies.
As far as I can see... racing in pub lobbies 👎 It's problematic from the get-go to the finish line. A complete waste of time for me.

It's also absolutely devoid of any really interesting road car racing I'd be interested in. In pub lobbies, no matter what the room is labeled, it always turns into people bringing super cars or at least the Lotus Elise, or demanding that the PP limit be raised, again & again. That's how it goes.

Those of us who want to race the more unusual cars are unlikely to find anything in pub lobbies.
Because in pub lobbies, people only race the most competitive cars at any given pp... or in any given class for that matter.
People in pub lobbies seem to ignore 80-98% of the cars available in the game!

And that's just my complaints before you even get into the dirty driving tactics issue!!!
And how hard core gamers in pub lobbies know how to exploit the damage system, the penalty system, to their advantage.... etc etc.

It's all about the host. 99% of my racing is public lobbies. I've had stock road car races, Super GT races, NASCAR races. FGT races, low hp races, and many were fairly well organized and clean. Someone even once improvised a championship race in a public lobby with a prize and it went without a hitch.

I already thought of that. And there's still a flaw.

As a host, I'd rather everyone could be 100% sure that *I* am not cheating too.
I wouldn't... but I don't want anyone to have any doubts, especially about the host!!

The host of the room doesn't have to be the one running the race. It could just be a neutral third party, or someone who does the rules check and then leaves.

Again, we're talking about apples & oranges here.

You're talking about free car choice pub lobbies.

I'm talking about organized races with very specific car restrictions. Say, restricting to one class & banning outliers (the turtles & the hares). Or 1-make races (or 2-in-1 make races like the one I'm currently organizing). Or organized races with a very specific list of cars that are allowed.

When you're dealing with this type of racing, there's a lot less to worry about in terms of gearing under the hp/weight scheme, so long as the cars are not at maxed out.

I was talking about everything. With a hp/weight race, nothing is stopping someone from tuning the car and then limiting it, at least with PP they would be penalized for doing that. Although limiting car selection certainly does even out the hp/weight system a little bit.

Then it just becomes a matter of some quick tests with the transmission at the hp/weight limit... some adjustments on the suspension & LSD (that you might even find a set-up in the Tuning Section of the forum - which you can try out to see if it works for you, without ever having to start from scratch). And off you go.

No fussing with seeing what PP the power band is best at. You know what you're in for, you might try adding or taking off parts, but otherwise, it is what it is, and you set your transmission accordingly. Process complete.

You're making it sound like powerband tuning is much more complex than anything else. I don't agree. You could spend a few hundred laps each doing the suspension and transmission. Powerband tuning basically comes down to making your powerband as wide as your gearing is. It will take some time to get right (especially with GT5's horrible powerband and gearing screens) but it's not especially complex compared to other tuning options.

BTW, I hardly ever fiddle with the limiter except to meet the race rules and I'd say I'm a fairly competitive driver most of the time, so for me at least the limiter is not a game breaker, not at all.

I'm not saying that all tuning is cheating.

Fair enough.

But I would rather lose because of poor driving skills, than win because I have some great mechanical advantage trick I know and my opponent doesn't. So in that sense, yeah, I would see it as cheating... If I just win because I have a faster car, because someone couldn't spend an hour tuning & analyzing their power band, because they had to make dinner before the race... seems rather dull & stupid to me.

Why is tuning a trick? It's a skill as much as driving is. If someone wins because of a better tune, they win because they are more skilled at car tuning. It's up to the host/series manager to decide if tuning skill will be part of their race or series (except that anyone can tune suspension in this game even if suspension tuning is banned, and no one would know, so someone can pull a "trick" at any time). I don't think it can be argued that driving skill is more legitimate than tuning skill.

I'm not saying YOU shouldn't tinker with the power band and race in PP races if you enjoy that.

BUT I DO NOT. And I think that should be OKAY too!!!!
Not have some smart remarker tell me "learn gearing"
I don't think you would appreciate it if I told you that you should play the game in only stock cars from the recommended list and stop tuning!!!
So don't tell me I should play your way!
That's my point.

I didn't tell you how to play the game. You said that a lot of torque beats a little horsepower and that's not really true (especially with vague terms like " a lot").

You should NEVER assume your way of playing this game is the right way.
Because believe me, after seeing the NASCAR ALL day series... I realized that "clean" means different things to different people, even on this forum!!!

I never assumed that my way is right, because there is no right way of playing. However I do think that PP is a better system than hp/weight and that the power limiter exploit isn't an exploit at all. ECU tuning is a real thing, and the power limiter is the closest thing we have to it. Until PD gives us actual ECU tuning, I want the power limiter to stay as is.

I would say that's half true.
Only half, because people who spend more time playing, also spend more time tuning.
But of course, that's why I like highly organized hp/weight restriction races, where suspension, LSD, & transmission tuning is allowed.
I'm not so against tuning altogether.

But not complex PP tuning. It just amplifies the times I have to re-enter the track to run another timed lap test...
And I don't want to be studying graphs or making spreadsheets. I just want to set the car up, do a couple of test laps to check, and then race race race!!!!

You can't really say how people spend their time in GT. More playing doesn't equate to more tuning. Some people don't even race and just take photos. And I'm sure that if someone were to enter a race where there was no option to tune, they would spend 100% of their playing time practicing driving.

Like I've said before, I don't feel that PP tuning is anymore complex. The only way to avoid long set ups is to remove adjustable parts from a race. Also you certainly don't need to use graphs and spreadsheets to race in PP races (I certainly don't) Just leave your powerband as is and tune the rest of the car. PP will insure that your car is competitive as long as it's not extremely peaky or extremely flat.